The Chapter 12 Wall

[Hrothgar777]

(Because I'm sure I'll get a lot of judging assumptions for this topic, let me clarify that I beat Three Houses twice, along with Awakening and Fates previously. I might be an average gamer, but I'm not a terrible gamer.)

 

So, to make a long story short, I bought Engage a few months ago. Due to life circumstances I stopped around chapter 6 or 7 before resuming it about a week or so ago. I did at least 2 battles for level grinding between chapters, and chapters 10 was a breeze. It was surprisingly easy. Then I did chapter 11, which was perhaps slightly more difficult but nothing too bad. And yes, I lacked emblem rings in 11 but was still able to clear it in one attempt without pulling my hair out.

After completing 11, I saved and turned it off. I went to bed, woke up the next day, worked, and then picked it back up late this evening, expecting the game to be the same. There was, of course, no logical reason to think the game wouldn't be exactly the same: a slight difficulty increase from the last round of skirmishes I partook in. With the emphasis here being on "slight".

 

...But instead, hell was rained down upon my party. When I reloaded the game this evening, I found that every enemy now has silver weapons, their defense seems to be inexplicably buffed vs. chapter 11, my attacks seem way weaker, and the map is flooded with an ungodly quantity of opponents that I have to defeat or else I lose.

Ironically, the only battle I've been able to win tonight was Lucina's paralogue. A sensible person would imagine a paralogue to be harder than the typical skirmish at the same point in the game that it's first offered, but in this case the number of enemies was far, far lower.

It's almost as if Nintendo booby-trapped my game's software to make proceeding nearly impossible once I hit chapter 12. What I've witnessed tonight defies all conventions of how to scale difficulty in video games. I can't imagine the people who've been making games for this franchise for 32 years to miscalculate this so wildly.

 

At this point, it's worth seriously asking a question that I never thought I'd have to ask: did I inadvertently do something that caused the game to suddenly hike the toughness of skirmishes? If so, is there any way to reverse it?

[Hrothgar777]

And yes, it was set on the lowest difficulty. I even tried to adjust it, just to be told it couldn't be altered because it was on the lowest difficulty.

[Florete]

Are you sure it's Ch 12? The desert map where you recruit Fogado, Pandreo, and Bunet? Because that map isn't a commonly-cited 'wall.' Ch 13 could be, though.

Assuming it is, you'll have just recruited Ivy, Kagetsu, and Zelkov in the previous map, all of whom will be great here. Ivy flies around and Kagetsu is just a massive stat ball. Try not to let anyone except fliers end their turn over the quicksand. Give Lyn to someone with good Str so you can snipe any problematic enemy off the map (the swordmaster with the Levin Sword could be a good option). Use Lucina's Bonded Shield if you desperately need to tank some hits.

I don't mean to sound condescending, but I'm not sure what could have happened for Ch 10 to be easy for you but Ch 12 to be like this. Ch 12 doesn't even have a proper boss, while Ch 10 has 3.

[BloodRonin]

skirms scales based on your units strengths as a whole. 

[ciphertul]

1 hour ago, BloodRonin said:

skirms scales based on your units strengths as a whole. 

 Not quite true, it’s base off of you top level units. The top 8-12 depending on location.

[Dayni]

13 minutes ago, ciphertul said:

 Not quite true, it’s base off of you top level units. The top 8-12 depending on location.

Well, that explains that.

This OP felt not too dissimilar to what I saw in my first playthrough (on Hard mind) trying to train everyone for a hot minute, ended up pulling back from Chapter 12 to do 10-11 again and drop some.

Engage is not a game where I feel it's worth training everyone because of how the skirmishes are handled. Oh well.

[ciphertul]

2 minutes ago, Punished Dayni said:

Well, that explains that.

This OP felt not too dissimilar to what I saw in my first playthrough (on Hard mind) trying to train everyone for a hot minute, ended up pulling back from Chapter 12 to do 10-11 again and drop some.

Engage is not a game where I feel it's worth training everyone because of how the skirmishes are handled. Oh well.

Yeah the skirmishes where handled incredibly bad here. Which kinda hurts if you like leveling everyone.

[Armchair General]

10 hours ago, Hrothgar777 said:

I did at least 2 battles for level grinding between chapters,

This is where you went wrong if you didn't invest in an uber-strong tank

 

10 hours ago, Hrothgar777 said:

Ironically, the only battle I've been able to win tonight was Lucina's paralogue. A sensible person would imagine a paralogue to be harder than the typical skirmish at the same point in the game that it's first offered, but in this case the number of enemies was far, far lower.

Without spoiling anything, this is actually the easiest one of the 12. 

 

10 hours ago, Hrothgar777 said:

But instead, hell was rained down upon my party. When I reloaded the game this evening, I found that every enemy now has silver weapons, their defense seems to be inexplicably buffed vs. chapter 11, my attacks seem way weaker, and the map is flooded with an ungodly quantity of opponents that I have to defeat or else I lose.

Well, it's kinda an given that you're going to lose. Like, all you have for defense is generating some chaff units by engaging with Lyn or using Lucina to protect someone.

Ike's Great Aether can wreck some havoc in the skirmishes, especially if they're armored. Byleth occasionally grants an free reroll and allows up to 4 people to move again. Corrin is extremely situational. And the twins turns an sword unit into an untouchable dodge tank.

 

11 hours ago, Hrothgar777 said:

What I've witnessed tonight defies all conventions of how to scale difficulty in video games. I can't imagine the people who've been making games for this franchise for 32 years to miscalculate this so wildly.

I might have seen worse; but that was from me taking an in that DQ 4 remake.

 

11 hours ago, Hrothgar777 said:

At this point, it's worth seriously asking a question that I never thought I'd have to ask: did I inadvertently do something that caused the game to suddenly hike the toughness of skirmishes?

Well, you've progressed through the story too fast and now you're paying for it; at least until you get at least two or three characters who are capable of actually winning the fights for you.

11 hours ago, Hrothgar777 said:

If so, is there any way to reverse it?

Keep playing them, keep dying, keep restarting the fights with the exp you've already earned, keep investing in the countries to buy more second seals.

As long as you aren't playing on Classic, you should be fine.

[Hrothgar777]

Quote

 

This is where you went wrong if you didn't invest in an uber-strong tank

 

Let me clarify that with the exception of Vander, everybody's at least level 16 (or they were, before I recently class changed Alear, Alfred, and Clanne). And when I say "at least 2 per chapter", that's speaking of roughly chapters 8-10. My average was higher before this.

Quote

 

Without spoiling anything, this is actually the easiest one of the 12. 

 

Alright, fair enough. The enemies were overpowered akin to the new skirmish matches. but they were also few in number.

Quote

 

Well, it's kinda an given that you're going to lose. Like, all you have for defense is generating some chaff units by engaging with Lyn or using Lucina to protect someone.

 

If you're talking about armor, then fair enough. IIRC only Louis and Vander qualify.

Quote

 

Well, you've progressed through the story too fast and now you're paying for it

 

Again, though, chapter 11 wasn't that hard. I did leave before killing them all, but I wasn't struggling much against the enemies I did fight. I'm literally talking the difference between one battle and then the very next. And this gap was shockingly enormous.

Quote

 

Keep playing them, keep dying, keep restarting the fights with the exp you've already earned

 

This is solid advice. If the game lets you keep the EXP from skirmishes you lose, then that changes everything.

But what are the consequences of losing? Do you forfeit items?

Edited May 18, 2023 by Hrothgar777

[LoneStar]

The skirmishes in this game are pretty bad. I was doing the train everyone thing on my first Hard play through, but quickly realized than it was way more effort than it was worth. The game is indirectly telling you to just focus on a core set of units and move on with things. I don't think you should need to grind at the end of the day, but that's just me. One thing messing around with the skirmishes did was put me in tight situations and I had to really have a solid strategy to get through the maps. So I more so improved my skills at the core game rather than just getting more numbers on my units.

Some maps aren't too rough, like skirmishes in the chapter 12 map are fine because the sand slows down the enemies, unless there are fliers of course. If you leave the skirmishes alone until your units can steamroll them, they're a good source to get extra materials, mostly Silver.

Also I'm a little confused @Hrothgar777 are you having trouble with chapter 12 or is it just the skirmishes?

[Hrothgar777]

2 minutes ago, LoneStar said:

The skirmishes in this game are pretty bad. I was doing the train everyone thing on my first Hard play through, but quickly realized than it was way more effort than it was worth. The game is indirectly telling you to just focus on a core set of units and move on with things. I don't think you should need to grind at the end of the day, but that's just me. One thing messing around with the skirmishes did was put me in tight situations and I had to really have a solid strategy to get through the maps. So I more so improved my skills at the core game rather than just getting more numbers on my units.

Some maps aren't too rough, like skirmishes in the chapter 12 map are fine because the sand slows down the enemies, unless there are fliers of course. If you leave the skirmishes alone until your units can steamroll them, they're a good source to get extra materials, mostly Silver.

Also I'm a little confused @Hrothgar777 are you having trouble with chapter 12 or is it just the skirmishes?

The skirmishes. I haven't tried the chapter yet, under the assumption that it would be harder than the skirmishes.

But, having read more from here and the internet, it seems the reverse may in fact be true: that the skirmishes automatically get harder as you level up, whereas the main story battles are at a fixed difficulty.

[Armchair General]

1 hour ago, Hrothgar777 said:

But what are the consequences of losing?

Nothing but your time.

1 hour ago, Hrothgar777 said:

Do you forfeit items?

No, iirc.