FE9 Tier list v3

[Chiki]

Aeine, a promoted Soren makes a ton of other contributions. With him and 2 paladins a 3 turn of 17-1 is possible. He can ORKO Shisharam with siege tomes, And we need a siege tome user for a bunch of senarios anyway.

Uh... a 2-turn of 17-1 is possible with one Paladin.

By 20 you can easily get Soren to promote anyway... do you not realize how tight bexp is?

[Lord Raven]

no because it's not

either a) you had a very specialized reason to use it (absolute ltc)

or b) you were some shit with managing it

must we go over this again and again

now is there a point to what you are arguing anymore?

Edited August 12, 2012 by Lord Raven

[Hawk King]

@ Aeine

Not without Mordecai, Muarim, and Lethe.

And we are talking about a run with no flier. There will be plenty of extra Bexp. Obviously with Marcia in use, Soren wont be promoting until sometime after Chp 18.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Hawk King

[Chiki]

no because it's not

either a) you had a very specialized reason to use it (absolute ltc)

or b) you were some shit with managing it

must we go over this again and again

now is there a point to what you are arguing anymore?

Please stop repeating the same thing over and over again like a parrot.

^ Not without Mordecai, Muarim, and Lethe.

And we are talking about a run with no flier. There will be plenty of extra Bexp. Obviously with Marcia in use, Soren wont be promoting until sometime after Chp 18.

Why won't Mordecai, Muarim and Lethe be used? Because this is a tier list and LTC isn't assumed?

Well, if LTC isn't assumed, no one is going to give Soren enough bexp to get to level 5 promoted and the Speedwings anyway.

[Aethereal]

Why would you give Titania exp from level 2 to level 6 when she barely benefits from it? Just a few stat-ups.

You do so to make the comparison fairer. No one here is specifically advocating BEXP dumps on Titania, theyre saying "if you gave Titania the same treatment you give Oscar then....", which is still a comparison that favors Oscar when comparing them directly. We're all aware that giving Oscar BEXP is more efficient than giving Titania BEXP if you are planning to use both. The point is that BEXP(and boots for that matter) has a cost, and you need to account for it in SOME manner.

[Lord Raven]

Please stop repeating the same thing over and over again like a parrot.

you never properly countered or responded anything that was said in the first place so i will keep on saying the same things until you do so

[Hawk King]

Idk, Raven has a point, you dont seem to be very proficient at getting your characters Cexp.

How would you go about clearing 15 without a flyer? What strategy would you use?

And the no Mordecai, Muarim, and Lethe thing was in relation to a draft playthrough.

[Spector]

Over five games, every Rolf I've had turned out insanely well. I know personal experience doesn't matter, but what's with him being in the bottom tier?

[Lord Raven]

search this thread for the term "rolf"

[Snowy_One]

Over five games, every Rolf I've had turned out insanely well. I know personal experience doesn't matter, but what's with him being in the bottom tier?

This tier is focused on efficiency. Rolf doesn't even join until chapter 9 at which point he's level 1, well behind other units. Barring some abnormal circumstances he can't counter on the enemy phase due to his weapon type and ends up, on average, pretty much the same as a swordsmaster. You need to invest a LOT of resources into him in order to get him up and running and, when you do, he's below average. Devdan is also below average, but he didn't cost us as much.

[Hawk King]

Stats dont matter if a unit cant attack from 1 AND 2 range. Rolf cant attack from 1 range and therefore cannot obliterate every enemy he comes in contact with. Even if all his stats were capped at base it will still take him 5 turns to kill 5 enemies who attack from 1 range, and he needs to worry about being surrounded.

Combine all if this with the fact that he comes extremely underleveled, and you get Rofl.

[Snowy_One]

Stats dont matter if a unit cant attack from 1 AND 2 range. Rolf cant attack from 1 range and therefore cannot obliterate every enemy he comes in contact with. Even if all his stats were capped at base it will still take him 5 turns to kill 5 enemies who attack from 1 range, and he needs to worry about being surrounded.

Combine all if this with the fact that he comes extremely underleveled, and you get Rofl.

I disagree that being unable to counter at 1-range is as huge a downside as you seem to think. We are not being swarmed by a multitude of enemies all at once after all and it is NOT difficult at all to end with Rolf behind another unit. Reyson RELIES on this since he has no real defenses to speak of. He's one of the frailest units of the game and can't counter at all, so if the enemy-swarm is so bad that Rolf can't be fielded, shouldn't it also be so bad that Reyson can't be fielded?

[Lord Raven]

the point is exaggerated; the enemy density in this game isn't huge that one would fear a swarm. The only time you ever get swarmed is if you fly Marcia over to the middle of enemy lines or some shit.

[Samias]

If you are slowplaying, there is nothing wrong with Rolf. In fact, if you can cap strength, speed, and skill, he appreciates the heightened bases and better bow rank in RD. However, in a run with efficiency in mind, it is much easier to leave Rolf on the bench and skip Shinon as well. Speaking from experience, the game was cleared considerably faster when I favoured mounts and left Rolf on the bench compared to when I would sacrifice bexp to bring Rolf up to par with everyone else.

[VGE]

Yeah, not reading 156 pages worth of posts.

Devdan > Rolf

Why? Devdan is one of the worst units in the game. :x In my honest opinion.

[Lord Raven]

just search devdan in the search bar... seriously guys, rolf is absolutely terrible, devdan is miles better (especially because Devdan has some good supports)

[Florete]

Yeah, not reading 156 pages worth of posts.

Devdan > Rolf

Why? Devdan is one of the worst units in the game. :x In my honest opinion.

I don't even know if that counts as an argument, but hey, the tier list agrees with you!

[Snowy_One]

Devdan actually isn't *horrible*. He CAN be redeemed. The problem is that redeeming him nets you another hali, a unit who is almost the definition of 'average'. But he has a lower cost (I think), and ends up better, so yea... Devdan > Rolf.

[-Cynthia-]

Devdan can counter at 1 range and 1-2 range, which is when most enemies die in an efficient playthrough. Also yeah Rolf is an "expensive" unit because he starts off very poorly.

[Snowy_One]

Why is Devdan below Gatrie and Brom? Yea, I know he's slow and kinda bad, but Devdan can fight. All have fairly high costs for continual use, but Devdan's is lower despite his later join-time and, while he will never shine, due to his higher movement and better joining level, I'd say his costs are lower and his reward greater than Brom or Gatrie.

[Florete]

For once I agree with Snowy, although Gatrie might be able to stay higher for his early-game use.

Brom is really worthless, though.

[Snowy_One]

I'm not entirely sure Gatrie has the early game either. If you measure efficiency via low turn counts you will maul through any chapter that isn't 8 with the better GM's before Gatrie can do much. Shinon is actually more useful due to constant doubling (but that's irrelevant). Conversely, if you DON'T care about turn-counts, Gatrie's one special thing is his high DEF. While this is useful on chapter 8 (again) it makes more sense to raise up the other GM's as they'll be more available and more consistent. Even if we ignore that the simple fact is that the only unique use for Gatrie in those chapters is as bait. Otherwise he's like the other GM's, except with much worse doubling.

Sure, it's better than Devdan's complete absence, but I'm not sure it's much more than a tie-breaker.

[Florete]

Well, I'm not going to argue Gatrie vs Devdan since I can go really go either way, but I've wanted Brom down for a while. I honestly think he should be in Bottom tier. Shinon's early game is easily better than anything Brom ever does.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Red Fox of Fire

[-Cynthia-]

I'm not entirely sure Gatrie has the early game either. If you measure efficiency via low turn counts you will maul through any chapter that isn't 8 with the better GM's before Gatrie can do much. Shinon is actually more useful due to constant doubling (but that's irrelevant). Conversely, if you DON'T care about turn-counts, Gatrie's one special thing is his high DEF. While this is useful on chapter 8 (again) it makes more sense to raise up the other GM's as they'll be more available and more consistent. Even if we ignore that the simple fact is that the only unique use for Gatrie in those chapters is as bait. Otherwise he's like the other GM's, except with much worse doubling.

Sure, it's better than Devdan's complete absence, but I'm not sure it's much more than a tie-breaker.

Gatrie is pretty decent against the knights in Chapter 7. He can 2RKO them (and counters on enemy phase), Shinon can't even 2RKO them on consecutive player phases. Shinon is a bit better offensively against some enemy types, but it's the knights that are the most relevant given where Gatrie and Shinon enter the map. I'll agree that Gatrie doesn't do much except for C7 though, but Shinon adds even less to an efficient playthrough IMO.

I think we should be careful about lowering the armors too much because of one less move than other foot units- there are a number of foot units higher than mounted units (the myrmidons higher than Haar/Geoffrey for instance), and the difference between a mount and a foot unit is greater than one between a foot unit and an armor. Brom and Gatrie can have a number of advantages over Devdan once he shows up (Strength, Defense, Speed with KW usage). This does usually require some BEXP though.

Edited August 31, 2012 by -Cynthia-

[Florete]

I think we should be careful about lowering the armors too much because of one less move than other foot units- there are a number of foot units higher than mounted units (the myrmidons higher than Haar/Geoffrey for instance), and the difference between a mount and a foot unit is greater than one between a foot unit and an armor. Brom and Gatrie can have a number of advantages over Devdan once he shows up (Strength, Defense, Speed with KW usage). This does usually require some BEXP though.

It's not just 1 less move, they get the worst terrain costs and they're the hardest to Shove and Rescue. For Brom in particular, even if he can reach enemies, he can't double and doesn't usually do much damage. Living is about all he can do well (and even that wears off later when he hasn't gotten enough levels to keep his durability high). I'd definitely take Devdan's free mediocrity over Brom sucking my resources to suck on maps.