Skill Vs. Skill thread rounds 1-4

[Vashiane]

Inigo with Ignis seems fitting here

not a bad choice, Rey

Cynthia with Ignis works well too considering her support convo with the father :P

Yes, yes and yes. XD

[The Fush]

I prefer Ignis because on units like Grandmasters and Dark Knights it becomes useful from the point you get it while Luna tends to be better lategame where enemies actually have high defensive stats and won't get mauled by one of your average units

[shadykid]

Cynthia with Ignis works well too considering her support convo with the father :P

on the other hand, this requires marrying Sumia

which is a shame, because Cynthia is awesome

[Melonhead]

wait a sec, how are skills being grouped anyway for this

I'm doing it by similar combat skills with similar proc. rates

(Ignis/Luna, or Astra/Aether)

Or related skills. (basic rallies, Even/Odd rhythm)

Even if they have clear winners I'll probably post them, (Quick/Slow burn) but will add a 2nd one so it isn't too boring.

I've got about 23 possible ones at the moment, and I could probably do more.

[AstraLunaSol]

As long as it's condensed into one thread I don't see why not.

Luna, Nulling Half Def will probably end up dealing more damage than whatever Ignis can offer, especially if you're not in a high mag/str class.

[shadykid]

I'm doing it by similar combat skills with similar proc. rates

(Ignis/Luna, or Astra/Aether)

Or related skills. (basic rallies, Even/Odd rhythm)

Even if they have clear winners I'll probably post them, (Quick/Slow burn) but will add a 2nd one so it isn't too boring.

I've got about 23 possible ones at the moment, and I could probably do more.

skill tournament: march madness style is better

Even/Odd rhythm seems like a fun one

[Vashiane]

skill tournament: march madness style is better

Even/Odd rhythm seems like a fun one

That'll be interesting.

Although I have a feeling how certain debates will go already...

[Redwall]

Odd Rhythm is in principle superior to Even Rhythm if you think about it, though the difference is minuscule: Odd Rhythm is guaranteed to activate at the start of battle, while Even Rhythm needs a turn to catch up. At best, Even Rhythm ties with Odd Rhythm, but if you're clearing a stage in a single turn, then Even Rhythm is useless, while Odd Rhythm has a shot at being useful. The exception would be if you had some stage where the best way of clearing would be to do all the heavy lifting on an even-numbered turn.

I think it would be more interesting to do these things based on comparing against other skills in the class tree: for example, using a Master Seal on Sumia gives you the choice of getting either Rally Mov or Rally Spd, and in a no-grind playthrough, you're realistically only getting one.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Redwall

[Melonhead]

skill tournament: march madness style is better

I was kinda thinking of that, but then I thought some of the weaker skills wouldn't get talked about too much (People won't care about Rally Defense when there is Aggressor, the G-word or Swordfaire floating around)

[shadykid]

I was kinda thinking of that, but then I thought some of the weaker skills wouldn't get talked about too much (People won't care about Rally Defense when there is Aggressor, the G-word or Swordfaire floating around)

Gamble?

and as for Even/Odd Rhythm I was going with manaketes vs taguels, although since manaketes get odd rhythm....

[C.C.]

Because you know what better than sakura petals? Sakura petals on FIRE!

The animation is truly beautiful, yes, but I'll admit to be a sucker for sparkles.

Indeed. It's just an amazing animation. Of course, I'm a big sucker for Freddy's "Pick a God and pray" line and he says that when he uses Luna...

[Scarlet]

Even considering availability, I honestly don't see how Luna even comes close to being as good as Ignis on Normal or Hard. Enemies mostly have crap for defense, so Luna will often add a mere single-digit amount of damage, whereas the units that can have Ignis usually have the stats to back it up and will deal high bonus damage to any enemy, not just to enemies with high Def/Res.

If we're talking Lunatic or Lunatic+, on the other hand, I can definitely see Luna being very useful, if just because more units can learn it - unless you gimp your avatar's magic stat by going GK or something, Ignis will likely still be better damage-wise against anything that isn't a general, but the difference is much less pronounced.

[Robinigo]

Finally! A topic that hasn't been poisoned by galeforce arguements! Alright, I picked Luna due to my own (well, I guess this kind of counts as bias) play style. If you use units with high strength, but low magic (ie. Generals) or vice-versa, Ignis doesn't manage to add any more than fifteen damage. Once you reach late game enemies with super high defense/resistance, Luna seems to slice through them much quicker than Ignis does, with anything beyond a trickster, grandmaster, or dark knight of course.

Plus, bias on the side here, Luna on the mounted units looks kind of BA. Frederick: "pick a god and pray!" *gets into position*... *JOUSTS. Right on through them*

Edited May 29, 2013 by SpikyRtG

[Florete]

Ignis. Luna may be available to more units, but that doesn't mean it performs better. The units who get Ignis can usually use it pretty dang well, and it's equally effective against all enemies. The only enemies Luna will even potentially do more damage to are Generals and Great Knights. I can see Luna being better for harder DLC maps like Future Past and Apotheosis, but even late game in Lunatic most enemies won't have enough Defense for Luna to really be superior to Ignis.

[LunaSaint]

During campaign? Ignis.

During postgame? Luna.

But on normal/hard, it's unlikely one will provide a 2hko when the other won't, so my vote goes to Luna.

There's also the concern that Stahl is pretty much the only character in the campaign that'll really want to go GK for the long term, though.

[shadykid]

Ignis. Luna may be available to more units, but that doesn't mean it performs better. The units who get Ignis can usually use it pretty dang well, and it's equally effective against all enemies. The only enemies Luna will even potentially do more damage to are Generals and Great Knights. I can see Luna being better for harder DLC maps like Future Past and Apotheosis, but even late game in Lunatic most enemies won't have enough Defense for Luna to really be superior to Ignis.

on the other hand, I do like my mixed classes

(also tanking the loleasywave with Sol is fun)

[shadowofchaos]

Inigo with Ignis seems fitting here

not a bad choice, Rey

Screw that name... with a princess bride.

But in all seriousness, Azure (again, screw the localized name) doesn't do well as a mercenary with... that skill (you can see my weeb power level is showing here) because even if my MU had Magic as his asset, his bases for it does not give extra damage as well as if you grinded. Normal Mode first playthrough had him doing... 4 extra damage. That's pathetic. I actually yelled out "SHAME TO FAMIRY".

Which is why I voted for Luna.

Edited May 29, 2013 by shadowofchaos

[Donnel]

If Ignis availability got switched around with Luna, people will prefer Ignis because it is more available?

Usefulness, I think Luna wins.

I specifically have Ignis on my manaketes and avatar because they're exclusive. Plus dragon breathe flame, not shine moonlight.

Luna comes in form of lance too, so all lance user have access to Luna, which I give to my Cordelia.

[Lissa's Husband]

I think that Ignis wins this one, although it depends on what you set your asset and flaw as, which can affect how Morgan/your other child (e.g Owain for me) works with Ignis.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Lissa's Husband

[Aethel]

Got yet to play the latter DLC content (yay, Europe) and Lunatic+ so maybe I'm not a qualified guy to speak about the matter, but I think Luna takes the cake. Not just because of avaliability and higher activation rate (IIRC, not sure at all), but the fact that it does not depend on having good str/mag stats to boost its damage. Ignis worked smoothly on Avatar, Morgan and even Noire, but I prefer Luna's fixed damage overall...

[Folt]

Gotta go with Luna here. Halving defense is pretty neat on higher difficulties, and its awailability is better than Ignis as well.

[euklyd]

I'm seeing a lot of availability-based arguments being made ("without Spotpass/DLC, you can only get a maximum of 3 units with Ignis", etc.), so I'm wondering something...

Rules: (subject to change)

-The skills are based on the gameplay of the skill, and which is better in most situations in which they are both useable by the same character. (Don't factor Stahl into Luna-Ignis arguments)

-Proc. rates ARE factored in, but base it only on the raw numbers, not on a character's skill or luck. (People who use Astra typically have higher skill, but it technically activates as much as Aether)

-Bias can be talked about in the forum, but don't let it influence a decision as much as possible.(Sol looks stupid, and therefore Sol is a stupid skill)

-Don't bring skill pairings into the decision (Luck+4 going well with armsthrift doesn't make armsthrift better)

-Skills are based on Fire Emblem: Awakening situations only. (Sol doesn't do 3x damage)

-No general difficulty or barring/allowing DLC, but stuff like "Lethality is better in Luna+ Streetpass teams" is kinda iffy.

I thought this meant that availability isn't to be factored into decisions?

Anyways...

I'm gonna vote Ignis.

The way I see things, Ignis relies on your unit having high Str/Mag, while Luna requires your opponent to have high Def/Res. So, for higher difficulties Luna is a bit better, because you probably won't have high Str and Mag, but on Normal and Hard Luna does very little.

When I play, though, I'll generally use Luna, because postgame.

[shadykid]

Got yet to play the latter DLC content (yay, Europe) and Lunatic+ so maybe I'm not a qualified guy to speak about the matter, but I think Luna takes the cake. Not just because of avaliability and higher activation rate (IIRC, not sure at all), but the fact that it does not depend on having good str/mag stats to boost its damage. Ignis worked smoothly on Avatar, Morgan and even Noire, but I prefer Luna's fixed damage overall...

funny, later DLC (especially Apotheosis) favors Ignis over Luna whenever possible, unless you're against that 70 defense sniper or something (then again, use magic for that one)

edit: when does this poll end

Edited May 29, 2013 by shadykid

[Florete]

Got yet to play the latter DLC content (yay, Europe) and Lunatic+ so maybe I'm not a qualified guy to speak about the matter, but I think Luna takes the cake. Not just because of avaliability and higher activation rate (IIRC, not sure at all), but the fact that it does not depend on having good str/mag stats to boost its damage. Ignis worked smoothly on Avatar, Morgan and even Noire, but I prefer Luna's fixed damage overall...

How is Luna's damage more fixed than Ignis'? You always know how much extra damage Ignis will deal, but Luna relies on the enemy.

[Thor Odinson]

I think what he means is that

it's fixed damage per each enemy dealt since that enemy has x defense so unless you're doing negative (rounded up to 0) damage you will always do x/2 more damage to that particular enemy

Vs Ignis really depends on how rng likes your stats

Or something I dunno maybe?

For me it was more of that Ignis's usefulness depends on the build of your own MU and if you do +Str -Mag or -Str +Mag (the latter seems to be really popular, especially for a sorcerer build) it's not going to be very good and you're limited to it being any useful in a hybrid class which isn't what everyone wants to do. My standard build is +Str -Res and I prefer to be in a pure physical class to take advantage of the high strength, and my MU's mag was too pathetic for Ignis to matter most of the time. There was only one time where it actually helped and that was when my hand axe broke and had to use a Levin Sword against a general boss, but I don't think it would've came out much differently if I had just handaxe'd the dude in the face. I had about 3 (nearly 4) times more strength as mag at that point. It's just so build/class dependent to really shine. In its optimal setup (hybrid class with decent-to-good stats in both, I will say that, for the class it shows up in, it's good there, even though I never really had much mag to speak of even as a GM), it's better than Luna hands down, but it needs to have a class that has good stats in both. My MU was a GK by endgame (second highest strength cap for female units, and the best strength for one that doesn't have awful movement), and even if she'd miraculously capped mag then, that's 19 mag. Woohoo 9 more damage. Luna may not have as much damage potential against an optimal Ignis setting, but it's more usable in any class you want since it targets whatever defense your preferred mode of attack hits. It doesn't really care if you favor strength more or magic more as long as you're hitting things.

wow that was longer than I intended

tl;dr Ignis is too build-dependent 'cuz not all MUs will have good stats in both and/or stay as a GM or another hybrid class

Edited May 29, 2013 by Thor Odinson