How should proc skills be implemented?

[Zerxen]

I find it a little unfair for proc skills exist based on RNG; it is hard to strategize against because it is all based chance, though I will admit the same could be said for critical hits.

I had this idea where there could be a sort of skill gauge for proc skills like Sol. Every time a unit initiates an attack, they have a chance of  filling in a gauge, equal to their skill stat (a unit with 20 Skill has a 20 percent chance). When the gauge is filled, the unit can activate skills. Not sure if this is great since enemy units most likely will not live long enough to fill in the gauge. In addition, the whole idea is still based on RNG.

[Nobody]

they shouldn't

i'd rather they just didn't exist.

[Magical Glace]

Heroes had the right idea with them, tbh.  The procs in Heroes are 100% predictable, it's great.  And you can only equip one at a time.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Glaceon Mage

[Shadow Mir]

31 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Heroes had the right idea with them, tbh.  The procs in Heroes are 100% predictable, it's great.  And you can only equip one at a time.

I disagree - my main gripe with it is the abuse potential. Well, that, and if they have too much cooldown to ever be relevant.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

I like the Arts system from Echoes a lot more than random procs or even cooldowns, honestly. I hope a tweaked version makes it to FE Switch.

[Interdimensional Observer]

Command skills with turn count cooldowns would be the most reliable and accessible of skill systems. Though throwing procs and HP costing skills into the mix would be fine too, no reason they can't coexist. We could also try skills that consume additional weapon durability, or skills that can only be used before moving.

[Tamanoir]

1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Command skills with turn count cooldowns would be the most reliable and accessible of skill systems. Though throwing procs and HP costing skills into the mix would be fine too, no reason they can't coexist. We could also try skills that consume additional weapon durability, or skills that can only be used before moving.

You know, I think Skills should use it Fates' Weapons system.

For example, you use Astra, and your Attack is halfed until next turn, or you lose 4 SKL/4 ATK in exchange of Luna. Tying skills to the weapons like in Echoes could work as well. 

The debuffs to weapons were to big compared to the cost, and in case of silver Weaponry they quickly stacked and made the suer unuseable. But for 1 time skill, it would work.

[Zerxen]

47 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

I like the Arts system from Echoes a lot more than random procs or even cooldowns, honestly. I hope a tweaked version makes it to FE Switch.

I have yet to play Echoes, could you please elaborate on the Arts system?

 

29 minutes ago, Tamanoir said:

You know, I think Skills should use it Fates' Weapons system.

For example, you use Astra, and your Attack is halfed until next turn, or you lose 4 SKL/4 ATK in exchange of Luna. Tying skills to the weapons like in Echoes could work as well. 

The debuffs to weapons were to big compared to the cost, and in case of silver Weaponry they quickly stacked and made the suer unuseable. But for 1 time skill, it would work.

That actually sounds great. Could provide for some interesting gameplay.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

2 minutes ago, Zerxen said:

I have yet to play Echoes, could you please elaborate on the Arts system?

Basically, by using a weapon a lot, you can unlock Arts specific to that weapon (some weapons/equipment share Arts though). Arts use a bit of HP to activate, and prevent you from doubling, but you gain properties, such as bonus Hit/Might/Crit, a Silence effect on an arrow, increased range, a Brave weapon effect, Astra, etc.

Edited May 25, 2017 by SatsumaFSoysoy

[NekoKnight]

So why are people critical of the RNG factor of Skills when so much of the game is RNG? Hit rate and critical hit rate are RNG too.

I'm not particularly attached to RNG skills so I'd be down for an arts system or having a skill activation gauge.

[Interdimensional Observer]

7 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

So why are people critical of the RNG factor of Skills when so much of the game is RNG? Hit rate and critical hit rate are RNG too.

 

Proc skills generally have such low activation rates that you can't count on them and thus plan with them activating at all in mind. I can much more plan with a 70-80% hit rate in mind than I can with a 20% Luna activation. And rarely do I plan with criticals in mind, they're just the universal proc skill that isn't a skill. Not even with a 50% crit on an accurate and doubling unit do I make life or death strategy decisions around crits (and character death is of course the ultimate arbiter of decision making in non-Casual FE).

RNG is fine in FE, but RNG isn't always lovable/acceptable- Mario Party: Island Tour is all RNG done badly.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Interdimensional Observer