How about Pokemon Legends: Mew?

[Lord_Brand]

Even though Legends: Arceus hasn't released yet, my creative spark has ignited and I'm already thinking about a prospective future installment of the Legends series set in the Kanto region decades before Red/Blue and their remakes.

The protagonists resemble Red and Leaf/Green, and are implied to be their ancestors. A young Samuel Oak is your primary rival. He is friends with a ghost-loving girl from Lavendar Town named Agatha.

In this era, Kanto is less technologically developed but is showing signs of progress such as the Power Plant being built north of Lavendar Town and Dr. Fuji setting up a laboratory on Cinnabar. Silph Co. is of particular note as the main provider of technological development in the region. However, a second company, Rocket Industries, is giving them competition (and quite possibly trouble).

New to Legends: Mew are Kantonian variants of Pokemon introduced in other generations, and/or new evolutions. Certain species like Grimer, Koffing, Magnemite, and Porygon are absent as Kanto has yet to develop technologically to the point where such Pokemon could exist due to them being incidental byproducts or deliberate creations of industry and technology. However, there could be progenitors of Grimer and Koffing that would explain how sludge and smog become animate (namely, by mixing with artificial toxic waste and pollution to become the species seen today). Certain species like Farfetch'd and Lapras are more common, in contrast to how rare they've become by the present day due to poaching and such. Several Gen II Pokemon that originally only appeared in Kanto could also be present, due to Kanto and Johto being neighbors.

And of course, the name should indicate the importance of Mew to the plot. A team of researchers lead by Fuji himself are planning an expedition to a faraway island in search of a rare and elusive Pokemon said to be dwelling in a jungle there.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Lord_Brand

[vanguard333]

Interesting. Usually, when I see someone suggest another Pokémon Legends game that could be made after Arceus, it's someone suggesting a game set in Unova and focused on Kyerum. This is the first time I've seen someone suggest past-Kanto.

 

4 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

New to Legends: Mew are Kantonian variants of Pokemon introduced in other generations. Certain species like Grimer, Koffing, Magnemite, and Porygon are absent as Kanto has yet to develop technologically to the point where such Pokemon could exist due to them being incidental byproducts or deliberate creations of industry and technology. However, there could be progenitors of Grimer and Koffing that would explain how sludge and smog become animate (namely, by mixing with artificial toxic waste and pollution to become the species seen today).

Koffing and Magnemite exist at this point; in Legends Arceus, there's a chimney designed to look like Galarian Weezing, and magnemite are shown to exist in the wild.

[Lord_Brand]

We don't know exactly how far back Legends Arceus takes place, unless I missed an announcement otherwise. But even so, I did suggest there could be progenitors to the Grimer and Koffing species; maybe living piles of naturally-occurring slime and gas that just so happen to combine disturbingly well with waste and pollution, essentially making Grimer and Koffing mutant species. Though I did suggest that the Power Plant was being built, so I guess it's possible Grimer, Koffing, and Magnemite could appear, but maybe in smaller numbers. What about Porygon, though?

[vanguard333]

8 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

We don't know exactly how far back Legends Arceus takes place, unless I missed an announcement otherwise. But even so, I did suggest there could be progenitors to the Grimer and Koffing species; maybe living piles of naturally-occurring slime and gas that just so happen to combine disturbingly well with waste and pollution, essentially making Grimer and Koffing mutant species. Though I did suggest that the Power Plant was being built, so I guess it's possible Grimer, Koffing, and Magnemite could appear, but maybe in smaller numbers. What about Porygon, though?

I will admit that they haven't stated exactly how far back Legends Arceus takes place, but it's far back enough that one of the characters is Professor Rowan's ancestor. In other words, it takes place long before Rowan is even born, while the game you're suggesting is one where Professor Oak is a kid.

I doubt Porygon would exist yet unless there are already advanced enough computers. The rest could exist.

[Use the Falchion]

I wouldn't mind seeing a Legends Mew game! But I would prefer the protagonists to not look like Red/Blue or be the ancestor of them in any way. It annoys me already that this is the case for PLA's protagonist. 

The other thing I'd mention is that I'm not sure I want to revisit Kanto so soon. I think another region, like Unova, Kalos, Hoenn (which I may or may not have already planned out in my mind), or even Alola would be more appealing to me right now. It feels like we were just in Kanto due to the Let's Go remakes, and I'm sure we'll visit the region again if the Johto games get the same treatment. So I say either go for a region that won't have a spin-off for a while (Unova, Kalos, Alola) or has an interesting world/region/biomes or background/lore to explore (Hoenn, Alola). 

But that's just me. I don't mind the idea of Pokemon Legends: Mew, and would someday really enjoy seeing it. ...just not as the next Pokemon Legends installment. 

[henrymidfields]

I wouldn't mind a Colonial Unova that deals with the changing of the guards alongside the Pokemon version of the American Revolution. Say, Galarian knights upholding the colonial government of Galar vs the Unovan republicans who wants to usher the land into a new age. Or a Revolutionary Kalos with similar themes.

Or a more modern equivalent would feature the following:

A Pokemon version of the Vietnam War featuring Lt Surge and the more conservative generation who upholds the 50s American way vs the more anti-establishment hippies and protestors who questions the establishment's narratives (including "capitalism is good", "Unova can do no wrong" etc) and brings the whole patriotism concept into question. And Zekrom vs Reshiram are the theme legends.

Or, a Kalosian version of the above events, featuring the equivalent of the May Revolution of 1968, and brings the question of respect within society and family. And Xerneas (symbolizing rebirth) vs Yveltal (death) are the Legends.

Edited February 15, 2022 by henrymidfields

[vanguard333]

I'm not sure how they can do a Legends game set in another region, as no other region has Pokémon with powers over time, so how is the protagonist going to end up in the past?

[Lord_Brand]

3 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

I'm not sure how they can do a Legends game set in another region, as no other region has Pokémon with powers over time, so how is the protagonist going to end up in the past?

Celebi: Am I a joke to you?

To be fair, we didn't know that detail when PLA was first revealed. For all we knew, the protagonists were the ancestors of Dawn and Lucas rather than Dawn and Lucas themselves. Future Legends titles could go the ancestor route instead.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Lord_Brand

[vanguard333]

9 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

Celebi: Am I a joke to you?

To be fair, we didn't know that detail when PLA was first revealed. For all we knew, the protagonists were the ancestors of Dawn and Lucas rather than Dawn and Lucas themselves. Future Legends titles could go the ancestor route instead.

I forgot about Celebi... and this is the first I'm hearing about Celebi having time powers.

Yeah, I know; I was just making a joke about that new bit of info. They could easily go the ancestor route.

I don't think Rei/Akari are supposed to be Lucas/Dawn, if only because their names are Rei/Akari. But that might be because whichever one the player doesn't pick is actually from the past.

[Lord_Brand]

2 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

I forgot about Celebi... and this is the first I'm hearing about Celebi having time powers.

They mention its ability to travel across time in several of its Pokedex entries and in HGSS there's an actual event where Celebi brings the player back in time to defeat Giovanni. Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time and Darkness features a shiny Celebi as a supporting protagonist whose time travel powers play a crucial role in the plot. Not to mention its species is the Time Travel Pokemon. :P

Celebi's Bulbapedia page can fill you in on all its time travel shenanigans.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Lord_Brand

[vanguard333]

34 minutes ago, Lord_Brand said:

They mention its ability to travel across time in several of its Pokedex entries and in HGSS there's an actual event where Celebi brings the player back in time to defeat Giovanni. Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time and Darkness features a shiny Celebi as a supporting protagonist whose time travel powers play a crucial role in the plot. Not to mention its species is the Time Travel Pokemon. 😛

Celebi's Bulbapedia page can fill you in on all its time travel shenanigans.

I see. I never heard about Celebi's time travel because it's a gen 2 Pokemon (I never played gen 2) that I was never very interested in obtaining and I never played Mystery Dungeon.

 

Anyway, what did you think of the rest of what I said?

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

Huh, did we start discussing this one in a different thread? I'm remembering putting some ideas out there.

For one, I'm definitely on board with more Pokemon games set in the past! Obviously, what you're proposing is far closer (in terms of timing) to the original RBY, than Legends Arceus is to DPPt. That's not a problem, but it changes their narrative options.

I like the idea of "Rocket Industries" being a rival company to Silph Co. Perhaps "Madame Boss", Giovanni's mother and the prior Team Rocket Leader (per the anime), could be another rival who winds up Interning at Rocket Industries? I dunno if Rocket Industries should play the "clear bad guys" - I think it'd be more interesting if they had a role like Aether Foundation in SM.

As the region goes, I'd absolutely like to see it bring Kanto and Johto together. Johto may not have changed as much, but the idea of meeting a young Kurt or Pryce is an enticing one. Plus, we'd get dungeons like Ice Path and Ilex Forest, in full 3D! And as Hisui/Sinnoh centers on Mount Coronet, this game could center around Mount Silver.

[Lord_Brand]

On 2/16/2022 at 11:33 AM, vanguard333 said:

I see. I never heard about Celebi's time travel because it's a gen 2 Pokemon (I never played gen 2) that I was never very interested in obtaining and I never played Mystery Dungeon.

Anyway, what did you think of the rest of what I said?

I see.

Don't have much to say on that. I agree.

5 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Huh, did we start discussing this one in a different thread? I'm remembering putting some ideas out there.

For one, I'm definitely on board with more Pokemon games set in the past! Obviously, what you're proposing is far closer (in terms of timing) to the original RBY, than Legends Arceus is to DPPt. That's not a problem, but it changes their narrative options.

I like the idea of "Rocket Industries" being a rival company to Silph Co. Perhaps "Madame Boss", Giovanni's mother and the prior Team Rocket Leader (per the anime), could be another rival who winds up Interning at Rocket Industries? I dunno if Rocket Industries should play the "clear bad guys" - I think it'd be more interesting if they had a role like Aether Foundation in SM.

As the region goes, I'd absolutely like to see it bring Kanto and Johto together. Johto may not have changed as much, but the idea of meeting a young Kurt or Pryce is an enticing one. Plus, we'd get dungeons like Ice Path and Ilex Forest, in full 3D! And as Hisui/Sinnoh centers on Mount Coronet, this game could center around Mount Silver.

I think so. I fact, I think our conversation is what sparked the idea.

Maybe there is a villain Team and they have relations with Rocket Industries? Ooh, how about this: The female leader of the Team is secretly the wife of Rocket Industries' CEO (or said wife is secretly the leader of the Team), and their son is named Giovanni. How's that for some tasty foreshadowing?

Mount Silver sounds like a good focal point. That's where the heroes of Gen I and II have their fated battle. Hmm...that gives me more ideas. Maybe we see the parents of both Red and Ethan (Gold)? There could also be a Kris lookalike.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

On 2/18/2022 at 1:25 AM, Lord_Brand said:

Maybe there is a villain Team and they have relations with Rocket Industries? Ooh, how about this: The female leader of the Team is secretly the wife of Rocket Industries' CEO (or said wife is secretly the leader of the Team), and their son is named Giovanni. How's that for some tasty foreshadowing?

Mount Silver sounds like a good focal point. That's where the heroes of Gen I and II have their fated battle. Hmm...that gives me more ideas. Maybe we see the parents of both Red and Ethan (Gold)? There could also be a Kris lookalike.

I'm kinda concerned about the timing here. Assuming Samuel Oak is in the 11-15 age range, then we're looking at about 50 years in the past. I doubt Giovanni would even be born by then, and we probably wouldn't see the parents of any of the player characters (grandparents, maybe?).

I was thinking that Rocket Industries could "evolve" into Team Rocket. Maybe the player character in Legends: Mew exposes their shady business dealings, and forces them "underground"? Hence paving the way for the mafia/yakuza-like Team Rocket we know and love.

[vanguard333]

One problem I can potentially see with this idea is that the explanation in Legends Arceus for the wide open areas and for Pokémon having different reactions to the player is that the area is a wilderness; a frontier region. Kanto, especially in a time when Oak is alive, would already be very urban and the Pokémon would probably already be very used to humans. The idea could work, but there would be a number of added complexities.

[Lord_Brand]

46 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I'm kinda concerned about the timing here. Assuming Samuel Oak is in the 11-15 age range, then we're looking at about 50 years in the past. I doubt Giovanni would even be born by then, and we probably wouldn't see the parents of any of the player characters (grandparents, maybe?).

I was thinking that Rocket Industries could "evolve" into Team Rocket. Maybe the player character in Legends: Mew exposes their shady business dealings, and forces them "underground"? Hence paving the way for the mafia/yakuza-like Team Rocket we know and love.

Grandparents could work. The Yakuza in Japan have their hands in a lot of businesses, so it'd make sense if Team Rocket's predecessor was involved with funding and running Rocket Industries from the shadows. They could also be involved with Fuji and Blaine's research project on Cinnabar.

Ooh, here's an idea - maybe Legends: Mew chronicles the birth of Mewtwo!? Like, your protagonist helps Fuji and Blaine find Mew or at least a sample of its DNA, leading to the creation of Mewtwo, which you battle as the endgame boss of the main storyline. Upon being defeated, Mewtwo flies away to parts unknown. At some point, Rocket Industries' ties to Team X (X being a placeholder, here) is exposed, forcing the company to close and leading to its remaining faculty joining up with Team X to form Team Rocket.

I mean, yeah, I can see the merit of the explanation that Rocket Industries simply became Team Rocket after their public fall from grace, but having them start out as two separate entities is interesting.

Just now, vanguard333 said:

One problem I can potentially see with this idea is that the explanation in Legends Arceus for the wide open areas and for Pokémon having different reactions to the player is that the area is a wilderness; a frontier region. Kanto, especially in a time when Oak is alive, would already be very urban and the Pokémon would probably already be very used to humans. The idea could work, but there would be a number of added complexities.

They can still do wide-open areas even with an urban backdrop. Heck, your classic sandbox takes place in large, sprawling cities - just look at Spider-Man and Grand Theft Auto.

And really, Mew is the perfect followup to Arceus. Until Arceus came along, Mew was presumed the progenitor of all Pokemon due to having the DNA of every single species in its body (which logically would include Arceus). You know how there are stories featuring urban legends like Sasquatch and the Chupacabra? Maybe it could be a bit like that, where the legend in question - Mew - is reported but never confirmed? Attempts to photograph it fail because of a shield it produces that distorts photos (a little callback to Pokemon Snap, there).

Not to mention, the more developed setting itself would provide a nice contrast with that of Hisui. Not to mention there's Johto to serve as a second region. Though maybe the game could be set in a sort of "combined" region of Kanto and Johto? Although, Johto could also make for some good DLC material.

[vanguard333]

12 minutes ago, Lord_Brand said:

They can still do wide-open areas even with an urban backdrop. Heck, your classic sandbox takes place in large, sprawling cities - just look at Spider-Man and Grand Theft Auto.

And really, Mew is the perfect followup to Arceus. Until Arceus came along, Mew was presumed the progenitor of all Pokemon due to having the DNA of every single species in its body (which logically would include Arceus). You know how there are stories featuring urban legends like Sasquatch and the Chupacabra? Maybe it could be a bit like that, where the legend in question - Mew - is reported but never confirmed? Attempts to photograph it fail because of a shield it produces that distorts photos (a little callback to Pokemon Snap, there).

Not to mention, the more developed setting itself would provide a nice contrast with that of Hisui. Not to mention there's Johto to serve as a second region. Though maybe the game could be set in a sort of "combined" region of Kanto and Johto? Although, Johto could also make for some good DLC material.

I didn't say that they couldn't; just that it's a lot easier to create a selection of open wildernesses. Since the cities aren't supposed to have wild Pokemon in them, I could see it with multiple hub cities, but then they'd probably have to scrap the Monster Hunter-like expedition gameplay loop and replace it with something better-suited for a game with multiple cities.

[Lord_Brand]

1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

I didn't say that they couldn't; just that it's a lot easier to create a selection of open wildernesses. Since the cities aren't supposed to have wild Pokemon in them, I could see it with multiple hub cities, but then they'd probably have to scrap the Monster Hunter-like expedition gameplay loop and replace it with something better-suited for a game with multiple cities.

More Trainer battles, perhaps? Gyms could be a lot more interesting with 3D interaction as a component. Each one could test a "Trainer skill", such as climbing, swimming, or acrobatics. Or emphasize cooperation between Trainer and Pokemon, like riding a water type through a course. Basically like a dog agility show but with Pokemon.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

19 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

Grandparents could work. The Yakuza in Japan have their hands in a lot of businesses, so it'd make sense if Team Rocket's predecessor was involved with funding and running Rocket Industries from the shadows. They could also be involved with Fuji and Blaine's research project on Cinnabar.

Ooh, here's an idea - maybe Legends: Mew chronicles the birth of Mewtwo!? Like, your protagonist helps Fuji and Blaine find Mew or at least a sample of its DNA, leading to the creation of Mewtwo, which you battle as the endgame boss of the main storyline. Upon being defeated, Mewtwo flies away to parts unknown. At some point, Rocket Industries' ties to Team X (X being a placeholder, here) is exposed, forcing the company to close and leading to its remaining faculty joining up with Team X to form Team Rocket.

I mean, yeah, I can see the merit of the explanation that Rocket Industries simply became Team Rocket after their public fall from grace, but having them start out as two separate entities is interesting.

I'm liking these ideas! Hm... what if the game actually started out on Cinnabar Island? The Player Character, Blaine, and a girl named Juno all start out as interns at Rocket Industries. "Don Giovanni", Juno's grandfather, lives in the Pokemon Mansion and heads the company. Dr. Fuji, working at Rocket Industries, functions as the game's "professor" (if it's 50 years before RBY, I could see him being in his late 20s). He gives you each a Pokemon, and sends you various tasks on and around the island (which is now expanded to include grassy areas and a volcanic cave), and once those are finished, they send you all to mainland Kanto. There are a whole bunch of tasks to do - catch Wild Pokemon, grow Berry Trees, infiltrate Silph Co. to steal their plans for Porygon-Beta - but the most recurring missions relate to the legendary Pokemon, Mew. You travel around the region encountering it, but never capturing it. Eventually, Juno captures it. Just as you're starting to have your doubts, she hands Mew over to Rocket Industries. Working together with Blaine and a young Samuel Oak, you manage to free Mew, but not before Dr. Fuji has created Mewtwo. Eventually, Dr. Fuji leaves the company to atone for his sins, while Juno becomes the new leader of the now-underground Team Rocket, as well as mother to Giovanni.

How's that sound? I've generally been skeptical of fans who've asked for "a game where you play as Team Rocket", but honestly, I think this sort of framing could work.

[Lord_Brand]

24 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I'm liking these ideas! Hm... what if the game actually started out on Cinnabar Island? The Player Character, Blaine, and a girl named Juno all start out as interns at Rocket Industries. "Don Giovanni", Juno's grandfather, lives in the Pokemon Mansion and heads the company. Dr. Fuji, working at Rocket Industries, functions as the game's "professor" (if it's 50 years before RBY, I could see him being in his late 20s). He gives you each a Pokemon, and sends you various tasks on and around the island (which is now expanded to include grassy areas and a volcanic cave), and once those are finished, they send you all to mainland Kanto. There are a whole bunch of tasks to do - catch Wild Pokemon, grow Berry Trees, infiltrate Silph Co. to steal their plans for Porygon-Beta - but the most recurring missions relate to the legendary Pokemon, Mew. You travel around the region encountering it, but never capturing it. Eventually, Juno captures it. Just as you're starting to have your doubts, she hands Mew over to Rocket Industries. Working together with Blaine and a young Samuel Oak, you manage to free Mew, but not before Dr. Fuji has created Mewtwo. Eventually, Dr. Fuji leaves the company to atone for his sins, while Juno becomes the new leader of the now-underground Team Rocket, as well as mother to Giovanni.

How's that sound? I've generally been skeptical of fans who've asked for "a game where you play as Team Rocket", but honestly, I think this sort of framing could work.

Cinnabar as the starting locale? Interesting idea! And yeah, that'd be a clever way to have the player technically working for Team Rocket without knowing it. I like the idea of the mansion belonging to Giovanni's grandfather, though being the ancestral home of Blaine would work too.

And are you suggesting Blaine would be one of your rivals? Thing is, he'd probably be close to the same age as Fuji, so he might be a bit old for that. But he and Juno could appear as colleagues to Fuji. I still like the idea of a young Samuel Oak being your rival as a call forward to his future grandson. Although, what if Samuel's own gramps is the Professor who gives you your starter? That way there's still a Professor Oak.

I get images of Cinnabar being effectively the Great Plateau of the game, a smaller restricted area where you learn the basics before being let loose into the greater game overworld.

I imagine Pallet Town - or the land that becomes said town - would be the first point of contact with mainland Kanto.

Viridian City could be the base of operations for Rocket Industries, while Saffron of course is where Silph Co. is setting up their main venue. The other major cities - Pewter, Cerulean, Vermilion, Celadon, and Fuschia - are battlegrounds of sorts between the two corporate giants.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Lord_Brand

[vanguard333]

One thing I would like to see from the next Legends game would be Pokémon that do more than just waddle around a small part of the area or hide in a tree. I'd like to see Pokémon that hide in ceilings, migratory swarms that roam the area map quickly in a large group (like a school of fish or a swarm of bugs or flock of birds), maybe legendaries that challenge the player to trials that utilize the gameplay. Stuff like that.

For instance, the Sword & Shield DLC had the player chase the legendary birds in the Wild Area; why not do something like that with the bird legendaries again if the next Legends game were to take place in Kanto?