bunny: spider bitten Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Yes, because we all know the number of Archers that are top tier in this game. And all the Archers that were awesome in FE6-8. Being stuck to bows is rarely good. Just because it's a bit of a plus in her joining chapter doesn't mean diddly when she's stuck to bows before promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Astrid's strength growth has always concerned me, but I've usually been lucky in that department. That said, she's a mainstay in my playthroughs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Cow-Cow Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 (edited) Yes, because we all know the number of Archers that are top tier in this game. And all the Archers that were awesome in FE6-8.Being stuck to bows is rarely good. Just because it's a bit of a plus in her joining chapter doesn't mean diddly when she's stuck to bows before promotion. I'm not saying bows are amazing but imagine trying to train her with a direct attack weapon. Point is her using bows is good for in the 2-3 chapters she remains unpromoted. (which is pretty easy to promote her in 2-3 chapters). Edited November 16, 2008 by Lord Cow-Cow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunny: spider bitten Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Considering the only way to realistically use her and then claim she's decent is to load her with BEXP, having a direct attack weapon would only slightly dampen her ability in one chapter(Where the only reason people discuss using her in the chapter is because the ravens don't move). After that one chapter, you'd be able to use her like a normal unit, and she'd be better for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiba Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 I use her sometimes, but I haven't trained her enough to know her really that well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Cow-Cow Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Considering the only way to realistically use her and then claim she's decent is to load her with BEXP, having a direct attack weapon would only slightly dampen her ability in one chapter(Where the only reason people discuss using her in the chapter is because the ravens don't move). After that one chapter, you'd be able to use her like a normal unit, and she'd be better for it. 1st of all it takes little BEXP to level her and as long as she kills a few enemies she will easily promote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunny: spider bitten Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Considering that you're giving her enough BEXP to be usable, my last post stands. The point is you aren't using her out the door, so really, she'd be better with any other weapon before promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Considering the only way to realistically use her and then claim she's decent is to load her with BEXP, having a direct attack weapon would only slightly dampen her ability in one chapter(Where the only reason people discuss using her in the chapter is because the ravens don't move). After that one chapter, you'd be able to use her like a normal unit, and she'd be better for it.She gains like... 32 or 33 EXP per hit, 100 per kill. Even if you're using her conservatively, and assuming most chapters are 8 or 9 turns in length, she gets probably 3 or 4 level ups per chapter as opposed to everyone else getting 1. And BEXP makes this process even faster (give her a level or two, it's no big deal)... even if she does start weak, her growth speed more than compensates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunny: spider bitten Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 (edited) She takes a huge hit without BEXP. And even if that weren't the case, having a weapon type that could deal more damage would be more worthwhile to her in the long run regardless of how much BEXP she gets. Hit and Run with a bow would give her an edge for maybe the length of 3 chapters, but hey. Also, it's unrealistic to have her promoted in 2-3 chapters. Chapter 15 is a desert chapter, after all. Granted, since chapter 17 is 4 parts, she'll be promoted before 18, but there's no reason to have her promoted by 16, no matter how possible it is. Edited November 16, 2008 by bunny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 So you promote her and give her Axes? She takes a huge hit without BEXP.Then give her BEXP. She gets more out of it than most other units anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunny: spider bitten Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 So you promote her and give her Axes? Of course, that doesn't affect my argument at all. Please, do pay attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Cow-Cow Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Lord Raven tells it like it is conclusion: Astrid is a great character, she takes little to train and you get a BIG payoff. Oh and Lord Raven care to rule over the puny non-believers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunny: spider bitten Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Lord Raven tells it like it isconclusion: Astrid is a great character, she takes little to train and you get a BIG payoff. It's not even that big of a payoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 It's still a bigger payoff than using most characters in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Cow-Cow Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 She is probably one of the best characters, she has good mov., spd., skl. and when given axes does great dmg. (with good accuracy and doubling might I add). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunny: spider bitten Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 (edited) It actually translates to her being rather average statwise *after* a decent amount is put into her, with movement, paragon, BEXP, steel axes, and canto that make the cost worthwhile. Edited November 17, 2008 by bunny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Cow-Cow Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 It actually translates to her being rather average statwise *after* a decent amount is put into her, with movement, BEXP, steel axes, and canto that make the cost worthwhile. what is this cost of which you speak, it does not, I repeat DOES NOT "cost" much to make her a great - great, not just average- character, you just must be one of the impatient types see the lv.1 and say "screw this". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reikken Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 (edited) I'm not really sure what you're arguing about now, but... It takes like 500 bexp to make her instantly become average-good (great mobility, Ike-level speed). I wouldn't consider that much of a cost, considering that you've gotten about 3600 so far (hard mode) and potentially have another 1800 in the next two chapters. Then after that, she quickly becomes one of the game's best. Edited November 17, 2008 by Reikken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunny: spider bitten Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 (edited) What you're saying is that it costs nothing to use a unit that comes in ten levels lower. Frankly. It'd be one thing if I was saying she's worthless and you shouldn't use her. But I'm not. I'm not even saying she's average. I said she's decent. I just know she does average damage, she has a lot to owe to mechanics of the game(that aren't even in a majority of the titles in the series, I might add), and that she'd be better if she didn't start with bows. Edited November 17, 2008 by bunny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reikken Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Average damage? While she's unpromoted, sure. After she promotes, she does above average damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Cow-Cow Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 except if she didn't start with bows she would be forced to either use BEXP, or go into direct combat in which at lv.1 she would get slaughtered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reikken Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 (edited) Yeah, I think she's best off starting with bows so that her meh defensive stats don't matter. Bows are much better for her in ch 13. Later, they still have their strong points. One is that they're very lightweight. She can use a steel bow with no AS loss. Try doing that with a steel axe or lance. They're stronger, but she would lose AS. But that doesn't matter so much in ch 14, since those guys are uber slow. But she would still have to deal with the counterattacks. Another plus to having axes starting out is that she's more likely to be able to pick up an old, partially used forged iron axe. But another plus to starting with bows is that it ensures that she has a high bow level for later. Starting with axes and then taking bows after that means that she would have to do a lot of using a crappy iron bow in order to be able to make use of those brave bow, laguz bow, etc. Edited November 17, 2008 by Reikken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 I've never had issues with Astrid's strength...in either game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunny: spider bitten Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 (edited) Average damage? While she's unpromoted, sure. After she promotes, she does above average damage. Not really. Per attack she does well below average, and per round she's about average. Considering she's doing some 2 more damage than Zihark at the same level, and he's got Adept and a crit boost to put him just above her damage wise, she's beating maybe 10 characters in damage per round, and more than half of them don't double consistently. I've never had issues with Astrid's strength...in either game. It's debatable as to whether or not the amount of damage she inflicts is. . . effective, I guess would be the word for it, and with the small level advantage she'll run for a few of the later chapters, she does make it into the average area, but it begins to stagnate when you should realistically be removing Paragon. except if she didn't start with bows she would be forced to either use BEXP, or go into direct combat in which at lv.1 she would get slaughtered. You really don't want to argue how ineffective she is early on without BEXP, though. And that's either way. ;) Edited November 17, 2008 by bunny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Why the hell would you ever want to remove Paragon from her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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