Thane Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Hello everyone. My favorite idiom is "you can make the audience believe the impossible but not the improbable". That means, for example, that we can accept things like magic and dragons but not convenient deus ex machina or contrivances that come out of nowhere. Realism in fictional worlds is important because knowing how they operate makes it easier to immerse yourself in it and temporarily accept it as your reality. Fire Emblem mostly takes place in medieval anime fantasy Europe, and while you have to swallow more than a few unrealistic things like hot unarmored princes fighting on the front lines and fraternizing with their soldiers being the norm rather than the exception, it's always good to have a few elements that sell the medieval setting. That's where writing style, speech and tone come in. As an official linguist (gonna milk that degree for all it's worth, even if this is not my area of study at all), I find this to be one of the more interesting things in terms of translations and localizations. English Fire Emblem, in general, mixes some older words with a very modern speaking style, and has done so since Blazing Blade. This creates an interesting clash within the same world and can be used to easily distinguish character traits like age and personality. For example: Quote Marcus: I do. Mine eyes fill with tears of joy, truly... No doubt they wrote "mine" rather than "my" to deliberately make Marcus sound either more old-fashioned, formal, poetic, or all three. Meanwhile, in the same game, you've got Farina, who says the following: Quote Farina: Not to be morbid, but there are sympathy payments to my family in the unlikely case of my death, for example. Not to mention bonuses and hazard pay, medical treatment... I'm not an expert on medieval mercenary recruitment, but I have a hard time imagining this kind of terminology being thrown around often. However, the usage of said terminology allows us to easily grasp what Farina is all about not just because of what she says, but also how she expresses it. What's important to keep in mind is that, regardless of the words being employed by the characters, no one, not even the most formal or eloquent speaker in the series, speaks medieval English. Middle English was being spoken from around 1150-1500 and was effectively a much more complicated and overall different language that later underwent simplifications that separated it from its Germanic cousins after the Norman invasion of England in 1066. We would most likely not understand much if a character broke out in full ye olde English, which is why that is avoided. However, what we do expect from "translated" Middle English is more formality, a more restrained and somber way of speaking, and of course older or rarer words. It is therefore a compromise to utilize something closer to 19:th century dialogue and manner of speech, rather than going back all the way. It helps create the illusion of a medieval world without it being completely alien to us. I believe the game that has thus far succeeded the best at this is Fire Emblem Echoes, where the nobles noticeably have a more refined way of speaking, while characters like Mae and Gray sound like people you could run into today. I'm personally fine with a mixture of both the modern and old so long as both elements are written well and treated with respect. I believe it can help separate characters' personalities like with the previous Marcus and Farina example. While I'm partial to more conservative language, I also believe it's easy to go too far with it, especially in a series like Fire Emblem which colorful cast of characters is its biggest strength. All in all, I would like for the series to continue on Echoes' path, where language can be clearly used to distinguish separate characters, without coming across as trying too hard and losing the modern vernacular in the process. What do you think of the writing style of Fire Emblem? How do you want FE16 to handle it? If anyone knows more about Japanese than I do, please feel free to add any interesting trivia you might think of. I thought Hector sounded like your typical anime high school deadbeat when playing through Blazing Blade in Japanese, using a manner of speech that in a modern setting makes him sound rough around the edges, but in a historical context would've made him sound like a peasant even though he comes from the biggest city in Lycia. However, like I said earlier, I don't know enough about the details of the Japanese language to say anything for certain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoKnight Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Immersion is important for me. Too much modern styled speech makes the world feel too "anime" for a lack of better term; as if present day people were plucked from 2018 and dropped off in their medival fantasy playground. Mae from SoV stands out as one who speaks in a way far too modern compared to the more antiquated expressions used by other characters. Fire Emblem has dabbled in language differences such as the ones listed in the OP but generally it doesn't go far beyond "country bumkin" and "everyone else". I would like to see more variation, between different classes of people and even origin (Athena's foreigness was an interesting gimmick, let's do more with that). As a good language model, and general approach to fantasy, I like how GoT (the books, especially) used different language styles. There are archaic terms and expressions that help it feel like fantasy but it's still easy to approach. Some characters are very eloquent, and others use more provincial and coarse language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Yeah, if everybody talked like they were in a Shakespeare play, it'd be pretty hard to understand. I heard there's a version of Final Fantasy Tactics that has the characters talk like that. How true is that? Anyone know? I'll have to agree with you on Echoes and how it handled the differences between nobles and commoners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ae†her Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Dragoncat said: Yeah, if everybody talked like they were in a Shakespeare play, it'd be pretty hard to understand. I heard there's a version of Final Fantasy Tactics that has the characters talk like that. How true is that? Anyone know? I'll have to agree with you on Echoes and how it handled the differences between nobles and commoners. Yet fantasy writers are able to make speech that keeps up to a modern audience and with a understandable style, while still having a very medieval-fantasy tone. No one is asking for Shakespeare here, just a little bit of dedication. It's not impossible at all, but IS might not want to do it because it makes localization and other things harder (I guess). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moblin Major General Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 It works for most Western languages, but it would be nightmarish for Eastern Countries, including Japan itself. I heard that Japanese people had a hard time understanding Emperor Showa (Hirohito for Westerners) in his radio broadcast, as he spoke traditional Japanese, which was rare even back in 1945. Worse still, it might lead to a confusing localization that might not even make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Well I found this little nugget. https://legendsoflocalization.com/does-lyn-talk-like-a-country-gal-in-japanese-fire-emblem/ Unfortunately as it says at the end, it only covers the first two chapters. Nonetheless, it appears here and possibly in other games, NoA may intentionally alter tone to make things more serious. Having read all of the Extended Script SF has for RD, the translator used the English wherever there wasn't new additions or a significant difference in tone, which was the majority of the time. Suggesting possibly either a more formal writing tone in the Japanese and hence no need in the English to upgrade it, or a willingness to accept informality in the English. Probably the former if anything since RD is overwhelmingly serious- cracking jokes is a no outside of some Base Conversations. I'm fine with some modernization, and I dislike formality that becomes stilted for the sake of it and possibly incomprehensible due to a being a mess of flowery wording. But then again, I don't like overly modern designs in characters or for their humor to be too blatantly the spawn of the internet. I also really like Bastian's formal tone and poetic language. But it'd be unreasonable to ask for more than two or three Bastians in any game, since that's a lot of work to make, and at a certain point, the fatigue it would bring would result in sloppy incomprehensible false poeticism because they lack the energy to write it well anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thane Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said: Well I found this little nugget. https://legendsoflocalization.com/does-lyn-talk-like-a-country-gal-in-japanese-fire-emblem/ Unfortunately as it says at the end, it only covers the first two chapters. Nonetheless, it appears here and possibly in other games, NoA may intentionally alter tone to make things more serious. That is very interesting, thanks for sharing. They also made Alm considerably more humorous in his observations in the localized version of Echoes as well, if I recall correctly. Edited January 7, 2018 by Thane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingle Jangle Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 My English (or writing skills) are not the best, but I do remember a part of a support in Fates between Peri and Xander about proper speech. Spoiler Xander: I shall start by letting you in on a secret. When nobles speak, we typically consider our words with great care. We take time to build up a large vocabulary that we may properly convey our thoughts. Peri: You mean, you use fancy words? Xander: Ha! That's one way to look at it. Once you build up a proper vocabulary, it's easier to speak formally. I swear, it's not as hard as it first seems. Peri: That's all it takes? OK! I'll give it a shot! *ahem* Thou Lord Xander! Would thine desirest to ride to the batt—um, the kerfuffle with us? Xander: ... "Thou" is a pronoun. You don't use it with a name. Also, it is an informal pronoun... As for "kerfuffle"— Peri: Whaaat?! That was wrong? I don't get it... This is too hard! Xander: "Lord Xander! Is it your will to ride into battle with us this day?" That would be how it's said with the proper formalities. Now you try. Peri: How can I?! I don't get it at all! You lied, Lord Xander! This is WAY too hard to keep straight! Xander: Don't get discouraged. It takes practice. Here's how you could have said that... Repeat after me. "This is far too burdensome to put into practice!" That's how a refined lady might say it. Now you try. Peri: This is far too...burdensome...to put into practice. Xander: Excellent! Very good, Peri. It's quite a contrast to how the rest for characters speak in Fates. As you said the rest of Fates speaks in modern tongue, just an observation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoKnight Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 3 hours ago, Jingle Jangle said: My English (or writing skills) are not the best, but I do remember a part of a support in Fates between Peri and Xander about proper speech. Hide contents Xander: I shall start by letting you in on a secret. When nobles speak, we typically consider our words with great care. We take time to build up a large vocabulary that we may properly convey our thoughts. Peri: You mean, you use fancy words? Xander: Ha! That's one way to look at it. Once you build up a proper vocabulary, it's easier to speak formally. I swear, it's not as hard as it first seems. Peri: That's all it takes? OK! I'll give it a shot! *ahem* Thou Lord Xander! Would thine desirest to ride to the batt—um, the kerfuffle with us? Xander: ... "Thou" is a pronoun. You don't use it with a name. Also, it is an informal pronoun... As for "kerfuffle"— Peri: Whaaat?! That was wrong? I don't get it... This is too hard! Xander: "Lord Xander! Is it your will to ride into battle with us this day?" That would be how it's said with the proper formalities. Now you try. Peri: How can I?! I don't get it at all! You lied, Lord Xander! This is WAY too hard to keep straight! Xander: Don't get discouraged. It takes practice. Here's how you could have said that... Repeat after me. "This is far too burdensome to put into practice!" That's how a refined lady might say it. Now you try. Peri: This is far too...burdensome...to put into practice. Xander: Excellent! Very good, Peri. It's quite a contrast to how the rest for characters speak in Fates. As you said the rest of Fates speaks in modern tongue, just an observation. Does Xander ever speak that way outside of that support? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.