Of miscreants and their immature behaviors

[Judas]

Are you just ignoring my posts or do you agree with me?

I believe I've responded to most of them, directly or indirectly. I apologize if I have not, it's hard keeping up with all the posts that disagree with me so I just generally take the ones I figure allow me to cross the most ground with one response.

You're allowed to disagree with the staff, but I think Jyosua meant that you aren't really helping anything with what you're saying and doing.

Just expressing opinion. If it doesn't make me popular, well, like every episode of those shitty preteen dramas, YOU MUST SAY WHAT IS RIGHT EVEN IF IT ISNT POPULAR etc.

[Masu]

That seems to be the case. However I appreciate his wording a lot better this way. Otherwise it would be like those oh-so-lovable ATTN/Call out topics, which are against the rules now I may add.

While I'm here, any who feel the need to play the FESS race card here while claiming natural SF people are getting off easy, consider this:

Thunder Lord and Knife were both suspended for fighting in one topic when Knife came back.

MS and Lyle were given that wonderful time-out by Arc when that certain topic got out of hand.

And need I remind you of what became of Serene and Suzaku?

Yeah. Lyle and I got suspended for arguing too much. Serene and Suzaku got BANNED. so dont shout about how SF doesnt get their punishment. we get it with full force.

hika and shuuda were also suspended now that I remember

Edited December 7, 2008 by Tsuna

[Eltoshen]

I believe I've responded to most of them, directly or indirectly. I apologize if I have not, it's hard keeping up with all the posts that disagree with me so I just generally take the ones I figure allow me to cross the most ground with one response.

Just expressing opinion. If it doesn't make me popular, well, like every episode of those shitty preteen dramas, YOU MUST SAY WHAT IS RIGHT EVEN IF IT ISNT POPULAR etc.

You would listen to a preteen drama?In any case, it's not the best idea to start off with a big "BOOM I'M HERE, AND I'M MAD!"

You basically skipped the whole, "Now, wait up. Would you reconsider?"

[Florete]

I believe I've responded to most of them, directly or indirectly. I apologize if I have not, it's hard keeping up with all the posts that disagree with me so I just generally take the ones I figure allow me to cross the most ground with one response.

Okay, I understand that. It's just that I felt I had addressed some issues you were complaining about and you didn't seem to notice.

And it turns out it was only one post on page 2.

Just expressing opinion. If it doesn't make me popular, well, like every episode of those shitty preteen dramas, YOU MUST SAY WHAT IS RIGHT EVEN IF IT ISNT POPULAR etc.

Good thing I never watched those, because that isn't always the case.

[Paradox]

Paradox! That aside:

LG, come on, you know this is a blatantly prejudiced and discrimatory statement. Your focus is on we former FESSers over the entire memberbase. You've divided SF from FESS, and that's a big no-no. Your announcement should stand for all members of SF, not just the few FESSers who are causing problems, of which I can only think of... two? Maybe three? I don't appreciate former FESSers being generalized as trolls who've come to tear this site down.

I've been summoned!

But seriously, Fox's little quip here is something to consider. Some FESSers seem to see SF members as being generally immature and less intelligent. SF members on the other hand seem to think that FESSers are rude trolls and thus immature.

Both sides dismiss each other pretty quickly, but that doesn't mean the site administration should side automatically with the SF members. Perhaps some consideration as to the extreme egalitarian standards is to be taken.

Lord Glenn didn't want to mention any individuals. You should grateful.

BTW if he did he might have hurt your feelings. *points to your sig*

I doubt feelings would have been hurt, but even if they had it would have been better. He would have been handling things accurately, directly, and maturely. People's feelings don't need to be protected if they're being idiots, though I guess that's not one of the Serene Forest tenets anyway, so keep on keepin' on generalizing as whole, creating a division of groups and furthering the 'FESSers are mean omg ;_;' mentality that is already causing any post by a FESSer to be radically blown out of proportion whether the intent is to troll or not.

. We could go even further to identify them all being from "The Ashtray" as well or instead, but I doubt you'd like that very much, now would you?

Can you say 'Badge of Honor'?

[Judas]

You would listen to a preteen drama?In any case, it's not the best idea to start off with a big "BOOM I'M HERE, AND I'M MAD!"

You basically skipped the whole, "Now, wait up. Would you reconsider?"

I've maintained a level of respect throughout this "discourse". I'm not calling anyone an idiot, for example. I'm just saying that I disagree with the post Lord Glenn made. ;3

[flyingace24]

I didn't read all of the posts in this topic, but I just want to say one thing. I personally find it really stupid that you guys are considering yourselves separate groups (FESS members and SF members). It's a shame that even the staff sees it as such. You are all SF members.

[Jyosua]

I believe I've responded to most of them, directly or indirectly. I apologize if I have not, it's hard keeping up with all the posts that disagree with me so I just generally take the ones I figure allow me to cross the most ground with one response.

Just expressing opinion. If it doesn't make me popular, well, like every episode of those shitty preteen dramas, YOU MUST SAY WHAT IS RIGHT EVEN IF IT ISNT POPULAR etc.

Judas, your only redeeming feature in this thread is the hot girl in your avatar. I'm locking this until I get back. I need to get a Christmas Tree.

I added a disclaimer to Glenn's post. Happy now?

[Beigeen]

I've realized I'm the one responsible for all this internet drama. The funny thing is that I remember telling Josh about how much I hated internet drama and wanted to avoid it as much as possible. Now I came into the forums he's taking care off and caused this whole mess;it's impossible to deny how much of a hypocrite I am. For this I'd like to apologize formally. I'm sorry Josh; I don't deserve the respect you have given me by listening to my opinions and the tolerance you have given to my irresponsible flaming. I would also like to apologize to the moderators and administrators of Serenes; some of which I have known for a while, and certainly did not deserve to have to work overtime for my flaming. I'll also extend my apologize to the members of Serenes, while I do have the right to say my opinion; I do not have the right to insult you for it.

I still mean what I said; but it isn't what I meant nor what I said. It is the way in which I said it. I still think those drawings are not artwork and have a great amount of flaws in them. Paying 10 bucks for them is a complete ripoff Yet, instead of just saying those words; I went on and made a full on rant filled with rage. I could blame the "heat of the moment" but I'm better than that. There is no excuse for stating both the facts and my opinions in such a an offensive way. Even if what the community is doing isn't of help (aka just giving it thumbs up without any formal help and desire for improvement) what I did isn't either. I'll do better (actually I already did; I've give proper criticism in a few threads now).

tl;dr? I'm very sorry for my actions.

Edited December 7, 2008 by Mad Fredin

[Florete]

I've realized I'm the one responsible for all this internet drama. The funny thing is that I remember telling Josh about how much I hated internet drama and wanted to avoid it as much as possible. Now I came into the forums he's taking care off and caused this whole mess;it's impossible to deny how much of a hypocrite I am. For this I'd like to apologize formally. I'm sorry Josh; I don't deserve the respect you have given me by listening to my opinions

and the tolerance you have given to my irresponsible flaming. I would also like to apologize to the moderators and administrators of Serenes; some of which I have known for a while, and certainly did not deserve to have to work overtime for my flaming. I'll also extend my apologize to the members of Serenes, while I do have the right to say my opinion; I do not have the right to insult you for it.

I still mean what I said; but it isn't what I meant nor what I said. It is the way in which I said it. I still think those drawings are not artwork and have a great amount of flaws in them. Paying 10 bucks for them is a complete ripoff Yet, instead of just saying those words; I went on and made a full on rant filled with rage. I could blame the "heat of the moment" but I'm better than that. There is no excuse for stating both the facts and my opinions in such a an offensive way. Even if what the community is doing isn't of help (aka just giving it thumbs up without any formal help

and desire for improvement) what I did isn't either. I'll do better (actually I already did; I've give proper criticism in a few threads now).

tl;dr? I'm very sorry for my actions.

I forgive you if you're truly sorry, which you seem to be.

I must admit, I do agree the payment thing entirely is a total ripoff, but when I first noticed it, people were fine with it, so I let it go. Then again, I'm the kind of person who wouldn't pay a single cent for even "great" art. I'm no great artist myself, so I can't point out flaws, but I do tend to like what I see.

In short, I'll forgive you if you don't act up like that again.

[Judge Judy]

tl;dr? I'm very sorry for my actions.

Ah its okay...

[Masu]

I've realized I'm the one responsible for all this internet drama. The funny thing is that I remember telling Josh about how much I hated internet drama and wanted to avoid it as much as possible. Now I came into the forums he's taking care off and caused this whole mess;it's impossible to deny how much of a hypocrite I am. For this I'd like to apologize formally. I'm sorry Josh; I don't deserve the respect you have given me by listening to my opinions

and the tolerance you have given to my irresponsible flaming. I would also like to apologize to the moderators and administrators of Serenes; some of which I have known for a while, and certainly did not deserve to have to work overtime for my flaming. I'll also extend my apologize to the members of Serenes, while I do have the right to say my opinion; I do not have the right to insult you for it.

I still mean what I said; but it isn't what I meant nor what I said. It is the way in which I said it. I still think those drawings are not artwork and have a great amount of flaws in them. Paying 10 bucks for them is a complete ripoff Yet, instead of just saying those words; I went on and made a full on rant filled with rage. I could blame the "heat of the moment" but I'm better than that. There is no excuse for stating both the facts and my opinions in such a an offensive way. Even if what the community is doing isn't of help (aka just giving it thumbs up without any formal help

and desire for improvement) what I did isn't either. I'll do better (actually I already did; I've give proper criticism in a few threads now).

tl;dr? I'm very sorry for my actions.

to tell the truth i didnt expect this. I am still upset about the choice words you used but you maned up and apologized which i respect. good looks.

[Beigeen]

I'm no great artist myself, so I can't point out flaws.

This statement is completely untrue. The only thing you need to be able to point out flaws is understanding why something is a flaw and explaining a possible way to fix it (doesn't mean you need to be able to fix them yourself). What I do believe is a must for proper criticism is understanding of basic artistic theory (to be able to point out the flaws properly) and art process (to be able to tell people how to fix them). Sometimes even just pointing out the flaws is enough; the fixing comes from practice and patience.

If you're interested in learning some basic art theory I can easily teach you the basic concepts that you need to do a formal critique.

Edited December 7, 2008 by Mad Fredin

[Superbus]

I haven't even read the topic, but I don't feel I have to, because I know what it's going to be: the SF guys going "YEAH FUCK THE FESSERS", and four or five old FESSers - some who didn't post much in the first place - defending themselves on the Blacken Ticket ("I'm just being blunt, you're all fags who can't take the heat").

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate because what I've seen from a lot of SF's regular members is pathetic.

Simply put, it's been a long, long time since I've seen a memberbase be this insular, and this hostile, and this unreasonable. It seems like anytime someone says something unpopular to the membership at large - whether it's from someone reasonable like myself, or from someone more acerbic like Fredin or Blacken, or even your own freaking staff - you all band together and just attack without even thinking about it, and what mature attacks they are. "You LOSER! You fucking faggot fag fuck fuck faggot loser fuckfag!" is about the majority of what I've heard. Now, yes, a lot of those attacks were provoked by certain ex-FESSers who don't know when the fuck to shut up and back off, and frankly, I'm tired of telling those people how to behave; shit, that's why FESS closed in the first place, because I was tired of telling certain members how to not be a dick. But it seems like no one here can even take a hint of honest criticism without calling for his suspension, banning, what have you. The art thread where whatsherface was trying to sell her art is a good example; while I'd be pissed if I was any of the two Joshes about someone trying to sell commissions on my board, someone came in afterwards and tried giving honest crit, and was hammered from hell to high water about it. Someone claimed that the person had no "humanity". Are you fucking kidding me? No humanity would be someone going to her house and shooting her. Saying her art sucks - whether it does or not is irrelevant - is an opinion.

But no, it's all the FESSers! It's our faults! I won't buy that bullshit, because I don't know how many times Josh or Josh had to tell people to cut the shit and stop trying to incite the flames; right after that - not only in that thread, but anywhere that they have to be a staff member and land on someone - half the responses continue to do just that, while the other half goes on to dissent right in that staff member's face; you even have one moderator (Red Ring of Fire) that does a good enough job herself of stirring the pot. You guys can't take that shit to PM? It's not just that you're young; our young members were better behaved. No wonder you want the board to stay the way it was; it's practically lawless, and it's already starting to wear down the admins!

Honestly, I regret sending my members here. Not just because a few of the old hands continue to stir the pot for no other reason than to have something to lawl over (and really, the administration should consider banning them, if only because I don't see this situation improving with that select few, not because you harpies won't shut the fuck up about them), but because my members will always have a stigma in the eyes of the lot of you. I can't believe none of you have grown up yet. Frankly, I consider my decision a mistake, and it's going to take a lot for me to reconsider that.

So how are you all going to respond? Are you going to call for my banning? Tell me I'm a loser? Call me names? Go for it; I'm Superbus, I'm owed a lot more than I owe, trust me on that. Or are you all going to read what I have to say, consider it among yourselves, and see if maybe you can handle your issues in a mature fashion, instead of resorting to pitchforks and torches?

[Lord Glenn]

I leave to relax and have fun on my last weekend at college before break, and I come back to this? Can no one behave for a day?

People want specifics? Fine, I'll play along. I purposefully made the announcement broad so that the people in question would understand and so that other people wouldn't jump on board.

But, if this is what you want...

The reason I made this topic is because RECENTLY, there have been at least four members from FESS that explicitly have been posting to cause trouble on the the forums. Yes, people cause "trouble" all across SF, I won't deny that. The fact of the matter is that these members not only have been causing a brunt of the issues of the past few days, but through their vast experience, should know better above all else. Given how the level of maturity expected on FESS, I know for a fact that all of members in question are capable of not acting in the way that they are.

And, those people, since they're so eager to not be generalized are Judas, Der Kommissar, Mad Fredin, and Art_Dragon. Yes, you might not all be acting like you were earlier in the day (or earlier in the week in some cases) right now, but that doesn't excuse your overzealous attempts of immaturity. Whine, bitch, and moan all you like about this being unfair, but know that it won't accomplish anything. You all know perfectly well that your behavior is unacceptable, especially because you've been held to higher standards before.

All of that being said, Fox does bring a point to the table which I'll address now. Yes, I probably should have made this broad, across the board for everyone, but, at the time, I was getting ready to head out to a college sporting event to support some of my friends so I didn't really have a whole lot of time. However, especially seeing some of the responses to this topic since I posted it, things need to be said and done.

I'm frankly tired of all of the pissing on both sides of the fence right now. I called out the members of FESS because they were starting a bunch of shit all at once and causing a bunch of problems in extreme succession. That by no means warrants the FESSers to attack the members of SF and vice versa. I don't want to have to change my administration mindset, because I like the laid back atmosphere, since it's a change up from what I'm used to. But, if the trolling, flaming, spamming, and the like don't stop, something's going to have to be changed. And, where I'd go with the change, I can guarantee that most people won't like it, because it'll be in the strict direction.

While we're at it, I can't say I'm happy with the secular nature of things I'm seeing either, at least in this topic. People need to act as themselves and not as swarms or groups trying to defend each other. I can't say much more than that, because it's just that simple. People don't need to gang up on other people.

Because I'm already tired of dealing with this thread, I'm closing it. If you want to whine, bitch, or moan, I have a PM box, and I'll gladly accept your messages. Until then, I expect to see improvement across the board. I honestly don't want to have to suggest reforms and make things more strict because people can't behave.

[Jyosua]

Normally I don't supercede other people's authority by messing with topics once they're closed, but I want to put emphasis on something.

But, if the trolling, flaming, spamming, and the like don't stop, something's going to have to be changed. And, where I'd go with the change, I can guarantee that most people won't like it, because it'll be in the strict direction.

While we're at it, I can't say I'm happy with the secular nature of things I'm seeing either, at least in this topic. People need to act as themselves and not as swarms or groups trying to defend each other. I can't say much more than that, because it's just that simple. People don't need to gang up on other people.

Because I'm already tired of dealing with this thread, I'm closing it. If you want to whine, bitch, or moan, I have a PM box, and I'll gladly accept your messages. Until then, I expect to see improvement across the board. I honestly don't want to have to suggest reforms and make things more strict because people can't behave.

This times ten. He's serious, and so am I, when I say, I fully support this. If we have to tighten up and go from guidelines to rules, all because you nimrods can't get along, we'll do it.