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Would it be ok to have Kyza eat an energy ring to help his case? I forget who wants these resources

Edited by Queen_Kittylincia

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Would it be ok to have Kyza eat an energy ring to help his case? I forget who wants these resources

Er...

Lethe (N/T)

Gareth

Sanaki

Bastian (N/T - Str)

Lehran

Kyza

Astrid (T - Str, Skl, Spd)

Pelleas

Out of Kyza's tier, Lethe loves it more, and she can do more with it... Going one tier more

Brom (N/T - HP, Str, Skl, Spd, Def)

Geoffrey (N/T - Spd)

Lucia (N/T)

Rolf

Ilyana (T - Mag, Skl, Res)

Leonardo

Nealuchi

Nasir

Ilyana

Ena

Sigrun

Makalov

Volke (N/T - Str, Skl, Spd)

Stefan (N/T - Str, Skl, Spd)

Renning

Danved (N/T - Str)

Vika

Brom likes it, maybe rolf can get it, keep it for sigrun or makalov/danved....

Then we go into above tiers and i assume the list starts to get bigger... I guess it depends... Are we talking about using resource within one tier or the tiers as a whole?

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I don't agree with some of those. Kyza is arguably better choice than Lethe, Brom and Rolf imo (as a fighter not 100% tiering purpose since Brom is required for 2-1). Lethe only ties him, Brom has really low move and low speed, i'm not sure about Rolf but I get the feeling Kyza would use it alot better. Although you're probably right on Sigrun :lol:.

Edited by Queen_Kittylincia

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How do you expect a low tier using an energy drop to offset the opp. cost of giving it to a higher tier unit who will inevitably see more combat? That energy drop we put towards Kyza comes at the cost of not giving it to Jill + the hawks, for instance.

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Drops, and yes only Ulki needs it, AFAIK jannaf is okay for a while IIRC.

Kyza is arguably better choice than Lethe

I beg to differ, eventhough Tier gauge over Cat gauge, lethe can actually reach SS Rank, and she can actually double and possibly kill with the help of BEXP. Something my Kyza couldn't do in draft... Yes i know PEMN i keep doing it :<

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Drops, and yes only Ulki needs it, AFAIK jannaf is okay for a while IIRC.

I beg to differ, eventhough Tier gauge over Cat gauge, lethe can actually reach SS Rank, and she can actually double and possibly kill with the help of BEXP. Something my Kyza couldn't do in draft... Yes i know PEMN i keep doing it :<

Forget PEMN, Kyza is absolute trash even on normal mode. His speed cap is awful as is his offense without a speedwing or drops (which he doesn't deserve, and even with them he goes from attrocious to mediocre). Without the speedwings good luck getting his strike up as he won't double. I can't accurately judge how he'd perform on hard mode since I've never used him there, but I can't see how he could be useable for anything other than shovebotting and early chip damage on hard mode.

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How do you expect a low tier using an energy drop to offset the opp. cost of giving it to a higher tier unit who will inevitably see more combat? That energy drop we put towards Kyza comes at the cost of not giving it to Jill + the hawks, for instance.

I'm not sure how you propose teleporting one of our Energy Drops into the DB convoy. In my experience, Janaff does not need a drop. And we have enough to give Kyza a drop, and also Ulki. Ulki doesn't even need a Drop if he's lucky.

Forget PEMN, Kyza is absolute trash even on normal mode. His speed cap is awful as is his offense without a speedwing or drops (which he doesn't deserve, and even with them he goes from attrocious to mediocre). Without the speedwings good luck getting his strike up as he won't double. I can't accurately judge how he'd perform on hard mode since I've never used him there, but I can't see how he could be useable for anything other than shovebotting and early chip damage on hard mode.

Kyza with Drop and Wing has similar offense to High Tier Ulki (2 less attack, and he can probably grow that strength).

Who gives a shit about his speed cap? 4-E-5 can be 2-turned in your sleep. Aside from a handful of 27AS enemies in 4-4 and 4-E-1 (and I think the prospect of Kyza fighting Cover Generals is absurd), 30AS is sufficient.

Edited by Anouleth

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By the gods, 5 straight pages of more bottom tier AGAIN in the FE10 tier. But then suddenly, Kyza! Something interesting is finally happening! It will go nowhere, but interesting!

I beg to differ, eventhough Tier gauge over Cat gauge, lethe can actually reach SS Rank, and she can actually double and possibly kill with the help of BEXP. Something my Kyza couldn't do in draft... Yes i know PEMN i keep doing it :<

I believe even in my less than stellar runthrough of FE10, I ran into a whole bunch of problems Letha had. First off, SS Rank is not going to happen. Just to get to S, she needs to enter 30 battles. Consider turncounts, and then think of how many turns it takes just to have a cat transform, and how quick a cat can run out of gauge. She can't get exposed to enough combat in her time in part 2 to even get close to halfway to S rank by part 3. You need 60 WEXP, so if you're doubling that's 35 battles. Only available for 3-4, then returns at chapter 7 and 8, then 10 and 11, then E. She'll be lucky to hit S rank by part 4. Let's check her performance at just 3-3. 26 Atk transformed is not pretty. Kyza's packing 30. Still crap, but it's beating Lethe.

Ahh, but Lethe has 24 AS to Kyza's 22, but let's see how much that matters. Lethe doubles Warriors, Halberdiers and Snipers while both double everything else. What of damage though?

Warriors have 16-17 Def, meaning about 20-18 damage off Lethe and 14-13 damage off Kyza. Outside the one with 17 Def, both 3RKO regardless, though granted if we're talking chip, Lethe's is more significant. Vs Halbs, whom have 19-20 def, she's doing 14-12 damage, compared to 11-12. 3RKO to Kyza's 4RKO, Lethe's advantage. With Snipers, it's a similar story to Warriors. vs Swordmasters n the other hand are a win for Kyza, but I would like to point out the other enemies here.

1x Fire Sage lvl 8 (Elfire)

HP 32, Atk 26, AS 18, Hit 130, Avo 47, DEF 12, RES 16, Crit 8, Ddg 11

2x Fire Sage lvl 9 (Elfire)

HP 33, Atk 26, AS 18, Hit 131, Avo 48, DEF 12, RES 16, Crit 8, Ddg 12

2x Fire Sage lvl 10 (Elfire)

HP 33, Atk 27, AS 19, Hit 131, Avo 50, DEF 12, RES 17, Crit 8, Ddg 12

1x Thunder Sage lvl 8 (Elthunder)

HP 32, Atk 25, AS 17, Hit 120, Avo 45, DEF 11, RES 16, Crit 18, Ddg 11

2x Thunder Sage lvl 9 (Elthunder, one has Vulnerary)

HP 33, Atk 26, AS 17, Hit 121, Avo 46, DEF 11, RES 16, Crit 18, Ddg 12

Kyza ORKOs all but 1 of them, while Lethe can't. Most, if not all mages are blocking the ledge with the ballista, which is the quickest way up for Ranulf to get to his destination point. Kyza clearing a space to get more people up there is helping, and is in fact one of the few who can get to that ridge at Ranulf's pace AND help clear a path for him. Everyone else has to deal with under-the-ledge accuracy to aim up and try to snipe some off, or are Lolthe and Lolyre, or Mordecai who through what was basically 0 resistance probably never got to Resolve health to do the same.

There's also Generals up there, and though both do garbage damage, both double and thus it's in Kyza's favor. 12 damage to 2.

But all I really have to point out is the killing the mages blocking the ledge and I bring hte point that Kyza's helping with efficiency in a rather unique fashion where Lethe is not.

3-7 is basically a waste of time, and in 3-8 enemies start getting a minimal of 21 speed so Lethe no longer doubles.

Basically the only Kyza vs Lethe argument that can be made is "Does Lethe contribute something in Part 2 that can outdo the small little service Kyza does in 3-4?". Not much to talk about their performance otherwise, since it's basically very run of the mill laguz problems amidsts the glory that is Titania and Haar.

I also wouldn't waste a stat booster on any of these fools.

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Basically the only Kyza vs Lethe argument that can be made is "Does Lethe contribute something in Part 2 that can outdo the small little service Kyza does in 3-4?". Not much to talk about their performance otherwise, since it's basically very run of the mill laguz problems amidsts the glory that is Titania and Haar.

I also wouldn't waste a stat booster on any of these fools.

I don't know if you noticed, but we're assuming deployment for them. That is, we're bringing them into every chapter and ignoring the deployment slot cost.

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I don't know if you noticed, but we're assuming deployment for them. That is, we're bringing them into every chapter and ignoring the deployment slot cost.

I don't recall mentioning deployment. In fact, I pretty much named the highlights of their career and I stopped when it got to the point they were getting bad anyways. I wasn't assuming deployment at all. My case simply is that Kyza has a unique position in 3-4 where he has a definitive use. I merely wish to hear what Lethe does in part 2 to counteract it, since this unique position Kyza has in 3-4 concerning the mages on the ledge outdoes the minor damage leads Lethe has on other enemies, and is in fact an offense lead Kyza has off the bat despite not doubling as often. Nevermind the durability lead, or the fact Tiger Gauge is the best while Cat Gauge is the worst.

Besides, as time goes on, one can note the level difference, thus an exp gain difference. Kyza is technically 20/16 while Lethe is 20/20/1. Enemies in chapter 3-4 are around the ranges of 9-12, and unless laguz EXP gain is also cut in half, Kyza shouldn't be growing at THAT slow a rate, especially in comparison to Lethe's astounding level. Talking the possible difference of 1 EXP a kill to 12.

Dear Vincent. Please put the EXP calcs on the FE10 calculation page, please. For the love of all that's holy.

Edited by Grandkitty

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Besides, as time goes on, one can note the level difference, thus an exp gain difference. Kyza is technically 20/16 while Lethe is 20/20/1. Enemies in chapter 3-4 are around the ranges of 9-12, and unless laguz EXP gain is also cut in half, Kyza shouldn't be growing at THAT slow a rate, especially in comparison to Lethe's astounding level. Talking the possible difference of 1 EXP a kill to 12.

Dear Vincent. Please put the EXP calcs on the FE10 calculation page, please. For the love of all that's holy.

Sadly, transformed laguz do get 5 Cexp less per kill than their tier 2 or tier 3 beorc counterparts according to this set of formulas:

Combat Exp

Ineffective Atk Exp = 1 [if a player unit participates in

combat in which he or she does no damage]

Atk Exp = 10 + HM penalty +

DeltaLevel/2 + Laguzfoe modifier (round up, min. 1)

HM penalty: -5 if

playing on HM

Laguzfoe modifier: +10 if foe is a laguz

DeltaLevel: Foe's

level minus player unit's level. Note that "level" has the following

modifiers:

If unit is a tier 2 beorc, +20 to their level

If unit is a tier

3 beorc, +40 to their level

If unit is a transformed laguz, its level is

doubled.

Kill Exp = Atk Exp + DeltaLevel + 15 + DeltaPower*5 + Boss

modifier

Boss modifier: +40 if foe is a boss on NM, +30 if foe is a boss

on HM

DeltaPower: Foe's power minus player unit's power. "Power" is defined

as follows:

-Tier 1 beorc, as well as enemy-controlled laguz, have a power of

1

-Tier 2 and 3 beorc, as well as player-controlled untransformed laguz, have

a power of 2.

-Player-controlled transformed laguz have a power of

3.

If Kill Exp would be less than Atk Exp, set it equal to Atk Exp

instead.

Even Mordecai is difficult to train in HM. I don't know why IS did this...Still, with the provided levels, Kyza will gain 2-3 Cexp per attack and 5-9 Cexp per kill. As opposed to Lethe's 1 Cexp no matter what. NM is so much more forgiving to Kyza.

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I'm not sure how you propose teleporting one of our Energy Drops into the DB convoy. In my experience, Janaff does not need a drop. And we have enough to give Kyza a drop, and also Ulki. Ulki doesn't even need a Drop if he's lucky.

The first Energy Drop can be obtained in 1-2.

Lethe's 2-2 isn't bad. She probably saves a turn here. And in 2-E she can probably shove Leanne or something at least.

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Maybe Kyza can use wrath effectively? Since he's weaker than Mordy seems easier to get him there.

Mordy can already do this though, and it isn't hard to get mordy into wrath range without him dying.

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I thought Mordy used Resolve better ^^' i'm just trying to find if Kyza can do something useful because his durability is nice.

It's nothing special, though. Mordecai, Haar, Gatrie, Ranulf, Janaff, and Ulki all have Kyza beat by significant margins. Pre-Ragnell Ike and post-promotion Titania are comparably durable. Kyza's durability isn't ordinarily something to worry about overmuch, but he doesn't have the durability to easily endure in Wrath or even Resolve range like Mordecai. Also, I believe Mordecai can take both Resolve and Wrath. But if we wanted to give Wrath to someone else, Ranulf would probably be my candidate of choice. He can take a bunch of damage on turn 1 untransformed, be able to transform on turn 2 with just one Olivi Grass use (ideally in or near Wrath range) and be tolerably durable transformed. Ranulf always doubles but often needs some help to ORKO - a 50% chance to crit works just fine.

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The first Energy Drop can be obtained in 1-2.

I was talking about the GM drops. As in, the 2-E and the 3-5 Drops. Those Drops face no competition from Jill. Obviously, I am not endorsing carting over a Drop from the DB so we can give it to Kysha.

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The first Energy Drop can be obtained in 1-2.

Lethe's 2-2 isn't bad. She probably saves a turn here. And in 2-E she can probably shove Leanne or something at least.

Perhaps some substantiating of your claim on 2-2 would be nice. I at least bothered to show numbers and reasoning with Kyza's 3-4.

I was talking about the GM drops. As in, the 2-E and the 3-5 Drops. Those Drops face no competition from Jill. Obviously, I am not endorsing carting over a Drop from the DB so we can give it to Kysha.

Not sure what Drops on Kyza would even help. 34 Atk just means he does equal damage to Lethe on stuff she doubles while doing even more to stuff like Swordmasters and Generals, but none of this still does anything substantial.

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