So About Micaiah

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

True, in a video game player perspective means a whole lot. Most people had a whole other game to follow Ike and Elincia and Sanaki. They had half of one game to follow Micaiah. Would the opinions on her be different if RD focused on Micaiah instead of the others? Or if there was a time skip and the others weren't involved at all? Someone (on a different site) mentioned that many people who played PoR first had more of an issue with Micaiah than those who played RD first. I haven't actually done a poll or anything but it's interesting to think about.

 

On a related note, I love her in Heroes. She's so pretty!

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

True, in a video game player perspective means a whole lot. Most people had a whole other game to follow Ike and Elincia and Sanaki. They had half of one game to follow Micaiah. Would the opinions on her be different if RD focused on Micaiah instead of the others? Or if there was a time skip and the others weren't involved at all? Someone (on a different site) mentioned that many people who played PoR first had more of an issue with Micaiah than those who played RD first. I haven't actually done a poll or anything but it's interesting to think about.

It definitely affects the perspective. Anyone that played Path of Radiance would likely end up being fond of Ike, some more than others. So when we anyone that's opposing them, they would be perceived to be in the wrong. Because from our perspective, Ike has only ever done good things and always had good intentions, so he could never do wrong. Or at the very least, he would never willingly do wrong. 

Had we had a real game with Micaiah as the lead, we would have had much more sympathy for her, and wouldn't criticize her so harshly. 

[omegaxis1]

4 minutes ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

On a related note, I love her in Heroes. She's so pretty!

Got her on my first pull.

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

It definitely affects the perspective. Anyone that played Path of Radiance would likely end up being fond of Ike, some more than others. So when we anyone that's opposing them, they would be perceived to be in the wrong. Because from our perspective, Ike has only ever done good things and always had good intentions, so he could never do wrong. Or at the very least, he would never willingly do wrong. 

Had we had a real game with Micaiah as the lead, we would have had much more sympathy for her, and wouldn't criticize her so harshly. 

I believe I've mentioned before how I wish RD had kept the focus on Micaiah while still showing the others and what they were doing. It would satisfy fans on both ends. I mean Ike had the entirety of PoR to develop and Micaiah.... had like part of RD. It's obvious who you're going to support based on that alone if you've played PoR. I didn't realize PoR existed when I played RD so I knew Micaiah first and I appreciate her more every time I play the game..... even if it is obvious that IS shafted her.

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

Got her on my first pull.

Same. She was my free summon. I love her. She wrecks armors and cavs, it's amazing. I think she was a +Res too because it's ridiculous lol.

[omegaxis1]

14 minutes ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

I believe I've mentioned before how I wish RD had kept the focus on Micaiah while still showing the others and what they were doing. It would satisfy fans on both ends. I mean Ike had the entirety of PoR to develop and Micaiah.... had like part of RD. It's obvious who you're going to support based on that alone if you've played PoR. I didn't realize PoR existed when I played RD so I knew Micaiah first and I appreciate her more every time I play the game..... even if it is obvious that IS shafted her.

Not only that, but the writers missed an INCREDIBLE development for Micaiah and Zelgius. From a narrative standpoint, Micaiah and Zelgius actually have a LOT more in common than Ike and Zelgius ever did. Ike and Zelgius only had Greil as their connection, and it all goes to how they want to be great fighters. But Zelgius is more than a fighter. He is a Branded that is scared of true connections with others because of how Branded are persecuted, and how he found solace in that one connection he forged with Sephiran. Micaiah would be able to understand Zelgius' feelings so well because she's a Branded as well. 

There could have been so much development, and mind you, they could have actually had a possible romance case happen. But nope, in the end, Zelgius only helped a few times, but in the end, he just went right back to wanting to fight Ike because Greil. 

18 minutes ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

Same. She was my free summon. I love her. She wrecks armors and cavs, it's amazing. I think she was a +Res too because it's ridiculous lol.

She was actually my last summon. Had 4 Red and 1 Blue. So I saved her for last. She's -RES/+DEF, but since her RES gets a 3 point boost by her tome, she's covered. XD

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Not only that, but the writers missed an INCREDIBLE development for Micaiah and Zelgius. From a narrative standpoint, Micaiah and Zelgius actually have a LOT more in common than Ike and Zelgius ever did. Ike and Zelgius only had Greil as their connection, and it all goes to how they want to be great fighters. But Zelgius is more than a fighter. He is a Branded that is scared of true connections with others because of how Branded are persecuted, and how he found solace in that one connection he forged with Sephiran. Micaiah would be able to understand Zelgius' feelings so well because she's a Branded as well. 

There could have been so much development, and mind you, they could have actually had a possible romance case happen. But nope, in the end, Zelgius only helped a few times, but in the end, he just went right back to wanting to fight Ike because Greil. 

She was actually my last summon. Had 4 Red and 1 Blue. So I saved her for last. She's -RES/+DEF, but since her RES gets a 3 point boost by her tome, she's covered. XD

That's very true but they really dropped the ball on Zelgius to begin with. He could have been one of the best characters in the game (alongside Micaiah and Pelleas) if they had just focused a little more instead of spreading the game out so much. Don't get me wrong, it was a cool concept but it would have worked way better in a different game. They spread themselves too thin and most everyone in the game suffered for it. But I definitely agree that Micaiah and Zelgius could have had a very interesting relationship if they had gone that way.... though to be fair he might be way older than her? I'm not sure, Branded timelines and ages confuse me lol. I do not like her paired ending with Sothe though. Just no.

I got Zelgius but Sothe has avoided me :( Micaiah though...... she is my new baby. Sorry Ike xD And I boosted her Res even farther with supports so magic just.... does nothing to her. It's GREAT. Cav mages were on my last nerves but no longer!

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

That's very true but they really dropped the ball on Zelgius to begin with. He could have been one of the best characters in the game (alongside Micaiah and Pelleas) if they had just focused a little more instead of spreading the game out so much. Don't get me wrong, it was a cool concept but it would have worked way better in a different game. They spread themselves too thin and most everyone in the game suffered for it. But I definitely agree that Micaiah and Zelgius could have had a very interesting relationship if they had gone that way.... though to be fair he might be way older than her? I'm not sure, Branded timelines and ages confuse me lol. I do not like her paired ending with Sothe though. Just no.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a huge fan of childhood friends becoming romantic, but there are just some issues. Especially since in Heroes, Micaiah literally refers to Sothe as her brother, even if she avoided using his name. They mean a lot, but they never seemed to ever mention having romantic feelings with one another, just how they are important to one another. It makes their paired ending a bit too forced. As for Zelgius likely being older, I believe when the Branded effect of making someone stop aging takes effect, the concept of age gap loses all meaning at that point. So they could still have had some romantic air. 

Plus, it would show much more of Zelgius' human side. It was okay how it was with Sephiran, but it was only done at like the endgame. 

5 minutes ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

I got Zelgius but Sothe has avoided me :( Micaiah though...... she is my new baby. Sorry Ike xD And I boosted her Res even farther with supports so magic just.... does nothing to her. It's GREAT. Cav mages were on my last nerves but no longer!

I won't go for this banner anymore now that I have Micaiah. I want to save my orbs, and both Zelgius and Sothe are non-seasonal units, so there's always the chance they'll show up again, and maybe even get from a random pull. XP

Plus, out of those 4 orbs, I got a 5* Seth and Ayra out of it.

[Interdimensional Observer]

6 hours ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

t. But I definitely agree that Micaiah and Zelgius could have had a very interesting relationship if they had gone that way.... though to be fair he might be way older than her? I'm not sure, Branded timelines and ages confuse me lol. I do not like her paired ending with Sothe though. Just no.

Agreed on the dislike of SothexMicaiah. Just because they're very close and look like they're roughly the same age, IS felt they had to give them a paired ending, which happens even if you delete their auto A Support. Yet this contradicts all the writing IS did of the Micaiah-Sothe relationship prior to the paired ending. Micaiah starts as a big sister possibly even mother figure, by virtue of the Branded nature of Micaiah they become "siblings" of roughly the same age. In PoR, Sothe tells Tormod in their A Support he has someone who is like what Muarim is to Tormod, reinforced by the talk Micaiah and Muarim have together in RD. Last time I checked, no IS isn't shipping TormodxMuarim.

I like the idea of M&S's love being platonic, since how many other cases of close opposite sex individuals end that way in FE? 

As for Micaiah's age, I deduced this in another topic:

 

Lekain says in the desert chapter Sanaki's older sister was assassinated at the same time as Misaha by the "Herons" aka Senate and he is barely hiding it. We don't know how old Micaiah was at the time, but since she doesn't remember the event, she must have been a baby. 0 years to 4 tops I guess. Given Sanaki was born in ~636 if we turn back the clock on her age, and then look at the assassination as happening in 625, that means Micaiah would be ~11-15 years older than her.

 

So Micaiah is probably somewhere between 24 and 28. This would make her the oldest lord in FE coincidentally.

 

Zelgius? Well unfortunately, the mechanics of Branded aging are never completely explained. But what we do know is that Zelgius says he serves in Daein under General Gawain in his Sephiran's memory scene. Gawain abruptly left Daein in 626, so for Zelgius to be speaking as he does, it has to be before then. Sephiran says he "has a mission to accomplish" in the flashback, which implies he has already leaped off the deep end, which only happened because Misaha died and the Serenes Massacre happened, both in 625. Ergo Zelgius must have been recruited within a very narrow timeframe, between 625 post-Massacre & Assassination, and pre-Gawain departure in 626.

But this doesn't tell us how old Zelgius is exactly! But interestingly, when I glimpsed over the Extended Script, where the English says some years ago he noticed he was aging slower, the Extended Script translated from the Japanese says 5 years ago. I don't have the Japanese at hand, so I don't know if the translator just assigned a number to the "some" or whether it literally says 5 in the Japanese. But if we take him at his word of ~5 years ago, we might have something to work on. Now the Recollection artbooks assign different lifespans to different types of Branded (Dragon living longer than Tiger), but let us ignore this and assume they slow aging at roughly the same point. Soren says in his Stefan A Support from PoR he noticed that he stopped aging normally around 3 years ago.

Now we need to trace Soren's age. He says he was about 4 when the old woman who raised him handed him to the old sage, who died two years later, so about 6. This sage's death would have to be in the same year as Ike and Mist leaving Gallia due to Elena's accidental death. Next, we have Almedha, who says to Elincia in 4-2 that the last time she saw Ashnard was over twenty years ago. If we say literally 20 years, then that would mean the last time they saw each other was in ~629, since PoR begins in 645, ends a year later and RD is three years after that, we'd be looking at 629. So if we assume Ashnard discarded Almedha immediately after she gave birth and he saw nothing special in their child, then 629 is the year of Soren's birth. So him to be 6 when the old sage died, would be to give Elena's death a year of 635.

The Elena's death part probably wasn't relevant, but I wanted that step. Now this would put Soren at ~16 in PoR. So for him to notice his aging was slowing 3 years ago would mean when he was ~13. If Zelgius was just as perceptive as Soren about the aging and also noticed it at ~13, then ~5 years later would put him at ~18 when he speaks to Sephiran. So fast forward to RD in 649, which is 23 years later if Zelgius was recruited in 626. ~18 + 23 = 41. Zelgius is ~41!

This would put a ~17-21 year age gap between Micaiah and Zelgius. More than a decade, possibly two, separating them. But I wouldn't consider this a societal problem that makes me go "yick" really, since both are mature adults that look great and Micaiah isn't a gold digger. Them as a couple I would wholly accept, partly because I like the idea of Micaiah and her Knight in Shining (Black) Armor, besides being united by a Brand and Sephiran.

 

Of course, Zelgius never gets to meet with Micaiah as Zelgius, nor Sephiran ever meet with Micaiah until the Tower. Ike on the other hand met with Sephiran twice in PoR, and RD gave him the sealed memories connection, which partly explains (the rest being Micaiah's shoving aside in the Tower) why he in practice got more time with Sephiran and Zelgius in the Tower, he knew them better, had animosity and whatnot.

 

I feel like one of those Bible overanalyzers from centuries ago. Reading every little scrap of text in all the books to determine the exact age of the universe, or figure out some prophecy, or other ridiculous things. Someone better reward me for this.

 

Edit: I miscalculated Zelgius's age by putting ~13 in my calculations when I should have put ~18. Doesn't alter the essence of things though.

Edited January 14, 2018 by Interdimensional Observer

[omegaxis1]

8 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Agreed on the dislike of SothexMicaiah. Just because they're very close and look like they're roughly the same age, IS felt they had to give them a paired ending, which happens even if you delete their auto A Support. Yet this contradicts all the writing IS did of the Micaiah-Sothe relationship prior to the paired ending. Micaiah starts as a big sister possibly even mother figure, by virtue of the Branded nature of Micaiah they become "siblings" of roughly the same age. In PoR, Sothe tells Tormod in their A Support he has someone who is like what Muarim is to Tormod, reinforced by the talk Micaiah and Muarim have together in RD. Last time I checked, no IS isn't shipping TormodxMuarim.

I like the idea of M&S's love being platonic, since how many other cases of close opposite sex individuals end that way in FE? 

You know, this would have been avoided had Sothe or Micaiah ever mentioned of seeing the other as a romantic way at least once. But they continuously mention that they care deeply for one another. But that's as far as they go. No one even goes that much in asking if they love one another. Yune comes close maybe, but that's it. But they don't. 

10 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

This would put a ~12-16 year age gap between Micaiah and Zelgius. More than a decade, possibly a decade and a half, separating them. But I wouldn't consider this a societal problem that makes me go "yick" really, since both are mature adults that look great and Micaiah isn't a gold digger. Them as a couple I would wholly accept, partly because I like the idea of Micaiah and her Knight in Shining (Black) Armor, besides being united by a Brand and Sephiran.

Like I said, I think for Branded, the case of age gap really loses its merit. But yeah, Micaiah and Zelgius feels like they would have had far more chemistry than Sothe and Micaiah had shown, since Micaiah and Zelgius would have understood one another on a more emotional level given their status as Branded.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

Like I said, I think for Branded, the case of age gap really loses its merit. But yeah, Micaiah and Zelgius feels like they would have had far more chemistry than Sothe and Micaiah had shown, since Micaiah and Zelgius would have understood one another on a more emotional level given their status as Branded.

If anything, there will be an age gap issue with MicaiahxSothe. Since Sothe will age faster than Micaiah, and possibly go from being her son to brother to father visually.

There is a reason why in my random silly fanfictional writings one day I wrote that the marriage was ultimately sexless and became miserable, yet unable to end in divorce since it would give off the impression to the outside world they disliked each other when that wasn't the case at all- they love each other, they just didn't love each other that way, and their marriage was simply them going through with societal expectations. Plus by the time Sothe and Micaiah have the courage to muster the truth to each other of the marriage's problems, they're past the young age when they could learn to date and how to romance.

3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

You know, this would have been avoided had Sothe or Micaiah ever mentioned of seeing the other as a romantic way at least once. But they continuously mention that they care deeply for one another. But that's as far as they go. No one even goes that much in asking if they love one another. Yune comes close maybe, but that's it. But they don't. 

True.

Interestingly Micaiah in the Japanese but not the English says Sothe's promoted outfit looks good on him. Which would mean she likes him in an actual bellyshirt (his Rogue outfit is just his PoR Thief one he has outgrown but continues to wear out of thrift/being slummy).

Translated Extended Script:

Micaiah:
“It really suits you. This costume.”

Sothe:
“Are you sure…?”

Micaiah:
“Mmm-hmm.”

[omegaxis1]

5 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

If anything, there will be an age gap issue with MicaiahxSothe. Since Sothe will age faster than Micaiah, and possibly go from being her son to brother to father visually.

There is a reason why in my random silly fanfictional writings one day I wrote that the marriage was ultimately sexless and became miserable, yet unable to end in divorce since it would give off the impression to the outside world they disliked each other when that wasn't the case at all- they love each other, they just didn't love each other that way, and their marriage was simply them going through with societal expectations. Plus by the time Sothe and Micaiah have the courage to muster the truth to each other of the marriage's problems, they're past the young age when they could learn to date and how to romance.

That would be funny and realistic. But that is a good point Sothe will age while MIcaiah remains the same for a while. That will cause issues no doubt, but I think they'll manage... maybe.

8 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

True.

Interestingly Micaiah in the Japanese but not the English says Sothe's promoted outfit looks good on him. Which would mean she likes him in an actual bellyshirt (his Rogue outfit is just his PoR Thief one he has outgrown but continues to wear out of thrift/being slummy).

Translated Extended Script:

Micaiah:
“It really suits you. This costume.”

Sothe:
“Are you sure…?”

Micaiah:
“Mmm-hmm.”

Now see, this sounds like she actually would feel attracted to him. Or she's just teasing him. But if it is for real, it means that she would have feelings for him. Had we had more of that, then we'd be good.

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

It's the first RD banner so I had to summon on it lol. I'm happy with Zelgius and ecstatic with Micaiah but I wanted Sothe since I have like... 3 colorless 5 stars xD

23 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Agreed on the dislike of SothexMicaiah. Just because they're very close and look like they're roughly the same age, IS felt they had to give them a paired ending, which happens even if you delete their auto A Support. Yet this contradicts all the writing IS did of the Micaiah-Sothe relationship prior to the paired ending. Micaiah starts as a big sister possibly even mother figure, by virtue of the Branded nature of Micaiah they become "siblings" of roughly the same age. In PoR, Sothe tells Tormod in their A Support he has someone who is like what Muarim is to Tormod, reinforced by the talk Micaiah and Muarim have together in RD. Last time I checked, no IS isn't shipping TormodxMuarim.

I like the idea of M&S's love being platonic, since how many other cases of close opposite sex individuals end that way in FE? 

As for Micaiah's age, I deduced this in another topic:

*this is incredibly long so I hope you don't mind me cutting it down a bit*

That is a lot of math and you deserve a cookie. Still I don't like huge age gaps but I guess if you both have incredibly long life spans that it's less of an issue. I heard that some people ship Micaiah and Soren for the reason of "they'll be able to be together longer" which is sorta... odd..... But who am I to say anything, I lowkey ship Micaiah and Ike xD

Still the writing as a whole in RD was... lackluster, no matter how much I love the game and I feel like they could have done so much more with Micaiah and Sephiran and Zelgius. Honestly though as I replay the game I do get what you mean about her knight in shining black armor. It has the potential to be a ship I could really get behind. As for Micaiah and Sothe it seems like every turn they're reinforcing that their love is like that between siblings, even in Heroes! (To be fair they also retconned Yune's pronunciation so...) but either way it just makes their paired ending...... weird.

23 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

That would be funny and realistic. But that is a good point Sothe will age while MIcaiah remains the same for a while. That will cause issues no doubt, but I think they'll manage... maybe.

Now see, this sounds like she actually would feel attracted to him. Or she's just teasing him. But if it is for real, it means that she would have feelings for him. Had we had more of that, then we'd be good.

There is not enough Micaiah fic out there and I'm not confident enough in my ability to write more xD My biggest issue is that through the whole game nothing they did could be interpreted as anything more than siblings (and even that snippet could be seen as platonic or reassuring instead of romantic but... semantics. Still a belly shirt xD). I think that's a big reason why people tend to ship Micaiah and Pelleas or... Micaiah and anyone that isn't Sothe.

[omegaxis1]

2 minutes ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

It's the first RD banner so I had to summon on it lol. I'm happy with Zelgius and ecstatic with Micaiah but I wanted Sothe since I have like... 3 colorless 5 stars xD

That is a lot of math and you deserve a cookie. Still I don't like huge age gaps but I guess if you both have incredibly long life spans that it's less of an issue. I heard that some people ship Micaiah and Soren for the reason of "they'll be able to be together longer" which is sorta... odd..... But who am I to say anything, I lowkey ship Micaiah and Ike xD

Still the writing as a whole in RD was... lackluster, no matter how much I love the game and I feel like they could have done so much more with Micaiah and Sephiran and Zelgius. Honestly though as I replay the game I do get what you mean about her knight in shining black armor. It has the potential to be a ship I could really get behind. As for Micaiah and Sothe it seems like every turn they're reinforcing that their love is like that between siblings, even in Heroes! (To be fair they also retconned Yune's pronunciation so...) but either way it just makes their paired ending...... weird.

There is not enough Micaiah fic out there and I'm not confident enough in my ability to write more xD My biggest issue is that through the whole game nothing they did could be interpreted as anything more than siblings (and even that snippet could be seen as platonic or reassuring instead of romantic but... semantics. Still a belly shirt xD). I think that's a big reason why people tend to ship Micaiah and Pelleas or... Micaiah and anyone that isn't Sothe.

Yeah, RD really did fail in some regards. However, I think that RD still did some things right. PoR is how Elincia retook her kingdom and became Queen, and now we see how she is handling the position of Queen. And how she is acting in the war that earned the respect of the taguel and Zelgius. But Micaiah needed more than just two parts, as the first part was just establishing her character rather than develop it, and then Part 3 had her go downhill, and part 4 was just her getting hijacked. 

Sothe and Micaiah is weird and I get why people don't like it. It feels too forced. The entire time, we see them being more sibling than lovers. Very little romantic vibes were shown, which just ruins their ending more.

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

Yeah, RD really did fail in some regards. However, I think that RD still did some things right. PoR is how Elincia retook her kingdom and became Queen, and now we see how she is handling the position of Queen. And how she is acting in the war that earned the respect of the taguel and Zelgius. But Micaiah needed more than just two parts, as the first part was just establishing her character rather than develop it, and then Part 3 had her go downhill, and part 4 was just her getting hijacked. 

Sothe and Micaiah is weird and I get why people don't like it. It feels too forced. The entire time, we see them being more sibling than lovers. Very little romantic vibes were shown, which just ruins their ending more.

Oh it definitely did some things very well. Like the scale of the game was great. It really felt like you were participating in a war, which... many of their games failed at. And as much as I talk about what's not good it's still my favorite for a reason. Now, as well written as Elincia's part was it was.... let's be honest, it was wholly not needed and would have been better if it had actually tied into the rest of the game. I get why they included it and it was great but... replaying the game like I have it just feels more and more out of place in the grand scheme of things. Micaiah just... really got shafted and it makes me so sad because she had the potential to be one of the best characters FE has ever produced (in my humble opinion).

Sothe and Micaiah is.... just no. They should've stuck to siblings and let it go. Honestly I don't like that she has to become Queen of Daein either since she always seemed more the "help people from among the people" type. Which really makes a paired ending with Zelgius make even more sense.....

[omegaxis1]

5 minutes ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

Oh it definitely did some things very well. Like the scale of the game was great. It really felt like you were participating in a war, which... many of their games failed at. And as much as I talk about what's not good it's still my favorite for a reason. Now, as well written as Elincia's part was it was.... let's be honest, it was wholly not needed and would have been better if it had actually tied into the rest of the game. I get why they included it and it was great but... replaying the game like I have it just feels more and more out of place in the grand scheme of things. Micaiah just... really got shafted and it makes me so sad because she had the potential to be one of the best characters FE has ever produced (in my humble opinion).

You are correct. Thinking on it, Elincia's story in fact did nothing to the actual narrative. I would actually consider her story to work better as DLC maybe, or Gaiden chapters. And it just ends with the Greil Mercenaries showing up to save the day. We actually could have had more chance to develop Micaiah here. Actually, she should have been the main character the entire way through. Stupid of them not to do that. 

6 minutes ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

Sothe and Micaiah is.... just no. They should've stuck to siblings and let it go. Honestly I don't like that she has to become Queen of Daein either since she always seemed more the "help people from among the people" type. Which really makes a paired ending with Zelgius make even more sense.....

I'd have accepted it if they showed evidence of romance. But there were very few, if any. Most of the time, they are close siblings and such. So yeah, it does feel like Zelgius and Micaiah would work much better, so its a damn shame that they never got the chance they deserved. This part can be blamed on Ike because he took Zelgius' attention away in the end.

[Interdimensional Observer]

2 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

This part can be blamed on Ike because he took Zelgius' attention away in the end.

Yeah, Micaiah doesn't even get a chance to say "Hey break it up you two! Ike, do you really have to do this? Zelgius, do you really need to do this?". She'd be forced aside even if she did that, two men in the heat of battle aren't exactly stoppable. But if Sephiran got a chance to live, Ike seeing Micaiah's care for Zelgius and thus letting him live their debts settled, wouldn't be impossible. Of course this would require a willingness on Zelgius's part to defy Sephiran, and would he? Well given Micaiah is his master's descendant, maybe.

And then there was this line the English version forgot to insert, but had actually translated:

Yune:
“Micaiah. You’re sad, too, aren’t you? That knight treated you warmly. You wished that he could have stayed by your side.”

2 hours ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

Now, as well written as Elincia's part was it was.... let's be honest, it was wholly not needed and would have been better if it had actually tied into the rest of the game. I get why they included it and it was great but... replaying the game like I have it just feels more and more out of place in the grand scheme of things.

Well they tried to fit her in with Valtome's passing through Crimea, and then making her co-leader of the Hawk Army. But yeah, it was an unnecessary thing to do, and the Hawk Army is rather superfluous, even if I found it the most enjoyable of the three Armies.

Although they needed to include Elincia in some way if they wanted a world-spanning conflict, you can't leave out Crimea. PoR cast her only as a damsel whose kingdom needs rescuing, which might have left the writers at loss as to how to portray her in RD since they never had to show Nyna or Guinevere as a monarch. So lacking any real development in PoR, the writers ended up giving it to her in RD so she could come off as a competent ruler. Thankfully they went that way instead of making her flounder in everything and needing Geoffrey/Bastian/Ike to do anything.

I'd add that Part 2 does serve to pivot from P1 to P3, and allows for a passing of time to occur so the two parts don't happen right after each other. But this is a thin excuse for Part 2's existence.

Some people do love Elincia and Part 2 to the point they wish she'd gotten more. Some of said people wish Micaiah too had gotten more, and ultimately Ike should have been kicked to the curb and tossed in a ditch. But Sephiran muses at the end of PoR Ike's journey wasn't over, and this I take as inviolable truth Ike had to return and was planned to in some significant role. And I'm no Ike lover.

Therefore, the best idea would be to split RD into 3 games. A full game of Micaiah liberating Daein, a short story download only game on Elincia's civil war, and Parts 3 and 4 as their own final game. Of course, like FE would ever have the budget and resources to do this? Particularly pre-Awakening.

 

2 hours ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

Honestly I don't like that she has to become Queen of Daein either since she always seemed more the "help people from among the people" type. Which really makes a paired ending with Zelgius make even more sense.....

Well on the one hand, all Beorc countries are ruled by women at the end of RD. Plus, Pelleas stepping down if he lived wasn't a terrible idea, since he knew his claim to the throne- being Ashnard's son- was false, and he was a terrible king for having made the Blood Pact and admitted that kingship wasn't for him. Sure he could have stayed on and tried to improve, but sometimes its better to quit while you're ahead.

Without Pelleas, what would become of Daein? Tauroneo is a likely no and lacks heirs (well he has a son, but the wife took him away b/c Daddy was too harsh with him). And the idea of suddenly swapping to a republic, which IS pulled with Grado in SS at the end, would be out of place in a well built world like Tellius. Micaiah was the one individual all of Daein loved, and even as a general she effectively undermined Pelleas's authority to some measure. Putting a random nobody on the throne would seem weird too, since why didn't they ever show up before in the plot if they were capable of being considered for the throne? 

It just seems hard to imagine how they could have handled this differently.

 

2 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

You are correct. Thinking on it, Elincia's story in fact did nothing to the actual narrative. I would actually consider her story to work better as DLC maybe, or Gaiden chapters. And it just ends with the Greil Mercenaries showing up to save the day.

The GMs showing up at the end does little to detract from Part 2. Ultimately Elincia experiences Part 2 without knowing the GMs were there for her and made the most crucial decision- letting Lucia die- thinking she would die and thus showing she wasn't naive any longer.

 

2 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

and then Part 3 had her go downhill

I wouldn't say downhill exactly. Her struggling caught in an awful political and military situation is rare for an FE lord. I like her struggle, for while it doesn't quite develop her since we never get to see her changed in away way, it is nonetheless an overcoming, or attempted overcoming rather, of adversity.

 

2 hours ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

I think that's a big reason why people tend to ship Micaiah and Pelleas

I could see it working. A bit mellow, and Micaiah's reverence for Pelleas is from him being king and working hard at being a king, but they'd have a basis for something more.

If RD had actual supports, well Nolan is a bit too old for Micaiah visually. But Edward, I could see that as being cute. Leonardo would be eh from what little we get, but who knows if they'd actually have chemistry- I could see the potential for them to be quite good together.

 

2 hours ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

Still the writing as a whole in RD was... lackluster, no matter how much I love the game and I feel like they could have done so much more with Micaiah and Sephiran and Zelgius.

If we extended Part 1, I could see Sephiran sneaking a visit into Daein to survey the situation before Tormod's appearance, and then a later visit towards the end of the game to show the Apostle's support for defeating the Begnion Occupation Army. The player would know what Sephiran looked like, but whether Sothe, Zihark, Tauroneo, Jill, and Ilyana laid eyes on him in PoR isn't certain, a quick name and costume change could help as well.

Zelgius, well he could appear, but never should he appear in the gameplay if the BK were also to appear in the gameplay. Since that would have the obvious potential to give away them being one and the same. I'd make the BK's appearance a little more phantasm like in such an approach, he comes and goes like a ghost, not actually lingering for very long whenever he shows up. And he'd toy with the idea he is a ghost a little, a ghost returned to see to Daein's liberation.

 

2 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

And how she is acting in the war that earned the respect of the taguel and Zelgius.

How dare you insult the Laguz with a term worse than sub-human and half-breed combined! Bunnies who got too close to a nuclear reactor are the embarrassment of the shapeshifter community. Even Lyre and the Kitsune spit in their carrot soup and deserve at least ten times the respect.

[omegaxis1]

21 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Yeah, Micaiah doesn't even get a chance to say "Hey break it up you two! Ike, do you really have to do this? Zelgius, do you really need to do this?". She'd be forced aside even if she did that, two men in the heat of battle aren't exactly stoppable. But if Sephiran got a chance to live, Ike seeing Micaiah's care for Zelgius and thus letting him live their debts settled, wouldn't be impossible. Of course this would require a willingness on Zelgius's part to defy Sephiran, and would he? Well given Micaiah is his master's descendant, maybe.

And then there was this line the English version forgot to insert, but had actually translated:

Yune:
“Micaiah. You’re sad, too, aren’t you? That knight treated you warmly. You wished that he could have stayed by your side.”

Had Zelgius had more interaction with Micaiah, there might have even been a thing where Micaiah tries to stop Zelgius from getting killed, similar to how Palleus avoided getting killed. And if they formed a romantic connection, Zelgius might have actually considered defying Sephiran's orders. Or maybe he doesn't join them, but he won't fight Sephiran either. But its when Sephiran joins to fight Ashera, Zelgius also joins too.

29 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The GMs showing up at the end does little to detract from Part 2. Ultimately Elincia experiences Part 2 without knowing the GMs were there for her and made the most crucial decision- letting Lucia die- thinking she would die and thus showing she wasn't naive any longer.

No, I get how the development was. It was great. But exactly what did Part 2 have anything to do with the actual story in Radiant Dawn?

Part 1 was about Micaiah getting independence from Begnion for Daein, which resulted in the blood contract. 

31 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I wouldn't say downhill exactly. Her struggling caught in an awful political and military situation is rare for an FE lord. I like her struggle, for while it doesn't quite develop her since we never get to see her changed in away way, it is nonetheless an overcoming, or attempted overcoming rather, of adversity.

Yeah, she did struggle, and how she was stuck in an impossible situation. But it was this part that really sent Micaiah's image down the drain, as many people harshly criticize her character and think that she's bad.

36 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

How dare you insult the Laguz with a term worse than sub-human and half-breed combined! Bunnies who got too close to a nuclear reactor are the embarrassment of the shapeshifter community. Even Lyre and the Kitsune spit in their carrot soup and deserve at least ten times the respect.

My bad. XD

But hey, I like Awakening, and though I do think the taguel should have an explanation made, I like Panne as a character. 

[Icelerate]

44 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I wouldn't say downhill exactly. Her struggling caught in an awful political and military situation is rare for an FE lord. I like her struggle, for while it doesn't quite develop her since we never get to see her changed in away way, it is nonetheless an overcoming, or attempted overcoming rather, of adversity.

 

Part 3 does in fact develop Micaiah's character a lot. Remember how Skrimir didn't like military tactics in the slightest but realizes those are necessary? That is an example of character development. Similarly, coming to terms with the fact that ruthless military tactics are sometimes necessary is character development for Micaiah. Also, whether to sacrifice Pelleas or not is similar to Elincia's moment with Lucia and everyone acknowledges that as character development. Then there is the fact that in part one, a strong motivation for Micaiah was that she was fond of people happy with her heroism. Come part 3 and people are no longer so fond of her but she has to come to terms with it and let it be. 

[Dark Holy Elf]

On 1/13/2018 at 4:47 PM, Interdimensional Observer said:

If anything, there will be an age gap issue with MicaiahxSothe. Since Sothe will age faster than Micaiah, and possibly go from being her son to brother to father visually.

There is a reason why in my random silly fanfictional writings one day I wrote that the marriage was ultimately sexless and became miserable,

That seems incredibly harsh to me. So what if one of them ages faster than the other? If my wife were to age faster or slower than me it wouldn't change how I felt about her. The visual changes are gradual and, in the grand scheme of things, irrelevant to one's feelings. Sure, Micaiah will most likely have to deal with Sothe dying when she has several decades (at least) of life left, but that's a problem that anyone who marries someone far older than themselves expects to deal with in real life, too.

I'm a bit surprised that people read Sothe/Micaiah as siblings. I always thought they were a romantic couple, though in that usual Japanese video game way they aren't very open about it. Micaiah's "father of Sothe's children" line (which is brilliant) has slightly-jealous-lover written all over it to me. But I enjoyed their dynamic quite well due to that! I love seeing characters in established relationships since they seem so rare in video games.

[Lost Impact]

I really enjoyed reading through this thread (new member).

I disliked Micaiah at first, but she really grew on me over time. I agree that Ike took away too many moments from her, she had so much missed potential (as did many characters in this game).

I'm also a huge fan of Micaiah x Zelgius, it's my Fire Emblem OTP. There was quite a bit of ship-teasing in their battle conversations (Micaiah asking him whether he was staying in Daein, etc). I also liked the conversation with Sothe, there was a lot of missed potential there. There should have been a paired ending for them in my opinion, and the option to keep him alive. I mean, if Sephiran gets a second chance so should he. Maybe for a remake.

As for having Zelgius and the Black Knight both playable, that would be easy to fix, just change the animations and alter the stats a bit. Even if they couldn't do that, the animations for Zelgius/Black Knight are the same in cutscenes so it was really obvious anyway.

As for Micaiah becoming the Queen of Daein, maybe they could have altered the ending so Soren finds out he's the true heir? Micaiah becoming Queen is odd and doesn't fit her character, in game she states that she doesn't like being in the castle and would much rather help with reconstruction. I can't stand the Micaiah and Sothe pairing either, it felt forced and out of nowhere. Always felt like a parent and child or brother and sister relationship to me. Especially considering Micaiah raised him. Not exactly childhood friends.

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

24 minutes ago, Lost Impact said:

I really enjoyed reading through this thread (new member).

I disliked Micaiah at first, but she really grew on me over time. I agree that Ike took away too many moments from her, she had so much missed potential (as did many characters in this game).

I'm also a huge fan of Micaiah x Zelgius, it's my Fire Emblem OTP. There was quite a bit of ship-teasing in their battle conversations (Micaiah asking him whether he was staying in Daein, etc). I also liked the conversation with Sothe, there was a lot of missed potential there. There should have been a paired ending for them in my opinion, and the option to keep him alive. I mean, if Sephiran gets a second chance so should he. Maybe for a remake.

As for having Zelgius and the Black Knight both playable, that would be easy to fix, just change the animations and alter the stats a bit. Even if they couldn't do that, the animations for Zelgius/Black Knight are the same in cutscenes so it was really obvious anyway.

As for Micaiah becoming the Queen of Daein, maybe they could have altered the ending so Soren finds out he's the true heir? Micaiah becoming Queen is odd and doesn't fit her character, in game she states that she doesn't like being in the castle and would much rather help with reconstruction. I can't stand the Micaiah and Sothe pairing either, it felt forced and out of nowhere. Always felt like a parent and child or brother and sister relationship to me. Especially considering Micaiah raised him. Not exactly childhood friends.

I'm so glad you enjoyed it, I've been enjoying it too! Also welcome to Serenes! I'm fairly new myself but had tons to get off my chest, ergo the blowing up of the RD thread by me xD

I really enjoyed Micaiah from the moment I started the game. Of course I was young and sorta sucked at it at first... haha xD But I'm hoping if they do a remake that they focus more on Micaiah's side than Ike's.

A lot of people really seem to like Micaiah x Zelgius and I definitely get that. He's a protector to her that she didn't raise which gets rid of that general "ick" feeling many get from Micaiah x Sothe. I get Micaiah x Pelleas too. Though I wish Pelleas had an arc where he became a stronger ruler to allow Micaiah to do as she wants because I've always thought her becoming Queen was... odd. I don't think Soren would take the throne in any circumstance.

I'm one of the few people that like the conversations Micaiah and Ike had and thought they could've done so much more with that than they did. Ike x Micaiah is one of my very few crack ships and it makes me sad that no one else seems to like them xD But it is a crack ship so I get it.

[Icelerate]

I found it amusing that Sothe is frustrated at the Black Knight because he'd rather be the one to protect Micaiah, not the Black Knight. It sounds like Sothe is jealous and is afraid that the Black Knight will steal his girl away. 

Spoiler

Sothe and Black Knight

Sothe: …
Black Knight: …
Sothe: …What do you want?
Black Knight: …
Sothe: Why are you trying to get close to Micaiah?
Black Knight: So that I might protect her.
Sothe: I protect her!
Black Knight: As things stand, I simply cannot entrust her safety to you.
Sothe: What is that supposed to mean?
Black Knight: If you hope to protect her, become stronger. Strong enough to surpass me, and stronger still.
Sothe: What? What could he mean…

 

[omegaxis1]

5 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

I found it amusing that Sothe is frustrated at the Black Knight because he'd rather be the one to protect Micaiah, not the Black Knight. It sounds like Sothe is jealous and is afraid that the Black Knight will steal his girl away. 

  Hide contents

Sothe and Black Knight

Sothe: …
Black Knight: …
Sothe: …What do you want?
Black Knight: …
Sothe: Why are you trying to get close to Micaiah?
Black Knight: So that I might protect her.
Sothe: I protect her!
Black Knight: As things stand, I simply cannot entrust her safety to you.
Sothe: What is that supposed to mean?
Black Knight: If you hope to protect her, become stronger. Strong enough to surpass me, and stronger still.
Sothe: What? What could he mean…

 

It does sound a bit like jealousy. XD

[Icelerate]

2 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

It does sound a bit like jealousy. XD

Adding on, Sothe's reaction to Volug showing up to protect her annoys him as Micaiah will have another pet. 

Spoiler

Micaiah:
“Volug! Lady Nailah… Did she send you back to guard me, Volug?”

Sothe:
“Ridiculous… As if you didn’t already have that annoying bird… Ouch! Ow! Ow ow ow! I take it back!”

Micaiah:
“Sothe, we freed our country from tyranny together. But it’s not over yet. We’ll have to work hard for a long time to return Daein to its former grandeur. I know it won’t be easy, but if I have you two with me, I know we can do it.”

 

 

That can be interpreted as jealousy because Micaiah called him out on him being jealous of Micaiah's relationship with her bird so the same should apply with Volug, even more so because he's actually a person, much like the Black Knight. 

Spoiler

Micaiah:
“Yune? Yune, where are you? You can come out now!”

Sothe:
“You and that bird. It’s…a little strange.”

Micaiah:
“You’re just jealous. Wait, I hear something.”

 

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

7 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Adding on, Sothe's reaction to Volug showing up to protect her annoys him as Micaiah will have another pet. 

  Hide contents

Micaiah:
“Volug! Lady Nailah… Did she send you back to guard me, Volug?”

Sothe:
“Ridiculous… As if you didn’t already have that annoying bird… Ouch! Ow! Ow ow ow! I take it back!”

Micaiah:
“Sothe, we freed our country from tyranny together. But it’s not over yet. We’ll have to work hard for a long time to return Daein to its former grandeur. I know it won’t be easy, but if I have you two with me, I know we can do it.”

 

 

That can be interpreted as jealousy because Micaiah called him out on him being jealous of Micaiah's relationship with her bird so the same should apply with Volug, even more so because he's actually a person, much like the Black Knight. 

I honestly always took the whole "Ow ow ow" thing from Sothe to be because Yune was pecking at him for calling her annoying xD I don't know, I always thought those interactions were more teasing than anything but perception! Still I can't help picturing Sothe being pecked by Yune. I love that bird xD