Vince the Magician (rough draft)

[Ace_]

-Deleted-

Edited March 14, 2023 by Tanjiro

[Hrothgar777]

A few things:

1. This is much too short for an individual chapter. Assume 3,000-5,000 words is the appropriate range.

 

2. The events mentioned in the first three paragraphs should span 3 chapters, if not more. 

 

3. In fiction, there's a concept called "show, don't tell." Gradually reveal things instead of just explaining it a big info dump. Furthermore, it's preferable if you don't just explain it outright but indirectly suggest a thing by having it be implied by something else.

For example: "Scrappy McUnderdog was very brave and didn't hesitate to stick his neck out to save strangers in a bind." Instead of writing this, how about telling a scene where Scrappy McUnderdog risks confrontation with a potentially dangerous person to save a stranger in a bind? The scene doesn't have to be plot-relevant; it merely lets the reader know what his defining character traits are through observation.

Another example: "Angus Marty McBeefcake lost his parents at an early age." Instead of that, maybe have him waking up to an empty house in one scene, coming home to an empty house in another, and perhaps visiting the grave where his parents are buried in a third.

 

4. Avoid prologues. A story shouldn't begin with a backstory.

 

5. Why is this set on another planet when earth would suffice?

 

6. Most importantly of all, keep writing and keep practicing writing. Never get discouraged. Never quit.

 

7. Read a lot of novels so that you get a sense of how other people write stories.

[Ace_]

6 hours ago, Hrothgar777 said:

A few things:

1. This is much too short for an individual chapter. Assume 3,000-5,000 words is the appropriate range.

 

2. The events mentioned in the first three paragraphs should span 3 chapters, if not more. 

 

3. In fiction, there's a concept called "show, don't tell." Gradually reveal things instead of just explaining it a big info dump. Furthermore, it's preferable if you don't just explain it outright but indirectly suggest a thing by having it be implied by something else.

For example: "Scrappy McUnderdog was very brave and didn't hesitate to stick his neck out to save strangers in a bind." Instead of writing this, how about telling a scene where Scrappy McUnderdog risks confrontation with a potentially dangerous person to save a stranger in a bind? The scene doesn't have to be plot-relevant; it merely lets the reader know what his defining character traits are through observation.

Another example: "Angus Marty McBeefcake lost his parents at an early age." Instead of that, maybe have him waking up to an empty house in one scene, coming home to an empty house in another, and perhaps visiting the grave where his parents are buried in a third.

 

4. Avoid prologues. A story shouldn't begin with a backstory.

 

5. Why is this set on another planet when earth would suffice?

 

6. Most importantly of all, keep writing and keep practicing writing. Never get discouraged. Never quit.

 

7. Read a lot of novels so that you get a sense of how other people write stories.

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it.

[Benice]

11 hours ago, Tanjiro said:

Here's chapter 1 (rough draft) of my original  fantasy novel. It's my first story so feedback would be great.

One thing I will say right off the bat is that writing a full novel is hard. I've always loved storytelling ever since I was little, and, though chaotic, I thought myself to be quite the capable and mature writer by the age of 12, when I tried to write my first novel over the next year. At present, it is 252 pages, and it is awful- Parts of writing that don't come out as much in shorter stories are inflated to the nth degree in the context of a novel. Of course, part of it was that I was super young and my brain had sooo much growing to do (and it still does), but there are things I simply had not yet learned how to do when writing at that scale.

For example, planning. My strategy in every other story I'd told was generally to plan as little as possible: I wouldn't fill in the mind-map pages that teachers would hand out and avoided putting my ideas on a page as if it were the plague. This was sort of fine for what was asked of me at the time, but when it touched the novel, it translated to flight of ideas, incoherence, tonal inconsistency, abject lack of focus, a pace as consistent as my work ethic, and much more. What happened in my life came out directly onto the page, but without the ability to plan and know why I was writing, it just made everything a jumbled mess.

Additionally, things I simply considered unimportant to stories, like, y'know, THEMES, weren't considered at all. As mentioned above, I wanted to tell a story of adventure, of passion, joy, friendship, but I never actually had a purpose with the story itself- What was I saying with it, and why? Even if I were a flawless writer in terms of my ability to put words on a page, the story would still have been empty and purposeless.

There's a lot of reasons that my novel didn't turn out well (and I really need to go back and do a proper analysis of how much I did wrong with it), but certainly a large part of it is how rigorous of a test a novel is for a writer. I certainly applaud your ambition to write a novel, and I encourage you to go after it; however, I would be loath to tell you that it's the same as writing a short story, just longer. It's simply not true, from what I've gathered throughout my lifetime (Keep in mind I am young, though, and am far from an omnipotent being, as can probably be easy to see from how long-winded and confusing all my writing is).

I advise joining a literature class or club if you have access to one. The thing that has helped all of my writing the most by far is my AP English class- Where we don't do any creative writing at all. However, learning the mechanics of storytelling and properly analyzing works with "literary merit" has helped me so much, and I can only suggest that you try taking the same path. The Great Gatsby is a novel I can very highly recommend for this- It's pretty slow at face value, but there's a lot of really neat stuff to pull apart in it, and it's also quite short. Try looking up a list of literary devices, then pick a story that has one of those devices. Then:

1. Find a quote from the work that has that lit device in it
2. Briefly explain the context of what is happening in the quote
3. Fairly briefly explain how the quote is an example of that lit device
4. Explain how that device connects to the work as a whole

This is the exercise we do bi-weekly in the class, alongside poetry analysis, which I enjoy much less. It took me a couple months to really get to actually knowing what I was writing about, but it's helped me immensely. Attached here is an example of one of my more recent ones, if you're curious: LD#5.docx

 

With all that being said, I hope you don't feel discouraged- Writing a novel is not impossible! What we don't see when we read a good novel, though, is all the hours of work that authors put in to their works not just in terms of the novel itself, but the journey to writing that novel. Almost nobody jumps into novels with immediate success- One of the most successful authors in the modern era, Stephen King, was sending his short stories to magazines for years and years before getting any kind of attention from them. If you want to tell a grand, long story, that's fantastic! It doesn't have to be a novel, though: Forms such as collections of short-stories work splendidly as well, and help sort of condense the grandiosity of a novel into smaller, easier-to-digest chunks. As you learn as a writer and as a person, the maturity of both your work and your ability to plan and execute said work will develop and grow, but we don't generally learn to swim by being thrown into the deep-end of the pool. Be patient with yourself as you learn, and don't become to attached to it being a novel at the outset.

And, of course, make sure to read often!

 

...I need to learn to write in a more direct way, don't I? That's a lot of text before even going into specifics...

9 hours ago, Hrothgar777 said:

This is much too short for an individual chapter.

I agree with this- Your story presently feels a bit more like a summary with occasional dialogue thrown in. Try to take your time to expand on your characters and world, since at this pace, I personally don't know much about the setting, characters, or tone. Considering how much you're able to write of this storyline, I'm sure it's in your mind, but do make sure we have time to look at it before it leaves.

I personally don't think that chapters need to have a specific length to function, but text itself certainly should have a level of development regardless of the frame it's placed in.

9 hours ago, Hrothgar777 said:

In fiction, there's a concept called "show, don't tell." Gradually reveal things instead of just explaining it a big info dump. Furthermore, it's preferable if you don't just explain it outright but indirectly suggest a thing by having it be implied by something else.

Also a big agree on this! It's advice I have a hard time following, but if you want something to be conveyed to the reader, the characters and what they do should be what shows it. And if what you want from a character doesn't fit in to what they're saying, thinking, or doing, then... Well, then the character should probably change to suit the story as opposed to shoe-horning a character trait we want into our own story.

9 hours ago, Hrothgar777 said:

The scene doesn't have to be plot-relevant; it merely lets the reader know what his defining character traits are through observation.

I apologize if I'm out of line here, since I am inexperienced, but I don't really agree with this, however: If you can't convey a character through what is happening, I don't think adding filler is a good way to provide characterization. Incorporating events into a story to highlight them is a bit more of a gray area to me, but I think it should be done with a fair bit of finesse and caution, lest it feel like the author is holding the story or character's hand along a predestined path. And speaking of which...

12 hours ago, Tanjiro said:

Then out of nowhere, the hero that saved him a few years ago appeared.

I personally rather dislike this bit. I think Vince being rescued the first time is fine- It adds to the mystery and uncertainty of what's going on. This time, however, it feels rather plainly like a Deus ex Machina, and it feels quite like it happens exclusively to save Vince from trouble. This is also really compounded by Yami having a convenient bottle and then, in spite of doing pretty much everything short of actually fighting Lance, saying "Nah, you do it". It's not that any of this can't work, but simply that it feels super clunky in this state, which I think is probably a product of the pace. I would be very, very wary of using Yami as a get-out-of-jail card in any context, but I think the rest just needs more explanation: More build-up of the setting, proper foundation for what Yami is doing, explaining why he won't fight his brother, etc. You'll be able to work it out in time, but I think this part might need some inspection in terms of narrative structure.

13 hours ago, Tanjiro said:

May also showed up and said "Hey, i can fight too! Then she shot a few rockets out of her mechanical arm at the skeletons.

For much of the rest of the chapter, I think this bit kind of encapsulates the whole thing. The idea of the character is fine and there is at least a little bit of build-up, but it's coming very suddenly out of left field. There are quite a few parts that are like this- Magic not being explained, Lance's abilities to turn giant and summon skeletons, the spaceship, the robot, Yami's motivations, etc. I'm beginning to sound like a broken record I'm sure, but take the time to flesh things out. This whole thing is about 1.1k words, but a lot of the ideas here would really benefit from having at least half that long spent on each of them- This seems like a pretty significant chunk of a story here, but I still don't really understand what the main idea of the story is, what the focus of the story is, the world it's set in, etc.

I apologize for being harsh, but I really don't think it can be overstated to take your time. You will eventually find the right pace between drawling and speeding, but this ain't it yet.

As a couple general notes...

• Very minor, but the naming themes are a little confusing, most specifically with Yami and Lance; considering that they're siblings, I'd imagine that their names should be connected in some way; Lance is a western name, while Yami is Japanese. Perhaps there is a significance here I do not see, though.
• Try to work on the depth of your vocabulary; the language is generally quite plain and is definitely wanting for more colour and flavour. This should happen as you read and write more, though!
• If possible, try to work on your syntax; it's very blocky and static right now. Syntax is a really boring thing to look at, but it's also really important. As you read and write more, this should improve as well! The one specific thing I want to mention is the sentence "8 people died". It's really interesting because it's short length contrasts really sharply with the rest of the paragraph, so it stands out a lot. If you did that on purpose to draw attention to the collateral damage, this was an extremely effective way of doing it!
• Grammar and punctuation are a little spotty, but it doesn't disrupt my ability to understand what's going on; again, reading and writing will remedy this.
• I can't quite put my finger on exactly what makes it feel this way, but the story kind of feels really "edgy", but, like, in a "Shadow the Hedgehog" kind of way. Perhaps it's the way it seems to take itself pretty seriously clashing with the main character using "Ultimate Thunder Blade"? Not too sure. Regardless, it may be worth looking out for that, since overly edgy stuff tends to come across as juvenile or immature, which generally isn't what people go for when they write.

And lastly...

10 hours ago, Hrothgar777 said:

Most importantly of all, keep writing and keep practicing writing. Never get discouraged. Never quit.

Read a lot of novels so that you get a sense of how other people write stories.

^This. It's very stale advice to say that reading is the best way to learn how to write, but it's so true. It works best if you do it in tandem with your own writing, though! Make sure to use your creative muscles often on both sides of the book.

---

To be pendantic with my fellow reviewer, now:

10 hours ago, Hrothgar777 said:

Avoid prologues. A story shouldn't begin with a backstory.

I'd generally agree, although I think they can work OK as well; if I read a book and it starts with a prologue, I definitely wouldn't drop it immediately. Starting with the meat of things is most often good, though!

10 hours ago, Hrothgar777 said:

Why is this set on another planet when earth would suffice?

Well, there is magic and such, and it seems like travel is a big part of the story: I don't think it needs to be set on Earth to make sense. Plus, having a new planet kind of brings along with it a new creativity you can bring to it, since there aren't any preexisting cultures, and we have fewer expectations when we're introduced to something that's not Earth.

[Ace_]

On 2/19/2023 at 5:51 AM, Benice said:

One thing I will say right off the bat is that writing a full novel is hard. I've always loved storytelling ever since I was little, and, though chaotic, I thought myself to be quite the capable and mature writer by the age of 12, when I tried to write my first novel over the next year. At present, it is 252 pages, and it is awful- Parts of writing that don't come out as much in shorter stories are inflated to the nth degree in the context of a novel. Of course, part of it was that I was super young and my brain had sooo much growing to do (and it still does), but there are things I simply had not yet learned how to do when writing at that scale.

For example, planning. My strategy in every other story I'd told was generally to plan as little as possible: I wouldn't fill in the mind-map pages that teachers would hand out and avoided putting my ideas on a page as if it were the plague. This was sort of fine for what was asked of me at the time, but when it touched the novel, it translated to flight of ideas, incoherence, tonal inconsistency, abject lack of focus, a pace as consistent as my work ethic, and much more. What happened in my life came out directly onto the page, but without the ability to plan and know why I was writing, it just made everything a jumbled mess.

Additionally, things I simply considered unimportant to stories, like, y'know, THEMES, weren't considered at all. As mentioned above, I wanted to tell a story of adventure, of passion, joy, friendship, but I never actually had a purpose with the story itself- What was I saying with it, and why? Even if I were a flawless writer in terms of my ability to put words on a page, the story would still have been empty and purposeless.

There's a lot of reasons that my novel didn't turn out well (and I really need to go back and do a proper analysis of how much I did wrong with it), but certainly a large part of it is how rigorous of a test a novel is for a writer. I certainly applaud your ambition to write a novel, and I encourage you to go after it; however, I would be loath to tell you that it's the same as writing a short story, just longer. It's simply not true, from what I've gathered throughout my lifetime (Keep in mind I am young, though, and am far from an omnipotent being, as can probably be easy to see from how long-winded and confusing all my writing is).

I advise joining a literature class or club if you have access to one. The thing that has helped all of my writing the most by far is my AP English class- Where we don't do any creative writing at all. However, learning the mechanics of storytelling and properly analyzing works with "literary merit" has helped me so much, and I can only suggest that you try taking the same path. The Great Gatsby is a novel I can very highly recommend for this- It's pretty slow at face value, but there's a lot of really neat stuff to pull apart in it, and it's also quite short. Try looking up a list of literary devices, then pick a story that has one of those devices. Then:

1. Find a quote from the work that has that lit device in it
2. Briefly explain the context of what is happening in the quote
3. Fairly briefly explain how the quote is an example of that lit device
4. Explain how that device connects to the work as a whole

This is the exercise we do bi-weekly in the class, alongside poetry analysis, which I enjoy much less. It took me a couple months to really get to actually knowing what I was writing about, but it's helped me immensely. Attached here is an example of one of my more recent ones, if you're curious: LD#5.docx

 

With all that being said, I hope you don't feel discouraged- Writing a novel is not impossible! What we don't see when we read a good novel, though, is all the hours of work that authors put in to their works not just in terms of the novel itself, but the journey to writing that novel. Almost nobody jumps into novels with immediate success- One of the most successful authors in the modern era, Stephen King, was sending his short stories to magazines for years and years before getting any kind of attention from them. If you want to tell a grand, long story, that's fantastic! It doesn't have to be a novel, though: Forms such as collections of short-stories work splendidly as well, and help sort of condense the grandiosity of a novel into smaller, easier-to-digest chunks. As you learn as a writer and as a person, the maturity of both your work and your ability to plan and execute said work will develop and grow, but we don't generally learn to swim by being thrown into the deep-end of the pool. Be patient with yourself as you learn, and don't become to attached to it being a novel at the outset.

And, of course, make sure to read often!

 

...I need to learn to write in a more direct way, don't I? That's a lot of text before even going into specifics...

I agree with this- Your story presently feels a bit more like a summary with occasional dialogue thrown in. Try to take your time to expand on your characters and world, since at this pace, I personally don't know much about the setting, characters, or tone. Considering how much you're able to write of this storyline, I'm sure it's in your mind, but do make sure we have time to look at it before it leaves.

I personally don't think that chapters need to have a specific length to function, but text itself certainly should have a level of development regardless of the frame it's placed in.

Also a big agree on this! It's advice I have a hard time following, but if you want something to be conveyed to the reader, the characters and what they do should be what shows it. And if what you want from a character doesn't fit in to what they're saying, thinking, or doing, then... Well, then the character should probably change to suit the story as opposed to shoe-horning a character trait we want into our own story.

I apologize if I'm out of line here, since I am inexperienced, but I don't really agree with this, however: If you can't convey a character through what is happening, I don't think adding filler is a good way to provide characterization. Incorporating events into a story to highlight them is a bit more of a gray area to me, but I think it should be done with a fair bit of finesse and caution, lest it feel like the author is holding the story or character's hand along a predestined path. And speaking of which...

I personally rather dislike this bit. I think Vince being rescued the first time is fine- It adds to the mystery and uncertainty of what's going on. This time, however, it feels rather plainly like a Deus ex Machina, and it feels quite like it happens exclusively to save Vince from trouble. This is also really compounded by Yami having a convenient bottle and then, in spite of doing pretty much everything short of actually fighting Lance, saying "Nah, you do it". It's not that any of this can't work, but simply that it feels super clunky in this state, which I think is probably a product of the pace. I would be very, very wary of using Yami as a get-out-of-jail card in any context, but I think the rest just needs more explanation: More build-up of the setting, proper foundation for what Yami is doing, explaining why he won't fight his brother, etc. You'll be able to work it out in time, but I think this part might need some inspection in terms of narrative structure.

For much of the rest of the chapter, I think this bit kind of encapsulates the whole thing. The idea of the character is fine and there is at least a little bit of build-up, but it's coming very suddenly out of left field. There are quite a few parts that are like this- Magic not being explained, Lance's abilities to turn giant and summon skeletons, the spaceship, the robot, Yami's motivations, etc. I'm beginning to sound like a broken record I'm sure, but take the time to flesh things out. This whole thing is about 1.1k words, but a lot of the ideas here would really benefit from having at least half that long spent on each of them- This seems like a pretty significant chunk of a story here, but I still don't really understand what the main idea of the story is, what the focus of the story is, the world it's set in, etc.

I apologize for being harsh, but I really don't think it can be overstated to take your time. You will eventually find the right pace between drawling and speeding, but this ain't it yet.

As a couple general notes...

• Very minor, but the naming themes are a little confusing, most specifically with Yami and Lance; considering that they're siblings, I'd imagine that their names should be connected in some way; Lance is a western name, while Yami is Japanese. Perhaps there is a significance here I do not see, though.
• Try to work on the depth of your vocabulary; the language is generally quite plain and is definitely wanting for more colour and flavour. This should happen as you read and write more, though!
• If possible, try to work on your syntax; it's very blocky and static right now. Syntax is a really boring thing to look at, but it's also really important. As you read and write more, this should improve as well! The one specific thing I want to mention is the sentence "8 people died". It's really interesting because it's short length contrasts really sharply with the rest of the paragraph, so it stands out a lot. If you did that on purpose to draw attention to the collateral damage, this was an extremely effective way of doing it!
• Grammar and punctuation are a little spotty, but it doesn't disrupt my ability to understand what's going on; again, reading and writing will remedy this.
• I can't quite put my finger on exactly what makes it feel this way, but the story kind of feels really "edgy", but, like, in a "Shadow the Hedgehog" kind of way. Perhaps it's the way it seems to take itself pretty seriously clashing with the main character using "Ultimate Thunder Blade"? Not too sure. Regardless, it may be worth looking out for that, since overly edgy stuff tends to come across as juvenile or immature, which generally isn't what people go for when they write.

And lastly...

^This. It's very stale advice to say that reading is the best way to learn how to write, but it's so true. It works best if you do it in tandem with your own writing, though! Make sure to use your creative muscles often on both sides of the book.

---

To be pendantic with my fellow reviewer, now:

I'd generally agree, although I think they can work OK as well; if I read a book and it starts with a prologue, I definitely wouldn't drop it immediately. Starting with the meat of things is most often good, though!

Well, there is magic and such, and it seems like travel is a big part of the story: I don't think it needs to be set on Earth to make sense. Plus, having a new planet kind of brings along with it a new creativity you can bring to it, since there aren't any preexisting cultures, and we have fewer expectations when we're introduced to something that's not Earth.

Thank you so much for reading my story and giving me advice. I'll definitely make a lot of changes.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Tanjiro