So...let's talk tiers.

[Clonez]

Shiida can move up because she can reclass to Mage/Sage. That way, she gets 35% magic growth, plus retaining her speed growth and speed base. As a Sage, she heals too. She's probably going to be the best Mage/Sage assuming Merric goes Curate early on.

If she sucks at HP/STR/DEF, give her a class where that doesn't matter. Shiida up pls.

Edited December 17, 2008 by Clonez

[Swordsalmon]

Because normal mode doesn't exist, here's the tier list IOS and I've pretty much made since October.

Assuming HM5. Marth, Chainy, Gato, and new characters excluded.

Manly Epic:

Jeigan

Gigashu

Mishelean

Top:

Generic Prepromotes

Rena

Zagarro

Abel

Wolf

Kain

Barts

High:

Sheeda

Oguma

Hardain

Wendel

Riff

Marich

Navarre

Julian

Daros

Mid:

Jeigan

Gordon

Doga

Maria

Biraku

Minerva

Marchis

Kashim

Beck

Roshe

Katua

Paola

Maji

Jake

Ceasar

Chiki

Low:

Ricardo

Saji

Raddy

Bantou

Roger

George

Astria

Boa

Medea

Samson

Tomth

Michelan

Lawrance

Bottom:

Linda

Est

Aran

Ellis

Thomas

[Rodykitty]

Clint Eastwood:

Sedgar

Merric

Chainey

Top:

Wolf

Cain

Abel

Barst

Ogma

Hardin

High:

Lena

Shiida

Jagen

Wrys

Castor

Nagi

Up Mid:

Catria

Marth

Julian

Jake

Gotoh

Wendell

Horace

Nabarl

Beck

Low Mid:

Gordin

Draug

Ceaser

Maji

Paola

Daros

Roger

Low:

Jeorge

Maria

Matthis

Samson

Etzel

Bottom:

Boah

Midia

Dolph

Macellan

Athena

Arran

Astram

Ymir

Bord

Rickard

Vyland

Radd

Tiki

Bantu

Minerva

Linde

Elice

Lorenz

Roshea

Tomas

Fail:

Est

This is the current Beserker Blader-made tier list for H5, still subject to change.

[thunderstrife]

It seems sort of pointless to tier units for normal mode, High: Everyone, Low: Est <_<

But seriously, and in NM it is no longer relevant that Zagaro is a beast, because it's at the point where it's overkill, so his usefulness is matched but alot of the 'high' tier, and even some 'mid', =/

Just my two cents. A H5 tier list would be relatively more interesting to debate, or even H2-3, if we want to avoid the 'omg Zagaro+Chainy Zagaro are ze onli gud unitzzzzz, u dun need ne1 else!' argument.

[Dat Nick]

"Shiida can move up because she can reclass to Mage/Sage. That way, she gets 35% magic growth, plus retaining her speed growth and speed base. As a Sage, she heals too. She's probably going to be the best Mage/Sage assuming Merric goes Curate early on.

If she sucks at HP/STR/DEF, give her a class where that doesn't matter. Shiida up pls."

You realize Mage is the only reason she ISNT bottom tier, right?

[Clonez]

You realize Mage is the only reason she ISNT bottom tier, right?

How in the world does that make sense?

If both Shiida and Merric are Clerics, Merric has a 5% Magic advantage, while Shiida has much more speed and a slight level lead, which is important due to the fact the earlygame is the hardest part of the game. Yet, they are 3 tiers apart.

[Rodykitty]

Shiida would be used as a Mage, not a Cleric. She's mostly an attacker as a Mage, and as a Mage is the class with higher offensive growths than any of her physical classes.

[Clonez]

You could say the same thing about Merric, since reclassing him as Cleric means he'll lose Excalibur until promotion, a weapon which can OHKO/leave a massive dent on multiple units. And a much less magic growth.

Edited December 18, 2008 by Clonez

[Rodykitty]

No, I can't say the same thing about Merric, because Shiida doesn't benefit from being a Cleric.

[Dat Nick]

"If both Shiida and Merric are Clerics, Merric has a 5% Magic advantage, while Shiida has much more speed and a slight level"

lol, speed on a cleric. And again, that lead doesn't matter until after promotion. Even then it won't matter because Merric still doubles everything. Not to mention Shiida can't use Excalibur after promotion.

[Clonez]

Merric has a 20% magic growth as a Cleric, while Shiida has 15%.

Am I missing something here? If they're both Clerics, they both crappy Magic, but a bunch of EXP.

After promotion, Shiida has Aura. Aura does 5 more damage than Excalibur.

Edited December 18, 2008 by Clonez

[thunderstrife]

Merric has a 20% magic growth as a Cleric, while Shiida has 15%.

Am I missing something here? If they're both Clerics, they both crappy Magic, but a bunch of EXP.

After promotion, Shiida has Aura. Aura does 5 more damage than Excalibur.

WHAT YOURE MISSING IS THAT NO ONE IS SAYING YOU SHOULD TURN HER INTO A GODDAMN CLERIC, THAT'S WHAT YOURE MISSING.

Caps for emphasis. They're recommending you turn her to a MAGE.

And she doesn't get Aura after promotion, if you leveled her as a cleric, because she still doesn't have a B in tomes, she has like E or something... Aura is females only but all units besides Linda need a B in tomes to use it. It's like a semi-personal weapon...

Edited December 18, 2008 by thunderstrife

[Clonez]

Read the quote moar.

Who cares what they recommend? Merric doesn't have a 3 tier advantage on Shiida, regardless of class.

[Rodykitty]

Yes he does. He can actually take hits. Shiida cannot.

[Clonez]

Because a Cleric, who has no offensive options and is normally in the back lines healing, should be taking hits.

[thunderstrife]

Yea, Sheeda isn't good, she's outclassed in every class <_<;

And Still, why are you making her a cleric? she doesn't make a good cleric... Lena and Maric outclass her as Cleric.

Edited December 18, 2008 by thunderstrife

[Clonez]

I'm not arguing that Shiida is top tier, I'm saying she's not low or bottom.

And yes, a 5% magic growth advantage of Merric and Lena is a 2 tier advantage.

Edited December 18, 2008 by Clonez

[Dat Nick]

Tell somebody who cares. The enemies certiantly don't.

Also, Shiida is locked to fire/thunder for quite some time once she promotes. Merric has a D as Sage, VERY close to C, so she has offense issues even when she can attack. Merric has none since Excalibur is there. Why should Shiida go any higher? She's a mediocre magic user. Merric is an amazing magic user. The three tier gap is completely justified.

Also, who cares about the magic? Shiida will one round things later on, but before promotion and after it she's meh. And this is remidied..why? Because she can heal? So can Gordin, if I make him a curate. So there is not a 6 tier gap between merric and gordin. Lol. The lead on Lena is also justified since Lena blows for anything but Hammerene latergame.

Let's spell this out for you since you're having a ridcliously hard time comprehending it.

-Can do nothing but heal earlygame

-Doesn't get the first seal, Merric's entitled to that

-May not get the SECOND seal since that yoinks it away from one of your fighters

-Struggles with offense when she promotes

-Struggles with defense forever

-Takes forever to get decent magic [11 mag at 20/20? That might actually be a PROBLEM]

Smash that all together...and that very much resembles a low tier character. No real pros, lots of cons. She's lucky she is where she is. now please stop harping on 5% magic and start posting something relevant.

Edited December 18, 2008 by Berserkah2DaBladah

[Rodykitty]

And yes, a 5% magic growth advantage of Merric and Lena is a 2 tier advantage.

Merric having good growth in HP and at least some Defense growth is a two tier advantage.

[Clonez]

All Sages have D in Magic...

And 50% in HP and 10 in DEF is clearly a sign for "omfg I can take the hits even though chances are I'll be in the back healing."

Edited December 18, 2008 by Clonez

[Rodykitty]

And 50% in HP and 10 in DEF is clearly a sign for "omfg I can take the hits."

Maric has 60% HP growth as a Curate.

Also, we know Maric can take hits because he freaking can. He averages HP in the 30+'s upon promotion, and it's been proven he can actually survive an attack from an H5 enemy. This makes him a very flexible unit because you don't have to put a wall around him all the time.

[Dat Nick]

You truly underestimate the fail of NM enemies. Merric can be in the front and run little to no risk of dying. He can even dodge a few hits since NM enemy hit doesn't go into the triple digits. Point being he's not going to get killed even if you try.

All Sages have D in Magic...

Merric's gets extra WEXP from it since he already had a D in magic.

EDIT: Oh look, enemy stats time.

C17 cavs: 27 atk

Merric, 20/7 [And this is lower than what he probably should be]: 41 HP, 7 def

He's juuuust barely squeezing out a 3HKO on a cavalier. And this is freaking Hard 5.

Edited December 18, 2008 by Berserkah2DaBladah

[Clonez]

Because we want Curates to be not put around walls since they have amazing offensive and defensive options.

And because a slight advantage in WEXP is so important, considering you can forge thanks to countless funds and enemies have 0 resistance.

Edited December 18, 2008 by Clonez

[Rodykitty]

Stop judging him by Curate alone. He's going to be a Sage by the time you get your first Master Seal. Until then, yes, he's healing, but even as a healer he'll fare better in durability than say, Rena or Wrys.

[Dat Nick]

Because we want Curates to be not put around walls since they have amazing offensive and defensive options.

He's not staying a curate forever. We're talking about promotion, here. A mage who can survive on the frontlines and can one round everything>>one who can't but can one round everything

When you're damn near to the next level of WEXP, which is the total opposite of a slight advantage? Yes, it is imporant. He's ten WEXP away from C for crying out loud.

Anyway, I enjoy a good debate, but you, sir, are not a good debater. Everything we say goes in one ear and out the other, and all you ever do is rehash the same arguments over and over again. Get new material, or get out.

Edited December 18, 2008 by Berserkah2DaBladah