Cuphead In: Don't Deal With the Mafia (Game Over)

[Cú Chulainn]

Currently making a post. I'm groggy but I have something coming.

[Estelle]

I'm back, and hardly coherent.  Gimme a bit.

[Cú Chulainn]

On 2/7/2018 at 4:17 AM, Rumor Honeybottoms said:

not sure i like cala maria's latest post. first paragraph is useless fluff. second paragraph is a piggybacked read. third paragraph is what strikes me as the oddest, tbh. "i'm fine with this person voting you but i don't have thoughts on you yet but you'd better not do x" is pretty waffly. almost reads to me like she knows i'm town and would rather have others mislynch me than have to hop onto the wagon herself

I suck at formatting so the first part of my post goes here:

Good morning. I slept for a while.  I'm fine with a grim lynch.  I think grim/cala/Rumor is a likely scum team frankly.

Rereading part of the thread previously I am still confused as to how people see cala/rumor interactions exactly.  At the point in time when Rumor was pushing Cala it was even commented on it at the point in time that Cala had been defending Rumor for a portion of the day up until then mainly.  There is also an interesting tidbit with Grim basically town, or not scumreading, both of them directly after.

In the first quote we see Rumor's case on Cala and overall it's not a particularly strong case against Cala, but people say this is being read as scum/town and this interaction makes Cala more townie overall?  I don't see it, especially when you move forward into this:

On 2/7/2018 at 4:20 AM, Cala Maria said:

I have been defending you from the start; I can't do anything about you playing badly and not voting people who you actually think are scummy, considering that you actually didn't vote someone who you thought was scummy.

 

On 2/7/2018 at 4:31 AM, Cala Maria said:

You say I'm waffling on you, but I've been defending you. Your reasons for voting me are false. You've done nothing to dissuade Kahl from not voting you, just because I disagree with someone's reasons, I need to call them out and not be fine with it? Wtf is that logic? 

Two blatant statements of Cala defending Rumor as well as a statement stating how the vote reasonings are false,  I wouldn't say so much as false but it was kind of weak.

On 2/7/2018 at 5:00 AM, Cala Maria said:

Sally>Wally and tbh Rumor's vote gave me cognitive dissonance but I still want to believe they're town. Anyway, I'm voting neither of Sally/Wally.

Instead, ##Vote: Hilda Berg

First, 

Read the first few pages of this game. There was a player who flipped scum who was quite defensive, tried to follow the flock and not really contribute to the discussion. Hilda Berg and this player share the same kind of playstyle, I'm not making a mistake here.

And I don't care that Hilda let Beppi off the hook, if you've read this phase then it becomes clear that pushing Beppi as a lynch today would be bad, I'm not really seeing how that implies that Hilda is town, I don't follow your logic Werner.

I still say I dislike this Hilda vote, and with the flip of Hilda town I dislike it more.  Also reads Rumor as town, but this should be obvious based on the defending of the slot.

On 2/7/2018 at 5:46 AM, Grim Matchstick said:

Why would Cala Maria stop scumreading me based on a metaread as scum? There's no scum motivation here other than to get townie points from me specifically. Like, no one had an issue with their read on me from my memory and it's such a weird waffle. There's no reason for mafia to do this but it makes a ton of sense to come from town who are actually trying to solve the game.

This Hilda vote is the same way. I mean, Hilda is an "easy" target but the case is super weak and it shows the player is going out of their way to read past games. Does mafia go read a game from like 4 months ago to come up with a flimsy case on the newbie? Who does that?

I'm just gonna ignore werner's posts since it makes this game bearable okhandemoji

##Unvote

Rumor, you said you're better at establishing townreads than scumreads. Okay, great. Who are your strongest townreads? Who are you confident in saying "This person is definitely town, don't lynch them ever"? Who is in your pool of not-townreads that you are willing to lynch?

The comments here basically imply that Cala is a town read but with no actual backing behind it.  The second paragraph even states that the Hilda vote is easy as well as weak.  Also mafia do go back and build cases on people in situations like that.  Shrugging off Cala's scummy vote as "Would mafia do that?" Is really bad imo.

On 2/7/2018 at 6:02 AM, Grim Matchstick said:

neither of their actions make sense to me as scummy

like, I think Rumor's content has been entirely unhelpful to the rest of the town but I agree with Briney that it doesn't make sense for scum (except for the part Wally quoted, echoing that skepticism). I'm pretty torn which is why I'm asking them for more of an explanation. It's easy to bullshit "yeah this looks like town infighting" or "this is a good post" but my gut is telling me I'm wrong about that making him scum

and I feel I've explained my issues with scum!Cala 

I also still feel bad about BvBB but no one else seems to agree with me and they've not posted so I don't really have anything to add other than bitching about them not posting.

Grim with connections to both Cala and Rumor here.  If Grim flips scum I really want to lynch Cala.

[Cú Chulainn]

Haven't actually read the previous page so let me read that.  I'm also trying to dig up some other things I think I saw from day 2.

[Estelle]

Oh, there's three and a half hours.

I'll be back, within the hour.  I just saw something that's both unrelated to this game, and must be addressed.

[Cú Chulainn]

On 2/16/2018 at 3:22 PM, Dr. Kahl said:

I'd rather lynch Grim TBH.  At least Sally did SOMETHING today.  His weird vote and lack of activity bothers me more than Sally's insistence on lynching Baroness and lack of responses to the cases on her.

This is a poor reason to state your lynch preference imo.  If you were scum reading Sally more I don't think the fact that just because they did something should mean they are worth more of a lynch than the other.  One could say scum is more likely to do something in a situation where they are about to be lynched.

16 hours ago, Captain Brineybeard said:

I want Baroness to reread the thread too but we're probably not lynching him today so unless you think his post is going to make him scummier in your eyes it's not immediately necessary. Not to mention, he'll be able to do it without slowing down the game over the night phase, and with Sally's flip confirmed to look for associative reads, so his reread will be better. 

this is kind of what I mean by delaying lynches in the name of discussion. Baroness made that post saying he was going to do a deep dive of the thread about 30 hours ago and has just made another post 7 hours ago saying they would be back in a few hours if they didn't fall asleep, which I take to mean he did. he (and Grim) have had most of the day phase to post content and haven't so far. looks like Sally's given up too

phase ends tomorrow anyways so at this point it doesn't matter much though

Apologies once again, the past few days were extremely hectic and I'm getting used to new work environment.  My sleep schedule is so out of wack at the moment and I haven't had a good nights rest for a few days.

9 hours ago, Sally Stageplay said:

I haven't given up, I literaly said I wouldn't have much time to post the last two days in my last post...

I really think people are jumping to conclusions with this. Yes, Baroness would have prefered to kill someone who was suspecting her, but that doesn't mean she'll do so for sure. As I said before, scum seems to have decided they're not affraid of the cop role, so they decided to lynch the player who was basicly confirmed town and was adding to discussion more. I don't see this as something Baroness wouldn't do. Reads on people change all the time.

Scum buddy of Baroness would have to be Werner or Captain. Currently thinking Captain, because he seems to be consistently leading suspision in the wrong direction. His generally states good reasons for doing so, but it's  starting to stand out.

I'll read up on the cases on now.

Why is Werner my buddy if I'm scum? I feel that's a weird statement to make imo.  What about with Grim?  Who's Grim's buddy assuming he's scum?

[Cú Chulainn]

On 2/7/2018 at 10:54 AM, Cala Maria said:

I didn't mention Cagney,Grim or BvBB so I should talk about them:

With Grim I feel like Grim is the player who struggles early in the game making cases but gets better as the game goes by and is very good at the endgame so I didn't want to vote him on chance that if he was scum it would show in his play since he wouldn't be able to come up with content or reads D2, I didn't feel like voting him would be correct since I had a good idea of his play. I also feel like the huge wall post he posted today is good although I disagree with his Beppi case. I agree with the BvBB case which I'll get to. I really don't know who Cagney is and don't know why some people townread him, not sure what I'm missing here. @Grim Matchstick I townread Beppi partly on an identity read but also Beppi I feel would have just used sickness as an excuse to not participate in the discussion as mafia at that point in the game. I also feel like Beppi in general being part of the discussion more often than the other players comes from a town mindset. I feel like his reads are vague in the sense that they all sound the same in the he handles them but I feel like he'd do this as either alignment. Also feel like he wouldn't talk about not being lynched today as mafia but I'd rather not expand on that.

 

With BvBB I agree with Grim that coming on at deadline and picking an argument with Briney is an easy out for scum, they get away with not contributing reads. I think the part where she go es from Djimmi being null to acknowledging the possibility of voting djimmi to saying that she wanted to vote djimmi only out of consolidation is really bad because their explanation doesn't really match up with their posts. If you thought of voting out of consolidation then why did you even think about being swayed in the first place?

 

Cagney tbh the only thing I have is a defence because most of his content after my initial vote on him has been related to me.

Here's a post during day 2 that shows more Cala/Grim interactions.

Maybe I'm tunneling to hard but I am confident in a Cala/Grim/Rumor scum team.  However people don't want to lynch Cala so I'm really hoping that Grim does flip scum and people will actually look at this stuff.

And if he doesn't then IDK where I'm at.  I still think Werner/Captain are town so that puts me looking at Cala/DR. Kahl/Sally.  If Grim flips town I still think I dislike Cala but I haven't checked for interactions with the other two and him and I don't know which would more likely be his buddy.

I'm gonna read some more and see if I can find anything.  I might just post random quotes of things I see that I don't like so apologies if I flood the thread with a few things.

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

I mean, I was already scumreading Grim more than Sally.  What do you think about Grim not doing much today, considering you said it was less likely for scum to act that way but you're scumreading Grim anyways?

Why does Cala make more sense as scum w/Grim over Sally?

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

@Baroness Von Bon Bon Read above, probably should have quoted you there.

[Estelle]

@Sally Stageplay you mean to tell me it took you five days to read my stuff?  Anyway, that was you backtracking on things early in the game.  That's a scum tell in my books.

5 minutes ago, Baroness Von Bon Bon said:

Why is Werner my buddy if I'm scum? I feel that's a weird statement to make imo.  What about with Grim?  Who's Grim's buddy assuming he's scum?

Because I wasn't invested in your lynch.

---

Anyway, @Baroness Von Bon Bon, I mentioned way back when that if Kahl was scum, he would've driven the lynch on D1 from Djimmi (inactive town) to Honeybottoms (scum).  This would've been an early -1 for scum, for later WIFOM?  It's illogical at best, and game-throwing at worst.  Hence why I'm not scum-reading Kahl at all.

Won't object to a Grim lynch, since it'll move the topic of conversation elsewhere, and time's running short (partially my fault).  I'd still prefer a Sally lynch, though.

[Cú Chulainn]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Kahl said:

I mean, I was already scumreading Grim more than Sally.  What do you think about Grim not doing much today, considering you said it was less likely for scum to act that way but you're scumreading Grim anyways?

Why does Cala make more sense as scum w/Grim over Sally?

Didn't know that WRT the first part.  That's why I asked you the question.  I still think Grim is scum.  I just said:

Quote

One could say scum is more likely to do something in a situation where they are about to be lynched.

Scum is also very common to just shutting down and posting nothing.  I just felt that your reasoning stating that since Sally did something it was worth more than Grim doing nothing was weird.  If you were already scum reading Grim > Sally I feel like you didn't really need to state it with that reasoning.  The reasoning you stated Implies that you were scum reading Sally > Grim.  Apologies for the confusion.

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

Oh, my mistake.  I do feel like it bothered me more than Sally's thing considering Grim's prior play (Sally is playing consistently, which is not townie but it's not inherently scummy, if that makes any sense), but yeah I was scumreading Grim more prior to that.

You should definitely answer the Cala thing, though.  That slot has dropped off today too, which is a real PITA for reads but I can't get on her case for it because I pretty much did the same thing.

[Rain Nijika]

11 minutes ago, Baroness Von Bon Bon said:

Why is Werner my buddy if I'm scum? I feel that's a weird statement to make imo.  What about with Grim?  Who's Grim's buddy assuming he's scum?

1. I said Captain was the more likely candidate.

2. PoE. I'm basicly convinced Wally and Kahl are town, and Cala and Grimm don't make sense as scumbuddies for you. That leaves Werner and Captain.

I didn't delve into who makes sense as a scumbuddy for Grimm because I don't think he's scum.

2 minutes ago, Werner Werman said:

@Sally Stageplay you mean to tell me it took you five days to read my stuff?  Anyway, that was you backtracking on things early in the game.  That's a scum tell in my books.

Missed it the first time around, saw it while I was rereading the thread to find out why people are scumreading me. You also didn't answer the question.

[Estelle]

1 minute ago, Sally Stageplay said:

1. I said Captain was the more likely candidate.

2. PoE. I'm basicly convinced Wally and Kahl are town, and Cala and Grimm don't make sense as scumbuddies for you. That leaves Werner and Captain.

I didn't delve into who makes sense as a scumbuddy for Grimm because I don't think he's scum.

Missed it the first time around, saw it while I was rereading the thread to find out why people are scumreading me. You also didn't answer the question.

I'm tempted to answer it four days from now.  However, the answer is in what your quoted.

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

How much time is left?

[Rain Nijika]

about 2 hours.

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

@King Dice @Mr. Wheezy @Prims @SB. Votals?

[C. C.]

Votals

Sally (3): Werner, Captain, Grim

Grim (1): Kahl

Baroness (1): Sally

Not Voting (3): Cala, Wally, Baroness

Less than an hour left?

[No Elimination]

Yeah I thought you were voting Grim fsr Captain and that Grim was the leading candidate. I think I'm more happy with a Sally lynch even though I can't read her at all but I just personally dislike the way Grim has acted this phase and that affected my judgement. Can vote but not sure if I'd hammer or not.

I think Baroness is more likely scum though because they have done exactly what you said they did and their opinionsare kinda lame. Scum have an advantage in keeping these townreads under suspicion and while looking at it from Cala's perspective is fine I don't know if Rumor would have acted that way towards their scumbuddy.

Pedit: need two votes then?

[C. C.]

@Baroness- just because Cala talks about Grim being a townread doesn't mean they're buddies? you don't actually have a case for them being buddies... you just find them independently scummy and haven't really addressed why people find Cala to be town

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

I'd rather lynch Baroness over Sally TBH but I don't think there are enough people on.  I'll be available to consolidate.

[Cú Chulainn]

I don't quite understand why Cala is seen to be town, like she had a scummy day 2 and then when Rumor was found to be scum everyone went "Oh that was town/scum interaction, I don't think Rumor would act that way in response towards his own scum buddy."  And then Cala made a couple of slightly better posts starting day 3 but not enough that I would say they are town.

It really looks to me like most people say she's town because of Cala/Rumor interactions and I don't understand that.

If I don't understand why people say she's town how am I supposed to argue against it?

[Estelle]

It's 5 to hammer.

[No Elimination]

Cala/Rumor interactions are much more indicative imo than making bad cases and general processes and stuff.

[Cú Chulainn]

##Vote: Grim

I thought grim was top in votes and didn't vote previously because I didn't want any hammer shenanigans.

I still would much rather prefer this but will consolidate if need be.

Like can someone explain to me why Cala is town with ANYTHING not rumor/cala interactions, that ALSO factors in her scummy day 2 and her terrible Hilda push day 2.