Help pick my classes

[Starkhan]

Doing a Self Imposed challenge run, details don't matter too much other than one class per character, fliers and bow knights are banned, Hard Classic. Of course my overthinking self never makes this easy So what are your thoughts?

Units- Byleth, Edelgard, Hubert, Ferdinand, Lindhart, Caspar, Bernadetta, Dorothea, Petra, Jeritza, Lysithea, Manuela, Hanneman, Shamir and Mercedes

Classes- Swordmaster, Hero, Assassin, Paladin, Warrior, Fortress Knight, Sniper, Grappler, Warlock, Dark Bishop, Bishop, Mortal Savant, Great Knight, Dark Knight, Holy Knight, War Master and Gremory

[Morgan--Grandmaster]

• Byleth-Hero
• Edelgard-Warrior
• Hubert-Dark Bishop
• Ferdinand-Great Knight
• Lindhart-Bishop
• Caspar-War Master
• Bernadetta-Sniper
• Dorothea-Gremory
• Petra-Assassin
• Jeritza-Dark Knight
• Lysithea-Mortal Savant
• Manuela-Swordmaster
• Hanneman-Warlock
• Shamir-Paladin
• Mercedes-Holy Knight

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

Do a swap between the best bros.

Linhardt goes Noble* -> Fighter* -> Brigand* -> Grappler.

Caspar goes Noble* -> Monk* -> Mage* -> Bishop.

* is for class mastery.

[lenticular]

It depends. First, there are several classes that aren't on either your banned list or your included list: Dancer and the unique classes for Byleth, Edelgard, and Jeritza. Are these allowed, or banned? You also don't mention whether duplicate classes are permitted. You say one class per character, but not whether it's also one character per class. Finally, what level of difficulty are you looking for? Is it a difficult challenge run which will need fairly optimised builds, an easy one that wants deliberately unoptimal builds, or somewhere in between?

Here's a list based on the assumption of no unique classes and no duplicated classes, which is leaning towards quirky off-builds, but not going into the territory of anything truly terrible.

• Byleth -- Fortress Knight
• Edelgard -- Mortal Savant
• Hubert -- Paladin
• Ferdinand -- War Master
• Linhardt -- Dark Bishop
• Caspar -- Hero
• Bernadetta -- Holy Knight
• Dorothea -- Swordmaster
• Petra -- Warrior
• Jeritza -- Grappler
• Lysithea -- Assassin
• Manuela -- Dark Knight
• Hanneman -- Sniper
• Shamir -- Gremory
• Mercedes -- Warlock

If I had to pick just one, I'd say Edelgard as Mortal Savant. It seems like it should be fun, since she has a decent spell list, a couple of sword combat arts, and some of the best mixed-attacker growth rates in the series. I've never run it, though, because it's so hard to resist the siren call of putting her on a wyvern. But in a no-flier run, that isn't an issue.

[Starkhan]

5 hours ago, lenticular said:

It depends. First, there are several classes that aren't on either your banned list or your included list: Dancer and the unique classes for Byleth, Edelgard, and Jeritza. Are these allowed, or banned? You also don't mention whether duplicate classes are permitted. You say one class per character, but not whether it's also one character per class. Finally, what level of difficulty are you looking for? Is it a difficult challenge run which will need fairly optimised builds, an easy one that wants deliberately unoptimal builds, or somewhere in between?

Here's a list based on the assumption of no unique classes and no duplicated classes, which is leaning towards quirky off-builds, but not going into the territory of anything truly terrible.

• Byleth -- Fortress Knight
• Edelgard -- Mortal Savant
• Hubert -- Paladin
• Ferdinand -- War Master
• Linhardt -- Dark Bishop
• Caspar -- Hero
• Bernadetta -- Holy Knight
• Dorothea -- Swordmaster
• Petra -- Warrior
• Jeritza -- Grappler
• Lysithea -- Assassin
• Manuela -- Dark Knight
• Hanneman -- Sniper
• Shamir -- Gremory
• Mercedes -- Warlock

If I had to pick just one, I'd say Edelgard as Mortal Savant. It seems like it should be fun, since she has a decent spell list, a couple of sword combat arts, and some of the best mixed-attacker growth rates in the series. I've never run it, though, because it's so hard to resist the siren call of putting her on a wyvern. But in a no-flier run, that isn't an issue.

Sorry Dancer and the unique classes are included. By one class per character I mean only one character can have that as their endgame class. For example while Petra and Byleth can certify for Assassin they can't both be Assassins as their final class. I guess I am looking for which character would make the most out of which class. The challenge really comes from my embarrassing lack of skill when it comes to strategy games.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

13 minutes ago, Starkhan said:

I guess I am looking for which character would make the most out of which class.

In that case I would broadly agree with @Morgan--Grandmaster's list, but with the following changes:

Teach stays in Enlightened One,

Jeritza stays in Death Knight,

Mercedes finishes in Dark Knight,

Shamir stays in Sniper, and

Bernadetta finishes in Paladin.

[haarhaarhaar]

Do you have an idea of when/for how long you'll be using these units? Like whether some are only for the midgame/paralogues, or some (outside Byleth/Edelgard) are definitely coming/not coming to the endgame? I ask because if you've already planned that out, then you can dump the units you won't use much/at all into sub-optimal classes, and keep the good classes for units you like or rely on. For example, Grappler/War Master can go to Jeritza/Byleth (both of whom become absolute delete buttons with gauntlet classes) if you plan on giving up on Caspar being useful. Anyway, will write up a list of potentials given your class list at the top, with a bit of reasoning behind each.

Byleth - War Master (with Killer Knuckles+, he finishes everything)

Edelgard - Mortal Savant (agree completely with @lenticular's reasons, although you miss out on optimising Aymr)

Hubert - Paladin (Arrow of Indra+ and Frozen Lance means his damage output/range in Part 2 doesn't lose to the mage classes until he gets until S-Rank Reason, but yes he has to get in close sometimes, cavalry struggles in the late maps, and he loses out on Banshee at the end)

Ferdinand - Great Knight (standard pick, if he's allowed to get Pavise then even better)

Linhardt/Mercedes - Bishop/Dark Knight (Bishop goes to whoever you prefer, double uses of either Warp or Fortify according to your play style. I lean towards Bishop Linhardt, because Mercedes has a better magic stat to make use of the Faire, but there isn't much in it)

Caspar - Warrior (would only use him as necessary until his Mercedes paralogue, where I pray for a crit with Killer Axe+ and Smash)

Bernadetta - Sniper (standard pick for Hunter's Volley)

Dorothea - Warlock (standard pick for doubling Meteor)

Petra/Shamir - Swordmaster/Assassin (both strong units, both underserved by Swordmaster, but can make best use of the Wo Dao+ crit build. Both will use bows no matter what, so the difference between Swordmaster and Assassin is mainly in the movement)

Jeritza - Grappler (you'll have to do a bit of work to get FIF, but it makes a strong character even stronger)

Lysithea - Gremory (standard pick)

Manuela - Holy Knight (sub-optimal, giving her a horse just to extend Warp, but I wouldn't use her for much else)

Hanneman - Dark Bishop (lack of other magic classes, extra Fiendish Blow ups his damage for one shot of Meteor)

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

13 minutes ago, haarhaarhaar said:

Hanneman - Dark Bishop (lack of other magic classes, extra Fiendish Blow ups his damage for one shot of Meteor)

The class-based Fiendish Blow doesn't stack with the equippable one. A Warlock Hanneman with Mage mastery is doing more damage tham a Dark Bishop Hanneman. I see you gave Warlock to Dorothea, but Gremory is arguably better for her (more move, more Physics, higher Magic - albeit, slightly weaker spells).

[Morgan--Grandmaster]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

In that case I would broadly agree with @Morgan--Grandmaster's list, but with the following changes:

Teach stays in Enlightened One,

Jeritza stays in Death Knight,

Mercedes finishes in Dark Knight,

Shamir stays in Sniper, and

Bernadetta finishes in Paladin.

Oh, I didn't see either of those. That changes things.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Morgan--Grandmaster

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

3 minutes ago, Morgan--Grandmaster said:

Oh, I didn't see either of those. That changes things. Does the same thing go for Edelgard's unique class?

Here are the stat comparisons, between Warrior / Armored Lord / Emperor:

Spoiler

Mov: +1 / +1 / +1

HP: +3 / +5 / +8

Str: +3 / +0 / +0

Mag: +0 / +0 / +0

Dex: +0 / +0 / +0

Spd: +1 / -3 / -4

Lck: +1 / +0 / +1

Def: +1 / +5 / +8

Res: +0 / +0 / +0

Cha: +0 / +2 / +2

So, Warrior has the advantage in Strength and Speed, while Edelgard's personal classes have the upper hand in physical bulk and Charm. Warrior also offers Axe Crit +10, while the personal classes have the Charm skill. There's no clear winner between the listed options - I'd say it's more a matter of preference. 

Of course, in a "no fliers" playthrough, her best option is probably Great Knight. It's the most mobile permitted Axefaire class, letting her abuse Raging Storm decently well. Then again, that would mean Ferdinand needs to find a new class.

[haarhaarhaar]

13 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

The class-based Fiendish Blow doesn't stack with the equippable one. A Warlock Hanneman with Mage mastery is doing more damage tham a Dark Bishop Hanneman. I see you gave Warlock to Dorothea, but Gremory is arguably better for her (more move, more Physics, higher Magic - albeit, slightly weaker spells).

This is good to know, although opens up a different path for Hanneman. Instead of going through Mage, he can go through Archer and get Hit+20 to shore up his big spells. Clearly Dark Bishop is even worse than I gave it credit for, but Hanneman isn't a high priority pick given the mages on offer, so I probably wouldn't change my choice here. 

You're right that Gremory is better than Warlock for Dorothea, but I think Lysithea gets first pick of whatever magic classes are going, and Gremory is definitely better for her (2x Luna! 2x Warp!), so Dorothea gets the can on that. 

12 minutes ago, Morgan--Grandmaster said:

Oh, I didn't see either of those. That changes things. In that case...

Yeah I was wondering whether you meant to exclude their natural classes (as with Edelgard's Emperor, which is not stellar, but at least is better than Fortress Knight). If you're banning classes on grounds of them being too strong, I think there's no reason to get rid of Enlightened One at least, although maybe there's a case for banning Death Knight (better paladin with magic access and Counterattack - it isn't game-breaking, but it's hardly as if Jeritza needs it to be good).

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

13 minutes ago, haarhaarhaar said:

You're right that Gremory is better than Warlock for Dorothea, but I think Lysithea gets first pick of whatever magic classes are going, and Gremory is definitely better for her (2x Luna! 2x Warp!), so Dorothea gets the can on that. 

Ah, somehow I missed that Lysithea had been put into Gremory. In that context, I can understand "Warlock Dorothea, Dark Bishop Hanneman". Although... if we give Edelgard her personal class, that opens up "Mortal Savant Dorothea, Warlock Hanneman". Dorothea will have fewer spell charges this way, and less magic... but more move, and higher damage with Soulblade and the Levin Sword. Hanneman, in turn, gets an extra Meteor, making up for the one that Dorothea lost.

17 minutes ago, haarhaarhaar said:

This is good to know, although opens up a different path for Hanneman. Instead of going through Mage, he can go through Archer and get Hit+20 to shore up his big spells. Clearly Dark Bishop is even worse than I gave it credit for, but Hanneman isn't a high priority pick given the mages on offer, so I probably wouldn't change my choice here. 

That'd be one approach, although it's gonna be very difficult to train Archer Hanneman. He's doing basically 0 damage without a Magic Bow (which requires B-rank Bows, and easy access to Arcane Crystals).

I do think Dark Bishop can be nice for units who mastered Dark Mage, but not Mage. Poison Strike actually affords more damage than Fiendish Blow against human foes with >30 HP that you don't double or crit. Of course, the extra Poison Strike damage can't finish off the target (whereas Fiendish Blow can). Still, I could see a case for a slowbody like Hanneman simply going Dark Mage -> Dark Bishop.

[lenticular]

30 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Of course, in a "no fliers" playthrough, her best option is probably Great Knight. It's the most mobile permitted Axefaire class, letting her abuse Raging Storm decently well. Then again, that would mean Ferdinand needs to find a new class.

Given that there's no Dancer (and there definitely should be a Dancer), that would be a good option for Ferdinand. Or make Caspar the Dancer and give his class to Ferdinand.

[haarhaarhaar]

12 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Although... if we give Edelgard her personal class, that opens up "Mortal Savant Dorothea, Warlock Hanneman". Dorothea will have fewer spell charges this way, and less magic... but more move, and higher damage with Soulblade and the Levin Sword. Hanneman, in turn, gets an extra Meteor, making up for the one that Dorothea lost.

Yeah, Dorothea's Soulblade is still a bit unreliable, but I think your distribution of classes makes better use of the characters' strengths.

13 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

That'd be one approach, although it's gonna be very difficult to train Archer Hanneman. He's doing basically 0 damage without a Magic Bow (which requires B-rank Bows, and easy access to Arcane Crystals).

I do think Dark Bishop can be nice for units who mastered Dark Mage, but not Mage. Poison Strike actually affords more damage than Fiendish Blow against human foes with >30 HP that you don't double or crit. Of course, the extra Poison Strike damage can't finish off the target (whereas Fiendish Blow can). Still, I could see a case for a slowbody like Hanneman simply going Dark Mage -> Dark Bishop.

Agreed - I imagined Archer Hanneman would basically just be sitting as an Adjutant, because if you're a Dark Bishop in my party, you've basically already been written off as a serious pick. Even Hanneman is likely to master Dark Mage before Lvl 20 if you're using him semi-regularly, and I like units always working towards masteries if they can, hence the Archer sidetrack. 

I'm also a fan of Poison Strike, and if I'm playing NG+ I often give my Dark Seals to weaker units wielding bows (i.e. Ignatz, Hanneman when I was making him a magical Sniper), since archers make best use of it IMO. Poison Strike + Curved Shot is guaranteed decent chip at three spaces after all.

 

[Starkhan]

1 hour ago, haarhaarhaar said:

Do you have an idea of when/for how long you'll be using these units? Like whether some are only for the midgame/paralogues, or some (outside Byleth/Edelgard) are definitely coming/not coming to the endgame? I ask because if you've already planned that out, then you can dump the units you won't use much/at all into sub-optimal classes, and keep the good classes for units you like or rely on. For example, Grappler/War Master can go to Jeritza/Byleth (both of whom become absolute delete buttons with gauntlet classes) if you plan on giving up on Caspar being useful. Anyway, will write up a list of potentials given your class list at the top, with a bit of reasoning behind each.

Byleth - War Master (with Killer Knuckles+, he finishes everything)

Edelgard - Mortal Savant (agree completely with @lenticular's reasons, although you miss out on optimising Aymr)

Hubert - Paladin (Arrow of Indra+ and Frozen Lance means his damage output/range in Part 2 doesn't lose to the mage classes until he gets until S-Rank Reason, but yes he has to get in close sometimes, cavalry struggles in the late maps, and he loses out on Banshee at the end)

Ferdinand - Great Knight (standard pick, if he's allowed to get Pavise then even better)

Linhardt/Mercedes - Bishop/Dark Knight (Bishop goes to whoever you prefer, double uses of either Warp or Fortify according to your play style. I lean towards Bishop Linhardt, because Mercedes has a better magic stat to make use of the Faire, but there isn't much in it)

Caspar - Warrior (would only use him as necessary until his Mercedes paralogue, where I pray for a crit with Killer Axe+ and Smash)

Bernadetta - Sniper (standard pick for Hunter's Volley)

Dorothea - Warlock (standard pick for doubling Meteor)

Petra/Shamir - Swordmaster/Assassin (both strong units, both underserved by Swordmaster, but can make best use of the Wo Dao+ crit build. Both will use bows no matter what, so the difference between Swordmaster and Assassin is mainly in the movement)

Jeritza - Grappler (you'll have to do a bit of work to get FIF, but it makes a strong character even stronger)

Lysithea - Gremory (standard pick)

Manuela - Holy Knight (sub-optimal, giving her a horse just to extend Warp, but I wouldn't use her for much else)

Hanneman - Dark Bishop (lack of other magic classes, extra Fiendish Blow ups his damage for one shot of Meteor)

 

I will be levelling all units equally 

[Starkhan]

Thanks so much for the help guys, never expected this much engagement and it is greatly appreciated. These are the classes I think I'll go with. Thoughts

Byleth- Grappler
Edelgard- Warrior
Hubert- Dark Bishop
Ferdinand- Dancer/Hero
Lindhart- Holy Knight
Caspar- War Master
Bernadetta- Paladin
Dorothea- Warlock
Petra- Assassin
Jeritza- Swordmaster
Lysithea- Gremory
Manuela- Mortal Savant
Hanneman- Dark Knight
Shamir- Sniper
Mercedes- Bishop

[haarhaarhaar]

Hubert makes Dark Bishop work because of his great mag stat (not to mention how thematic it is for him) but it definitely isn't amazing. Same goes for Swordmaster Jeritza. Tbh though, these are all plenty strong character/class combos for Hard Classic, so I don't see a particular issue.