Allan's Aokage Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 I have plot-based objections towards Nealuchi rejoining with Ulki and Janaff. Otherwise? Seems (mostly) fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Fang Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 yeah the Raven teaming with the Hawks wouldn't work since king Raven stabbed the lot of them in the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan's Aokage Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 yeah the Raven teaming with the Hawks wouldn't work since king Raven stabbed the lot of them in the back. There's that but it can be explained away by Nealuchi not agreeing with Naesala or some such. But if a raven started fighting for the Laguz Alliance, Lekain would wipe them out. Plus, Ashera would have been awoken quicker if there'd been a raven truly in the conflict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progenitus Posted November 15, 2009 Author Share Posted November 15, 2009 There's a bunch of changes made that don't make sense with the plot, like Ilyana ditching her merchant friends or the CRKs abandoning Elincia... Anyway, I'm more concerned about balancing the characters/gameplay over storyline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progenitus Posted November 15, 2009 Author Share Posted November 15, 2009 (edited) Neph Problems Neph's problem is that her part 2 is really awful. She has difficulties doubling with a decent weapon, and her str and def bases were pretty much the worst out of anyone not named Astrid or Heather. Because she's so underleveled, she also struggles in early part 3. She's fine after that, but she needs something to get out of her slump earlier. Well, at least wrath is more useful now, but it doesn't really help her part 2 as she's not durable enough to walk around at half HP. Also, because halb res cap increased, she needs a res buff or else she's going to be terrible at BEXPing. Changes - +2 str/def bases, +5 lck base - +25 res growth Results She now has decent AS with the steel greatlance on top of more respectable attack, and is a bit better at taking hits. The lck was needed since 12 base lck is pretty poor. As said earlier, the res growth boost was needed to let her BEXP better. Her part 2 is still a bit rough, but it's more manageable, and her performance afterwards becomes much better. Edited November 16, 2009 by 8========================D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progenitus Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) Heather Problems The local lesbian just sucks at everything except thieving and speed, I guess to make up for her lack of skills at sucking other things. Horrible str, horrible def, bad weapon type, bad class... caps and knives don't suck anymore, but she still has big problems. Changes - +10 HP/lck base, +2 str base - +20 str growth, +40 HP growth Results Straightforward changes. HP/lck for more durability and for BEXP abusing, str for more damage. Edited November 16, 2009 by 8========================D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 That doesn't really help her horrible defense, and she still needs a boost to her base strength. She could have +100 to her strength growth, but it's still a pain to level her up, so it wouldn't help her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progenitus Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 After thinking about it, you're right. I think it'd be pretty boring if we just boosted her def base (probably boost her spd/lck first, maybe skl or something too) but yeah, a str base boost is needed. Lemme get back to you on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narga_Rocks Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 After thinking about it, you're right. I think it'd be pretty boring if we just boosted her def base (probably boost her spd/lck first, maybe skl or something too) but yeah, a str base boost is needed. Lemme get back to you on it. How do you feel about switching affinities? The GMs don't have much thunder, although I suppose Muarim is showing up in 3-4 now and Mak in 3-2. Oh well, so much for that. Still, giving her a more defensive affinity now that she has a 50% str growth and a higher str cap (and possibly soon to have a higher str base) and better weapons might work since fire may be unnecessary. The luck base with her already good spd base and growth and her luck growth are good for avo if she can pull a dark/water/thunder/wind support. She'll actually cap luck pretty quickly, though, since I think you made all tier 2 luck caps 30. She does have a 75% luck growth, if I'm remembering it right (my internet connection is kinda slow right now so I'm not checking). I guess capping spd and luck quickly could help her bexp prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progenitus Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) Lucia Problems HEY GUYS WHAT IF WE MADE MIA 7 LEVELS HIGHER WITH THE SAME BASES AND CRAPPIER GROWTHS AND HAD 1 CHAPTER BEFORE PART 4 INSTEAD OF 11? BUT HAD A BETTER AFFINITY? Sums up Lucia pretty well. AKA she needed a huge revamp. Changes - Playable in 3-11 and 3-E - Triple str/mag/def growths. Results I initially wanted to remove her from 2-2 and just make her a level 1 Trueblade in 4-2, but thought about it and decided not to. Instead I'll keep her in 2-2, give her some more chapters, and buff her growths. Edited November 18, 2009 by 8========================D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progenitus Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 Lethe Problems The differences between Lethe and Mordy is simply more proof that IS doesn't know how to balance anything. HEY GUYS LETS GIVE MORDY A DOUBLE DIGIT LEAD IN STR AND DEF AND BETTER LAGUZ WEAPON AND BETTER AFFINITY AND BETTER GAUGE, AND THEN LET'S GIVE LETHE SOME MORE SPD EVEN THOUGH SHE'S STILL BORDERLINE DOUBLING FOR SOME STUPID REASON AND THEN SHE WINS USELESS STATS LIKE MAG AND RES Aside from cat gauge being a bigger joke than the Detroit Lions, Lethe for some reason is not overkilling spd to compensate for her being shitty in everything else. Changes - New bases... 51 HP, 11 str, 6 mag, 13 skl, 14 spd, 21 lck, 9 def, 8 res - New growths... 85 HP, 55 str, 5 mag, 40 skl, 60 spd, 65 lck, 25 def, 20 res - A strike Results The initial plan is to turn Lethe into the offensive cat (which also complements Mordy being a super tank, as they both join in 2-2), while Lyre becomes the defensive cat and Ranulf is balanced. Good spd/lck also gives her decent avoid. Basically she's a laguz version of a swordmaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progenitus Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 Mordy Problems In the normal game, Mordy was already around the target area due to being a great resolve user coupled with ridiculous def. However, now that there's no real incentive to remove resolve, he got a bit nerfed. Also, for some strange reason his str growth is low (35) for someone who has more con than everyone except Gareth. Changes - +10 str/spd growth - A strike Results He still won't double anything, but perhaps he might if given a speedwing. As overkill as Mordy's def is, I just can't touch it. It's too lulzy to see how IS thought it would be balanced to give an early joiner 32 base def. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progenitus Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) Geoffrey Problems He suffers from "LOLPALADINBASES" syndrome, where paladins end up getting really shitty bases for their level. Fortunately for Geof he's so overleveled when he joins in 3-2 so it's not as horrible as people like Astrid and Mak, but it's still a problem. He also suffers from "LOLAVAILABILITY" syndrome, where he has no semblance of availability. And he also suffers from "LOLGROWTHS" syndrome, where he pretty easily has one of the 10 worst growth spreads out of all the beorcs in the game. 50 str is good, but 35 spd and 30 def are not. How to fix him? Well, he's rejoining in 3-2 (along with all the other CRKs) so his availability is fixed. He's going to need a boost to his bases and growths though. Even with paragon (which isn't going to really give him more exp since being so overleveled he's getting single digit exp) his stats would be pretty bad if he didn't get buffed. Changes - New bases... 42 HP, 21 str, 8 mag, 21 skl, 21 spd, 21 lck, 21 def, 21 res - New growths... 90 HP, 45 str, 10 mag, 45 skl, 45 spd, 45 lck, 45 def, 45 res Results Basically Geoffrey is pretty balanced in stats. Mostly cause of the lulz, but also because his FE9 def base was 21, so I brought it back, and then went "oh wtf just make everything 21 lolz". I'm actually not sure if this is balanced right now, but whatever. I can come back to it later. Edited November 16, 2009 by 8========================D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progenitus Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 Kieran Problems And here's yet another great example of IS balance. Kieran and Haar have the same base level and join at similar times. They even have the same affinity. Haar has 5 HP, 2 str, 4 skl, 5 def (wtf). Kieran has 4 mag, 3 lck, 4 res. Haar has an overall better growth spread (more str/skl/def/lck, while Kieran wins HP/mag/res) Haar beats Kieran in every stat cap in BOTH tiers except mag (lol), res (lol), HP in 3rd tier and lck in both tiers (tie). Not to mention how wyvern mount >>> horse mount. Haar then goes off to the GMs and does shit for liek 10 chapters before Kieran even rejoins the GMs. GREAT BALANCING, IS But that's enough of that. For someone who's supposed to have good str and def, Kieran's str and def bases are shitty, and his stats in general are bad. Changes - New bases... 41 HP. 23 str, 6 mag, 20 skl, 20 spd, 19 lck, 22 def, 11 res - New growths... 75 HP, 60 str, 15 mag, 40 skl, 35 spd, 40 lck, 60 def, 35 res Results Straightforward. Good str/def, low spd/res. Decent HP/skl/lck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progenitus Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 Astrid Problems Ike: Astrid, what happened to your bases? Astrid: You took them. Ike: Oh. And what happened to your growths? Astrid: Gatrie took them. Ike: And your availability? Astrid: Haar took them. Ike: Hmmm.... WELL AT LEAST YOU HAVE PARAGON TO GIVE TO US! Astrid: ALRIGHT! I could really go on with Astrid's problems, but you know what? Fuck it. Changes - Change growths to bandit growths (105 HP, 60 str, 5 mag, 85 skl, 75 spd, 70 lck, 90 def, 50 res) Results I couldn't resist, mate. Although given how ridiculously broken bandit growths are, I'm not sure if she'll become too good. Given her horrible bases, though, hopefully it'll take awhile for her to get out of the hole even with paragon. But we'll have to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narga_Rocks Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) Lucia The only real way to keep her part 4 up to par without having her ball out of control in 2-2 is to just remove her. She needed a buff to bases since she's entering part 4 unsupported and has to be comparable to other units who do have supports. However, she eventually starts up her earth support, which means she needed poor growths to balance her out (which is why her growths didn't change). Well, depending on how you feel about it you could give her an auto C or B with Bastian. I, of course, have no idea what you'll do with Bastian in terms of availability. Lucia now appears to start in 4-2, and if you did the same with Bastian it could help. You buffed her bases, I assume, under the assumption she starts supportless, so I suppose if you choose to give her even an auto C you'd maybe need to cut them back. Just a thought. Astrid Problems Ike: Astrid, what happened to your bases? Astrid: You took them. Ike: Oh. And what happened to your growths? Astrid: Gatrie took them. Ike: And your availability? Astrid: Haar took them. Ike: Hmmm.... WELL AT LEAST YOU HAVE PARAGON TO GIVE TO US! Astrid: ALRIGHT! I could really go on with Astrid's problems, but you know what? Fuck it. Changes - Change growths to bandit growths (105 HP, 60 str, 5 mag, 85 skl, 75 spd, 70 lck, 90 def, 50 res) Results I couldn't resist, mate. Although given how ridiculously broken bandit growths are, I'm not sure if she'll become too good. Given her horrible bases, though, hopefully it'll take awhile for her to get out of the hole even with paragon. But we'll have to see. I think for the fun of it somebody had to get Bandit growths. She'll certainly take a while before it starts working out for her, and no matter how overpowered she may or may not become as a result it probably balances over time. She still starts with just 10 def, so the 90% def will mean it still isn't good until near promotion. I think you gave them a secondary weapon before promotion, so Astrid's def could actually matter before promotion. So that helps balance. Also, 15 spd base with 75% growth still means it takes 12 levels just to hit 24 AS. So again, even with innate paragon and double incentive to leave it on her, it probably isn't a problem. 13 str base and 60% growth means str will likely be her weakest stat, aside from mag and eventually res. Which is, of course, fine. As you said, it is possible she'll become too good. Also, Rolf and Mist already get a fair amount of exp in 3-P. In 3-2 enemies range from level 7 to level 10. If she is level 4 by 3-2, she can get 26 x2 exp from level 8 enemies. She will level like a rocket, but I don't think she becomes too good until 3-8 or so. Having no bonus for leaving things alive in 2-3 helps her level more, but I still think she won't become a problem until her lifetime is half over. I think her potential pwning would about cancel out her sucking early on. And even if not, giving a character Bandit growths is just too much fun. Edited November 16, 2009 by Narga_Rocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interceptor Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 [...] simply more proof that IS doesn't know how to balance anything. In fairness to IS, you're no Balance Jesus. They have operate within the constraints of a storyline, which you've basically eviscerated. You've also defined "balance" as everyone contributing about the same in shared chapters, which is necessarily scrubbing away the differences between classes/weaponry/mechanics. As Al Roker would say: some things are good, some things are bad. To take it to an extreme, I can balance Street Fighter by making all of the characters Ken Masters, that doesn't mean that it's a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaMonkey Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) Stop boss abusing. It's impossible for Vika to gain 12 levels in 3 chapters, especially since she levels like a 20/6 beorc. She's fighting untransformed though... (and I'm playing on easy = double EXP). As for Astrid, I think she's a lost cause myself, as without a str/spd transfer, she can't even double the 2-3 enemies on easy (god knows why I've decided to use her in my current run...). Edited November 17, 2009 by NinjaMonkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 [...] simply more proof that IS doesn't know how to balance anything. In fairness to IS, you're no Balance Jesus. They have operate within the constraints of a storyline, which you've basically eviscerated. This would matter more if the plot was awesome or even good, but as it stands Micaiah should've just been named Mary and left it at that, Pelleas is alright I guess... But the rest of the original characters of the DB have less combined personality than your average piece of lint, and the only thing the returning cast does is bitch to their friends on the opposite side how they wish it didn't have to come to this. The ones that aren't around in Part 3 don't even get that much, as Tormod is reduced to making commentary on how big Sothe and Ike have grown, Lucia to being a pretext to showcasing the GMs (and their crappy VAs for people not named Shinon), and Stefan to laughing in god's face. Most of the availability changes don't even effect the plot in a substantial way (dear god, Tormod joins the Laguz fight for freedom? WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT). The only two worth crying about are Ilyana and arguably Nealuchi (and even then he's randomly chilling with Leanne in the middle of Crimea, so it's not like his plot consistency was spectacular anyway). One has to wonder what IS was doing when I could have done the same balance job with a dartboard and wrote the same plot with cardboard cutouts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interceptor Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 (edited) This would matter more if the plot was awesome or even good [...] It matters even if the plot is bad. The storyline of this game may be silly, but the framework it sets up creates "balance" issues. It's much easier to "balance" Lucia when you can just boot her out of 2-2 because you feel like it. One has to wonder what IS was doing when I could have done the same balance job with a dartboard and wrote the same plot with cardboard cutouts. Your idea of "balance" is not the gold standard for the industry. Edited November 17, 2009 by Interceptor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaMonkey Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Changes - Change growths to bandit growths (105 HP, 60 str, 5 mag, 85 skl, 75 spd, 70 lck, 90 def, 50 res) Doesn't this make Astrid a broken unit (especially with Parablossom)? And how can you have a HP growth of more than 100%? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ether Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Growths over 100 have happened before in the series past,and those are the growths of the generic bandit.I think it's mostly just for the lol factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progenitus Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 Makalov Problems Mak actually has a pretty good growth spread (75 spd and 50 def yesplz. 40 str is bleh, but you can't have everything unless you're Gatrie). His new availability fixes up most of his problems. The last one being a poor spd base; despite a high growth he'll still struggle to double. Of course 17 def base is also pretty bad, but... Changes - +4 spd base - Give him a makeover Results Pretty simple. Now he should double quickly and eventually will get good durability (high def growth + thunder affinity). Too bad he's still ugly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progenitus Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 DevdanDanved Problems Despite Danved's claim that he fights like 10 men, he, in fact, does not. Danved's problem, aside from availability, is that he's supposed to be the middle-of-the-road halberdier, yet he loses str AND def to Neph at equal levels (and obv loses spd), and he's not that much faster over Aran to warrant losing in str and def by so much. In other words, he sucks. Changes - New bases... 39 HP, 20 str, 8 mag, 23 skl, 23 spd, 18 lck, 20 def, 12 res - New growths... - 75 HP, 45 str, 20 mag, 30 skl, 50 spd, 75 lck, 45 def, 25 res Results We can now actually call him the middle-of-the-road halberdier. Fairly good all around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progenitus Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 Calill Problems For a mage that's supposed to be fast, Calill's spd base is freaking terrible. Liek, same as Soren's, and barely better than a 20/6 Brom's. Anyway, we decided to make Calill into the balanced mage. Changes - New bases... 32 HP, 9 str, 19 mag, 22 skl, 21 spd, 20 lck, 12 def, 17 res - New growths... 35 HP, 20 str, 50 mag, 60 skl, 55 spd, 55 lck, 35 def, 50 res Results Ilyana excels in mag/def and Tormod excels in spd/def. The plan was to make Soren excel in mag/spd. So Calill can be average in all three. Well, topped with pretty good skl/lck/res. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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