Tino vs. Bunny

[bunny: spider bitten]

I haven't played FE9 recently, but I'm bored. So here goes.

I'll start by saying that this is a bit of an odd situation for me, because frankly I find the ability to move again a tad overrated.

Titania is around most of the game, as is Boyd. Being a prepromote she won't see much use early on offensively, but she'll have the best stats defensively for most of her first 10 chapters, and will blockade a number of points. Whether you plan to use her or not, she'll be of great importance in the early chapters, especially if the goal of the chapter isn't to kill everything. She can weaken bosses as well, though you have to be careful she doesn't kill them.

In reality, if you don't plan on killing everything in the chapter anyway, then you can actually allow her to kill some of the enemies coming toward her. There's still a point where you'll be weakening other units for a few chapters, but it's not a complete loss.

After her first ten or so chapters of running around as a wall, the other characters will probably start to make her seem a bit weak stat wise. She'll have every character in at least one stat, though, and generally that base off.

While it's a bit early to go wild and have Titania raping everyone, but she's fairly safe to use after the desert chapter or when people hit level 15.

At level 15, Boyd has around:

39 HP

14 Str

10 Skl

8 Def

3 Res

11 AS

30 Avo

He can use an Iron Axe for 22 DMG and 103 hit or a Steel Axe for 25 DMG, 93 hit, and -1 AS.

Titania can use the Iron Axe or the Steel Lance. She's probably at base level, so we're talking about

33 HP

12 Str

13 Skl

11 Def

7 Res

14 AS

39 Avo

Iron Axe: 20 DMG, 112 hit

Steel Lance: 22 DMG, 107 hit, -1 AS.

A big point for her is her ability to take on sword users as well. She picks up either a damage lead or a hit lead against Boyd.

Up until Boyd promotes, he's not doing much to her. She's not leveling as fast as Boyd, but his HP caps out by level 16 and defensively he's not really improving for the next five chapters. She has rather amazing weapon levels that'll carry her fairly well offensively, though.

In fact, she can pick up that Silver axe if she wants to surpass him in DMG. She'll still have better hit, too. And after 2-3 levels, she only loses 1 AS.

Then there's promotion. Boyd is looking forward to it, as it really helps him pick up against her. After promotion, he really does beat her in most other stats for the rest of the game, even with her level lead.

Supports. Boyd and Titania support each other. It's a bad support though, so that's out. Titania is stealing Mist from Boyd. Titania has Ike, but that's really slow and not his best option. Boyd has Brom,

Titania's A with Mist will increase her small Defense and res lead into a solid defense and res lead, making up for her HP. Boyd increases his offensive lead, though since he's already one rounding most things, it's not as effective. Despite rather great competition for support, if you do give Titania Ike, she also solidifies an avoid lead.

As for the characters themselves that they support with, considering they share a support with each other and Mist, Boyd is taking a bit of a hit. Brom isn't the best character in the world, but he's playable. Boyd's support with him edges out slightly over the Neph support, but it's rather close. The Zihark support is faster and just might steal the A support.

Later, Titania will need a Silver weapon to one round things that Boyd is one rounding with Iron weapons. But money isn't quite slim enough to limit that.

Skills? Neither starts with anything useful. Boyd's can be a bit detrimental. Titania's would be better if it had a higher activation rate.

If you spread around BEXP equally, she can get at least a few levels in with the Knight Ward and some extra speed. You get enough to afford 700 per unit, after all. She's also a decent candidate to hold it later in the game, after she hits 20/10, with some of the worst defense of all the units that can use it, a small need for some speed ups, and it can't hurt her res.

In summary:

Titania pros

-Incredible utility before chapter 11

-Similar offense up until Boyd's promotion

-Better defensively for the entire game

-WTA most of the game

-Better support options by a slim margin

-Better Weapon levels

-Better movement

-Move again

-A better starting skill, for what that is worth

-Knight Ward

Titania cons

-Weakness to the rare Halberd

-Lackluster strength

-Barely average everything else at 20/20

So I guess it's your go.

Edit: I corrected a mistake here and there. Not sure if I fixed them all, but nothing else was too big when I looked it over that it can't wait.

Edited November 12, 2008 by bunny

[Tino]

Ug... Sorry for the huge-ass delay.

Titania is around most of the game, as is Boyd.

Indeed. Both Titania and Boyd are characters that are around for pretty much the entire game. And well, their primary difference in the beginning is their level. Boyd however, doesn't need any more babying than any other character, while he still ends up quite exceptional.

Not to mention that Boyd is pretty much irreplacable later in the game, since he has the best offense of all your characters; he's only matched by/beaten by Largo, who joins uber late and the Laguz Royals, which you have for a whopping 25-50% of a chapter. And with later on, I mean somewhere close after chapter 12, or possibly even earlier. Titania's earlygame is irreplacable, true, but her earlygame utility doesn't last quite as long as you might think. But no matter what, Boyd is irreplacable for a lot longer than Titania.

So Boyd doesn't need too many chapters to become your best offensive unit. In fact, this is very early. I said chapter 12, but it's probably quite a bit earlier, due to that sexy 60% strength growth as well as 45% speed. Titania is indeed better at killing things in the very early chapters, true. However, Titania likely won't get any kills unless it's absolutely necessary or if the enemy is a boss, since gaining 1 exp per kill is massive fail. That's the equivalent of just getting attacked by something, so she's quite a bit better for doing that and killing bosses, since Boyd, for example, gains 36 exp for two-rounding an enemy (10 exp for damaging a level 1 enemy at base level, and 26 exp for killing that same enemy).

Now, I expect some kind of attack on him being weighed down a lot earlygame due to axes being so incredibly heavy as well. True, he gets weighed down. And indeed, he won't be doubling stuff... or will he? Let's take a closer look.

L3 Iron Axe Boyd: 8 Str, 7 Spd --> 5 AS

Chapter 2 enemies have 0-1 AS, aside of the Myrmidons, so Boyd will be able to be massive pwnage in chapter 2 due to being able to double.

Boyd's offense will thus be far, far superior to anyone else's a long time before Largo or one of the Laguz Royals joins, and Boyd will even be superior to Largo once Largo joins due to being at a very high level already due to that uber sexy offense.

L27 Largo: 21 Atk, 20 AS, 48 Hit, 25 Crit

L29 Boyd: 25 Atk, 19 AS, 44 Hit, 9 Crit

Then Boyd also has Hit and Atk boosting supports, which in the end will give at least 12 Hit and 2 Atk, which actually gives Boyd 27 Atk and 56 Hit, and he'll double and thus one-round everything anyway, so Boyd's 6 Atk + 8 Hit + Bows > Largo's 16 Crit. He's indeed undeniably the best offensive unit. And if this wasn't enough, let's do another comparison.

L32 Largo: 25 Atk, 22 AS, 53 Hit, 26 Crit

L33 Boyd: 29 Atk, 21 AS, 61 Hit, 10 Crit

Boyd is still easily superior.

L40 Largo: 29 Atk, 26 AS, 56 Hit, 27 Crit

L40 Boyd: 31 Atk, 23 AS, 68 Hit, 12 Crit

I'll be honest and say that it's actually debatable here... Or is it not? The highest level enemy units have the following base AS scores.

L15 Sniper: 19 AS

L7 Berserker: 17 AS

L13 Cat: 20 AS

L15 Warrior: 18 AS

L16 General: 11 AS

L13 Sage: 19 AS

L17 Swordmaster: 24 AS

L15 Bishop: 15 AS

L15 Halberdier: 17 AS

L9 Thief: 14 AS

L16 Tiger: 19 AS

L16 Paladin: 19 AS

L17 Wyvern Lord: 16 AS

So... Largo is superior against one enemy, while Boyd is superior against 12. Lol. Boyd is still superior to Largo in almost every way. Not to mention that Largo might have some problems hitting things.

So even if Boyd would be replacable at very end of the game, then Titania is still replacable as early as chapter 13 or 14 or something. So Boyd is irreplacable for 18-ish chapters, while Titania is for 13-14. Massive points for Boyd right there.

Being a prepromote she won't see much use early on offensively, but she'll have the best stats defensively for most of her first 10 chapters, and will blockade a number of points.

True, Titania indeed has superior earlygame durability. That's undeniable. And I also didn't expect you to not bring up our characters at base level. And indeed, Titania completely crushes Boyd there. Yeah, she could indeed solo the first ten chapters, while Boyd can't. Not that it matters anything, but I just felt like bringing that up.

However, like I said before, Titania isn't going to be killing a lot of things due to that pitiful exp gain. Boyd gains at least 8 times as much exp for killing something than Titania. Massive win. I've already explained this above, so I won't type it all up again.

Whether you plan to use her or not, she'll be of great importance in the early chapters, especially if the goal of the chapter isn't to kill everything.

Of course we assume she's being used. We're debating her. The same goes for Boyd. Since we're debating him, we're assuming he's being used, whether it's in the same playthrough we use Titania or not.

She can weaken bosses as well, though you have to be careful she doesn't kill them.

Er... you're suggesting the wrong thing entirely. Titania is the only one who's killing bosses in the early chapters, so she's obviously the best for actually killing them. Killing them in 1 turn > killing them in 3 turns and thus gaining less BEXP.

In reality, if you don't plan on killing everything in the chapter anyway, then you can actually allow her to kill some of the enemies coming toward her.

You're contradicting yourself a lot here. You don't kill everything, so you kill the remaining enemies with Titania? That's not exactly my defenition of "not killing everything", and I don't think that's anyone's. Titania will be killing bosses, an enemy here and there if someone is at the risk of dying, and that's everything she'll be doing when it comes to killing things.

There's still a point where you'll be weakening other units for a few chapters, but it's not a complete loss.

Care to explain what you're trying to say here?

After her first ten or so chapters of running around as a wall, the other characters will probably start to make her seem a bit weak stat wise.

If you don't use her for anything, then that's indeed the case. I realize I'm now defending Titania a bit, but in all honesty, why wouldn't you use Titania, who is arguably the best for 13-14 chapters? Are you just going to neglect her because of her being superior to your other characters? Fail.

While it's a bit early to go wild and have Titania raping everyone, but she's fairly safe to use after the desert chapter or when people hit level 15.

If you're saying that Boyd will only be L15 after chapter 15, then please rethink your statement. Boyd has wtfmassive offense and will be killing pretty much everything. He'll thus gain a fuckton of exp. He'll easily be promoted in chapter 16.

L21 Boyd: 46 HP, 20 Atk, 40 Hit, 15 AS, 12 Def, 7 Res, 40 Avo

L25 Titania: 36 HP, 14 Atk, 43 Hit, 16 AS, 13 Def, 9 Res, 45 Avo

That's just them with their base L21 and L25 stats. As you see, Boyd has massive offensive leads. 6 Atk is huge, since that's 12 damage on a double attack. Boyd also has a massive HP lead, while Titania has a grand total of 1 Def. Who's durability is superior?

31 Atk required to 2HKO Titania.

25 Atk required to 3HKO Titania.

22 Atk required to 4HKO Titania.

21 Atk required to 5HKO Titania.

19 Atk required to 6HKO Titania.

35 Atk required to 2HKO Boyd.

28 Atk required to 3HKO Boyd.

24 Atk required to 4HKO Boyd.

22 Atk required to 5HKO Boyd.

18 Atk required to 6HKO Boyd.

Boyd gets beaten when it comes to 6HKOs or better... in other words, Boyd isn't going to die against 14-18 Atk enemies, while Titania isn't either. Against 18+ Atk enemies, though, Boyd is suddenly superior, and 18 Atk enemies start appearing from as early on as chapter 16.

L15 Myrmidon: 20 Atk

L15 Fighter: 24 Atk

L16 Knight: 23 Atk

L3 Sniper: 19 Atk

L14 Soldier: 20 Atk

See? Boyd is in no way inferior to Titania when it comes to durability. In fact, he's superior. The Myrmidon 6HKOs Titania and Boyd. The Fighter 4HKOs Titania and 4HKOs Titania. The Knight 4HKOs Titania and 5HKOs Boyd. The Sniper 6HKOs both Titania and Boyd. The Soldiers 6HKOs both Titania and Boy das well. Woot for Boyd being superior... although it's only a very, very tiny bit.

A big point for her is her ability to take on sword users as well. She picks up either a damage lead or a hit lead against Boyd.

Luckily Boyd has bows as well. These nice things give him a good Hit boost against sword users, but also guarantee a one-round against wyverns, of which there are quite a lot later in the game. Not to mention that Boyd can also one-round these nasty Bird Laguz with his bows.

"Taking on" sword users, fliers AND Bird Laguz >>> "taking on" sword users.

Up until Boyd promotes, he's not doing much to her. She's not leveling as fast as Boyd, but his HP caps out by level 16 and defensively he's not really improving for the next five chapters. She has rather amazing weapon levels that'll carry her fairly well offensively, though.

Yes, weapon levels are going to help her increase her offense <_<

It's Atk, AS and Hit that matter (as well as Crit, to a lesser extent) and some skills, but neither Titania nor Boyd has a good skill, although Boyd's Tempest can work in his advantage, while Titania's skill almost never activates and also doesn't help her one-round, especially earlygame.

In fact, she can pick up that Silver axe if she wants to surpass him in DMG. She'll still have better hit, too. And after 2-3 levels, she only loses 1 AS.

And Boyd can't? Before he promotes, indeed, he can't use the Silver Axe, but soon after he promotes, he'll be able to use it, as well as bows.

Then there's promotion. Boyd is looking forward to it, as it really helps him pick up against her. After promotion, he really does beat her in most other stats for the rest of the game, even with her level lead.

Indeed. Thanks for confirming that Boyd is superior.

Supports. Boyd and Titania support each other. It's a bad support though, so that's out. Titania is stealing Mist from Boyd. Titania has Ike, but that's really slow and not his best option. Boyd has Brom,

Mist supports some awesome characters. Jill is one of them. It's a uber fast support that gives some great bonuses to Mist (since she definitely wants Atk and she gains Def from her B support) and they can keep up easily due to both character being mounted.

Then there's Rolf and Boyd, who are indeed out of question due to the partner in question sucking hard (Rolf) or the support being very slow (Boyd).

Then it's between Titania and Mordecai. Both are equally fast, although B Titania finishes one chapter earlier. However, 1 Atk > 5 Hit, so Mist prefers Mordecai over Titania. So both Titania and Boyd have one option less to choose from.

Let's continue with Titania's supports first.

She supports Ike. This support is, indeed, incredibly slow and even though it starts in chapter 1, it doesn't finish until chapter 26. And he prefers Oscar as a support anyway, since it's uber fast and gives massive Avo. 30 Avo? Yes please. And B Soren gives 15 Avo as well. 45 additional Avo is a lot of ownage, so he likes A Oscar/B Soren a lot better than A/B Titania with A/B something else, due to Titania giving fail boosts to Ike (lolHit and 1 Atk).

Then there's Rhys, who is a rather bad character, actually. He's indeed good earlygame, being the only available healer. Rhys also has lollable AS (although he won't get doubled very frequently), will get weighed down a lot, has very low HP, lollable Avo due to his AS, and very, very pitiful Def. His durability is so incredibly bad that he's not worth it. He can indeed attack, but he isn't doubling shit, and thus not killing shit. Not being able to kill shit = massive shit.

I'll get to Boyd x Titania later.

Boyd's supports are next.

He indeed doesn't get Mist, as explained above.

Then there's Brom, of who I have explained is a pretty good character. Let's take a look at this support. Brom supports Nephenee and Zihark, aside of Boyd. Zihark has A Muarim already, so the A support is still open for Boyd. Between Boyd and Nephenee, Boyd is easily superior since 2 Atk > 7 Avo, which Brom doesn't need at all. Boyd can indeed grab that A support with Brom.

Ulki fails.

That means there's B Titania left for him. Yayz. That means Boyd has A Brom/B Titania while Titania has B Boyd. Titania only benefits the character I'm defending, which is a strike against her. Boyd defends a fat farmer, too, which is undeniably incredibly awesome.

Later, Titania will need a Silver weapon to one round things that Boyd is one rounding with Iron weapons. But money isn't quite slim enough to limit that.

No matter how you look at it, using less resources (money) > using a lot of resources (silver = expensive). And even with Silver, Titania isn't going to be killing everything, since her Str is pretty low. 21 Atk + 16 from silver + 1 from B Boyd = 38 Atk with an axe, or 37 with a lance, which isn't too high. Titania has 24 AS, so she doubles everything but Swordmasters. And let's do a direct comparison to Boyd. He doubles everything but Cats and Swordmasters, and has 49 Atk with an axe, 46 with a bow.

Let's get back to those enemies I've listed before.

L15 Sniper: 37 HP/16 Def, both one-round.

L7 Berserker: 44 HP/13 Def, both one-round.

L13 Cat: 45 HP/20 Def, both two-round.

L15 Warrior: 53 HP/15 Def, Titania two-rounds while Boyd one-rounds.

L16 General: 44 HP/28 Def, Titania two-rounds while Boyd one-rounds.

L13 Sage: 34 HP/12 Def, both one-round.

L17 Swordmaster: 41 HP/13 Def, both one-round.

L15 Bishop: 36 HP/7 Def, both one-round.

L15 Halberdier: 44 HP/18 Def, both one-round.

L16 Tiger: 49 HP/23 Def, Titania two-rounds while Boyd one-rounds.

L16 Paladin: 42 HP/21 Def, Titania two-rounds while Boyd one-rounds.

L17 Wyvern Lord: 47 Def/26 Def, Titania two-rounds while Boyd one-rounds.

Boyd's offense is superior against the most common enemies, namely Paladins, Wyvern Lords, Generals and Warriors, while Titania is never ever superior.

Skills? Neither starts with anything useful. Boyd's can be a bit detrimental. Titania's would be better if it had a higher activation rate.

Boyd's can also be beneficial, making him even more superior to Titania. Boyd's Tempest won't ever make him worse than Titania, though.

If you spread around BEXP equally, she can get at least a few levels in with the Knight Ward and some extra speed. You get enough to afford 700 per unit, after all. She's also a decent candidate to hold it later in the game, after she hits 20/10, with some of the worst defense of all the units that can use it, a small need for some speed ups, and it can't hurt her res.

It won't help her at all, actually, since she's not going to be doubling anything more endgame, since she'll never be able to reach 28 AS. The Def and Res boost might just as well go to Nephenee or Devdan, or Astrid. Or how about Kieran? Makalov? Why not Geoffrey? She's definitely not guaranteed to get it, since others benefit from it just as much, if not more.