How I would have done Egg Groups

[Lord_Brand]

The way Pokemon implemented Egg Groups doesn't completely sit well with me. I get that there's some logic being followed, but there are also times when that logic fails. First, I'll go over each group and give my opinion on it, then I'll post the Groups I would pick now, had I the opportunity to do so.

• Monster - This is the vaguest group, though the members are generally supposed to be dinosaur or kaiju-like. I feel it's a waste and could be removed.
• Water 1 - This group covers amphibious species, including aquatic mammals as well as frogs and toads. Not bad, but I don't like lumping different phylums together, as will become a recurring theme here.
• Bug - This one, I like. It covers the majority of arthropods, similar to the Bug Type. My only complaint is that it excludes certain crustacean species such as Krabby and Corphish.
• Flying - This group covers the majority of non-Bug species with wings, more specifically avian builds. That said, I'm not as fond of this one, as I feel bats breeding with birds is weird. This is one I'd split.
• Field - This group covers not only a good deal of mammals but a menagerie of other terrestrial species, which makes it the most generic and cop-out of all the groups. I would definitely split this one.
• Fairy - This group covers Pokemon that are considered to be fairy-like, including species that are small and cute like Pikachu as well as the majority of Fairy-types. Not bad, but I would remove some species from this group and put them into other groups as I feel this one should focus on fairy-like Pokemon specifically.
• Grass - Basically the plant group. Covers a lot of Grass-types, though not all of them. I don't mind it myself.
• Human-Like - Covers most of the anthro Pokemon, as well as not-human-but-not-quite-animal-either humanoids like the Machop line. Unlike the Field Group, this one works pretty well as a catch-all. I'd keep it.
• Water 3 - Why is this listed before Water 2? This group covers aquatic invertebrates, including crustaceans, cephalopods, and cnidarians (jellyfish). I'd like to group crustaceans with other athropods (unless they are to be split into more distinct groups like insect and arachnid), but the rest can stay here for the time being.
• Mineral - Covers species that are composed of inorganic matter such as rock or metal. I'm not sure how such beings are supposed to reproduce, but then I'm not sure how creatures made of rock could develop flexible bodies, so I'll let this one slide.
• Amorphous - Covers species of an indeterminate form, such as ghosts and blobs. Somehow, the Ralts line started out here despite clearly being human and fairy-like in form. I'd keep it, but I would probably move some species out of it.
• Water 2 - Again, why are they listing the Water groups out of order? This group covers chiefly fish-like Pokemon (as well as the odd octopus or cetacean...), which is the kind of consistency and cohesiveness I'm looking for. Another keeper.
• Ditto - An Egg Group for exactly one species that allows it to breed with any other Group, including the otherwise-unbreedable Gender Unknown group below. I'm not a fan. Ditto's a blob, why not lump it in with Amorpheous and make them able to breed with any other Group? Because Ditto's the only one that can shapeshift?
• Dragon - Covers dragon-like Pokemon, including many other kinds of reptiles such as snakes and crocodiles. A fine concept on paper, but I'd rather just call this the Reptile group, since dragons are usually reptilian anyway.
• No Eggs Discovered - I hate that this group exists. Not just because it keeps you from mating your Legendary Pokemon with non-Legendary species (never mind the fact most Legendaries are made genderless to begin with), but also for the fact Nidorina and Nidoqueen are stuck here for whatever reason. My least favorite group, bar none.
• Gender Unknown - A rather pointless Group, considering many of its members are genderless and thus can't normally breed anyway (which begs the question of how exactly a Ditto's supposed to breed with them assuming they don't have the equipment to breed in the first place).

Now for the groups I would pick:

• Human-Like - Covers Pokemon with bipedal humanoid physiques, including primates.
• Fairy - Covers species that resemble fantastical creatures such as fairies, elves, dwarves, and goblins.
• Fiend - Covers Pokemon who resemble imps, demons, or the like. Houndour's line would be a prime example. Darkrai and Impidimp could possibly count as well. You might even make a case for many Ghost-types such as the Gastly line and Giratina. This could be thought of as the dark counterpart to the Fairy group.
• Mammal - Covers most if not all mammals, including canines, felines, ungulates, rodents, lagomorphs, and bats (primates could be counted in Human-like instead). I could see this one being split, but it's probably not necessary.
• Reptile - Covers reptilian species, including lizards, snakes, turtles, crocodiles, dinosaurs, and dragons.
• Avian - Covers birds and only birds (despite the fact modern taxonomy considers birds to be part of the reptile category).
• Amphibian - Covers frogs, toads, newts, and salamanders.
• Fish - Covers fish, including eels, sharks, and rays.
• Bug - Covers arthropods, including insects, arachnids, crustaceans, chilopods, and diplopods.
• Plant - Covers plants and fungi (though if they had more fungal Pokemon, I'd push for a separate fungus or mushroom category).
• Mineral - Covers Pokemon made of stone or metal.
• Amorpheous - Covers gases, blobs, ghosts, that kind of stuff.
• Artificial - Covers Pokemon whose bodies strongly suggest artificial creation, such as Magnemite, Voltorb, and Porygon.
• Ditto - Covers, y'know, Ditto.

For legendaries, I would adopt one of two approaches:

1. If a legendary female is bred with a non-legendary male, the resulting egg hatches into the male's species instead of the female like usual. For example, if Zacian were to mate with a male Lycanroc, the resulting offspring would be a Rockruff.
2. Legendaries cannot breed with each other, barring specific and deliberate exceptions.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Lord_Brand

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

On 1/24/2022 at 2:58 AM, Lord_Brand said:

Now for the groups I would pick:

• Human-Like - Covers all Pokemon with bipedal physiques, including primates.
• Fairy - Covers species that resemble fantastical creatures such as fairies, elves, dwarves, and goblins.
• Fiend - Covers Pokemon who resemble imps, demons, or the like. Houndour's line would be a prime example. Darkrai and Impidimp could possibly count as well. You might even make a case for many Ghost-types such as the Gastly line and Giratina. This could be thought of as the dark counterpart to the Fairy group.
• Mammal - Covers most if not all mammals, including canines, felines, ungulates, rodents, lagomorphs, and bats (primates could be counted in Human-like instead). I could see this one being split, but it's probably not necessary.
• Reptile - Covers reptilian species, including lizards, snakes, turtles, crocodiles, dinosaurs, and dragons.
• Avian - Covers birds and only birds (despite the fact modern taxonomy considers birds to be part of the reptile category).
• Amphibian - Covers frogs, toads, newts, and salamanders.
• Fish - Covers fish, including eels, sharks, and rays.
• Bug - Covers arthropods, including insects, arachnids, crustaceans, chilopods, and diplopods.
• Plant - Covers plants and fungi (though if they had more fungal Pokemon, I'd push for a separate fungus or mushroom category).
• Mineral - Covers Pokemon made of stone or metal.
• Amorpheous - Covers gases, blobs, ghosts, that kind of stuff.
• Artificial - Covers Pokemon whose bodies strongly suggest artificial creation, such as Magnemite, Voltorb, and Porygon.
• Ditto - Covers, y'know, Ditto.

I like this model, generally speaking. Grouping Pokemon on a basis of what sort of creature they're based on just makes sense. And there's still obvious room for overlap, like the Rhyhorn line being Mammal (based on a Rhinoceros) and Mineral (being made of Rock). That said, the "bipedal" consideration for human-like definitely shouldn't be a hard-and-fast rule - Nidoking and Nidoqueen are bipedal, but putting their lines into a "human-like" category just seems off. Then again, Mons like Toxicroak and Hawlucha are currently considered "Human-Like", so maybe anything goes. Breaking up the confusing "Water 1/2/3" system is especially welcome.

The one big element I'd likely change, in principle, is the separation of "Fairy" and "Fiend" groups. I don't imagine either group as being especially large, and in fact I think they could be combined into a single "Mystical" group. Basically, it could be an expansion of the existing Fairy egg group, bringing in Mons such as Sableye and Mimikyu. Everything tied to myths and tall tales is welcome!

On 1/24/2022 at 2:58 AM, Lord_Brand said:

For legendaries, I would adopt one of two approaches:

1. If a legendary female is bred with a non-legendary male, the resulting egg hatches into the male's species instead of the female like usual. For example, if Zacian were to mate with a male Lycanroc, the resulting offspring would be a Rockruff.
2. Legendaries cannot breed with each other, barring specific and deliberate exceptions.

I would generally keep legendaries non-breeding. Although, I can appreciate the desirability of breedable legendaries from a competitive standpoint. That said, option (1) would make them non-reproducible, while still letting them potentially pass along egg moves. That has some potential, I suppose.

[Lord_Brand]

On 1/25/2022 at 3:27 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I like this model, generally speaking. Grouping Pokemon on a basis of what sort of creature they're based on just makes sense. And there's still obvious room for overlap, like the Rhyhorn line being Mammal (based on a Rhinoceros) and Mineral (being made of Rock). That said, the "bipedal" consideration for human-like definitely shouldn't be a hard-and-fast rule - Nidoking and Nidoqueen are bipedal, but putting their lines into a "human-like" category just seems off. Then again, Mons like Toxicroak and Hawlucha are currently considered "Human-Like", so maybe anything goes. Breaking up the confusing "Water 1/2/3" system is especially welcome.

The one big element I'd likely change, in principle, is the separation of "Fairy" and "Fiend" groups. I don't imagine either group as being especially large, and in fact I think they could be combined into a single "Mystical" group. Basically, it could be an expansion of the existing Fairy egg group, bringing in Mons such as Sableye and Mimikyu. Everything tied to myths and tall tales is welcome!

I wouldn't call them "Human-like" to begin with. I should revise my definition of "Human-like". Though I'm not sure which of my groups the Nidoran family would fit into.

I think the categories may be larger than first appears. These are the Pokemon I'd include in each:

Fairy

Spoiler

Only in this group

• Clefairy
• Clefable
• Jigglypuff
• Wigglytuff
• Chansey
• Blissey
• Togetic
• Togekiss
• Phione
• Manaphy
• Audino
• Flabebe
• Floette
• Florges
• Spritzee
• Aromatisse
• Swirlix
• Slurpuff
• Hatenna
• Hattrem
• Hatterene
• Indeedee

In this and another group

• Snubbull (Field)
• Granbull (Field)
• Mawile (Human-Like)
• Ralts (Human-Like)
• Kirlia (Human-Like)
• Gardevoir (Human-Like)
• Gallade (Human-Like)
• Roselia (Plant)
• Roserade (Plant)
• Castform (Amorphous)
• Cherubi (Plant)
• Cherrim (Plant)
• Cottonee (Plant)
• Whimsicott (Plant)
• Carbink (Mineral)
• Cutiefly (Bug)
• Ribombee (Bug)
• Milcery (Amorphous)
• Alcremie (Amorphous)
• Falinks (Mineral)
• Impidimp (Fiend)
• Morgrem (Fiend)
• Grimmsnarl (Fiend)

Fiend

Spoiler

• Gastly (Amorphous)
• Haunter (Amorphous)
• Gengar (Amorphous)
• Misdreavus (Amorphous)
• Mismagius (Amorphous)
• Houndour (Mammal)
• Houndoom (Mammal)
• Sneasel (Mammal)
• Weavile (Mammal)
• Seedot (Plant)
• Nuzleaf (Plant)
• Shiftry (Plant)
• Cacnea (Plant)
• Cacturne (Plant)
• Snorunt (Amorphous)
• Glalie (Amorphous)
• Froslass (Amorphous)
• Sableye (Human-Like)
• Spiritomb (Amorphous)
• Zorua (Mammal)
• Zoroark (Mammal)
• Pawniard (Human-Like)
• Bisharp (Human-Like)
• Deino (Reptile)
• Zweilous (Reptile)
• Hydreigon (Reptile)
• Inkay
• Malamar
• Impidimp (Fairy)
• Morgrem (Fairy)
• Grimmsnarl (Fairy)
• Morpeko (Mammal)

But I guess lumping them together could work. Maybe a "Spirit" group, referencing the Japanese concept of kami? I also need a group or groups for non-arthropod invertebrates like cephalopods, jellyfish, and starfish.

I'm thinking of adding an "Alien" category for creatures with otherwordly physiologies. I'm also considering an "Object" group for Pokemon based on inanimate objects like Litwick, Celfki, Honedge, etc.

I realize there is another purpose to the "Eggs Undiscovered" Group: Baby Pokemon. Though much like Legendaries, they could have some kind of indicator that they're unable to breed, like being "immature" (in the sense of being not fully physically developed yet).

Edited February 11, 2022 by Lord_Brand