Customization

[Jedi]

I'd just like some more options for hair, skin colour options, some more faces, maybe facial hair and accessories and armour colour. Don't need sliders or anything that in-depth.

Elder Scrolls; FE: IF!

[DomesticHausCat]

I'd like the option to have you know, a black avatar or something. Come on IS, this is elementary stuff here! Anyways, also being able to change your clothing would be fun. Plus more hair/eyes/whatever, just more options in general like other games out there. In general, more is needed here I think

[Kuru]

I say first and foremost more skin color options would be good. Oh, we can have bronze skinned Khans but no Avatar? Wow, seems kinda lame to me. Now that I've said that, then I'd like to see more face choices, eye choices, nose choices, etc. Just stuff to make your character different. More voices that don't sound too much alike would also be awesome. Get like 10 different people for voices and you got that covered. Hair color is fine the way it is, you already have enough colors, however, some more variety would be nice, like mohawks, rat tails, fades, etc. Then more scars would be nice, or items such as hats, glasses, eye patches, earrings, anything that would allow you to adorn your character's face and head and make him or her stand out. I don't even wanna go into the discussion of an option that would allow the player to choose his or her default class and race...

[omega zero]

I want the option to record custom lines for the avatar, at least for the story mode.

That would be a lot of fun.

[xypher]

Varied voices, even just a couple new skin tones, accessories, and definitely more hair styles. I found it rather frustrating trying to design new Avatars for each playthrough when a majority of the selectable choices were weird or downright silly. I'm looking at you, Build 2 FeMU with the crazy lion's mane hair and eye patch! What were they even thinking?

Selectable personality would be neat too; I don't need 50 million choices, just gimmie a few that stand out against each other and I'll be content. I also dig the suggestion of customizable armour palettes for Kamui. I want my blue magic-caster, dammit!

[Respite&Nepenthe]

I want the option to record custom lines for the avatar, at least for the story mode.

That would be a lot of fun.

I never thought of that! I love that idea!

I can imagine myself repeating critical quotes from Awakening into the mic.

"Pick a god and pray!"

"Do you like darkness?"

"Hahaha, I'm gonna kill you!"

"RAAAAUUUUGHHHHHH!"

"Repent, sinner!"

Okay, I'm done.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Respite&Nepenthe

[The Protagonist]

FE13's number one problem was sacrificing the standards of the genre for freedom in how you played the game. I actually LIKE the idea of an avatar, but not one with infinite reclass options and no class/character impact on their role in the story.

[Buttocksinator]

FE13's number one problem was sacrificing the standards of the genre for freedom in how you played the game. I actually LIKE the idea of an avatar, but not one with infinite reclass options and no class/character impact on their role in the story.

I have to disagree here, part of the fun of playing an RPG is the feeling of power you get as the protagonist. I don't think the avatar needs to be overpowered, but he/she should definitely be the most powerful. I'd also like to point out that if you have leveled up enough to take advantage of all the reclass options you have probably already grinded to the point where the game is broken anyway.

-If the tactician (or something similar) returns i'd like it to be the only dual mag/physical class in the game, and also increase its max stats because i'm quite vain. other dual classes steal my thunder (literally and figuratively).

-I want my avatar to have a personality, i'd love to be able to have a customizeable backstory or some kind of generic personality selection. Even if I can't chose what that personality is it will still be preferable to Robin. I'd rather play as a protagonist whose perspective differs from mine over one who has no personality whatsoever.

-deeper aesthetic customization options.

I'd also like access to some kind of awesome class after post game. Like Robin being able to use the "Grima" class after you have cleared the last level.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Buttocksinator

[Respite&Nepenthe]

Robin HAD his/her own personality and perspective, just a very bland one. It was a step up from silent protagonist.

[Buttocksinator]

Robin HAD his/her own personality and perspective, just a very bland one. It was a step up from silent protagonist.

There is a difference between a character with a bland personality and a character that is bland due to their lack of characterization. For example, Stahl. He's boring because he's written as just some average bro, but he's also funny, socially akward but observant and good at reading people and their feelings. Robin is boring because he never shares anything interesting about himself, he has no hobbies, interests, or ambititions, save "I want to be a great tactician". Yeah, I already knew that. Having no memory is no excuse either, Morgan blows a hole in that argument.

My point is, i'd rather my avatar have a personality that clashes with mine rather than one who has little to no personality at all. I can roleplay as someone other than myself, it's much more difficult to roleplay as a carboard cutout of a guy in a purple swag jacket with a smile drawn on it's face.

[The Protagonist]

I have to disagree here, part of the fun of playing an RPG is the feeling of power you get as the protagonist. I don't think the avatar needs to be overpowered, but he/she should definitely be the most powerful. I'd also like to point out that if you have leveled up enough to take advantage of all the reclass options you have probably already grinded to the point where the game is broken anyway.

-If the tactician (or something similar) returns i'd like it to be the only dual mag/physical class in the game, and also increase its max stats because i'm quite vain. other dual classes steal my thunder (literally and figuratively).

-I want my avatar to have a personality, i'd love to be able to have a customizeable backstory or some kind of generic personality selection. Even if I can't chose what that personality is it will still be preferable to Robin. I'd rather play as a protagonist whose perspective differs from mine over one who has to personality whatsoever.

-deeper aesthetic customization options.

I'd also like access to some kind of awesome class after post game. Like Robin being able to use the "Grima" class after you have cleared the last level.

Robin had TOO much customization and was TOO overpowered. RPG's have limits on characters for a reason. Robin being able to do absolutely anything in the context of FE13 felt ludicrous. Robin's almost-personality was a shipwreck between the silent protagonist and a real character. Robin being strong, even slightly broken, is OK, since RPG protagonists are often so. Yet awakening's freedom with supports and classes robbed most characters of a meaningful identity in order to allow the player to customize everyone.

And Awakening made heavy grinding so easy and rewarding on lower difficulties that it just made for bad game design. Imagine if Skyrim had objects for you to press "E" in front of to boost a skill level. Without a limit.

[Buttocksinator]

Robin had TOO much customization and was TOO overpowered. RPG's have limits on characters for a reason. Robin being able to do absolutely anything in the context of FE13 felt ludicrous. Robin's almost-personality was a shipwreck between the silent protagonist and a real character. Robin being strong, even slightly broken, is OK, since RPG protagonists are often so. Yet awakening's freedom with supports and classes robbed most characters of a meaningful identity in order to allow the player to customize everyone.

And Awakening made heavy grinding so easy and rewarding on lower difficulties that it just made for bad game design. Imagine if Skyrim had objects for you to press "E" in front of to boost a skill level. Without a limit.

The ability to grind units is not bad design, most role playing games allow you to grind your characters for XP. Difficulty settings and reeking boxes exist for a reason, some people enjoy the thrill of steamrolling over the game with overpowered units, others like the satisfaction they get from completing a challenging battle using the limited resources available. If the end result is fun, does the end not justify the means? If the answer is no, then you are what I refer to as an "elitist". It is not bad design to include a completely optional mode or activity in a game if its usefullness is a matter of personal preference.

In regards to your Skyrim example. Stealth kill your own summoned creatures, sit in the middle of a giants camp and let them slap your heavy armor while you heal yourslef with restoration magic, spam iron daggars at forges and then go enchant them, buy and then sell back every item in a shops inventory for speech experience. Grinding is everywhere, none of it required to enjoy or succeed in the game, is that also bad design?

Here is the kicker though, I never in my previous post said anything for or against grinding, what I said was that taking advantage of the avatars wide skill pool pretty much requires it unless you're funneling every xp point into him/her and that I wanted to play as a big-ass earth dragon or something of the like, because breathing spikes is badass.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Buttocksinator

[The Protagonist]

The ability to grind units is not bad design, most role playing games allow you to grind your characters for XP. Difficulty settings and reeking boxes exist for a reason, some people enjoy the thrill of steamrolling over the game with overpowered units, others like the satisfaction they get from completing a challenging battle using the limited resources available. If the end result is fun, does the end not justify the means? If the answer is no, then you are what I refer to as an "elitist". It is not bad design to include a completely optional mode or activity in a game if its usefullness is a matter of personal preference.

In regards to your Skyrim example. Stealth kill your own summoned creatures, sit in the middle of a giants camp and let them slap your heavy armor while you heal yourslef with restoration magic, spam iron daggars at forges and then go enchant them, buy and then sell back every item in a shops inventory for speech experience. Grinding is everywhere, none of it required to enjoy or succeed in the game, is that also bad design?

Here is the kicker though, I never in my previous post said anything for or against grinding, what I said was that taking advantage of the avatars wide skill pool pretty much requires it unless you're funneling every xp point into him/her and that I wanted to play as a big-ass earth dragon or something of the like, because breathing spikes is badass.

People really don't know what elitism means. I feel like every fandom I go to has a cult of people who feel like they have to defend themselves from anyone who disagrees with them on certain topics with that word.

Grinding isn't a problem. Grinding in FE13 is too easy and too rewarding and blows through the difficulty curve in minutes. That's bad game design, not having a good difficulty curve. You're speaking like a relativist.

And since when did your post factor into this?

[Buttocksinator]

People really don't know what elitism means. I feel like every fandom I go to has a cult of people who feel like they have to defend themselves from anyone who disagrees with them on certain topics with that word.

I know exactly what it means, it's a fancy word for pride. When you start accusing a game of being poorly designed for a feature that doesn't affect the way you play a game, you're saying that people who do use said feature are doing something wrong. And when you try tell someone they are having fun wrong, you come across as elitist.

Grinding isn't a problem. Grinding in FE13 is too easy and too rewarding and blows through the difficulty curve in minutes. That's bad game design, not having a good difficulty curve. You're speaking like a relativist.

Grinding is only a problem when it's too easy? What arbitrary rule makes grinding serve your point any more or less based on how easy it is to do? If I want to grind, I can find a way. Whether or not its easy to do is irrelevant.

The "reward" you're talking about is subjective, If i get more out of my gaming experience through grinding, then it's a reward. That's why it's there, for those people. Someone who doesn't like grinding doesn't have to do so, and their experience with the game is not reduced or enhanced in any way, shape, or form. The difficulty curve will obviously change if a player decides to grind his characters, but the player is the one making the decision to grind, not the game. It is not bad design to allow the player to play a game on a difficulty they are comfortable with, that's called accessiblity. Games have difficulty settings for a reason, it's the same reason Awakening introduced the casual mode.

And since when did your post factor into this?

Since you quoted it.

[The Protagonist]

Elitism isn't a word to describe pride.

FE13's grinding affects the way EVERYONE plays it. Heavily.

Calling out game design flaws does not equal insulting people who take advantage of them.

When you tell people you have fun in a way that they feel threatens their own insecure experience of the game, they call you an elitist to settle their self-esteem.

Grinding that takes extremely little time for a large reward is game-breaking, by just about any definition. There's virtually no difference between that and the Skyrim analogue.

Obviously, someone's experience of a game is distinctive to them, but we use terms like "good" and "bad" quite often to refer to things generally held as good or bad, because they're inherently subjective words without specific context.

Choices are not always a good thing. See Skyrim analogue.

Yet I never mentioned anything about you using Robin's skill access and whatever else you ranted about in the end of your comment, yet you pretended I had said something about it. Seriously, where did that even come from?

[Buttocksinator]

Elitism isn't a word to describe pride.

If that's what you think that's what you think, it seems neither of us are going to give ground on this point anytime soon.

FE13's grinding affects the way EVERYONE plays it. Heavily.

How? Give me an example of how the inclusion of grinding in Awakening affects the experience of someone who does not partake in it. Your whole point is based around this assumption that grinding affects everyone playing the game, but you have yet to back that statement up with any reasoning whatsoever.

Calling out game design flaws does not equal insulting people who take advantage of them.

I never used the term "insulting". whether or not this design decision is a flaw or not is a matter for debate, hence this entire argument. Now that you mention it however, telling someone they are exploiting a design flaw when they are in fact simply trying to enjoy a game is quite insulting indeed.

When you tell people you have fun in a way that they feel threatens their own insecure experience of the game, they call you an elitist to settle their self-esteem.

I said elitist because I saw someone calling grinding a design flaw. When someone calls a completely optional technique many people partake in and enjoy a design flaw simply because it makes their game easier, it gives me the impression of someone looking down their nose at someone else. It has nothing to do with my self-esteem. Let's please keep this impersonal, i'm assuming we're both adults here, there is no need to bash me for my opinion.

Grinding that takes extremely little time for a large reward is game-breaking, by just about any definition. There's virtually no difference between that and the Skyrim analogue.

As I have said before multiple times now, grinding is not necessary. You can't break a game by grinding if you don't grind in the first place. You keep saying that the existence of grinding is detrimental to Awakening but guess what? It's entirely possible to complete an entire playthrough without grinding even once! And you know how much that affects my experience of that playthrough? It doesn't. It just means I decided not to grind. If someone has duct taped you to a chair and forced you to grind all your units up to their max stat value then I sincerely apologize, but I highly doubt that's the case.

Obviously, someone's experience of a game is distinctive to them, but we use terms like "good" and "bad" quite often to refer to things generally held as good or bad, because they're inherently subjective words without specific context.

Choices are not always a good thing. See Skyrim analogue.

You keep coming back to "The Skyrim analogue". The Skyrim analogue doesn't support you're argument at all, pressing a button to increase your skills is no different from a cheat code, something that is, as I have stated already, optional. When I was younger my friend and I used to free roam GTA: San Andreas with the cheat codes on. Not because our insecure little minds couldn't handle playing the game without them, but because it was fun. inclusion of the cheat codes was intentional, not a flaw in the games design. The same is true of the grinding in Awakening. This little spiel is little more than rhetoric being used to throw attention off of the fact that you haven't given a single effective counter to any of my points since this argument began.

Yet I never mentioned anything about you using Robin's skill access and whatever else you ranted about in the end of your comment, yet you pretended I had said something about it. Seriously, where did that even come from?

You said "Robin had TOO much customization and was TOO overpowered. RPG's have limits on characters for a reason. Robin being able to do absolutely anything in the context of FE13 felt ludicrous. Robin's almost-personality was a shipwreck between the silent protagonist and a real character. Robin being strong, even slightly broken, is OK, since RPG protagonists are often so. Yet awakening's freedom with supports and classes robbed most characters of a meaningful identity in order to allow the player to customize everyone.

And Awakening made heavy grinding so easy and rewarding on lower difficulties that it just made for bad game design. Imagine if Skyrim had objects for you to press "E" in front of to boost a skill level. Without a limit."

I'm not pretending anything, "Robin being able to do absolutely anything in the context of FE13 felt ludicrous" is clearly referencing skill access. And it's not my use of skill access. What I said was taking advantage of Robins massive class pool within a single playthrough would require grinding, veteran skill or no. If you actually managed to reclass Robin gathering the skills of more than the three base classes than everyone else gets in a single playthrough without grinding I have to wonder how all your other units didn't shrivel up and die from disuse with all the XP flooding into a single character.

I have but one question for you that I posed already at least twice now, if you can give me a suitable answer then I will concede.

How is the inclusion of grinding in Fire Emblem Awakening detrimental to the game as a whole and how does it ruin the experience for people who choose not to partake in it?

And please don't say "I can't buy shit because the risen is blocking the way." I just got off work, I've dealt with enough idiocy today.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Buttocksinator

[The Protagonist]

Please stop misrepresenting my arguments repeatedly before I actually get angry. You don't seem daft, but I'll pretend you're not fucking with me.

Grinding isn't bad. Super-rewarding grinding that demolishes all semblance of difficulty in mere minutes is a problem. I've said this thrice now.

Please go away, peasant. If you would call me elitist, I'd rather you know me as elite.

Edited February 14, 2015 by The Protagonist

[Awakener_]

Grinding isn't bad. Super-rewarding grinding that demolishes all semblance of difficulty in mere minutes is a problem. I've said this thrice now.

Well yeah of course the rewards will need to be good because I paid using real money for these DLCs.

[Buttocksinator]

Please stop misrepresenting my arguments repeatedly before I actually get angry. You don't seem daft, but I'll pretend you're not fucking with me.

Grinding isn't bad. Super-rewarding grinding that demolishes all semblance of difficulty in mere minutes is a problem. I've said this thrice now.

Please go away, peasant. If you would call me elitist, I'd rather you know me as elite.

As far as internet arguments go, I'll take the point at which someone stops trying to defend their point and starts trying to discredit mine with petty insults the closest thing i'll get to an admission of defeat.

I countered every single point you made and then restated (for the fourth? time) a simple question, one that your entire argument (grinding being a design flaw) is based on.

How is the inclusion of grinding in Fire Emblem Awakening detrimental to the game as a whole and how does it ruin the experience for people who choose not to partake in it?

This question is central to your argument and not being able to answer it is lethal to your point. Since you deflected it by calling me a "peasant" instead of actually answering it, I can only assume that, as I suspected, you have no way to give it a proper answer.

I've made my point very clear, i'm done here.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Buttocksinator

[wallhadrian]

Awakening didn't expect the huge sales all over so it was forgivable, but this time I hope they add different skin tones. I want my friends to be able to feel like their MU was them.

What I really really want to see for my main two things is a choosable color palette and customizable personality. Nothing on the voices since I play with Japanese voices and those are pretty different. And yeah, more pretty boy choices. I literally did not feel like re-playing as male Robin because I didn't feel the character was good looking at all no matter what I did.

But really...all I wish for is MU to be able to run around as a pastel-pink assassin with hardcore skill sets. Or a pastel pink anything, really.