starburst

Hey, congratulations! Lunatic Conquest is indeed a very demanding game, specially without planning. I find Hard Conquest more enjoyable, not because its easiness (it is still thrilling) but because its flexibility. Lunatic basically demands that you use everything at your disposal, while Hard lets you decide what you want out of this campaign on the go. (Normal is useless, an entirely different game.) Eltosian Kadath already addressed various points that you mentioned, and I agree with most of his notes. I use different approaches than yours in various chapters or map sections, but in the end you were successful too. I would perhaps add that Lunatic Conquest is a particularly terrible game for blind runs, and yours played like one. And while some map sections of Lunatic are simply unfair, the experience is different when you know where you are headed and why you are making certain choices along the way. I have completed about twenty campaigns of Hard Conquest, and I still feel the thrill. I can only invite you to spice it up and play it with some restrictions, like a smaller party, no royals and no "backpacks", hoping that it will leave a better taste in your mouth than Lunatic did. Hard still plays like a puzzle in multiple instances, but I do believe that it is an entertaining one.

Do you honestly play like this or are you just making a point through hyperbole? If the former, it must be very dull watching your playing. On the player's side, activation skills and critical hits's main purpose is not to save the day, but to save moves. Yes, there are instances during a campaign wherein an activation or critical hit triggers and lets us escape a situation that was otherwise unsolvable. But most of the time activation skills and critical hits grant faster kills or more damage, which allows other units to (better) perform different tasks, letting the party advance and complete the map faster. Thus, at the beginning of a Player Phase, one can gamble with attacks that have a higher triggering chance. In the last third of the game it is very common to have, I do not know, thirty activations or critical hits per map. Sorcerer Ophelia alone consistently has over ten skill activations or critical hits. Hero or Vanguard Silas, Sniper Mozu, Sorcerer or Swordmaster Odin, Berserker or Sniper or Great Knight Azura, Berserker or Wolfssegner Velouria, Berserker or Wolfssegner or Vanguard Shigure, Great Lord Sophie... Phases are very colourful, even when animations are inactive. I do not count the number of triggers per map but, say, I clear Chapter 23 without letting the enemies attack once on Enemy Phase. A party of ten units (no royals, no Backpacks, no path bonuses, no Internet, no nothing) marches clearing areas on a single Player Phase. Perfectly reproducible with a variety of parties. My guess is that the triggers are key to this clearing march.

You know what? I should probably have used another adjective. I was focused on this not being about merely casual campaigns, wherein units hop from one class to another just for the laughs. My intention was to discuss relatively easy to get skills that benefit many or various units on a somewhat-efficient-yet-not-competitive-low-count campaign, one that may allow a couple of short class-dipping but whose main goal still is to complete maps in a rather efficient number of moves. Another example could be both early skills from the Cavalier line: +3 Damage in terrain with no effects and Shelter. Bronze lances and swords are there since the very beginning, and Cavalier is available to Silas, his bride and Kaze; to Sophie, her boyfriend and best-friends-forever (Velouria, Soleil); Peri and her psycho family; Xander, Mullet and their acquittances; Arthur, Jakob and his zombie son. Also to Gunther, but he would only give it to Cornflakes (eww!) On the one hand it is only +3 Damage, on the other, that is Half-a-Faire; but given at Level 1 instead of at Level 35 and weapon-independent. Shelter's utility depends on your party composition, but even in smaller parties it broadens the options during Player Phase. If you value it, then its previous skill (+3 Damage) is a blessing. For me, grabbing both skills for two Seals (assuming the unit would not stay in the Cavalier line) is a steal and it benefits all of its candidates (Velouria would have it harder than most, given her lack of proficiency in both weapons, but it would take only one level-up [which can be one hit] for Elbow Room and one level for Shelter.) Somewhat tied to the previous example are +4 Damage when initiating the attack, the second skill (L10) from Archer, and +3 Damage when the enemy initiates the attack, the second skill (L10) from Mercenary. In Conquest, only Mozu can access +4 Damage, but she gives the Archer class to her man, Effie and Nyx, and they all can pass it to their children. Now, when a Cavalier marries Mozu or when she passes this skill to Sophie, they basically have a very early Aggressor (+7 Damage: +3 Damage from Elbow Room and +4 Damage from Quick Draw.) This is free for Sophie or costs one or two Seals to the other candidates (a Partner or Friendship Seal and then a Heart one to get back to their initial class.) These early skills have great synergy. Say, Silas can get them all by Level 15 Mercenary or so, effectively having +7 Damage on Player Phase and +6 Damage on Enemy Phase, and +10 Damage on Player Phase and +9 Damage on Enemy Phase if Cornflakes is under half HP, thanks to his Personal skill. It would require at least two Seals (a Partner one and a Heart one), but Silas is a main front-liner, for whom both phases are important and you want to stack power.

I would like to read your thoughts about which skills you think are resource-effective. I use this adjective instead of “cost-effective” because this thread has nothing to do with buying skills, and all with getting them through different Seals during a rather efficient campaign. The “effectiveness” of a skill comprises - the usability of the skill itself, - the number and type of Seals it demands, - how early it is available, - how many levels it demands to be learned, - how many units have access to it. In Conquest, +5 Effective Speed from the Sexy Pegasus line is one the most resource-effective skills. It is a Level 1 skill from a class that uses lances, a weapon already available in the army (Silas and Azura have both an E-rank lance.) It can be accessed early by Azura, her suitor and their offspring, and by Cornflakes and Elise (and their children) through a Friendship Seal. Mid-game, Shigure also passes it to every single maiden and to Forrest. Azura can get +5 Effective Speed immediately after being recruited using the Heart Seal available at the store, or in her next map using the Heart Seal dropped by Haitaka. This also makes it available to her youngest child. If one does not use Azura long-term, it is more efficient to let her suitor get it around Chapter 12 through a Partner Seal (available in the store and in Nina’s and in Sophie’s maps), and let him pass it to their youngest child. Silas, Arthur, Odin, Laslow, Leo, Keaton and Xander and their children all benefit greatly from +5 Effective Speed. And even the faster units like Niles and Kaze and their daughters do make use of this skill, ensuring that they will double everything on the screen. It is useless to Benny, but very useful on Ignatius in the Fighter line. It complements greatly Silas and Sophie on any line, and Shigure as Cavalier. Wolves Velouria and Shigure get more broken with it. It costs one Partner Seal and, in my case, also one Heart Seal to let the man return to his more offensive class. Giving Cornflakes the Sexy Pegasus talent follows the exact same logic. Do note that I recruit children early, but if you do it mid-game instead, you could easily let Azura’s suitor get +5 Effective Speed and Rally Speed two level-ups later. But I will leave this for another message.

I dislike her voice more than anything else (just like Selena’s laugh being the one reason to let her die as soon as possible.) Then I dislike the sick devotion trope that was given to her. About her aesthetics, she does not fit within her siblings but she could perfectly be a villain of any other Fire Emblem game. And she looks better than any of Engage’s travesties. Since I do not use her in the game nor do I face her (in Conquest), she is more irrelevant than irritating to me.

I have been playing a couple of Conquest’s campaigns to kill time. On my first campaign Odin got only one point of Speed before promotion and it was at level 18! 👻 He joins at level 5 with 7 Speed. Since his growth is 45 %, the probability of not getting a Speed point in twelve level-ups (from L6 to L17) is (1-0,45)^12 = (0,55)^12 = 0,000766. He was blessed in Magic, Skill and Defence, and always had more Magic than +Mag Noble Cornflakes and their daughter Sorcerer Ophelia. On my current campaign, Odin got eight consecutive Speed points in his first eight level-ups and then capped Speed (18) at level 18, gaining eleven points of Speed in thirteen level-ups. 😂 The probability of eight consecutive Speed gains is 0,45^8 = 0,00168. And the probability of gaining eleven points of Speed in thirteen level-ups is a binomial experiment and more cumbersome to write down, but if my maths are not rusty, it should be 0,003615. This is not random, the game literally gave me two opposing versions of the same character on consecutive campaigns. Update: I just completed Chapter 21 and Odin now capped Speed (28) as a level 10 Sorcerer! 🙃 Promotion grants three points of Speed (18+3=21) but does not increase its growth (45 %), he thus got seven more points of Speed in ten level-ups, which has a probability of 0,074603. Odin joined at level 5 with 7 points of Speed, capped Speed (18) at level 18 and was promoted at level 19, which granted him 3 points of Speed, then capped Speed (28) again at level 10 promoted. Therefore, he had to gain 18 points of Speed (from 7 to 18 and then from 21 to 28) in 24 level-ups (from level 5 to level 19 and then ten levels promoted), which has a probability of 0,002133. And the probability of capping Speed at level 18 and then capping Speed again at level 10 promoted is 0,00027. 😱

Also useful for going in and out of the Wolfskin classes, say for Shigure and Velouria, for the Rune Stone (at C) is great and because being able to only use Bronze weapons mid-game (when most of your teammates are at rank B) is a noticeable handicap. Or to use amour-piercing weapons immediately, at rank D, for recently promoted units. Exacly. This is how all activation skills work in such cases. By the time the S-rank axe is given (end of Chapter 26), I would argue that it is the best axe, unless you had been lucky enough to get a Berserker’s Axe in the random pickups.

I agree with most of your arguments. As I told you before, I do not even use Generals because I do not need that much defence and because I do not love the characters with natural access to it. You are still missing one important point about Pavise and Wary Fighters on Generals: they are given to them, at no cost, as part of their development. And, in my view, they also suit their lore. I would prefer to have offensive activation skills on a General, given their high Skill, but it is what it is. I would not recommend to turn other units into Generals for a couple of levels to learn Wary Fighter or Pavise either. But they suit Generals! Being the slowest units on the map and nullifying double attacks on them is great, and having the chance of halving the damage of most weapons is always better than not having it. You compare these skills to other skills in the pool, which may hardly or never be available to Generals in practice during a campaign, while I compare these two skills to not having them at all. These two skills make Generals better and cost them nothing. Why would you renounce to a given benefit? Man, this was brilliant! 😂🏈

Or you simply do not know any other way to play the game. Attack Stance is the only way to advance in dozens of instances, specially if you use smaller parties, say, ten units. It triples your attacking power, but you are used to incapable Backpacks. It is a waste to use trained units as Backpacks, for they deal equal or more damage than front-liners. I have completed at least twenty campaigns (on Hard and Lunatic) with ten units, banning Backpacks and pre-promoted units. Eltosian Kadath even did it on Lunatic without using Guard Stance at all. Conquest takes place on Player Phase 90 % of the time. A ten-units party marches wiping areas on Player Phase, not letting the enemy attack. Chapter 23 is probably the best example: one Player Phase to kill the masked magicians and lancers, one Player Phase to kill their reinforcements, one Player Phase to wipe Hinata’s team, one Player Phase to kill the masked magicians and the Sniper, one Player Phase to kill Rally Man & Co., one Player Phase to dispatch the Master of Arms’s parade, one Player Phase to kill the Snipers and lancers on the roof, and one Player Phase to wipe Oboro’s party. How hard do these enemy parties hit? I would not know, they never have a single Enemy Phase to show it. 👻 All of this with ten units, no Backpacks, no royals, no DLC, no My Castle, no multiple-paths bonuses, no nothing. It is easier to break the game with Backpacks, and Guard Stance is not superior to Attack Stance, just more basic.

So… when you are one of the final twelve candidates for a position, you simply skip the last interview because your probability of getting it is 1/ 12? I love Tom Brady. Should he simply concede games instead of attempting last-minute drives with no time outs and 80 yards to go against a top defence? He just broke the record of such winning drives. Please, kindly tell my colleague that his wife should stop chemotherapy, for the odds are against her. A chance towards accomplishing a goal is better than the certainty of nothing. Fire Emblem’s assigning probabilities to actions is an entertaining exercise to test our perception of chance.

I do not even use the pre-promoted royals and Chapter 17 is still easy. Paladins, Heroes, Great Knights, Generals, Vanguards, Wyvern Lords… basically any front-liner does the trick. Positioning is more important than Defence itself. Snipers and Bow Knights kill ninjas at will through the walls. And I completely agree with this. Chapter 19 is a boring, slow-paced map. This is how I feel about Four Houses. 🤭 It may be that I only use ten units per map, but what you describe does not reflect my experience of Chapter 20 (over twenty campaigns with diverse parties.) The winds are always shown one turn before they affect the units, and their directions are colour coded. Wherever your units are at any given turn, you know beforehand in which direction they would go and which enemies they would face. Even if you make no sense of the wind pattern, you always know the current direction, giving you a chance to move your units out of the currents or plan for the following Enemy Phase or make appropriate pairings or to kill the currently-menacing enemies… Again, this may be more cumbersome with larger parties whose units are scattered across the map, but my party of ten marches relatively tight and clears the map and chests in twenty or so turns. Chapter 23: head east of the wall, then take the stairs. The Snipers is the only group of enemies that will face you on Enemy Phase. The other two teams are placed with the exact separation so that you can always kill each of them in a single Enemy Phase (using ten units.) How hard do these teams hit? I do not know, they never have an Enemy Phase to show it. All in all, I understand your complains about Conquest. I still enjoy the majority of it. ☺️

Yesterday, in Conquest's Endgame, Sophie missed a hit with a 99 % chance. In at least three occasions, Odin's very first attack in his recruit map has been a Critical Hit.

Chapter 17 is so slow paced that one can use it to get new abilities in alternate classes. Just go counter-clock wise. One only needs about 20 Defence to sustain Enemy Phases against the ninjas. It does demand more healing on Lunatic. The key to Chapter 19 is Elise, she trivialises it. Do a cross formation with her at the centre, and most units can survive the fox assaults. From +Mag Nohr Noble Cornflakes to anything Silas, Heroes, wyverns, Paladins, Great Knights, Dark Knights, Wolfssegners, Sniper Mozu, Mechanist Anna... Drink tonics and eat healthy. Chapter 20 is not transparent as to where your units would end up after the winds, and that is a design error. But it can also be super short! One can literally complete it in like six turns just by heading east; all winds take you directly into Fuga's Pimp Penthouse on purpose. Chapter 23 is difficult, but I do not see its glaring issue. Are you referring to the particular enemy position of Lunatic? The lower part of Chapter 26 is one of the few areas that demand capable, trained front-liners. Then again, Hero Silas and +Mag Nohr Noble Cornflakes always do the trick, and so does any Wyvern Lord. I have used Wolfssegners Velouria and Shigure, or Paladins there, but they require more bonuses and more healing. And you can always retreat to the corridor and let the chasing Generals and Berserkers be attacked by your other units. I usually skip the western part. Not because I cannot complete it, but because the Spy weapon is not worth it. I am not saying that these are the best maps, but I do not understand the hate. I do enjoy Chapter 23. I, for example, have always had way more difficulties with Chapter 21 than with any other map (other than Lunatic's Endgame, fuck that!)

Accuracy is a must for me, I cannot disregard it. I of course take my chances during each phase, but the accuracy between Silver and Brave weapons is noticeable. Player-Phase units have their one chance to wipe the area, and it has to work. The one Brave I sometimes buy is the Brave Bow (however it is called), and only when Sniper Mozu or Sniper Azura are on my team. Otherwise I would always get a Silver Bow +1 for the same money for its higher might and accuracy. Exactly! Killer weapons (or high Critical Hit rates) are you best bet to save the day when something else failed. But they also save moves when given to high-Skill front-liners during Enemy-Phase, or to Player-Phase units who gamble at the beginning of the phase and in Attack Stance. Nohr Noble +Mag Cornflakes with a Mjölnir +1, Sorcerer Odin with an appropriately and ridiculously engraved tome, Ophelia with three tomes, Sniper Mozu, physical Azura and her children, Hero Silas is a Critical-Hit spree, killing frenzy to enjoy.

Ah!, I do not even use Generals; I need my two front-liners to be dynamic. But I still think that Wary Fighter suits the Generals, lore- and mechanic wise. Conquest does not demand as much Defence as people believe, yet the # 1 complain of numerous people is that their units cannot "tank" enough in multiple areas of different maps. Hence my comment about a General's being able to be "the perfect front-liner." Not for me, but I am not the one complaining. Bad logic. Are you also one of those odd people who disregard the meal bonuses because of its randomness? A chance of a given benefit is always better than a certainty of nothing. Generals should have over 30 % chance of activating Pavise and Aegis per hit.

Conquest plays like a puzzle game. It has multiple, colourful solutions, but one is not supposed to let it develop by itself. Your units will die if you do not read. I can understand why you do not like it. I, on the other hand, realised that Conquest is the reason why I do not like Fire Emblem as a whole, most games do not play like it. 🙃 I do not want the games to be difficult just because, and enjoy Hard Conquest way more than Lunatic Conquest, but I do want to feel the thrill of finding a solution to a situation. And this feeling is something that no other Fire Emblem game that I have tried has evoked. In many games, one trains units, then let the enemies suicide on them on Enemy Phase and advance. Where is the joy?!

You are focusing on the skill itself rather than on its purpose to Generals, right? Because I find Wary Fighter an awesome skill for Generals. It basically halves the damage for them, the slowest units on the map. Their following skill goes further and halves the damage from all physical weapons. Let a General be a Paladin or Great Knight for a couple of levels and one has the perfect front-liner: +3 Attack, Shelter, Wary Fighter, Pavise, Aegis or Luna. I would not make Wary Fighter more exploitable. It fits its class perfectly: a General is a seasoned warrior who cannot be hit twice by any foe.

(About turning Effie into a Sniper) One only needs about 25 Def (stacked, not at base) for the Kitsune Chapter, which many units can reach. Hero Silas or Noble Cornflakes can walk around the whole map, any Wyvern Lord works. Properly stacked Paladins, Dark Knights, Great Knights, Wolfsegners can do it too. Even Sniper Mozu with a Short Bow can sustain Enemy Phases. The easiest way is to use a cross formation with Elise at the centre. A more dynamic alternative is having Rally Defence. I do not use Xander or Camilla or Generals, but they trivialise this map. For the story, right? Because his growths and bases would not pull it off. He would not be useless, just like General Azura is actually very capable. But, for me, a class that plays the role or a front-liner must be able to endure tough situations, and they would not. Their Defence would be that of, say, Sniper Mozu or Sorcerer Odin. Then again, I am pickier because I only use ten units. Great Knight Azura (from the Cavalier line) is awesome: like 35 Strength with 30 Speed, 30 Skill and 25 Defence (bases, before stacking), with enough accuracy to hit everyone with Axes and enough Skill to activate Luna and land Critical Hits often. And if you let her get Speed +5 from her Pegasus line, she doubles most enemies. (Bonus points if you also let her get Rally Speed.) Exactly. It is very odd to me that people do not value what is given to them. It is like finding 1 € on the street and complaining because it is not a 5 €. 😂

I may be the only one who would take Silver weapons over Brave ones. Let me elaborate. In the way I play Conquest, with a smaller ten-units party, the great majority of the game takes place in Player Phase. One healer, two front-liners, and seven other units whose main purpose is to wipe screens. This demands great (magical and physical) attack power. The Player-Phase units must be powerful, accurate and fast, to deal the most damage possible in their one chance to defeat the enemy, for they would probably not endure an Enemy Phase in the wild. The penalties of Silver weapons (and other items like the Dragon Stone Plus and certain tomes) can seriously diminish the abilities of a front-liner, for whom -2 Skill/ Strength/ Magic can easily translate into a -6 (probably -8 if they also attacked on Player Phase) after facing three enemies during a single Enemy Phase. This, however, does not happen to Player-Phase units. For the main attackers (Bow-wielders, Sorcerers, Berserkers...) the Silver weapon penalties are effectively a -1 Skill/ Strength/ Magic, for they would attack at full power to kill the enemy, rest on Enemy Phase and then recover one point by the next Player Phase. The penalty of -1 Skill/ Strength/ Magic at the start of each Player Phase may not be critical even after four consecutive phases (1st Player Phase at full attack, 2nd at -1, 3rd at -2, 4th at -3.) Remember that by the time the main attackers wield Silver weapons, they deal 20-30 per hit; and if they double, that is 40-60 per attack. Having -6 Attack (-3 per hit, doubling) at the start of the 4th consecutive Player Phase wielding Silver weapons when dealing 60 damage should still guarantee any kill, or would at least seriously damage any enemy and let any other unit finish them. The -3 Skill at that point should also be manageable, for your main attackers should have 25-35 Skill at base by that point anyway. In the same vein, the Sacrifice Dagger (or however it is called in English) and the Berserker's Axe are great for Kaze and Axe-wielders: these weapons have the highest might at C-level and outstanding accuracy, and losing HP is secondary to Player-Phase units, for they wipe areas. On my last save from this run on Chapter 27, L20 Bow Knight Mozu deals 42 damage to the Ninja Master and L20 Bow Knight Nina deals 68 (34x2) damage to the Berserker, wielding Silver Bows and with attack-relevant bonuses from pairing-up with A-Support units and meals. Also in this run, front-liner Nohr Noble Cornflakes had to use her Dragon Stone Plus to kill a zombie on the Stairs to Hell, and she ended up at -8 Skill/ Magic seconds later, for three other zombies piled on her; turning her completely useless for the rest of the (thankfully short) map. Brave weapons have less might and less accuracy than Silver weapons, cost double and are unique (only one per game.) In my style, the -4 Def/ Res may also be secondary to Player-Phase units, but these units deal more damage for the same gold with a forged Silver weapon. For 8.000 gold one can get, say, a forged Silver Sword +1 with 14 might and 90 accuracy or a Brave Sword with 6 might and 75 accuracy. The forged Silver hits harder, per hit and in total (x2 vs. x4, if doubling.) Silver weapons are also available as unique mid-game (after Chapter 13) and infinitely late-game (after Chapter 20.) Yes, there are instances wherein Brave weapons are the best bet to kill the enemy, say, to kill it without letting it attack or to fill the Guard Bar. But I guarantee you that there are multiple ways to kill that same enemy without it. The only Brave weapon that I always use is Lightning. But it is very different from the others: It is available mid-game, has 75 accuracy, requires C-level proficiency, costs 3.400 gold and can be forged or given to two or three units. I would add Killing weapons to the discussion: for 3.000 gold at C-level, one can get, say, a Killing Edge with 6 might, 85 accuracy and +25 % chance of Critical Hit by mid-game. If a Critical Hit lands, damage is multiplied by 4. Since enemies hit as hard with 1 HP or 100 HP, one should be able to guarantee the kill. But if the numbers do not add up and you need the kill with the final strike, your best bet will always be the hit with a chance to actually kill it (be it though an activation skill or through a Critical Hit.) A 25 % chance of landing a Critical Hit an killing has a 43,75 % chance if the unit doubles the enemy.

Actually, his Killer Bow and Mend staff are the only reason he lives. For one chapter. If there are no bow wielders on that campaign (but why would there not be one?!), Shura accepts his fate. https://forums.serenesforest.net/index.php?/topic/79969-conquest-captured-units-database/ https://forums.serenesforest.net/index.php?/topic/91217-conquest-generics-lunatic/

Could Shigure not also ride a wyvern from Dragon-talent Cornflakes? I have only played some chapters of Birthright and do not really know when exactly the characters are recruited, but this option might let you marry Jakob to Sakura and still have Shigure on a wyvern.

Fates is at least two different games and a (forgettable) DLC with extras. Four Houses does not even have enough maps to be one complete game.

• U-Can’t-Touch-This MC Ninja of Conquest’s Chapter 17. Mischievous plans, menacing appearance, relevant backstory, great skills and challenging fight. oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh!

• Lunatic Conquest’s Endgame is not challenging but plainly unfair. • The maps with infinite zombies in Shadows of Valentia are unbearable. • I am always afraid of Conquest’s Chapter 21.

I have been reading this thread for the past week and I not sure that Fates has been vindicated over the past years. For better or worse, I joined the 3DS Party in mid 2017 and discovered Fates weeks later. Therefore, I was not there when the “hate” was at its peak. Everyone around here and on Reddit at the time agreed on that the story was nonsensical (to put it politely) but that various elements of its gameplay were solid. And, to me, that consensus still holds true. I only play and only talk about Conquest, and have never felt mocked. Probably because this community is not toxic, but I have not read serious attacks on others during these years either. (Not even on Reddit, mind you.) If anything, I still cannot understand how Four Houses remains so highly praised. It heavily disappointed me when it was released, and it never became an acquired taste.