Summer Games Done Quick 2014

[Chiki]

Is it true that Bertin's run was improvised? It wasn't even planned before he did it?

And good luck on your run, Molotov. Show them how it's done.

[Zkirsche]

It was definitely not improvised, Bertin has said that he was focusing on SS practice in the past.

Dunno who that commentator was though but agree he was bad. Think people are being a little overly harsh to Bertin, but he did make a couple of poor mistakes. @RFoF: With the 2RN system, 83% is pretty reliable (94%) and I guess he wanted to try an be quick? There's worse %plays in AGDQ. Werster had a 15% chance of having to completely mercykill his run 2 hours in because he saved inside a wall. HOWEVER, it's stuff like that which makes things more tense and is exactly why I was happy to see FE7 get rejected (no offence to Molotov who I'm sure is a great runner).

Edit: Also my opinion of this AGDQ was pretty low in general so maybe I'm more forgiving of a poor run. Reason.

Edited January 12, 2014 by kirsche

[Vykan_12]

It's confirmed that I have an early slot in bonus stream to show off the Rekka run, if anybody still cares.

Wow, this is great news. Can't wait to watch it!

I can't give an exact time estimate on when the run will happen, but it's safe to assume it'll be on or before 1:30 PM.

Today? You didn't specify.

Can't say I know how they go about choosing games and assigning slots for these GDQ events, but is it possible that it would be tough to get RD a slot after this FE8 attempt when it would need probably about 3:20? While it may be the best for speedrunning, it's also the longest. It might be easier to get the series running with a shorter game first.

Even though it's the longest, it's also the fastest paced (except for games that can skip enemy phases altogether, but eh). It's also the only game that has battle saves to circumvent risk and a BEXP system that guarantees you characters are never RNG screwed, both of which dramatically reduce the odds of a run getting mercy killed. As for its length, consider that Starcraft 2 made it through this year with an estimate of 3:30. Sure, Radiant Dawn isn't as popular as a Final Fantasy game, but it also definitely has an audience. When I was doing sub 2:55 attempts I would consistently draw in 75-100 viewers without a raid on a channel with less than 500 followers at the time. Bertin also once told me that when he streamed Sonic R he would draw in 300 viewers, compared to 800 for Sacred Stones. I've even had a number of people come in and tell me they've never played FE but can still appreciate RD runs because of how fast the menuing is.

Also consider that there are now 3 people who run RD (myself, kirbymastah and gwimpage) and another 3 who are learning the game (heero_fred, rushinassassin, superluigi) and it's clear that this isn't an obscure game that only I speedrun anymore.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Vykan_12

[Toothache]

I also plan to pick up FE6 for realtime speedrunning and I have the cart and setup (Game Boy Player) for it. I'll have to talk with YayMarsha at some point after the marathon, could do with some help adjusting to realtime :)

[Vykan_12]

The only major adjustment to real-time is that you can't afford to RNG burn as much for obvious reasons. As a general rule, you want to avoid RNG burning at all unless you really need to, such as landing a crit on a boss when the map goal is defeat boss.

[Krad]

FE7 is on right now, for anyone who isn't watching.

[dondon151]

The only major adjustment to real-time is that you can't afford to RNG burn as much for obvious reasons. As a general rule, you want to avoid RNG burning at all unless you really need to, such as landing a crit on a boss when the map goal is defeat boss.

unfortunately, FE6 is really heavy with RN burning because pretty much every boss requires a critical hit, and the two units that you really want to level up in a run (roy and shanna) don't have amazing growths. unless toothache is going with the allen route instead of the shanna route - but i'm pretty sure that using shanna is way faster.

[BrightBow]

I do find it surprising to see the game displayed as Feuer Abzeichen 7. Just why would their stream ever translate the title by region?

Edited January 12, 2014 by BrightBow

[dondon151]

molotov just finished FE7 with 1:33:26 RTA. good job!

[Vykan_12]

Congrats to Molotov, that run was absolutely phenomenal. That definitely redeemed Fire Emblem's reputation in the marathon.

Edit: Mentioned it on reddit.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Vykan_12

[Krad]

It was a very entertaining run, wish I had seen more of it but Twitch was being terrible and kept buffering during it.

[Florete]

Argh, just barely missed it. Any idea when it might be up for watching later?

[Krad]

Argh, just barely missed it. Any idea when it might be up for watching later?

It's already up.

In case the link doesn't set the correct time, it starts around the 30 minute mark.

[Chiki]

Not as good as the Sacred Stones run, but still good. Hopefully Bertin will run FE again in the next marathon.

[Zkirsche]

He's banned from AGDQ because of that run so I wouldn't get your hopes up.

Stupid because sonic R was the best.

[Gwimpage]

Congrats to Molotov. The run was very entertaining to watch and fun to follow along with the minor optimizations. :3

What was nice in the stream chat there were a couple people that pointed out they never played a FE before but they liked the fast menu'ing, which made me proud to love FE the way I do (Ignoring the ResidentSleepers at the start of course). I don't want to sound too biased but I wish that run could have represented FE instead of the FE8 run we had several days ago. I donated as much as I could for FE7 and was disappointed the way things turned out.

Here's hoping that even more people see your run and see what FE speedrunning is capable of. :3

Now RD for SGDQ 2014 please

[Freaky Mutant Man]

He's banned from AGDQ because of that run so I wouldn't get your hopes up.

Stupid because sonic R was the best.

Keep in mind that Bertin's post about that was made while drunk and likely upset, and that he simply said that Uyama would "think twice" (corrected for horrific misspellings) before allowing him to run. No other statement has been made on the matter (to my knowledge) and it's likely Uyama told Bertin that while freshly upset himself (though this is admittedly conjecture on my part). I find it unlikely any banning has actually occurred, and if it has, I wouldn't count on it lasting to the next marathon (though I am also admittedly unfamiliar with how Uyama operates behind the scenes).

Anyway, the Blazing Sword was very good, definitely worked as a redemption run of sorts for Sacred Stones. Hopefully enough attention is given to it to factor into future decisions on the series's presence in the marathon.

[Excellen Browning]

I recall Bertin doing one or two others runs in previous GDQs, and them succeeding. I honestly don't see him getting banned.

[Vykan_12]

Keep in mind that Bertin's post about that was made while drunk and likely upset, and that he simply said that Uyama would "think twice" (corrected for horrific misspellings) before allowing him to run. No other statement has been made on the matter (to my knowledge) and it's likely Uyama told Bertin that while freshly upset himself (though this is admittedly conjecture on my part). I find it unlikely any banning has actually occurred, and if it has, I wouldn't count on it lasting to the next marathon (though I am also admittedly unfamiliar with how Uyama operates behind the scenes).

Anyway, the Blazing Sword was very good, definitely worked as a redemption run of sorts for Sacred Stones. Hopefully enough attention is given to it to factor into future decisions on the series's presence in the marathon.

Bertin told me this via skype yesterday:

"He [Mikwuyma] told me he was told by at least 4 people that I was not practicing or I wasn't preparing for it correctly and that he feels uneasy about giving me runs at the marathon and 'don't be surprised if I don't get a run'"

That seems pretty definitive to me. I think the punishment's too harsh, as he should really only be banned from running FE at AGDQ for being so poorly prepared for Sacred Stones.

[Florete]

Yeah, the FE7 run was pretty great, and the people actually knew what they were talking about to the point where the few things I could disagree on weren't actually factually incorrect. Although I didn't even know that the FE5 rescue mechanic involved a greater penalty based on the unit's build, so at least that concept did come from somewhere.

I would also be interested in a no-mercy speedrun of FE7, though, since Molotov mentioned that he specifically avoided allowing characters to die even though it might make things faster.

[XeKr]

Managed to catch the end earlier and trying to look through the vod as I can. From what I've seen, really nice preparation and clean execution. And very fast ofc. Great work to Molotov/YayMarsha ^_^

Basically as some others have alluded to, I think if Bertin had set the estimate higher (like 2:30) and played more conservatively (marathon strats are not necessarily % plays or ss/rta strats), there would be far less controversy in general even if he was stubborn about no RNG manip (still silly, imho. This is a speedrun). It would also help if he was more like Werster in meticulously and continuously communicating his thought process regarding contingencies and how current decisions/RNG affect (sometimes far off) future plans. As it was, bertin both had bad luck and made avoidable mistakes (though understandable given marathon pressure), and the impression just wasn't good even if bertin is an excellent speedrunner in general, which I assume he is given his popularity and other runs. Some of us may have still complained that Vykan or whoever could have done it in like half the time (gotta go fast), but what can you do? >_>

Essentially while RNG may add tension in some cases, the massive resets both wasted time and weren't exciting to rewatch at all. I think avoiding those would have prevented most of the awkward issues, even remaining unoptimized, as seen by an audience who is mostly unaware of potential RNG manip.

Edited January 12, 2014 by XeKr

[BwdYeti]

Great run, YayMarsha. I didn't even know about that holding start during soft reset thing /promptly codes it into FE7x

[YayMarsha]

Thanks everyone. I'm a bit late, but getting back home in time for a three hour nap before work didn't leave much time for a proper response. :P

I think the punishment's too harsh, as he should really only be banned from running FE at AGDQ for being so poorly prepared for Sacred Stones.

I won't pretend to know all the details, but when I spoke to Mike right after Sacred Stones ended, I got the impression that he just meant no Fire Emblem runs from Bertin (for a while?). I think that's a reasonable decision to make considering the circumstances. Axing the guy's suggestions completely from now on would be total overkill, so I think he'll just be more cautious when Bertin makes suggestions.

If you want a more specific quote, Mike told me something along the lines of, "If there's another choice between Fire Emblem games, I'll just give it to you." Worth noting because I think this bodes well for Mike's opinion of Fire Emblem's future in marathons. I'd obviously vouch for Vykan and dondon's abilities if either of them suggest a game for a future marathon, so if (for some odd reason) that obstacle ever comes up, it can easily be dealt with. :)

[Phoenix_Kensai]

I just got around to watching the run myself, and I have to agree, that was pretty impressive. Though I say that as someone who has never seen a Fire Emblem speedrun before (barring Sacred Stones, which didn't go so well, though that was entertaining in its own way).

I might have to go watch some more, particularly speedruns for games that let you skip the enemy phase. I'd like to see just how quick they can be.

[Tables]

Can't say I know how they go about choosing games and assigning slots for these GDQ events, but is it possible that it would be tough to get RD a slot after this FE8 attempt when it would need probably about 3:20? While it may be the best for speedrunning, it's also the longest. It might be easier to get the series running with a shorter game first.

It's a multi step process, people submit games they'd like to run, then Mikuyama and others consider their merits and either put them on the longshortlist or reject them outright. Then later there's a second round of picking games, which is generally to cut down the list of potential games into a list of actual games, often considering things such as variety, length, potential for donation incentives and general entertainment value. So for example that's why you don't have every Zelda game at every marathon (lack of variety and too long), why some more obscure games often get a chance (a mix of variety, length and entertainment value), you get a lot of shorter games and not just long blocks of 4 hour games etc.

Regardless, I hope everybody here will show their support so we can get some more Fire Emblem games in future marathons. (I disagree that 10 is a good choice, by the way. 6 or 9 would be much wiser to suggest, in my opinion.)

Firstly, congrats on the run. It was really entertaining, and I almost thought I might get a mention during it for a moment (when you were talking about the FE11 run on SDA and it's verifiers (speaking of which, who was it sitting on your right (camera right)? Just curious).

Secondly, I definitely agree with Vykan here that FE10 would be a better Marathon FE - probably the best, in fact. FE6 is JPN only and somewhat more obscure. Plus I don't know if anyone even speedruns it or is planning to, although I expect there probably is someone/some people. FE9 is alright, and I think Chiki is working on an FE9 Fixed mode run, which would probably work fine for it, but the animations are so damn slow which is annoying. FE10 has RNG, but many ways to manage it, battle saves to ensure you rarely lose more than ~1 minute to mistakes, abusable BEXP mechanics to mitigate the chance of getting badly screwed to near-negligible levels, and well the run is just generally entertaining. Not to mention, it'd be Vykan (at least, if not a race) running it and he's just so damn good with cursor movement optimisation and menuing (which incidentally, congrats on your menuing as well in your run, it was really good, especially for a marathon).

FE7 and 8 have just been done, and both (plus FE6 for that matter) all run on the same principle of RNG manipulating everything, so I dunno if we'll see one again soon or if one should be done. FE1-5 plus 12 and 6 all have the issues of being JPN only, which massively lowers the number of people who will know the games. FE11 and FE13 are very RNG dependent, and enemy phase skip makes them really boring games to watch speedrun. I think that leaves FE9 or 10 as the best options for the next marathon - and FE10 would be better out of the two. It's main downside - as you identified - is length, but I think Vykan should be able to get consistent sub 3:20 or 3:15 no reset runs down with practice, and that's not overly long.