eclipse Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Lancelot finished SD tournament #VII before me with 178 turns (or something like that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 It's kinda sad to see how many drafts weren't finished. Also, please put me as "Soul" in all the FE8 ones. 8[ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 You want to be Soul, be Soul. Fucked if I'm fixing the names in all the drafts to whoever it is now instead of who they were at the time :P If you really must be changed, give me a list of every single draft that you're not Soul in and I'll fix them, but I'm not hunting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaoz Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 So to get back to the free units/broken units etc. Regarding PoR, maybe it should be considered to ban spending any BEXP on Marica and Jill, that way they'd still be good for their flying utility, but not gamebreaking anymore. As for Titania... I dunno, maybe banning and replacing her with Oscar or Boyd and making Shinon or Gatrie free for Ch. 3 and 4, or just make her unusable after Ch. 8, would solve the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) What about prohibiting the use of BEXP in FE9 entirely? That might make for an interesting draft, as then Marcia/Jill have actual training to do. I'm somewhat enamored of making Shinon and Gatrie free for their pre-leaving chapters, too. Edited February 10, 2011 by Integrity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psych Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 What about prohibiting the use of BEXP in FE9 entirely? That might make for an interesting draft, as then Marcia/Jill have actual training to do. I'm somewhat enamored of making Shinon and Gatrie free for their pre-leaving chapters, too. Only thing is then it really hurts units like Tormod, Rolf, Mist, and Rhys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 What about prohibiting the use of BEXP in FE9 entirely? That might make for an interesting draft, as then Marcia/Jill have actual training to do. I'm somewhat enamored of making Shinon and Gatrie free for their pre-leaving chapters, too. That sounds like too much to me. It makes characters like Rolf more useless than they need to be and only solves as many problems as it creates (I believe Interceptor pointed this out once before). I'd sooner suggest an upper limit per chapter, maybe even per unit per chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) Only thing is then it really hurts units like Tormod, Rolf, Mist, and Rhys. Yes, but there are shitty units for drafting in any FE. Amelia isn't any good in FE8 and yet we aren't making special provisions to help her. Well, actually, there've been some trainee training rule motions recently but I digress. EDIT: RFoF: Random idea, what about only giving BEXP to units who haven't promoted yet? I haven't used Jill or Marcia in a draft ever so I don't know exactly when their issues start, so take it lightly. Edited February 10, 2011 by Integrity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 If I strikethrough'd, it meant I was joking. 8[ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 EDIT: RFoF: Random idea, what about only giving BEXP to units who haven't promoted yet? I haven't used Jill or Marcia in a draft ever so I don't know exactly when their issues start, so take it lightly. I haven't used them, either, but I don't think I need to to be able to see how broken they'd be. You've got a good start, but that still doesn't prevent someone from BEXPing Marcia to promotion right in chapter 10 and raping the game with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) I haven't used them, either, but I don't think I need to to be able to see how broken they'd be. You've got a good start, but that still doesn't prevent someone from BEXPing Marcia to promotion right in chapter 10 and raping the game with her. Fair, but even limiting it however you will (two levels a chapter?) would leave Marcia promoting at Chapter 14 or what have you instead of Chapter 10 and we're left with the same problem. Limiting BEXP-per-chapter also still leaves poor Tormod/whatever you want to use out in the cold because they can't get the necessary fast transfusion they sorta need. EDIT: Unless we pull a Naglfar and go with a rule specifically designed only to handicap Marcia/Jill? Edited February 10, 2011 by Integrity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) Fair, but even limiting it however you will (two levels a chapter?) would leave Marcia promoting at Chapter 14 or what have you instead of Chapter 10 and we're left with the same problem. Limiting BEXP-per-chapter also still leaves poor Tormod/whatever you want to use out in the cold because they can't get the necessary fast transfusion they sorta need. That's why I mentioned per unit per chapter. For example, in any given chapter, you can only give Marcia 50 BEXP, but you can give Rolf 200 BEXP, and if you want, up to a max of 500 total distributed experience. Obviously this means you would individual values for each unit and for each chapter. EDIT: Unless we pull a Naglfar and go with a rule specifically designed only to handicap Marcia/Jill? You could also try that. Edited February 10, 2011 by Red Fox of Fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) So you're talking about something more akin to my ninja-edit. My only problem is that seems to be getting a little...well, obtuse. EDIT: And you're ninja-editing that you're talking about something akin to my ninja-edit. pfeh! Maybe classes of units? Like Rhys/Tormod/Rolf/Mist/uh, other people are in Set A with a high BEXP limit, Marcia/Jill/Oscar/etc are in Set B with a low BEXP limit, late-joiners like Elincia and Enanasir are in Set C with no BEXP limit, so forth? Seems a little bit cleaner than Per Unit Per Chapter. Edited February 10, 2011 by Integrity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psych Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 So you're talking about something more akin to my ninja-edit. My only problem is that seems to be getting a little...well, obtuse. EDIT: And you're ninja-editing that you're talking about something akin to my ninja-edit. pfeh! Maybe classes of units? Like Rhys/Tormod/Rolf/Mist/uh, other people are in Set A with a high BEXP limit, Marcia/Jill/Oscar/etc are in Set B with a low BEXP limit, late-joiners like Elincia and Enanasir are in Set C with no BEXP limit, so forth? Seems a little bit cleaner than Per Unit Per Chapter. That's actually a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 EDIT: And you're ninja-editing that you're talking about something akin to my ninja-edit. pfeh! Maybe classes of units? Like Rhys/Tormod/Rolf/Mist/uh, other people are in Set A with a high BEXP limit, Marcia/Jill/Oscar/etc are in Set B with a low BEXP limit, late-joiners like Elincia and Enanasir are in Set C with no BEXP limit, so forth? Seems a little bit cleaner than Per Unit Per Chapter. Yeah, that sounds like a good place to start from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaoz Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I dunno. Apart from Marcia and Jill, BEXP is no problem at all, so it seems kinda unnessecary to limit it for everyone else too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) I dunno. Apart from Marcia and Jill, BEXP is no problem at all, so it seems kinda unnessecary to limit it for everyone else too. Well, except that if we limit BEXP for ONLY Marcia and Jill the paradigm shifts such that there's still a clear-cut winner for drafting, just a different one. I suspect it would probably be Oscar or Boyd. Doing it this way sets a foundation for keeping things a little more balanced in this ridiculous asshole of a game. See: Chapter 8, BEXP Boyd to 20/1, laugh. EDIT: I mean, putting it in the terms of a game I know better, if we handicap Vanessa and only Vanessa, we don't accomplish anything because Franz just pops in as the new clear winner for first pick every time. Edited February 10, 2011 by Integrity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaoz Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) Well, except that if we limit BEXP for ONLY Marcia and Jill the paradigm shifts such that there's still a clear-cut winner for drafting, just a different one. I suspect it would probably be Oscar or Boyd. Doing it this way sets a foundation for keeping things a little more balanced in this ridiculous asshole of a game. See: Chapter 8, BEXP Boyd to 20/1, laugh. Sure, you can BEXP Boyd to that level, but you could also use that BEXP on Oscar, Mia, Ike and the difference wouldn't be as great as they'd all be one rounding pretty much everything. In other words, the best unit in that scenario would be far less stronger than everyone else than in the current ruleset. Don't fix what isn't broken. How would you decide who is in which set anyway? Level at jointime? EDIT: Regarding your edit, there will always be a best character to pick, it's just that the difference between that best character and the second best, third best character etc. You already named two possible ones though and even without BEXP, Marcia and Jill aren't bad thanks to their flying utility. Then there's Tanith as a mid- to lategame flyer (one of two at that) and Reyson, maybe a few others. You sure that the best unit is that much stronger than the rest of the top picks? Edited February 10, 2011 by Kaoz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 Sure, you can BEXP Boyd to that level, but you could also use that BEXP on Oscar, Mia, Ike and the difference wouldn't be as great as they'd all be one rounding pretty much everything. In other words, the best unit in that scenario would be far less stronger than everyone else than in the current ruleset. Don't fix what isn't broken. How would you decide who is in which set anyway? Level at jointime? Fair point on Ike, but it's a scenario I'd be happy to try to avoid entirely. Having GodBoyd in C8 just wasn't fun, even if it was necessary to maintain any semblance of competition, so I'd like to try to avoid it. If I'm not in the majority, the motion won't pass, so I don't feel bad supporting it. Regarding the second, more like jointime for most. Elincia, for example, could be BEXPed to /20 and not really break anything due to her late start. Really, there's a point where things stop mattering - you can BEXP Ranulf to cap, but you already have Kieran/Astrid/Boyd/Marcia/whatever doing all the killing, so there's not much changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaoz Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Fair point on Ike, but it's a scenario I'd be happy to try to avoid entirely. Having GodBoyd in C8 just wasn't fun, even if it was necessary to maintain any semblance of competition, so I'd like to try to avoid it. If I'm not in the majority, the motion won't pass, so I don't feel bad supporting it. Regarding the second, more like jointime for most. Elincia, for example, could be BEXPed to /20 and not really break anything due to her late start. Really, there's a point where things stop mattering - you can BEXP Ranulf to cap, but you already have Kieran/Astrid/Boyd/Marcia/whatever doing all the killing, so there's not much changing. Something that would be a better solution (imo) would be to "adjust" the base level of the characters that join underleveled and ban BEXP otherwise. So for example, Tormod could be BEXP'd to lv 12 or whatever in the chapter 16 base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 Something that would be a better solution (imo) would be to "adjust" the base level of the characters that join underleveled and ban BEXP otherwise. So for example, Tormod could be BEXP'd to lv 12 or whatever in the chapter 16 base. Actually, that's a particularly interesting notion. Others' thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Reading this makes me wonder if reclassing is game breaking or balancing tool in 11... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 How would you decide who is in which set anyway? Level at jointime? Level, jointime, class, etc. All factors taken into account. EDIT:Regarding your edit, there will always be a best character to pick, it's just that the difference between that best character and the second best, third best character etc. You already named two possible ones though and even without BEXP, Marcia and Jill aren't bad thanks to their flying utility. Then there's Tanith as a mid- to lategame flyer (one of two at that) and Reyson, maybe a few others. You sure that the best unit is that much stronger than the rest of the top picks? A clear selection of best characters can't be avoided at all, and it shouldn't be. Part of the fun of a draft tournament is trying to get the best team and winning with it, so making everyone completely even would just be boring imo. However, you can make the gaps between units smaller, and you can make it so that one or two certain characters aren't pretty much auto-win buttons. That is just stupid. Something that would be a better solution (imo) would be to "adjust" the base level of the characters that join underleveled and ban BEXP otherwise. So for example, Tormod could be BEXP'd to lv 12 or whatever in the chapter 16 base. That could also work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaoz Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 A clear selection of best characters can't be avoided at all, and it shouldn't be. Part of the fun of a draft tournament is trying to get the best team and winning with it, so making everyone completely even would just be boring imo. However, you can make the gaps between units smaller, and you can make it so that one or two certain characters aren't pretty much auto-win buttons. That is just stupid. That was the point I was trying to make, maybe I expressed myself poorly. My apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Reading this makes me wonder if reclassing is game breaking or balancing tool in 11... Balancing tool. It means Gordin isn't complete garbage, and it makes recruiting units starting as Knights a Better Idea. I finished SD IX (FE11) in 135 turns. Emerald Jealousy is making good progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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