Proposed FE 6 HM tier list.

[Inui]

Based on going to Sacae and Ilia half the time each. There is no order in each tier, as assigning an order is difficult and often inaccurate and requires weighing things based on opinions a lot. It is based on ranks.

-Top Tier-

Alan

Dieck

Clarine

Lance

Miredy

Percival

Rutger

-High Tier-

Chad

Echidna

Ellen

Elphin

Fir

Gonzales

Lalum

Lugh

Ray

Saul

Shin

-Upper Mid Tier-

Lot

Marcus

Roy

Tate

-Mid Tier-

Garret

Igrene

Klein

Noah

Oujay

Thany

Treck

Zealot

-Lower Mid Tier-

Bartre

Cecilia

Douglas

Fa

Geese

Hugh

Lilina

Niime

Ward

Zeiss

-Low Tier-

Barth

Bors

Cath

Dayan

Karel

Sue

Yodel

-Bottom Tier-

Dorothy

Wolt

Sophia

Wendy

Yuno

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here I will justify my differences with other tier lists.

Clarine is top tier. She is literally invincible after promotion and has h4x Crit to make up for her offensive woes in Mag. Being able to bait everything on the map and have them whiff every single time and then eat two hits is amazing. Almost nobody is one-rounding anyways. On top of that, she's also making two other units invincible. She has a horse and heals. She's probably the best character in the game for the Experience rank.

Ellen = Saul except with better supports, more Lck/Res, and less in pretty much everything else. Her Spd growth sucks, but her base is amazing and she gets some Spd after promotion. Due her class bonus in EXP and her having access to staves, she's an incredible boon to the Experience rank. She's also Lugh's best support partner and they grant each other full offensive bonuses (turning Lugh into a cannon of destruction) and partial Evd, which is good for both of them.

Lugh starts off a little bad, but it's managable. People need to hop off of Mages when it comes to joining problems. He doesn't take counters when he attacks and he almost never misses. This means he can deal damage and gain EXP every turn without many problems. When he joins, you have Marcus the God around to easily shield him and Dieck, Lance, and Alan are getting pretty good and durable already. Protecting this unit and giving him kills is easy. After he's done with the protection stage (a few chapters), he becomes very solid offensively. Once he promotes (at or around Chapter 16 or so if you promote Clarine/Ellen/Saul first), which can even be with the first Guiding Ring, he gains the ability to heal (and thus becomes good for the Experience rank and has a second use) and has amazing offense. Lugh with Aircalibur slaughters the Wyvern Riders that are plentiful in this game and his decent Evd coupled with almost never taking counters makes him durable.

Ray is a good character. It pained me to see him in the same tier as garbage like Barth and Ward. He is often two tiers lower than he should be. Like Lugh, his joining situation isn't good at all, but it's actually better than that of earlygame units. He gets to fight units that have both poor Evd and Res right after he joins and he doesn't need to take counters except from lolfail hand axes that will miss him. He can support Lugh very quickly for full Hit and Evd bonuses, so there goes his initial Hit and Evd problems. Lugh wants the support, as well. After working him to promotion, he's invincible and has added utility as a healer. He can use Nosferatu tomes, which you can purchase, to achieve infinite durability. In the cases he gets hit, he's getting all of that HP back anyways. Even if he takes two hits from Nomads in Sacae, he's getting all of that HP back since the damage he does to them in one hit exceeds what he takes in two.

Shin is high tier. He is extremely easy to level up because he doesn't take counters, doubles pretty much right away, and has amazing bases. His bases are wtfamazing to the point where he could probably promote at his base level and end up with decent stats. Not only is he easy to raise up, but he has massive EXP gains for a while, meaning he does a lot for the Experience rank. Whether you go to Ilia or Sacae, he is destroying everything. He can actually double the enemy nomads in most cases and counters their bows. I don't see how he's not high tier when he slaughters some high tiers in stats even shortly after joining, like Echidna, and he actually one-rounds Wyverns when most units can't. Echidna can't without a critical.

Fir is high tier. How is Rutger two tiers better when they both do the same thing when Fir gets going? Like Shin, she starts off with very powerful stats and huge EXP gains and gets to fight crappy enemies she doubles and can actually Evd. Her joining power actually exceeds that of a level 5 Lance/Alan if they were at that level in Chapter 1. Saying she is hard to raise is laughable even if she does take counters since she gets to eat axe users alive for huge EXP gains and then gain Evd very quickly. Her support with Shin offers full Evd and builds both easily and quickly.

Lalum and Elphin are both not high tier. Why is this? They are locked to 5 Mov and 100% useless (and even sometimes burdens) on the enemy phase. It's often better to just field an additional combat unit. Lalum gets bonus points for supporting Echidna that make her clearly better than Elphin, but both have too many big issues to be considered that good. They're not Ninian/Nils with h4x rings and initially good durability.

Tate is good. HM boosted. Good for the Experience rank when she joins. Has top tier mobility. Supports with Klein for good durability for both of them and they both want that support.

The entire lower mid tier section makes no sense to me. How is Cecilia the best one according to some people when she has 10 Spd with a 25% growth and a horrendous base in Skl making it hard for her to even hit things? Yes, she has a horse and heals, but you already have so many healers that vastly outclass her in everything. Ellen, Saul, Clarine, Lugh, and Ray all destroy her. What is she adding to the team besides being a back-up healer and being a unit you must shield at all times?

Barth is low tier. Observe. Fa is clearly a tier higher than Barth.

Garret is much better than Cecilia. Observe. Both are absolutely slaughtered in the Sacae route. Cecilia can counter, but she dies much more easily. Garret, however, is actually very solid in the Ilia route and gets bonuses points for raping the same things Cecilia rapes except harder, namely Wyverns and Armors. Garret gets to one-shot things with slayer weapons.

Due to this, how can that tier have so many units in it? I have divided the tier further due to differences in units that I see.

Merlinus is unranked. I don't even see how carrying 100 items for you and being mobile on the field while doing so makes him bottom tier.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Inui

[Florete]

We kinda already have one.

Oh wait, this is for ranks. Better specify that in the title.

[Inui]

That tier list makes me cry.

I added that it's for ranks in the OP. How else can you make a tier list? Might as well say Dieck = best by far since you can abuse him to 20/20 Hero in Chapter 7.

[Icon of Sin]

You got Garret twice in Mid tier, mate. Ilia for the upper one or it's just a mistake?

Edited February 2, 2010 by BsTrD

[Inui]

Mistake.

REMEMBER THERE IS NO ORDER WITHIN THE TIERS AT THIS TIME.

[Florete]

That tier list makes me cry.

I'm sorry to hear that, but it's had plenty of discussion and if you read into some of it you should find that most of it is reasonable.

I added that it's for ranks in the OP.

I would suggest putting it in the title to make it more clear.

How else can you make a tier list? Might as well say Dieck = best by far since you can abuse him to 20/20 Hero in Chapter 7.

You're not really going to take this approach, are you?

[Inui]

If you don't count rankings, you can abuse all you want. Dieck with C Clarine/C Rutger absolutely crushes that arena and can be put to 20/20 easily.

I don't see the merit in making a tier list without counting the rankings.

Edit: It's not letting me use the full editor to edit the title...

Edited February 2, 2010 by Inui

[Florete]

If you don't count rankings, you can abuse all you want. Dieck with C Clarine/C Rutger absolutely crushes that arena and can be put to 20/20 easily.

There's a very easy way around that. "No abuse." Bam, problem solved. Ranks are just a set of rules the game gives you, why can't we create our own that we feel make more sense?

I don't see the merit in making a tier list without counting the rankings.

So what do you do for FE8/9/10?

Edit: It's not letting me use the full editor to edit the title...

That's strange. I thought they changed it so anyone could edit that. In that case, you should just PM one of the staff.

[CATS]

So I guess you think it is impossible to make a tier list for FE8?

Anyways.

Saul is a tier below Ellen? He has significantly better offense and is better at not getting OHKO'd. He has bad luck, but just a C with Ellen herself for +5 CEV can prevent most enemies from critting him, and even though it's 1/+1 it's quite viable because of the absurdly high turncounts allowed by FE6 ranks. You are allowed to take a total of 65 turns in Ch 6, 7 and 8 alone and still get 5 stars in Tactics. I don't see why Saul should be a tier down on Ellen.

[Inui]

The rules the game provides make complete and perfect sense. How do they not? Finishing efficiently, gaining a lot of EXP to make a good team, not spending all of your money and managing it well, etc. It all makes sense and gives us something to base a tier list on.

FEs 8, 9, and 10 are annoying to make tier lists for, so I often don't bother. Please note that I have not posted in those boards here yet besides once or twice and might not actually ever do so. In the cases of those games, we must apply similar rules to the previous games or at least count pure efficiency in terms of battle power, finishing quickly, and money.

Ellen joins earlier and her offense doesn't really end up worse. In fact, it could be better. Against enemies neither doubles or both double, Ellen wins big time with her much higher Atk, Crit, and Hit. If Saul doubles and she doesn't, which isn't all that frequent, he wins. Ellen's durability isn't so bad after supports. Ellen needs to be 20/5 to avoid being one-shotted by level 20 Wyvern Riders with Steel Lances, and that is without supports. She'll clearly be higher than that when such enemies appear. She also kinda rapes Saul badly in supports due to Lugh.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Inui

[Florete]

The rules the game provides make complete and perfect sense. How do they not? Finishing efficiently, gaining a lot of EXP to make a good team, not spending all of your money and managing it well, etc. It all makes sense and gives us something to base a tier list on.

Because we like the idea of simply beating the game, and ranks contradict that. Experience is worthless on its own aside from the actual rank, and Funds means you may have to horde items like stat boosters (More so in FE7 than 6 because 6's Tactics rank is so lenient, allowing more use of the Arena) that could be used to help you beat the game faster. When you put ranks aside, you realize that some of the goals they set only actually help to achieve those ranks and don't help you in any other way, and often hurt your progress in simply beating the game.

[Dat Nick]

Don't forget gems, whose sole purpose is to be sold for money

BUT GUESS WHAT YOU CANT SELL THE DAMN THINGS FOR MONEY

then you have promotion items which cost 10k. Are you REALLY not going to use these things because "they hurt your funds rank by 10k" normally? There's seriously an assload of money in this game, I don't know what the hell you're doing with all of it.

Essentially, the only thing Efficiency Lists cater to are the Tactics rank, or turncount, so no arena abuse Dick to 20/20 bullshit.

[CATS]

Much higher Atk, Crit and Hit? I guess you haven't actually looked at their stats lately. They have the same Mag at 20/1 and Ellen's Mag growth is 10% higher. Likewise Saul actually has higher Skl. Ellen will ofcourse end up with more Crit due to her Lugh support, but it's like +10. And I don't know why you think either one will have trouble hitting things. Maybe the rly fast enemies, but Ellen gets doubled by those, so Saul still has a strong case.

As for the doubling, Saul wins in Spd by 5 points at 20/1 and by 7 points at 20/10. Ellen having something like +2 Atk and +10 Crit isn't clearly better than that at all, and if I had to pick one I'd definitely go with Saul's Spd.

On getting OHKO'd I was referring to earlier in the game where she can get one-shotted by Hand Axes, although later it can still be an issue with Silver Lance Dragon Lords. Regardless defense I see as a tough call. Saul has higher Hp/Def on units that are sorely lacking in it, and Ellen will get doubled by fast enemies (lol Sacae), but she does have better Avo and CEV.

[Inui]

Guess what? In FE 7, the Silver Card makes getting 5 stars in Funds quite simple, and not consuming a promotional item is better since that money can be used on other things instead. I don't see how being cost-efficient isn't a benefit when cash is limited. You could sell promotional items to buy awesome weapons and use Echidna over Oujay or something like that. That's a benefit Echidna always has over unpromoted units.

Experience I can see ass bullshit. That sort of annoys me. Everything else makes absolutely perfect sense, though. Taking away the Experience rank hardly changes much. It bumps down Saul and Ellen slightly, I guess. Maybe Clarine goes to the top of high tier, but I'd still see her as top.

CATS, Ellen is getting full offensive bonuses from A Lugh by the time they are both promoted. She's is kinda raping him in offensive areas that aren't Atk Spd.

Do you think Ellen should move to Saul's tier or the other way around?

Edited February 2, 2010 by Inui

[Florete]

Guess what? In FE 7, the Silver Card makes getting 5 stars in Funds quite simple, and not consuming a promotional item is better since that money can be used on other things instead. I don't see how being cost-efficient isn't a benefit when cash is limited. You could sell promotional items to buy awesome weapons and use Echidna over Oujay or something like that. That's a benefit Echidna always has over unpromoted units.

Wait, you're not trying to tell us the Funds rank actually helps you to be in a better financial situation, are you? Please tell me I'm misreading.

Wait, I think I am. I think you're talking about how using a promotion item is a disadvantage. Well yeah, I agree, but when you're swimming in cash it becomes more of a tie-breaker than anything.

Experience I can see ass bullshit. That sort of annoys me. Everything else makes absolutely perfect sense, though. Taking away the Experience rank hardly changes much. It bumps down Saul and Ellen slightly, I guess. Maybe Clarine goes to the top of high tier, but I'd still see her as top.

It affects FE7 more than this game, but going strictly by ranks in this game also means that you can use the over-lenient Tactics requirement to your advantage, which kind of goes against the idea of a Tactics rank in the first place.

And I still don't see how Funds makes any sense itself. Maybe it's just me, but I like blowing money and using stat boosters.

[Tangerine]

What I find funny about this topic is that Inui is suggesting efficiency tier lists encourage arena/boss abuse, but in FE6 it's REALLY ranked tier lists that encourage it. I posted the numbers when I first joined; you have over 600 turns in FE6 to S-rank Tactics, which means you have TONS of time for support and arena abuse. You should make use of it for the exp rank too.

[Dat Nick]

Guess what? In FE 7, the Silver Card makes getting 5 stars in Funds quite simple

okay

not changing the fact that hoarding gems is retarded

and not consuming a promotional item is better since that money can be used on other things instead.

When there's actually things to USE it on. You have a likely surplus of bolts to sell anyway (the odds of any archer not named Shin in play are honestly quite low) in addition to these gems we aren't hoarding any more and possibly icons/books. You can't really do a lot with 5k in this game. Money is limited, it's still plentiful. *points to PoR, it's an intensified analogy but it works*

Everything else makes absolutely perfect sense, though.

Funds would make sense if it didn't contradict itself, nor the purpose that money exists to be spent. All beating the game with half a million on you tells me is that you're a penny-pincher.

[Candlejack]

Does not Exist Tier:

Juno

[Inui]

Wait, you're not trying to tell us the Funds rank actually helps you to be in a better financial situation, are you? Please tell me I'm misreading.

Wait, I think I am. I think you're talking about how using a promotion item is a disadvantage. Well yeah, I agree, but when you're swimming in cash it becomes more of a tie-breaker than anything.

You're not swimming in cash in FE 6. No Silver Card. In that case, not needing a promotional item is good. It also means you're not stopping some other unit from promoting earlier.

And I still don't see how Funds makes any sense itself. Maybe it's just me, but I like blowing money and using stat boosters.

Even considering that, being cheaper = better.

It affects FE7 more than this game, but going strictly by ranks in this game also means that you can use the over-lenient Tactics requirement to your advantage, which kind of goes against the idea of a Tactics rank in the first place.

It's not lenient enough to actually validate abuse. It lets you do a little bit of turn-wasting for supports and the arena, but that's not abuse. As I stated in a previous topic, abuse is relative. What one person views as abuse might not be abuse to another.

You know what fixes that? The Tactics rank the game provides. They you have it. No way to make an opinion matter. You have something concrete to go off of. No arguements of "well 5 turns in the arena doesn't matter much compared to 7, really" due to the Tactics rank setting a requirement.

Tactics rank: Easily makes the most sense.

Combat rank: Easily makes perfect sense. Winning battles more quickly = better. One-rounding = better.

Survival: Actually, fuck Tactics. This one makes even more sense. Don't die.

Funds: It doesn't always makes sense, but cost efficiency is something that should always be considered. Not consuming a promotional item and being able to use cheaper weapons, for instance, is always a benefit to the entire team overall since it allows use of cash in other areas.

Experience: I agree, it's gay.

Anyways, stop debating about where or not ranks matter. This is a tier list based on ranks. End of story.

[Florete]

No Silver Card.

What?

In that case, not needing a promotional item is good. It also means you're not stopping some other unit from promoting earlier.

And I agree with that, but you need the rank to hold units to that.

Even considering that, being cheaper = better.

Not if getting better items makes the game easier.

It's not lenient enough to actually validate abuse. It lets you do a little bit of turn-wasting for supports and the arena, but that's not abuse. As I stated in a previous topic, abuse is relative. What one person views as abuse might not be abuse to another.

Read Mori's (Tangerine) post.

Anyways, stop debating about where or not ranks matter. This is a tier list based on ranks. End of story.

Fuck you, you started it. All I said was to specify.

[Inui]

Rofl, pardon my error. I forgot about the Silver Card since I didn't even care about getting it on my last few playthroughs since I never need cash due to my prepromoted unit spamming.

I did specify in the OP that it's a ranked run immediately after you said to. I can't edit the title. No need to get hostile.

Tangerine's post shows that there is room to take your time, not abuse. The enemy density and power slowing you down is what makes this rank lenient in this game, but I'd still wager that you can't downright abuse anything. 600 turns for the whole game? That allows you to not rush.

Either way, my argument that "don't abuse" leaves way too much room for opinion-based arguments still stands. The Tactics rank is concrete and never changes and sets limits on what you can and can't do. "Don't abuse" allows too much room to make silly arguments.

This is gay. Please remain on topic. A ranked run FE 6 HM tier list.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Inui

[CATS]

CATS, Ellen is getting full offensive bonuses from A Lugh by the time they are both promoted. She's is kinda raping him in offensive areas that aren't Atk Spd.

Do you think Ellen should move to Saul's tier or the other way around?

You'll notice I took that into account. +2/3 Atk and +10/15 crit does not clearly outweigh 5-7 Spd. Without Lugh it would just be an outright and undeniable win for Saul in offense, instead of being at least somewhat arguable.

I'd probably move Saul up. Healers are pretty useful for the Exp rank on S Rank playthroughs.

[uzy5o]

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=17877

Funds: 84,000G or more in physical Gold + (Worth / 2) of all obtained items

Apparently you can sell gems without hurting your funds rank.

[Dat Nick]

Either way, my argument that "don't abuse" leaves way too much room for opinion-based arguments still stands.

not really

LINDA FOR HIGH TIER BECUZ WITH ABUSE SHE TURNED OUT BETTER THAN MERRIC FOR ME (i hate to act like a dick but I'm sure you'd recognize this analogy best)

Mekkah didn't buy that shit when you proposed it. Why would anybody in their right mind buy anything equally ludicrous?

This gay. Please remain on topic. A ranked run FE 6 HM tier list.

I'd just like to make a point that nobody is trying to convert this into an Efficiency Tier list since we have one already, we're asking you to stop being an elitist prick about how ranks are the only thing that should be tiered. I'm willing to understand ranks being tolerated and yet you're saying Efficiency is a silly way to tier the game. They both have their ups and downs and I see no problem with the two lists co-exsisting, why you do, or at least send of the attitude that you DO have a problem with it, is beyond me.

I'll gladly ask a few questions about FE6 ranked and may even participate a bit because I started out "contributing" to the FE6 Tier list on GameFAQs, my problem is your attitude, not your ideals.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Fred Fuchs

[Inui]

You'll notice I took that into account. +2/3 Atk and +10/15 crit does not clearly outweigh 5-7 Spd. Without Lugh it would just be an outright and undeniable win for Saul in offense, instead of being at least somewhat arguable.

I'd probably move Saul up. Healers are pretty useful for the Exp rank on S Rank playthroughs.

Okay, got it.

LINDA FOR HIGH TIER BECUZ WITH ABUSE SHE TURNED OUT BETTER THAN MERRIC FOR ME (i hate to act like a dick but I'm sure you'd recognize this analogy best)

Mekkah didn't buy that shit when you proposed it. Why would anybody in their right mind buy anything equally ludicrous?

I said this? Maric is better. Why would I disagree with this?

I'd just like to make a point that nobody is trying to convert this into an Efficiency Tier list since we have one already, we're asking you to stop being an elitist prick about how ranks are the only thing that should be tiered. I'm willing to understand ranks being tolerated and yet you're saying Efficency is a silly way to tier the game. They both have their ups and downs and I see no problem with the two lists co-exsisting, why you do, or at least send of the attitude that you DO have a problem with it, is beyond me.

Calm down. I'm perfectly willing to debate both. It just so happens that I prefer one way and you prefer another. This thread is about a ranked run. Please stick with that or don't post in it.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Inui