Essence of [Element] Abilities

[ZanaLyrander]

The Essence of [Element] Abilities are simultaneously super useful and kinda frustrating. They dramatically improve some combat arts/spells by giving them a much better AoE, or making them last longer. It's a bit unclear if they also cause said combat arts/spells to hit harder, but Three Hopes is very vague about damage boosts in general so that's not a big surprise.

Yet as useful as these abilities are, they also feel somewhat restrictive. Each character who has one is sort of locked into a given element, and you feel obligated to take advantage of the ability and use combat arts/spells of that element, which in some cases, can really hamper your options. Essence of Ice in particular is frustrating given how rare Ice combat arts/spells are, with some weapon types simply not even having an ice combat art, and only two ice type spells existing (and Fimbulvetr's hitbox can be really janky at times, so the two spells you get aren't even super reliable).

This isn't even mentioning how these abilities make life difficult for the magic focused characters who don't learn any of the Essence of [Element] abilities, making some of their spells feel lackluster compared to the same spell cast by someone with the corresponding Essence. These characters do have some additional flexibility, since they can just equip whatever spells they want without worrying about type (and there are some fairly powerful spells that simply don't have an element in the first place like Agnea's Arrow), but it can still be frustrating.

All told, the abilities feel like a misstep to me. The empowered versions of each spell/combat art should have just been the default, so that anyone can use any spell they can learn at full power without worrying if it's the right element or not.

Edited July 12, 2022 by ZanaLyrander

[Fabulously Olivier]

I feel like as good as they are, all abilities have the opportunity cost of not having another ability instead. There's more than enough viable alternatives in this game if you want to use different skills. And it's frustrating that we don't even really know what these do.

[ZanaLyrander]

32 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

I feel like as good as they are, all abilities have the opportunity cost of not having another ability instead. There's more than enough viable alternatives in this game if you want to use different skills. And it's frustrating that we don't even really know what these do.

Indeed. There are plenty of units where I'm not using their Essence ability because there's no point, like Bernie. There are no ice type bow combat arts, so I don't bother equipping Essence of Ice on her, since I typically keep her as a bow knight. 

It amuses me that the only character who can really use Essence of Ice boosted Frozen Fist is Ignatz. He's the only male character with Essence of Ice. And frankly, I'm not terribly interested in a War Master Ignatz build, so I'll probably never see it in action.

[Fabulously Olivier]

4 minutes ago, ZanaLyrander said:

Indeed. There are plenty of units where I'm not using their Essence ability because there's no point, like Bernie. There are no ice type bow combat arts, so I don't bother equipping Essence of Ice on her, since I typically keep her as a bow knight. 

It amuses me that the only character who can really use Essence of Ice boosted Frozen Fist is Ignatz. He's the only male character with Essence of Ice. And frankly, I'm not terribly interested in a War Master Ignatz build, so I'll probably never see it in action.

Hard to justify Essence of anything on Warmaster tbh, since they'll only ever have one affected combat art. Flamewhorl kick is pretty good mind you, but I'm not sure it's that much better than Mighty Blow or Fierce Iron Fist. And of course Eviscerate is a lock-in for Balthus.

[ZanaLyrander]

6 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Hard to justify Essence of anything on Warmaster tbh, since they'll only ever have one affected combat art. Flamewhorl kick is pretty good mind you, but I'm not sure it's that much better than Mighty Blow or Fierce Iron Fist. And of course Eviscerate is a lock-in for Balthus.

Yeah, Essence of Fire Flamewhorl Kick is pretty impressive, but using an entire ability slot for a single combat art is still kinda a tough sell. It was useful on Raphael, but there are probably better options.

The one I'm going back and forth on is Marianne. As a magic focused ice user, she's kinda shafted by the lack of ice spells (and I really don't enjoy Fimbulvetr because it's hitbox feels really janky), so I frequently have her equipped with Beast Fang and a healing spell instead. The only part I'm on the fence about is her personal ability. I've confirmed that her personal ability does trigger Essence of Ice but... I haven't the foggiest idea what it's actually doing. 

Edited July 12, 2022 by ZanaLyrander

[Burklight]

47 minutes ago, ZanaLyrander said:

Yeah, Essence of Fire Flamewhorl Kick is pretty impressive, but using an entire ability slot for a single combat art is still kinda a tough sell. It was useful on Raphael, but there are probably better options.

The one I'm going back and forth on is Marianne. As a magic focused ice user, she's kinda shafted by the lack of ice spells (and I really don't enjoy Fimbulvetr because it's hitbox feels really janky), so I frequently have her equipped with Beast Fang and a healing spell instead. The only part I'm on the fence about is her personal ability. I've confirmed that her personal ability does trigger Essence of Ice but... I haven't the foggiest idea what it's actually doing. 

While in theory I agree with Essence of Fire being lackluster for WM in general, Balthus in practice doesn't actually have a better skill to use if you're using Flamewhorl Kick. At least not until they fix Apex abilities.

Essence of Ice is actually quite good on DK Ingrid imo. She gets Flimbulvetr, Ice Lance, and DK C5, and her passive benefits. Also she learns Flare, which fits in pretty nicely.

[ZanaLyrander]

3 minutes ago, Burklight said:

While in theory I agree with Essence of Fire being lackluster for WM in general, Balthus in practice doesn't actually have a better skill to use if you're using Flamewhorl Kick. At least not until they fix Apex abilities.

Essence of Ice is actually quite good on DK Ingrid imo. She gets Flimbulvetr, Ice Lance, and DK C5, and her passive benefits. Also she learns Flare, which fits in pretty nicely.

Yeah, I'm using it on my own DK Ingrid in my current run, and it's working reasonably well. Still wish Fimbulvetr was a bit more reliable, the number of times it has failed to connect because an enemy was too close to me is way too high. But it does make Frozen Lance quite strong.

[Burklight]

1 minute ago, ZanaLyrander said:

Yeah, I'm using it on my own DK Ingrid in my current run, and it's working reasonably well. Still wish Fimbulvetr was a bit more reliable, the number of times it has failed to connect because an enemy was too close to me is way too high. But it does make Frozen Lance quite strong.

I've had that happen quite a bit, but it isn't too bad. Just one of those abilities you have to be slightly mindful of your positioning when you use. Hits like a truck when it connects though. 

[ZanaLyrander]

Just now, Burklight said:

I've had that happen quite a bit, but it isn't too bad. Just one of those abilities you have to be slightly mindful of your positioning when you use. Hits like a truck when it connects though. 

Eh... it's really useful for the freeze effect, but the damage is kinda lackluster compared to a lot of spells of the same strength category like Bolganone, Thoron, or Luna, none of which have that hitbox problem. Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad spell by any means, it's just that there are quite a few spells that are equal or stronger than it which you don't have to be mindful of your positioning when you use.

[Burklight]

1 minute ago, ZanaLyrander said:

Eh... it's really useful for the freeze effect, but the damage is kinda lackluster compared to a lot of spells of the same strength category like Bolganone, Thoron, or Luna, none of which have that hitbox problem. Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad spell by any means, it's just that there are quite a few spells that are equal or stronger than it which you don't have to be mindful of your positioning when you use.

I don't have numbers in front of me, so this is entirely based off feel + speculation and I'm ready to be proven wrong. Apples to apples comparing Fimbulvetr to other spells like you mention, it's pretty clearly the weakest one. However, in this specific instance, you're comparing Fimbulvetr that's buffed with Essence of Ice AND Flare. The list of units who can buff one of those better spells with both Essence and Flare is quite low. The only ones that come to mind are Bernedatte, who's ironically also using Fimbulvetr, Hilda, who for sure wants to be using an Axe and not spells, and Edelgard who actually could pull it off decently well in a hybrid sword class.

As I'm typing this, the only thing I can think of would be Agnea's Arrow with just Flare on Ingrid is probably better than Fimbulvetr with both if you manage to get her to learn it, but I'm suspicious of the rest of them.

[ZanaLyrander]

Just now, Burklight said:

I don't have numbers in front of me, so this is entirely based off feel + speculation and I'm ready to be proven wrong. Apples to apples comparing Fimbulvetr to other spells like you mention, it's pretty clearly the weakest one. However, in this specific instance, you're comparing Fimbulvetr that's buffed with Essence of Ice AND Flare. The list of units who can buff one of those better spells with both Essence and Flare is quite low. The only ones that come to mind are Bernedatte, who's ironically also using Fimbulvetr, Hilda, who for sure wants to be using an Axe and not spells, and Edelgard who actually could pull it off decently well in a hybrid sword class.

As I'm typing this, the only thing I can think of would be Agnea's Arrow with just Flare on Ingrid is probably better than Fimbulvetr with both if you manage to get her to learn it, but I'm suspicious of the rest of them.

This is the problem with how insufferably vague Three Hopes is with how they calculate damage, because you're entirely correct, the only real information we have is subjective and based on feel. I've rarely seen Fimbulvetr OHKO an enemy commander, while I've seen Bolganone, Thoron, Luna, and other 'advanced [element]' spells do so quite often. But that's muddled by different abilities boosting magic damage, different magic stats on different characters... getting an objective sense of how much damage one spell actually does compared to another is insanely difficult in this game. I may try replacing Fimbulvetr with Blizzard on DK Ingrid, just to see how it does. Lower damage obviously, but easier to connect with, and very low durability cost and cooldown... might actually be a worthwhile tradeoff.

I can confirm that Edelgard as a Mortal Savant is an absolutely devastating magic user, and has access to Flare (the fact that Hades is a fire and dark spell and benefits from both Essences is insanely useful for her, I really want to teach Hades to basically every Essence of Fire user now that I've learned that).

Of the other spells I listed, Luna is probably a bad example. For one, it already ignores resistance and thus would not benefit from Flare. For two, the only reason I love Luna so much is because I mostly use it on DK Shez, who has 110 Magic, Fiendish Blow, Essence of Darkness, Expert Wizardry from Asclepius, Dark Magic+ from DK, and Boost Combat Arts/Magic lvl 3 from his lance. I imagine Luna probably doesn't hit nearly as hard for most other characters as it does coming from Shez, I'm pretty biased on that front.

[Burklight]

6 minutes ago, ZanaLyrander said:

This is the problem with how insufferably vague Three Hopes is with how they calculate damage, because you're entirely correct, the only real information we have is subjective and based on feel. I've rarely seen Fimbulvetr OHKO an enemy commander, while I've seen Bolganone, Thoron, Luna, and other 'advanced [element]' spells do so quite often. But that's muddled by different abilities boosting magic damage, different magic stats on different characters... getting an objective sense of how much damage one spell actually does compared to another is insanely difficult in this game. I may try replacing Fimbulvetr with Blizzard on DK Ingrid, just to see how it does. Lower damage obviously, but easier to connect with, and very low durability cost and cooldown... might actually be a worthwhile tradeoff.

I can confirm that Edelgard as a Mortal Savant is an absolutely devastating magic user, and has access to Flare (the fact that Hades is a fire and dark spell and benefits from both Essences is insanely useful for her, I really want to teach Hades to basically every Essence of Fire user now that I've learned that).

Of the other spells I listed, Luna is probably a bad example. For one, it already ignores resistance and thus would not benefit from Flare. For two, the only reason I love Luna so much is because I mostly use it on DK Shez, who has 110 Magic, Fiendish Blow, Essence of Darkness, Expert Wizardry from Asclepius, Dark Magic+ from DK, and Boost Combat Arts/Magic lvl 3 from his lance. I imagine Luna probably doesn't hit nearly as hard for most other characters as it does coming from Shez, I'm pretty biased on that front.

I suspect your response to this is going to be "I'm justifiably annoyed that I don't actually know because the game hides it," but I'm going to ask anyway. Do you know how Hades compares to Ragnarok in terms of damage? I know the aoe, especially with Essence of Fire/Dark, puts it to shame so it's probably better even if the damage is weaker, but have you tested it? 

Also a huge fan of Luna on Shez. The damage by itself is solid, but the selling point for me is the fact that it sucks enemies in and groups them for you. Also I'm convinced (not sure if this is real or why it's the case if it is) that using Luna and then immediately using Windsweep does more damage when used together than if you used both independently. The number of times I've instantly killed the entire screen doing that, even with bosses, is very very high if you can get the Windsweep tornado to line up inside the Luna bubble.

[ZanaLyrander]

20 minutes ago, Burklight said:

I suspect your response to this is going to be "I'm justifiably annoyed that I don't actually know because the game hides it," but I'm going to ask anyway. Do you know how Hades compares to Ragnarok in terms of damage? I know the aoe, especially with Essence of Fire/Dark, puts it to shame so it's probably better even if the damage is weaker, but have you tested it? 

Also a huge fan of Luna on Shez. The damage by itself is solid, but the selling point for me is the fact that it sucks enemies in and groups them for you. Also I'm convinced (not sure if this is real or why it's the case if it is) that using Luna and then immediately using Windsweep does more damage when used together than if you used both independently. The number of times I've instantly killed the entire screen doing that, even with bosses, is very very high if you can get the Windsweep tornado to line up inside the Luna bubble.

Yeah, no way of knowing whether Hades or Ragnarok does more damage for sure, but in my experience Hades definitely feels stronger. But it's hard to say. I think one thing I've noticed is that Hades hits a lot of times, which makes it very difficult for enemy commanders to block the whole thing, and much of the damage comes from the last hit, so even if they block the first few hits, so long as they get hit by at least part of it, they get creamed by the last hit, a feature it shares with Dark Spikes (that's honestly the only downside of Agnea's Arrow btw, as powerful as it is, it's all one big hit, so it's much easier for enemies to block). All told, I'm not 100% sure which hits harder, but imo Hades is definitely the more powerful spell overall.

As for Luna + Windsweep, it's probably because if I'm not mistaken, Windtorne (the Wind status effect) increases damage enemies take while in the air, and Spellbound (the Dark status effect) dramatically reduces defense and resistance. So yeah, the two effects together would deal devastating damage. It might be even better with Excalibur in place of Windsweep, really juggle the poor bastards. But yeah, Luna can just devour entire armies, commander and all, the AoE and duration with Essence of Darkness is insane, and it pull them all into one neat little clump. It sometimes feels unfair that Shez can just summon a black hole every 7 seconds or so.

Edited July 12, 2022 by ZanaLyrander

[Burklight]

4 minutes ago, ZanaLyrander said:

As for Luna + Windsweep, it's probably because if I'm not mistaken, Windtorne (the Wind status effect) increases damage enemies take while in the air, and Spellbound (the Dark status effect) dramatically reduces defense and resistance. So yeah, the two effects together would deal devastating damage. It might be even better with Excalibur in place of Windsweep, really juggle the poor bastards. But yeah, Luna can just devour entire armies, commander and all, the AoE and duration with Essence of Darkness is insane, and it pull them all into one neat little clump.

You're right about the status effects, but it looks like there's something else going on in addition to that. If you haven't tried that specific combo yet I'd recommend it.

Somewhat related, I'm convinced at this point that Windsweep followed closely by Firersweep are probably the best attack skills in the game. Just based on the fact that they cost basically zero weapon durability, do good damage, group enemies, have non existent cooldowns and are basically unblockable. Oh, and to keep this sort of on topic, Essence abilities buff them both to the moon.

[ZanaLyrander]

One other thing I have observed: anything that adds an element to your attacks, like one of the possible effects from Annette's personal skill, any of the house lords personal skills, etc, will count as the Essence of that Element for the purposes of changing the AoE of combat arts and spells associate with that element. For example, you equip the Merc Whistle item from Claude on Ashe to give him Dustcloud, he will shoot out three blades of wind when you cast Wind, even if you don't have Essence of Wind equipped. I assume the same holds true for the other two.

[Burklight]

37 minutes ago, ZanaLyrander said:

One other thing I have observed: anything that adds an element to your attacks, like one of the possible effects from Annette's personal skill, any of the house lords personal skills, etc, will count as the Essence of that Element for the purposes of changing the AoE of combat arts and spells associate with that element. For example, you equip the Merc Whistle item from Claude on Ashe to give him Dustcloud, he will shoot out three blades of wind when you cast Wind, even if you don't have Essence of Wind equipped. I assume the same holds true for the other two.

That's interesting. If we're going back and doing the speculating thing, maybe the "powerful" and "devastating" added to level 2 and 3 of that passive behaves in a similar way to "Essence of ___". I wonder what would happen if you used that on someone who didn't have a level 3 personal ability from the tactics instructor.

[ZanaLyrander]

21 hours ago, Burklight said:

I don't have numbers in front of me, so this is entirely based off feel + speculation and I'm ready to be proven wrong. Apples to apples comparing Fimbulvetr to other spells like you mention, it's pretty clearly the weakest one. However, in this specific instance, you're comparing Fimbulvetr that's buffed with Essence of Ice AND Flare. The list of units who can buff one of those better spells with both Essence and Flare is quite low. The only ones that come to mind are Bernedatte, who's ironically also using Fimbulvetr, Hilda, who for sure wants to be using an Axe and not spells, and Edelgard who actually could pull it off decently well in a hybrid sword class.

As I'm typing this, the only thing I can think of would be Agnea's Arrow with just Flare on Ingrid is probably better than Fimbulvetr with both if you manage to get her to learn it, but I'm suspicious of the rest of them.

By the way, I managed to have Dorothea teach Agnea's Arrow to Ingrid, and you were right, this thing is devastating on her. Not only does it do a ton of damage with Flare, there is so much knockback on Agnea's Arrow that it activates Ingrid's personal skill a ton. Every time she casts Agnea's Arrow, it triggers a ton of Ice explosions from all the enemies she sends flying.

Edited July 13, 2022 by ZanaLyrander

[Sire]

Has anyone tried experimenting with the Element Essence skills for the Relic Weapon Arts? This involves buying the "Crest Accessory" and then equipping the accessory and the weapon on a character with a compatible Elemental Essence.
-- I'm working on it myself, but still haven't unlocked it yet for the characters I'm using. (I could just toss it on a character with the proper element and test it there, but I'm still more playing the game instead of testing out different builds.)
-- I'm not sure if I'll actually be doing this much, as I tend to stay vanilla and just have the proper wielders use their weapons. Still, it could be an interesting experiment.

* * * * * * * * * *

As for some of my observations/opinions on Essence of (Element), mostly regarding classes...
-- While writing this post, I did some Mock Battle testing (specifically Dark Bishop [Dark] and Gremory [Fire], with their movesets and Hades) to see some differences. While some combat arts, spells, and strong attacks make it obvious how they are enhanced (Firesweep making three tornadoes instead of just one, or the Dark Knight Strong Attack 1 leaving more/larger sigils on the ground), others just say the skill is active but I see no visual changes. Perhaps it's just increased damage or a slight increase to AoE that I missed.
-- So, guess I'll just stick to my musing on classes instead of also trying to go into combat arts/magic.
=== One wonders if some of the stuff somehow broke during development, as I'm hearing the Apex (Weapon) skills may be bugged and cause the user to deal less damage instead of more. Perhaps this may be a similar case for some of the supposed augmented attacks, but I don't know for certain.

Classes
Mortal Savant: Requires one to use the Class Action and make sure its fully charged. Then, a Strong Attack will be augmented with a certain Element.
-- Honestly, I would consider the elemental strong attacks here more of a bonus, mostly due to the setup required. In addition, I imagine the Elemental Essence is more used for actual Combat Arts/Magic, but there is some synergy depending on what class one plays. This applies for all classes, not just the Mortal Savant.
-- Also, Strong Attack 3 spam is just as effective baseline (almost like Ryoma/Owain's Strong Attack 3 Spam in FEW).

Bishop/Holy Knight: Basically best-in-slot for those with Light Essence, as all Strong Attacks seem to use the Light Element.
-- A shame that Rodrigue only has his personal special attack as a Paladin instead of a Holy Knight.
-- I haven't gotten around to really messing around with Light Magic and its Combat Arts, so I can't offer much of an opinion on those.
-- Some may prefer using a Gremory instead of a Bishop for Light Essence (Flayn, Mercedes), as Gremory is a higher tier and does have some Light mixed in with Elemental. Just pick whatever makes you happy.

Dark Knight: Useful for those with the rare Dark Element due to the Class Action and two separate Strong Attacks being Dark. However, it can work with Lightning, Wind, Fire, or Ice if one is willing to spam the same Strong Attack over and over.

Bow Knight: A weird one, as I recall the Strong Attack 5 while mounted seems to be a fire attack, while the generic special attack while mounted seems to be wind. However, I have not tested this myself to confirm.

Warlock: The standard spellcaster, having two Lightning Strong Attacks with a Light, Fire, Wind, and Ice Strong Attacks as well. It's interesting seeing the Lightning focus here, but I imagine most players would rather go Gremory or Dark Bishop. Still, if one enjoys the moveset of the Warlock, it is available.

Gremory: The "jack of all magic" option, Gremory has access to two Light Strong Attacks as well as a Wind, Ice, Fire, and Lightning Strong Attacks.
-- Also, if you have an Elemental Essence and use the Class Action of the correct element, you get three ion cannons beams instead of just one. It's a sight to see.
-- As an aside, Hapi with Mage's Ploy transforms the default Class Action into a Dark Element, which is not normally available for Gremory. Not sure how useful it is, but it's interesting I guess.

Dark Bishop: Like the Dark Knight, Dark Bishops work well with the Dark Element due to the Class Action and two separate Strong Attacks being Dark,. Of course, Dark Bishop can work with Ice, Lightning, Fire, and Wind essences as well, and it helps that the Dark Bishop strong attacks are pretty great.

[Archeleon]

From what I've gathered Essence of X skills are really just about expanding the attack range/duration of the affected attacks. They don't increase the damage in any instance. Even if you were to hit a commander with all three spheres of Fire+EoF they will still just take the singular instance of damage. So they aren't exactly going to help you nuke a commander but are useful in clearing waves of infantry. I have seen people try to build characters around Essences but I don't think that is worthwhile.

[ZanaLyrander]

1 hour ago, Archeleon said:

From what I've gathered Essence of X skills are really just about expanding the attack range/duration of the affected attacks. They don't increase the damage in any instance. Even if you were to hit a commander with all three spheres of Fire+EoF they will still just take the singular instance of damage. So they aren't exactly going to help you nuke a commander but are useful in clearing waves of infantry. I have seen people try to build characters around Essences but I don't think that is worthwhile.

Good to know, thanks! So in terms of raw damage, you don't actually need an Essence, it's more useful for taking out waves. And even then, there are plenty of large AoE spells like Agnea's Arrow that are just as good at taking out waves, and don't even benefit from an Essence ability. Makes me feel a lot less bad for characters that don't have access to an Essence, like Lysithea.

That being said, if it increases duration, doesn't that increase the damage of DoT spells like Excalibur or Luna (Calling Luna a DoT feels weird to me, but it does hit multiple times, in some cases I've seen it hit up to three times with the Essence of Darkness)? Longer duration, same damage over time would equal more total damage.

Edited July 15, 2022 by ZanaLyrander

[Archeleon]

I thought so at first too. I don't have someone with Luna+EoD to test specifically but I tested Manuela with EoL+Bolting/Thunder and Gremory Action and even though they theoretically strike more times the damage seems to be relatively the same. It is possible that a few spells behave differently with EoX. 

If you feel like testing it I would focus on how much off an HP bar you see the spells take from a commander in the training grounds with and without the essence and see if one it actually increases strikes/duration and two if it does do more total damage.

[ZanaLyrander]

3 minutes ago, Archeleon said:

I thought so at first too. I don't have someone with Luna+EoD to test specifically but I tested Manuela with EoL+Bolting/Thunder and Gremory Action and even though they theoretically strike more times the damage seems to be relatively the same. It is possible that a few spells behave differently with EoX. 

If you feel like testing it I would focus on how much off an HP bar you see the spells take from a commander in the training grounds with and without the essence and see if one it actually increases strikes/duration and two if it does do more total damage.

Yeah, probably best to test with something like Luna or Excalibur. I get the feeling that while Thunder and Bolting theoretically hit multiple times, they really only hit each target once (twice if you count the electrified status effect follow up), kinda like what you were saying with multiple hits from the the fireballs when you cast Fire only counting as one. We'd need to test with a proper damage over time effect. I will say though, if increasing the duration does the same amount of damage, just over a longer period, I'm going to be a bit disappointed, that's the opposite of an improvement.

[Burklight]

10 minutes ago, ZanaLyrander said:

Yeah, probably best to test with something like Luna or Excalibur. I get the feeling that while Thunder and Bolting theoretically hit multiple times, they really only hit each target once (twice if you count the electrified status effect follow up), kinda like what you were saying with multiple hits from the the fireballs when you cast Fire only counting as one. We'd need to test with a proper damage over time effect. I will say though, if increasing the duration does the same amount of damage, just over a longer period, I'm going to be a bit disappointed, that's the opposite of an improvement.

The non spells that come to mind would be Byleth C6 and Edelgard C5 in their unique classes with EoF for duration. I might test those two specifically later if you don't.