Florete Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 (edited) My point wasn't we never made progress, my point is it never ends. America ALWAYS has SOMEONE to discriminate. From what I understand of the Propositon and its supporters, I wouldn't call it discrimination. They just believe the definition of marriage to be between a man and woman, they aren't against people being gay (Not all of them anyway). Don't get me wrong, I voted yes, but this is a much different case than it was when African Americans and Women were under discrimination. Edited November 9, 2008 by Red Fox of Fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YokaiKnight Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 (edited) Define far? Because all we do is give one set of people their rights and move onto denying another.Blacks got their rights so we deny women. Women get their rights, so we deny homosexuals. Who comes after that? To be fair, it's not like we decided to take away one group's rights after another got theirs. All of them were oppressed in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I voted yes, but this is a much different case than it was when African Americans and Women were under discrimination.There was a time when the definition of a citizen was a (white) male landowner. Edited November 9, 2008 by YokaiKnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynthia Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 and you fail to realize that NOBODY really makes any progress, we all have our hatereds toward someone I do not "fail to realize" that. As people can make progress on other subjects, like if you make progress in school or something. Also I believe people can indeed one day be less hateful, as what you say isn't fact, as you don't know what the future holds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Rabbit Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 I do not "fail to realize" that.As people can make progress on other subjects, like if you make progress in school or something. Also I believe people can indeed one day be less hateful, as what you say isn't fact, as you don't know what the future holds. Human beings are evil, horrible creatures and all deserve to die painfully. I wouldn't have it any other way. You can speak out against the immoral all you want, but it's not a battle we can win. We are human afterall. But you already know this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 From what I understand of the Propositon and its supporters, I wouldn't call it discrimination. They just believe the definition of marriage to be between a man and woman, they aren't against people being gay (Not all of them anyway). Don't get me wrong, I voted yes, but this is a much different case than it was when African Americans and Women were under discrimination. It's not the motivation of the voters I question, so much as the motivation of the ones who put it forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defeatist Elitist Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Human beings are evil, horrible creatures and all deserve to die painfully. I wouldn't have it any other way.You can speak out against the immoral all you want, but it's not a battle we can win. We are human afterall. Who are you to judge a species? Words like "evil", and phrases like "deserve to" are entirely subjective. You CAN win against what you think is immoral, it's just hard. But it's not really in Human nature to hate. Only to fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Who are you to judge a species? Words like "evil", and phrases like "deserve to" are entirely subjective. You CAN win against what you think is immoral, it's just hard. But it's not really in Human nature to hate. Only to fear. Hate is just as natural as fear, strictly speaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Rabbit Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 (edited) Who are you to judge a species? Words like "evil", and phrases like "deserve to" are entirely subjective. You CAN win against what you think is immoral, it's just hard. But it's not really in Human nature to hate. Only to fear. Who am I to judge a specie that I belong to? Better yet how can I fairly asses mankind with just a few thousand years of blood, greed and hate? And no, ultimately you can't win. You can make as big of an impact as you want though. My view on mankind is like an observer and a player. As the observer I wanna see how far we go, knowing human nature very well (that means good and bad). As the player I believe in the goodness of people, even though it will probably be fruitless. Edited November 9, 2008 by Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defeatist Elitist Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Who am I to judge a specie that I belong to? Better yet how can I fairly asses mankind with just a few thousand years of blood, greed and hate?And no, ultimately you can't win. You can make as big of an impact as you want though. My view on mankind is like an observer and a player. As the observer I wanna see how far we go, knowing human nature very well (that means good and bad). As the player I believe in the goodness of people, even though it will probably be fruitless. How long have you lived? You can talk about human history all you want, but the majority of the populace and human race in general just went along with their lives, hoping to live, have children, grow old and die. I could just as easily counter that with how fairly can you assess mankind with a few thousand years of love, caring, devotion, and cultivation. Ultimately, any battle is winnable. It's just a matter of how feasible it is. You, me, everyone is a player. You observe, but you must observe, ironically, from both a subjective view, and an objective view, at the same time. You say that you know human nature very well, but do you? How can you tell what is good and bad? What is evil to you might be commonplace for another person. There is no universal right or wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Rabbit Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 How long have you lived? You can talk about human history all you want, but the majority of the populace and human race in general just went along with their lives, hoping to live, have children, grow old and die. I could just as easily counter that with how fairly can you assess mankind with a few thousand years of love, caring, devotion, and cultivation. Ultimately, any battle is winnable. It's just a matter of how feasible it is. You, me, everyone is a player. You observe, but you must observe, ironically, from both a subjective view, and an objective view, at the same time. You say that you know human nature very well, but do you? How can you tell what is good and bad? What is evil to you might be commonplace for another person. There is no universal right or wrong. You're right, I forgot about perspectives. That changes my stance a bit. So long as there are two perspectives that are in anyway different, there will be conflict which leads to war and hate. Fighting never stops ever, therefore neither side can actually win. Well that's not true... fighting stops when we're all dead. :D History is truly written by winners, that's why it's so bloody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defeatist Elitist Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 You're right, I forgot about perspectives. That changes my stance a bit.So long as there are two perspectives that are in anyway different, there will be conflict which leads to war and hate. Fighting never stops ever, therefore neither side can actually win. Well that's not true... fighting stops when we're all dead. :D History is truly written by winners, that's why it's so bloody. Hate isn't born from conflict, it's born from fear and misunderstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom103 Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 The Roman empire was the greatest Empire in history, it had the strongest economy and the strongest army. Wanna know why it fell? Because it became christian and mixed it's religious values with it's army and policies I am 100% for gay marriage and gay children Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canas is back Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 The Roman empire was the greatest Empire in history, it had the strongest economy and the strongest army.Wanna know why it fell? Because it became christian and mixed it's religious values with it's army and policies I am 100% for gay marriage and gay children no, the government became too totalitarian and corrupted within, by the time the empire accepted christianity it was well on it's way to declining, not only that but most of the army by that time was mercenaries that were from the barbarian tribes that essentially let thier fellows in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom103 Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 no, the government became too totalitarian and corrupted within, by the time the empire accepted christianity it was well on it's way to declining, not only that but most of the army by that time was mercenaries that were from the barbarian tribes that essentially let thier fellows in. the reason why they were mercenaries is because their army became weak, they adopted Christianity and their morals changed making them less prone to kill and became weaker. your time line is wrong, Rome adopted Christianity right after the pax roman which were the 5 great emperors. they kept peace and prosperity. after the last of the good emperors adopted Christianity then it all went down hill with the corruption Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom103 Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Human beings are evil, horrible creatures and all deserve to die painfully. I wouldn't have it any other way.You can speak out against the immoral all you want, but it's not a battle we can win. We are human afterall. But you already know this. that was a powerful incorrect statement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canas is back Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 (edited) the reason why they were mercenaries is because their army became weak, they adopted Christianity and their morals changed making them less prone to kill and became weaker. your time line is wrong, Rome adopted Christianity right after the pax roman which were the 5 great emperors. they kept peace and prosperity. after the last of the good emperors adopted Christianity then it all went down hill with the corruption no, the first one to accept christianity was constantine, and that was after the height of the roman empire, the next emperor was pagan, then two emperors later the empire split, that wasn't christianities fault, and besides even constantine thought it was alright to kill if it was nessacary, read the decline and fall of the roman empire sometime, that will get some of your biased notions out of your head Edited November 9, 2008 by Shigeru Miyamoto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canas is back Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 (edited) frankly the biggest flaw of humanity is not fear but objectizing things, which is where most stereotypes come from, and we all end up doing it, like a good majority of athiests I know treat religous people as an object and disregard them as "just stupid nutjobs", a good majority of people I saw vote for obama made him some sort of super-human, plenty of people treat things they hate or even like as an object rather than what it actually is and many things are more complex than we can ever imagine. Edited November 9, 2008 by Shigeru Miyamoto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Rabbit Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Hate isn't born from conflict, it's born from fear and misunderstanding. Hate is born from fighting as well as fear. I said that comes before hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom103 Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Hate and fear is a choice while want is our nature. @Shigeru Miyamoto - I deeply apologize my time line was off a bit, your right XD been a while since talking about Rome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noremaC Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 *cheers* awww to bad.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defeatist Elitist Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Hate is born from fighting as well as fear. I said that comes before hate. No. When we fight someone we are less likely and able to understand them, thus more likely to hate them. Hate IS a choice. It's not "Human nature". Very few things are. I don't hate anyone or anything, and I don't know if I ever could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Spoon Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Yes! Gay marrige is banned in California. Now the gays will learn to become heterosexual, and get married to members of the opposite sex like normal people should (if they choose to get married). That was not sarcasm, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defeatist Elitist Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Yes! Gay marrige is banned in California. Now the gays will learn to become heterosexual, and get married to members of the opposite sex like normal people should (if they choose to get married).That was not sarcasm, btw. TROLL! TROLL! TROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynthia Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 (edited) Yes! Gay marrige is banned in California. Now the gays will learn to become heterosexual, and get married to members of the opposite sex like normal people should (if they choose to get married).That was not sarcasm, btw. Possibly the most blunt ignorant hateful thing I have read on this forum... You can't just tell people not to do something then expect them to see your way, and accept it. You can't TELL people to be heterosexual. I certainly won't be heterosexual just because you tell me to. Edited November 9, 2008 by Cynthia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Rabbit Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 No. When we fight someone we are less likely and able to understand them, thus more likely to hate them. Hate IS a choice. It's not "Human nature". Very few things are. I don't hate anyone or anything, and I don't know if I ever could. I'll give you that, but even you can't be above hate always. On another note, it's cool that you have such high faith in man's goodness. I believe in it, but it never suprises me when I don't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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