Maddening DLC Tier List - Because I like arguing on the internet

[Dark Holy Elf]

7 hours ago, DaveCozy said:

Ivy S -> A; the more I use Ivy, the less I'm impressed by her honestly. She is prone to randomly blowing up to enemy crits, due to her low Dodge, and her speed is pretty suspect without help. None of these things are impossible to fix, and mind you she's still incredibly useful as a flying mage / staff user too. But I feel she is more A than S due to these issues.

 

As someone on the other end of how impressed they were by Ivy... It's pretty easy to fix Ivy's dodge as needed. Speed... depends what you want her to do, but it's incredibly easy to get her to the point where she doubles slow but bulky enemies that the rest of the team may have trouble one-rounding, like berserkers and great knights. If you're willing to dump speedwings and/or Lyn onto her she can double way more, but again, depends what you want her to do. But to me it seems almost unthinkable that an "optimum" team wouldn't make use of her, which sounds like S to me.

I also definitely think she belongs a tier above Pandreo, whose lack of flight can't really be "fixed" in the same way... you can make him a Griffin Knight but then he loses magic to Lindwurm Ivy by 9 (which is gonna cost a lot of ORKOs), and doesn't have 3 range.

[Colonel M]

4 hours ago, Skyteppelin said:

I agree that like when you compare them directly with DLC then Chloe is better even if imo its really just cause she gets the favoritism for all the stat boosters you have at this point. But the part that I'm a little lost on is how this makes Lapis worse? In a bubble sure if put them against each other then Chloe would come out on top but Lapis is the same as Chloe if you gave her the same treatment even if its just giving her the energy drop you get from chapter 10 or Para 1. Which would make Lapis just as good as her and they can even make benefits or different emblems so its not like they are eating into each other in that regard.

Lapis has a mediocre join chapter although I wouldn't call her useless cause she kills things and does good vs all 3 boss enemy. 

Idk what XS is.

She will be behind Kagetsu in Str although its not really all that big a difference even if there is one. Although once again factoring in DLC maps its stupid how much farther ahead you can get anyone that has access to tiki right away.

 

Well... it's also more that not a lot of LTCs have experimented with Tiki and the like.

She costs turns.

Lapis's problem in Chapter 7 is that she has to get to the boss, which units like Chloe can ignore a lot of the terrain pathway with Vander / Louis if needed.

XS is a user, sorry. I'd tag him but I don't know his Serenes name. He's been doing LTC at the moment with Chloe in his squad. I probably will follow up because of the new A Rank Lance that was released today.

Will say Pandreo is an interesting hot topic as of late though. One thing he does have is B Staves as a Griffin Knight - something a lot of units can't replicate either.

[Xylaugheon Daily]

So, assuming we are doing a Maddening LTC, would grabbing Soren be worth it? With Flare Tanking you don't need to worry about not having Michaiah for team eating, making all those chapters without her that much easier. Literally just a thought, as I haven't even considered LTCs at this point.

[Colonel M]

1 hour ago, Xylaugheon Daily said:

So, assuming we are doing a Maddening LTC, would grabbing Soren be worth it? With Flare Tanking you don't need to worry about not having Michaiah for team eating, making all those chapters without her that much easier. Literally just a thought, as I haven't even considered LTCs at this point.

In the most strictest of LTCs, no.

The issue with LTCs in a very strict sense is that you have to do Tiki first. While Tiki does give a few perks, she eats up a lot of turns in the process.

If the LTC assumes all Paralogues visited, something I'll look into - there might be a mild amount of merit for it, but the issue is that for the map I would consider it most on (Chapter 22?), you wouldn't have Hold Out on Veyle for example.

For Efficiency's sake - obviously safer to assume we get it.

All that said the issue is that there aren't a lot of instances where you eat hits on Enemy Phase. There are instances and it may save turns in an all Paralogue LTC, but atm it isn't explored. I would tentatively say no for now.

[DaveCozy]

I'm probably down on the Ivy rollercoaster haha, I definitely think she's a really good unit. At one point I even thought she was the best in the game, so I'm definitely at a low point seeing her get crit twice in ch14... haha 😞

But I can agree with leaving her at S. I'll reply to the other points as I get to them between my schedule.

19 hours ago, Colonel M said:

Fogado I think is one I want to see if he can sort of get around. Cupido is still pretty good for a class just because the bases are just good enough, and Bow access is still powerful. I think Fogado's problem is no one really uses him a lot long-term or he needs a few extra things to patch him up. I know Warrior was good for a while, but I wouldn't do Warrior again because you can just do Cupido for Bow shenanigans.

I tried Fogado as Warrior and tbh, I was not impressed. It might seem like a good fit just to get him going with more strength, which he is lacking in admittedly, but I realized later on in my run that his strength just doesn't matter much. Wyverns by around ch21 that you want to OHKO don't even fall to Silver Bow+5, not without something like 35 Strength, which is highly excessive in LTC and efficiency contexts. Doubling speed for them is also 35, but on the other hand something that is much easier to reach with Mulagir from Lyn's emblem. And you don't even need a bow class to use that bow either, so Warrior isn't even necessary for that. You can simply use Lyn on a Wyvern Chloe, Lapis, Kagetsu, etcetera instead.

On the other hand, Radiant Bow+4 is capable of OHKOing Wyverns in Ch21 with just 15 magic. Fogado at 17/11 Cupido on average will be at 12 magic, which is a very easy difference to make up with a meal, an instruct from Byleth, and so on. Most notably, Cupido Fogado at the same level has 27 speed, and is just a Dragon/Covert Byleth instruct shy of doubling Zephia in that chapter, or if engaged with Eirika, quadding her with a Brave Bow; 8x4 from Lunar Brace in damage + 5x4 from Bravery in damage = 52 total added damage (this is assuming bond level 18). Just 8 points shy of one rounding Zephia, which he can easily make up with instruct or chain attacks helping (or possibly even with just his own strength helping).

What I'm getting at with this. I really think that Cupido > Warrior as far as Fogado goes. Definitely do Cupido instead, I think it's a much better class for him that gives him very strong player phase presence. He's also a very strong Eirika user as I've shown just off that one chapter, and scales well beyond too. Roy can work well with him too, though not as well, but he's also a decent option.

Edited March 8, 2023 by DaveCozy
note on bond level for Eirika