Is no queen, but royal children, becoming a trend?

[Dragoncat]

I just did the latest story chapter on Heroes, and it got me wondering about Laegjarn and Laevatein's mother, if they share the same one, or if Surtr has a queen and a side chick. And then I remembered that in Fates, Xander's mother is never mentioned or appears either. Hoshido had Mikoto and Sumeragi as the royal couple, Nohr had Garon with his harem, but still no mother in sight for his heir, Xander.

Do you think it's becoming a trend in FE to have a king with children, but no queen in sight?  I suppose this was done as early as FE6 with Lilina's mother never appearing or being mentioned. A marquess is the same as a king in theory. Echoes gave Lima a harem too, but never said which one of those was his queen, but it wasn't necessary there I guess. Do you think, if this is a trend, that it should stop and develop the mothers of the royal children and give them a good role? Or do you not mind?

I don't mind it much, but I would like to see the queens/royal side chicks have some sort of a role. 

Slightly related: Alfonse and Sharena. They don't look like full blooded siblings. They don't share either a hair color or an eye color! Their father is mentioned briefly but no mother, which I'm pretty sure they have different mothers because they don't look anything alike.

Edited February 23, 2018 by Dragoncat

[Water Mage]

This is common in fiction in general, mostly because parents, even royalty, gets in the way of adventure. It’s not exclusive to Fire Emblem.

And in regards to Alfonse and Sharena, she is alive and well as far as well since the game’s lauch, since Sharena mentions that her mother lives in the castle. 

[YotsuMaboroshi]

"Royal side chicks" are called consorts.

From a strictly narrative point of view, the queen doesn't matter.  Xander's mother has no bearing on his character, so rather than come up with a design for her she's simply omitted from the story for efficiency.  You're just reading too much into the absence of characterization.

25 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

Slightly related: Alfonse and Sharena. They don't look like full blooded siblings. They don't share either a hair color or an eye color! Their father is mentioned briefly but no mother, which I'm pretty sure they have different mothers because they don't look anything alike.

Sharena writes letters to her mother, it's mentioned in one of her castle quotes.  Also, full blood siblings don't have to share hair or eye color, or look similar.  There's no actual evidence that they are only half siblings, just your speculation.  For all you know, Alfonse could take after their dad and Sharena could take after their mom, or vice-versa.

[Lightchao42]

Parents of the main characters were never important at any point; it's hardly a "recent" thing. Parents in this series mainly exist to die early and give their children proper motivation to fight the villain (in addition to what Water Mage said). Eleanora, Elena, and Mikoto are the only mothers of main characters to even have designs, and one of them is only present in flashbacks.

Not to mention that Garon has two wives (Xander's mother being Garon's first wife), a fact that is fairly important to Azura's backstory.

[Dragoncat]

24 minutes ago, YotsuMaboroshi said:

"Royal side chicks" are called consorts.

Yes but it's funner to call them royal side chicks. Also I forgot about the term "consort" when I made the topic.

Yeah, it's true that they'd be unnecessary to the story and a lot of fiction does it, but nobody else wonders at least a little bit?

[Water Mage]

1 hour ago, Dragoncat said:

Yes but it's funner to call them royal side chicks. Also I forgot about the term "consort" when I made the topic.

Yeah, it's true that they'd be unnecessary to the story and a lot of fiction does it, but nobody else wonders at least a little bit?

The problem, making those queens “characters” just to show that a queen exist, is kinda of a waste resources.

[Dragoncat]

29 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

The problem, making those queens “characters” just to show that a queen exist, is kinda of a waste resources.

True true. I guess it also leaves it open for fan content.

[Dandy Druid]

Is there a need for a queen though in terms of story? I would like more queen characters, but if they have no plot relevance/just an NPC, then what purpose do they have? If the queen was some sort of antagonist working against the Lord because he's not her son and she wants her children to ascend the throne, then that'd work. 

[Von Ithipathachai]

This thread makes me remember an idea I have for a side antagonist in the Fire Emblem: Ascension concept I'm working on right now.  Maybe it can avert this little issue some.

Spoiler

So this character is named Lucretia.  She was the queen consort of King Tarquin of Rema and mother of his son Cato, the current king of Rema and primary antagonist of the story.

She lived happily at first with her husband and son until a beautiful new servant girl arrived in their palace as a gift to Tarquin from the sultan of Feniz, one of Rema's neighbors.  Tarquin's affections quickly turned towards his new servant, who began living a life of luxury as his new concubine and bore him a son, Claudus (one of the two Lord characters).  This already angered Lucretia considerably, but it got worse as Cato grew very fond of his new half-brother despite Lucretia's best efforts to make Cato hate him.  One night, she could stand it no longer and attempted to kill Claudus and his mother.  She was able to kill Claudus's mother, but was apprehended before she could kill Claudus himself and secretly exiled by her husband.

Fast-forward about 10-15 years.  By this point, Tarquin has died of illness (possibly a broken heart?) and Cato has ascended the throne and begun conquering other countries in an attempt to restore Rema's dwindling resources.  Disagreeing with Cato's methods, Claudus joins forces with a girl named Carol (the other Lord character) who is fighting Reman occupation in her own country and embarks on a campaign to liberate the other countries and stop his brother.  Unbeknownst to any of them, Lucretia has been training as a full-fledged assassin while in exile, calling herself "The Banshee" and amassing her own band of assassins.  She spends a good bit of time pursuing Claudus across the continent to finish what she started with his mother.

She is eventually fought as a mid-to-late-game boss and defeated.

 

Edited February 24, 2018 by Von Ithipathachai

[Rezzy]

5 hours ago, Dragoncat said:

I just did the latest story chapter on Heroes, and it got me wondering about Laegjarn and Laevatein's mother, if they share the same one, or if Surtr has a queen and a side chick. And then I remembered that in Fates, Xander's mother is never mentioned or appears either. Hoshido had Mikoto and Sumeragi as the royal couple, Nohr had Garon with his harem, but still no mother in sight for his heir, Xander.

Do you think it's becoming a trend in FE to have a king with children, but no queen in sight?  I suppose this was done as early as FE6 with Lilina's mother never appearing or being mentioned. A marquess is the same as a king in theory. Echoes gave Lima a harem too, but never said which one of those was his queen, but it wasn't necessary there I guess. Do you think, if this is a trend, that it should stop and develop the mothers of the royal children and give them a good role? Or do you not mind?

I don't mind it much, but I would like to see the queens/royal side chicks have some sort of a role. 

Slightly related: Alfonse and Sharena. They don't look like full blooded siblings. They don't share either a hair color or an eye color! Their father is mentioned briefly but no mother, which I'm pretty sure they have different mothers because they don't look anything alike.

I believe Xander's mother, the old queen, is mentioned in some of his support conversations.

 

My sister and I do not share a hair color or eye color.

[Dragoncat]

3 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

My sister and I do not share a hair color or eye color.

Yeah I guess that is possible, I've seen things like, twins that are born from a dark skinned person and a light skinned person, and they're one of each instead of both having a little bit from each parent. The genetic lottery can operate that way but I think most of the time it doesn't and someone will resemble both parents instead of looking kinda like a clone of one. I had forgotten that when I made the OP I guess.

[Rezzy]

2 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

Yeah I guess that is possible, I've seen things like, twins that are born from a dark skinned person and a light skinned person, and they're one of each instead of both having a little bit from each parent. The genetic lottery can operate that way but I think most of the time it doesn't and someone will resemble both parents instead of looking kinda like a clone of one. I had forgotten that when I made the OP I guess.

Hair and eye color come from several alleles, so it's not always a mixture or a straight dominant inheritance.

My parents have Dark Brown Hair/Green Eyes and Light Brown Hair/Hazel Eyes respectively, and my sister has Light Brown Hair/Blue Eyes, while I have Reddish Blonde Hair/Green Eyes.

I mated with someone with Reddish Brown Hair/Blue Eyes to produce two Blond Hair/Blue Eyed children.

Brown Hair and Eyes tend to be dominant over other colors, but the others are a bit more complicated.

[Dragoncat]

4 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

Hair and eye color come from several alleles, so it's not always a mixture or a straight dominant inheritance.

Really? News to me! I thought there was one allele for each color with maybe the exception of hazel. Interesting!

Edited February 24, 2018 by Dragoncat

[Paper Jam]

On 2/23/2018 at 6:31 PM, Dandy Druid said:

Is there a need for a queen though in terms of story? I would like more queen characters, but if they have no plot relevance/just an NPC, then what purpose do they have? If the queen was some sort of antagonist working against the Lord because he's not her son and she wants her children to ascend the throne, then that'd work. 

Eleanora wasn't particularly relevant to the story of FE7, but that didn't stop them from giving her a face and a few scenes.

[Icelerate]

I wonder who Deginsea's wife was. 

[Jotari]

Wouldn't say it's a particularly recent trend. I don't think they even bothered to include a mother for Sigurd on the official family tree. And way back in Haider. We find out Rudolf is Alm's father but don't get even the slightest indication of who his mother is. As people say, it's useually a pretty irrelevant detail. That being said, I useually lime seeing the parents of characters even if they accomplish little, so I wouldn't object to seeing more queen's just hanging around. Mikoto at the very least should have.

[vanguard333]

On ‎2018‎-‎02‎-‎23 at 3:36 PM, YotsuMaboroshi said:

"Royal side chicks" are called consorts.

Wouldn't concubine be the word for it? Dragoncat specifically said "queens/royal side chicks", suggesting that he means something other than a queen by "royal side chicks". A consort is a queen by being the wife of the king. A concubine, however, isn't. 

For instance, Almedha, if she was Ashnard's wife during his reign as king, would've been a Queen Consort. If she wasn't, she would have either just been his wife if they were married, or his concubine if they weren't married. I can't remember; did Radiant Dawn ever say anything about her relationship with Ashnard other then her being the mother of his child?

Anyway, it's a long trend in popular media that has far more to do with efficiency than anything else. It's an easy thing to do. The king is usually plot-relevant, as is the prince/princess if they're the protagonist, so, unless the queen is important to the story, nothing really needs to be written about her. Personally, though, I think if a character is going to be important to the story, then their relatives should be explored at least to the extent of the impact they have on said character. But it's something even I've done in my earlier writing attempts:

In my very first draft of my book, I had the prince who was the protagonist, his older brother, his younger sister, and his father (the king) all fleshed-out characters. But the queen... I wrote that she was alive, and briefly present in some parts of the book, but I had nothing written about her, and, looking back on it, that was one of the many flaws with my book.

For my new book that I'm writing, the queen is dead long before the events of the novel, but I'm noticing that I'm still doing the same thing when constructing other royal families in my book: I think of the ruling parent, any princes and princesses, and that's it. It's something I'm still working on.

But, as I said, even if a character is never going to be seen, they should at least be developed so that the audience can at least see their effect on the characters the story does care about. For example, Ike's mother was dead long before the events of Path of Radiance, but she still was a developed character with a name and appearance as well as a clear impact on Ike, Mist and Greil, and I honestly think the only reason she was developed more than most protagonist-mothers in FE is because, like Almedha, she had her own importance to the story.

[Dandy Druid]

On 2/27/2018 at 8:35 AM, Paper Jam said:

Eleanora wasn't particularly relevant to the story of FE7, but that didn't stop them from giving her a face and a few scenes.

Yeah I remember her. I believe her existence helps shape Zephiel's character for FE6 though, so she's irrelevant for FE7, but is a part of his character. It's a small contribution, but she helps characterize him.

[Jotari]

23 minutes ago, Dandy Druid said:

Yeah I remember her. I believe her existence helps shape Zephiel's character for FE6 though, so she's irrelevant for FE7, but is a part of his character. It's a small contribution, but she helps characterize him.

I think you're mistaking who Eleanora is. She's Eliwood's mother, who provides and shoulder for him to cry on after he fails to save his father. She never appears in Fe6 or has any connection to Zephiel.

Edited March 1, 2018 by Jotari

[Dandy Druid]

3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I think you're mistaking who Eleanora is. She's Eliwood's mother, who provides and shoulder for him to cry on after he fails to save his father. She never appears in Fe6 or has any connection to Zephiel.

Whoops, got her mixed up with Hellene. 

*quick google searches Eleanora*

Oh yeah she's pretty irrelevant, only being mentioned in a support conversation and sending Isadora (lol) to our army.

[YotsuMaboroshi]

2 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Wouldn't concubine be the word for it? Dragoncat specifically said "queens/royal side chicks", suggesting that he means something other than a queen by "royal side chicks". A consort is a queen by being the wife of the king. A concubine, however, isn't.

Concubine is correct.  I confused the two because consort is diminutive.  Formally, a queen rules, a queen consort does not.  Marrying a queen does not make a man king, it makes them a prince consort unless the queen cedes power to them (not that that's important for this discussion).

Almedha apparently was married to Ashnard (at least according to the wiki), which would make her a queen consort after his crowning.

[Paper Jam]

20 hours ago, Dandy Druid said:

Whoops, got her mixed up with Hellene. 

*quick google searches Eleanora*

Oh yeah she's pretty irrelevant, only being mentioned in a support conversation and sending Isadora (lol) to our army.

Which, again, didn't stop her from making a personal appearance in chapter 11 of Eliwood's tale, and at the end of "Living Legend" (if you didn't take the "Genesis" sidequest) or "Genesis" (if you did).

And on the subject of Hellene, I'd argue that Hellene was more relevant to FE7 than to FE6, since it was Hellene who helped Eliwood reach the Shrine of Seals.

Edited March 1, 2018 by Paper Jam

[Dandy Druid]

On 3/1/2018 at 2:00 PM, Paper Jam said:

Which, again, didn't stop her from making a personal appearance in chapter 11 of Eliwood's tale, and at the end of "Living Legend" (if you didn't take the "Genesis" sidequest) or "Genesis" (if you did).

And on the subject of Hellene, I'd argue that Hellene was more relevant to FE7 than to FE6, since it was Hellene who helped Eliwood reach the Shrine of Seals.

I can see that. She certainly has more presence in FE7. In FE6, her importance is very indirect.