Should Casual Return?

[Zerosabers]

Well? Should casual mode return in the new FE or will it completely ruin the game?

I really don't see a reason for it not coming back. It doesn't affect people who actually want to play with perma death and helps newer players get into the series without bashing their skull on a brick wall for a bit.

[feplus]

No.

I expect "Yes" to run away with this poll, so I'm curious how you all would feel about the following modes being included- all optional, all intended to improve accessibility.

1. Skip Mode: if you're struggling with a map, you can press Start three times in rapid succession to skip to the next map; unit levels will increase to account for lost experience.

2. Buff Mode: playable units start with +5 to all base stats.

3. Nerf Mode: enemy units start with -5 to all base stats.

4. Rich Mode: the player has access to unlimited gold.

5. Casual+ Mode: not only will defeated units not stay dead, but they will respawn with full HP in three turns.

If we're so willing to give players options in the name of accessibility, why not make things even more accessible?

[Magical Glace]

So long as it isn't required, I'm fine.

I would rather it not return (so I can force a friend to play with permadeath on) but it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game if I can keep permadeath.

That said, I'm of the camp that thinks playing on casual isn't "real" Fire Emblem soooooo....

No.

I expect "Yes" to run away with this poll, so I'm curious how you all would feel about the following modes being included- all optional, all intended to improve accessibility.

1. Skip Mode: if you're struggling with a map, you can press Start three times in rapid succession to skip to the next map; unit levels will increase to account for lost experience.

2. Buff Mode: playable units start with +5 to all base stats.

3. Nerf Mode: enemy units start with -5 to all base stats.

4. Rich Mode: the player has access to unlimited gold.

5. Casual+ Mode: not only will defeated units not stay dead, but they will respawn with full HP in three turns.

If we're so willing to give players options in the name of accessibility, why not make things even more accessible?

1. Then you aren't actually playing the game, lol. Part of the fun of FE is getting through the maps!

2. In other words, everyone is FE6 Marcus with growth

3. Wolt: HP- 13 Str-0 Skl-0 Spd-0 Def-0 Luck-0 Res-0

Um.

4. Wasn't that kinda in FE13 and crazy broken?

5. Simple enough, but where would they respawn?

Edited February 12, 2015 by Glaceon Mage

[Zerosabers]

No.

I expect "Yes" to run away with this poll, so I'm curious how you all would feel about the following modes being included- all optional, all intended to improve accessibility.

1. Skip Mode: if you're struggling with a map, you can press Start three times in rapid succession to skip to the next map; unit levels will increase to account for lost experience.

2. Buff Mode: playable units start with +5 to all base stats.

3. Nerf Mode: enemy units start with -5 to all base stats.

4. Rich Mode: the player has access to unlimited gold.

5. Casual+ Mode: not only will defeated units not stay dead, but they will respawn with full HP in three turns.

If we're so willing to give players options in the name of accessibility, why not make things even more accessible?

First off, we basically have 4 with the grinding dlc anyways. Two and three are usually called easy mode.

Also, for casual + we need to think about how the enemies feel fighting immortal enemies and give them instant respawn with 3 times hp to make it fair.

Skip mode would also destroy most of the story so that might need some tweaks too.

Edited February 12, 2015 by zerosabers

[Sentacotus]

As long as there is an option to do classic I'm fine with it returning and I think its a great way to either enjoy the story or for the newcomers/Awakening crowd.

[Florete]

I do support casual mode, but I want there to be an incentive to play classic mode aside from the novelty. A different ending or something.

No.

I expect "Yes" to run away with this poll, so I'm curious how you all would feel about the following modes being included- all optional, all intended to improve accessibility.

1. Skip Mode: if you're struggling with a map, you can press Start three times in rapid succession to skip to the next map; unit levels will increase to account for lost experience.

2. Buff Mode: playable units start with +5 to all base stats.

3. Nerf Mode: enemy units start with -5 to all base stats.

4. Rich Mode: the player has access to unlimited gold.

5. Casual+ Mode: not only will defeated units not stay dead, but they will respawn with full HP in three turns.

If we're so willing to give players options in the name of accessibility, why not make things even more accessible?

Or, you know, they could just add one mode that handles accessibility issues instead of bloating the game with pointless extra modes.

[Radiant head]

1. Skip Mode: if you're struggling with a map, you can press Start three times in rapid succession to skip to the next map; unit levels will increase to account for lost experience.

Why would you reward a player with level ups for giving up?

[Gradivus.]

All my casual runs use Classic mode. Legit. I did casual mode once and still didn't kill any units off, and it wasn't for the sake of maintaining CLA gameplay, but simply because it isn't very hard to keep them alive and you want them for the rest of the battle anyways. It does allow slightly more leniency here and there and that's it.

some players view no permadeath as an incentive to play FE:A. Can't those just keep playing Pokémon? Keeping units alive is actually a part of the challenge in FE. as for map saves, the game can just give us one or two freely accessible map save(s) per map like FE:A CAS Mode did infinitely. No, it shouldn't return in my opinion. Only FE players that follow the way FE works are real FE players imo. I don't really understand how one actually enjoys a mode that trivializes an essential part of the game.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Gradivus.

[Draco]

No.

FE is supposed to be a strategy game. If you have a bunch of overpowered units that can just curbstomp everything in sight, there's not much strategy involved.

If your dead units just come back at the end of the map, there's pretty much no reason to be careful at all. Eliminates all strategy.

[BrightBow]

No.

I expect "Yes" to run away with this poll, so I'm curious how you all would feel about the following modes being included- all optional, all intended to improve accessibility.

1. Skip Mode: if you're struggling with a map, you can press Start three times in rapid succession to skip to the next map; unit levels will increase to account for lost experience.

2. Buff Mode: playable units start with +5 to all base stats.

3. Nerf Mode: enemy units start with -5 to all base stats.

4. Rich Mode: the player has access to unlimited gold.

5. Casual+ Mode: not only will defeated units not stay dead, but they will respawn with full HP in three turns.

If we're so willing to give players options in the name of accessibility, why not make things even more accessible?

None of these things should be modes. It's way to trivial for that. It can be implemented much easier.

Like, take for example what might well be the best RTS of all time: WarCraft III.

Start Mode? You input "allyourbasearebelongtous" during a map and you win instantly.

Buff Mode? You input "whosyourdaddy" during a map and all your units are invincible.

Nerf Mode? Well, the game does have a difficulty selector, which is essentially the same thing.

Rich Mode? You input "greedisgood" followed by the amount of gold and wood you like, during a map.

Casual Mode... well, okay this one has no real equivalent. But you could combine "greedisgood" with "warpten" to instantly revive your hero or replace fallen units.

(Btw, some of my favorite cheats are in Baldur's Gate, where you can summon a cow to kill an enemy instantly with no saving throw or summon Drizzt Do'Urden to kill every enemy in sight. There is even a cheat to force anything with stats into your party.)

Now cheats are a bit antique but they can be implemented far better. Like, you could just include some sub menu somewhere to give you what you want, when you want it. But putting all this stuff at the very beginning will just clutter the menu and confuse players.

Of course, in the days of DLC, greedy publishers will simply sell what amounts to cheat codes as DLC like IS and Nintendo did with Awakening, as if giving the player the ability to rewrite a single number in the game's memory is somehow worth extra cash. But if they do still exist, obviously cheats don't actually do any harm by existing. Especially in a singe-player game.

Edited February 12, 2015 by BrightBow

[bookofholsety]

absolutely, yes. i'm all for anything that makes games more accessible to those who don't 1000% speedrun or whatever for a living, and casual mode is a nice, clear and appealing way of doing that. fe12 and fe13 made a hell of a lot of missteps, but casual mode was not one of them

[Gradivus.]

>12 made missteps

Okay, think as you will, but I find FE12 gameplay actually really amazing and I like how challenging it is. The reason why 12 didn't do Casual mode as a misstep is because it's only officially available in Japanese, hence CAS can't work as a lure for new FE players. Experienced FE players largely/always play CLA. It isn't a misstep due to the huge irrelevance. I guess we can't really agree on that, but I've got to point out that CLA mode isn't only for 1000% speedrun players or LTC players or whatever players. As I stated, I personally don't feel incentivized to play CAS because I find it sort of trivializing/boring, but oh well.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Gradivus.

[feplus]

Or, you know, they could just add one mode that handles accessibility issues instead of bloating the game with pointless extra modes.

I agree completely: IS should add one mode that handles accessibility issues (Easy Mode) instead of bloating the game with pointless extra modes (Casual).

I'm genuinely curious where you feel the lines are drawn here. As BrightBow observantly points out, the mock mode ideas I listed are present in (and inspired by) many games, specifically PC titles like Warcraft and Civilization. Would you feel comfortable making those cheat codes instead? or options that can be flicked off and on? If not, why not?

Edited February 12, 2015 by feplus

[Gradivus.]

Cheaters gonna cheat. They're free to, it honestly is still "better" than the DLC money soaking. I'm not fond of cheating at all, but if they insist in doing it to circumvent things like permadeath.. have fun I guess? like, try to have fun and enjoy the challenge. They're probably addicted and want to complete the game easily as if necessary, as opposed to finding strategies to play it.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Gradivus.

[shadowofchaos]

And just as I expected, the elitist opinions which made FE a niche fanbase before Awakening exploded, reappear in this thread.

Do you guys seriously not have any friends that were afraid to try FE and get into it simply because of the elitist "you're not good enough to play this game" mentality prevalent in the fanbase?

And then finally got into it after the addition of casual mode?

You never felt glad that they found the same thing you did fun, without the pressure?

I've found at least 5 posts on this first page that say "You suck at strategy games. Get good scrub, or don't play it."

That's the reason the FE SERIES ALMOST DIED.

Edited February 12, 2015 by shadowofchaos

[Florete]

I agree completely: IS should add one mode that handles accessibility issues (Easy Mode) instead of bloating the game with pointless extra modes (Casual).

I'm genuinely curious where you feel the lines are drawn here. As BrightBow observantly points out, the mock mode ideas I listed are present in (and inspired by) many games, specifically PC titles like Warcraft and Civilization. Would you feel comfortable making those cheat codes instead? or options that can be flicked off and on? If not, why not?

I wouldn't care about cheat codes that aren't immediately noticeable and preferably are never even told to you in game. More options is not inherently good, and I would not want these available immediately.

And don't ask me why, because I personally don't think you actually need it explained.

[Gradivus.]

I got into it very well by playing FE11 as a first game with no knowledge of it whatsoever, I noted that down in some thread in the General FE Forum. I got killed by C6 multiple times. Got killed by C7 reinforcements. Killed literally all PUs off except Nagi and Elice, and wasn't even aware that villages are visitable. All of this on FESD NM which has highly joke-ish enemies. I did keep playing it though and got way better at it. CAS mode being "better" for new players is honestly a rather spoilt thought.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Gradivus.

[shadowofchaos]

I got into it very well by playing FE11 as a first game with no knowledge of it whatsoever, I noted that down in some thread in the General FE Forum. I got killed by C6 multiple times. Got killed by C7 reinforcements. Killed literally all PUs off except Nagi and Elice, and wasn't even aware that villages are visitable. All of this on FESD NM which has highly joke-ish enemies. I did keep playing it though and got way better at it. CAS mode being "better" for new players is honestly a rather spoilt thought.

Well excuse other people for being different than you:

[Vanilluxe]

-

Edited July 15, 2015 by Vanilluxe

[The Geek]

No.

I expect "Yes" to run away with this poll, so I'm curious how you all would feel about the following modes being included- all optional, all intended to improve accessibility.

1. Skip Mode: if you're struggling with a map, you can press Start three times in rapid succession to skip to the next map; unit levels will increase to account for lost experience.

2. Buff Mode: playable units start with +5 to all base stats.

3. Nerf Mode: enemy units start with -5 to all base stats.

4. Rich Mode: the player has access to unlimited gold.

5. Casual+ Mode: not only will defeated units not stay dead, but they will respawn with full HP in three turns.

If we're so willing to give players options in the name of accessibility, why not make things even more accessible?

That's a nice slippery slope you got there. Can I bring my sled?

[Ether]

Yes, it should return. Not being able to complete(or sometimes even play) a game that you are really interested in for various reasons(character design, environment design, music, whatever your reason might be) just because you don't pass some random 'you must be this good to play' line is ludicrous. It's not like adding the option of casual mode detracts from the game, aside from having one more menu to go through in a speedrun, or some shit like that.

[Gradivus.]

I actually very much disagree with the user that said he judges players from the mode they play on; Easy modes are very fine and I tend to play them too when I first play an FE edition. Casual mode is different from that. I think that permadeath is a basic feature of FE, just like uhm, chapters are, to give a very simple example (though not perfectly fitting). I think that those sorts of basic features should be maintained no matter what; the example brought up by feplus, namely Skip Mode, would be similar in eliminating gameplay features. Also, an easy mode should be designed for players that would not be experienced enough for higher difficulties. If easy mode is too difficult to introduce players into gameplay, it can just be due to a badly made easy mode, though I don't recall playing a bad easy mode so far. it's mainly there to be a challenge for newer players and should be not easy but not too hard for those. higher difficulties are to be played by more experienced players in that regard because they won't feel very challenged by easy modes.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Gradivus.

[The Geek]

It's not even always how hard the game actually is, it can just be a psychological thing. I personally put off starting FE for a long time before I eventually decided to play, and it turned out that permadeath wasn't as bad as I'd imagined.

Casual mode should be there for people not willing to immediately jump in. You can start out playing Casual, then realize that you don't really need it and you can progress on to playing Classic.

While I myself never have and probably never will touch Casual, I don't think that I or anyone else has any right to judge other people for playing it.

[Irysa]

remove casual mode

put back in DSFE map saves.

done

I'm with Gradivus on permadeath being like, a fundamental series trait. If you want, have a casual mode where you can just save anywhere like in RD but do not have a mode that removes permadeath.

>12 made missteps

Okay, think as you will, but I find FE12 gameplay actually really amazing and I like how challenging it is.

12 does have some issues, but they're mostly narrative related (I have sperged about this plenty already in other threads) or to do with the base map layout of the original game. Chapter 14 is a particularly bad offender. Also the gaidens are all terrible especially 20x which might be the worst designed chapter in the entire series.

And although growth is good and drill ground exist I honestly don't like how growth dependant the game is in some regards on lunatic, esp lategame. I feel like prior to FE12, the series always had a fundamental baseline of being able to get through things even on the hardest difficulty with the right kind of planning even if stats didn't align due to resources given (you can 0% growths all the games up to 12 on highest difficulty basically) but FE12 H3 basically enforces that you have to train particular types of units, and Marth needs to cap speed (or at least get within range of capping with wings) or you just can't beat the game.

FE12 also started this whole shaky ground thing with DLC boosters or bonus statbooster on second playthrough stuff that was translated into reknown in FE13, which I also very much dislike.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Irysa

[omega zero]

Either easy mode or casual mode is fine with me, personally. They've already developed the code/resources/assets for casual mode, so it may very well be an easy implementation. Intuitively, it shouldn't take dev focus away from new or more traditional FE features.

If the devs/community/fanbase want new-player accessibility, they REALLY need to research what single mechanic is hardest for new players to deal with, either in practice or psychologically (as Geek mentions). Maybe it isn't permadeath. But if it is, then something like Casual-mode seems like a fine solution.

Easy mode would also have to be designed in a way that isn't redundant. If the enemies/bosses are really such push-overs, would it really be all that different from Casual-mode where you can send your units all over the field without any semblance of formation or caution?

P.S. Bring back map saves. They help mitigate RNG-screw on higher difficulties, both in terms of combat and level-ups.

Edited February 13, 2015 by omega zero