[NEW] FE4 Skill Tier List

[Moishe Oofnik]

I've found FE4 ranked runs to be pretty easy, the last time I played FE4 I AAAA ranked without even intending to, with totally stupid pairings like Azel Ayra and Ardan Tiltyu (which I guess really isn't that bad).

Azel!Aideen is atrocious. Sure it gives Lester Pursuit, but he gets no inheritance or good stats other than speed, and Lana could care less about stats in general.

Agreed

Lana could care less about stats but its still the best lana you can get

Edit:Forgot about claudes existence

If you don't pair up Noish with Aira you can still go NoishxFury and pass down Charge onto Fee and Sety who make great use of it too. Or do NoishxBriggid to give Patty and Faval access to Charge/Critical [+Magic Swords for Patty]. You can also do stuff like Noish!Delmud with Hero Sword or something. Seriously, Noish is a great father because he passes down two skills that are good on their own and even better in conjunction with each other. Plus he passes down Swords as well so even if you don't do NoishxAira you should still be able to pass everything that's good about Noish down to gen 2.Thats a fee only pairing and like the best overall pairings are still levin and claud

Either way Charge should probably be ranked high tier in gen 2 [just below Critical and Continue] and about high mid tier in gen 1 [possible above Critical and Continue? I dunno yet].

Edit: Then again AiraxLex is pretty overrated tbh. Elite is overkill on the kids because they can easily afford the elite ring early enough after making short work of the arena and Skasaha not inheriting any swords is pretty bad in a game where a lot of units can pass down swords. Lex should be paired up with Tiltyu.

Overrated is a dumb term why should we take off the elite ring from celice in chapter 6 and in chapter 7 you already got an overwelmingly amount of better units and canidates for the elite ring the swordtwins dont get overwelming amounts of offence too (they arent shanan or anything to warrantee it) they are not mounted so we have noish who gives them slightly better offence and lex that gives better or equal growths at everything

Noish is the 2nd best pairing charge pales compared to the elite and elite ring sheningans dont go to them unless you are playing casual so yea Lex>/Noish really your overrated point is a faster growing slightly worse offence for better defence NoishXAyra about the inheritence problem YOU SAID THEY CAN GET THE ELITE RING BUT HE CANT BUY A STUPID MAGIC SWORD OR GOOD SWORD FROM DELMUD OR HIS SISTER Skasha is generly one of the least important inheritence pairings due to his sister existing and getting enough swords (at best ayra gets the skill ring too if you are really lucky with procing astra so you have alot of sword spaces) (Not to talk about that the iron blade is actually an above average weapon in chapter 6)

On another note LexXTiltyu is lol compared to the 2 other (possibly even 3 if you like valkyre/suck so much) better pairings levin arthur is god tier and azel arthur is a good unit lex tiltyu is just serviceable he is roughly on the same level as amid the sub of being sericeable I guess

I dunno, I never played ranked precisely because I can't be arsed to do stuff like train Dew into promotion range or actually use Patty for anything. Faval will be good with just about any father who gives him decent str or spd so I never cared too much about whether I pair up Briggid with Holyn or Dew or somebody else.

Rank is easy apart from one rank exp it has a ridicolus requirement like 24 level average in both gens

Edited March 9, 2015 by TTPK_Tal

[MartyTheDemonSlayer]

Lex x Tilityu is really strong... if Arthur has a magic ring and promotes by the beginning of chapter 8 (which isn't hard) he can one shot the vast majority of enemies in chapter 8 and 9 with tron. He's obsolete after that, but that's still a quite significant contribution. After that, Tilityu can one shot the vast majority of enemies for the rest of the game with tron and a magic ring. Levin x Tilityu is better, but I'd say Lex x Tilityu is the second best pairing for her. I don't think that Lex x Aira is bad, I just think it's a waste of passing down Elite. Even in a ranked play through they'll still have access to elite for the arena when you do all the elite ring passing shenanigans (which they'll have early access too because they make so much money), so they'll have no trouble leveling. A passed down elite is much better on Leen/Corple, as they actually need help leveling.

[Moishe Oofnik]

Lex x Tilityu is really strong... if Arthur has a magic ring and promotes by the beginning of chapter 8 (which isn't hard) he can one shot the vast majority of enemies in chapter 8 and 9 with tron. He's obsolete after that, but that's still a quite significant contribution. After that, Tilityu can one shot the vast majority of enemies for the rest of the game with tron and a magic ring. Levin x Tilityu is better, but I'd say Lex x Tilityu is the second best pairing for her. I don't think that Lex x Aira is bad, I just think it's a waste of passing down Elite. Even in a ranked play through they'll still have access to elite for the arena when you do all the elite ring passing shenanigans (which they'll have early access too because they make so much money), so they'll have no trouble leveling. A passed down elite is much better on Leen/Corple, as they actually need help leveling.

Teeny?

Also you are relying on 15% mag to proc a magic ring (which isnt even really on him considering you can have better users of it and with tron any unit can be good tinny is really much much worse then arthur in that regard too she promotes to a better class but she isnt mounted while her impressive mag growth compared to arthur(22%) and has better growths overall (not including HP and speed and def because they are really simmilar in that regard) assuming shell see much offence or rock your socks off in the final chapters is false

LexXTiltyu is the 3rd best Tiltyu pairings but her kids are not very good unless paired with a good father (and both the other fathers just make arthur superior to teeny in every way)

Its a pairing that focuses on teeny and already not so good unit who joins benefits alot from pursuit doe

You dont pair sylvia or pair her with claude lex is only really good for corpul because Leen is already praying abooses with blaggi blood corpul also gets utility in valkyre (while not berserk its something)

and lex corpul growths are also really bad 25% skill speed and mag is just awful terrible never should be used IMO like srs because even if sharlow is terribleh after getting you that berserk staff

Edited March 9, 2015 by TTPK_Tal

[MacLovin]

I'm pretty sure that BeowulfxLachesis isn't the BEST pairing for her.

Finn's not bad for Lachesis iirc. I don't recall if it's efficient tho.

How does a ClaudexFury pairing turn out anyways? I'm assumming that Sety is still very useful anyways.

I've done Noish!Aideen with pursuit ring before. Lester turned out kinda funny.

Alec seems to be a total deadbeat when it comes to being a dad tho. Except for maybe Fee, he doesn't pass anything of note. Same with Ardan, but he passes thwomp growths instead iirc.

Azelxanything seems awkward. He's mediocre for Tiltyu's kids, alright for the swordtwins and Lachesis/Fury's/Sylvia's kids, but shit for everything else. (And Fury/Tiltyu have waay better options.)

Does anyone actually use Jamka as a father, except for maybe Aideen's kids? I tried JamkaxFury. Best Idea ever.

Lex!Tiltyu is pretty solid. Most enemies can't take a critical hit from magic attacks early on, and by the time you get promo gains and whatnot, shit dies.

Besides, Lex!Arthur is just plain fun to use. Probably helps the exp rank too, but I don't remember too well.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Howard the Duck

[Moishe Oofnik]

I'm pretty sure that BeowulfxLachesis isn't the BEST pairing for her.

Correct its the best pairing for delmud its kinda meh for nanna azel is the best if you want a great nanna

Finn's not bad for Lachesis iirc. I don't recall if it's efficient tho.

Weaker version of azel pairing I find the +5 speed convo really useless

How does a ClaudexFury pairing turn out anyways? I'm assumming that Sety is still very useful anyways.

Great stats for sety probably your main forfity user and if anyone dies for an odd reason valkyre 2nd best pairing (Fee gets B staves so libro)

I've done Noish!Aideen with pursuit ring before. Lester turned out kinda funny. Thats a horrible terrible pairing Lol

Alec seems to be a total deadbeat when it comes to being a dad tho. Except for maybe Fee, he doesn't pass anything of note. Same with Ardan, but he passes thwomp growths instead iirc.if arden is envy of alecs good looks alecs is envy of dews capabillities of a father awareness isnt really good in FE4 he usually passes meh growths and overlapping pursuit or being inferior 9/10 times noish fee is much much much better

Azelxanything seems awkward. He's mediocre for Tiltyu's kids, alright for the swordtwins and Lachesis/Fury's/Sylvia's kids, but shit for everything else. (And Fury/Tiltyu have waay better options.)

Azel is awful to the sword twins Great for tiltyus Kids (Good bases 50% mag 70% skill 65% speed for arthur is bad) he is the 2nd best IMO lachesis pairing (I dont care for nannas healing utility anyway) Tiltyu only has Levin if you go by average stats Lex is just funny and like requires favortism to work (Id even give that magic ring for claude!sety for silencing all the mages in the game par arvis) Lex!Tiltyu is building on wrath and the fact that you give arthur that magic sword if not he is basicly mag screwed 85% of the time) and the fact that lex doesnt have pursuit is just great)

Does anyone actually use Jamka as a father, except for maybe Aideen's kids? I tried JamkaxFury. Best Idea ever.

Jamka Fury Tank Fee best Fee

Lex!Tiltyu is pretty solid. Most enemies can't take a critical hit from magic attacks early on, and by the time you get promo gains and whatnot, shit dies.

A.Cant Double B.Inferior growths to the other best pairings C.no inheritence

Besides, Lex!Arthur is just plain fun to use. Probably helps the exp rank too, but I don't remember too well.

Arthur levels up solidly with azel and levin as fathers EVERYTHING HELPS EXP ARDEN HELPS EXP ITS NOT NOTABLE AT ALL

Id like to note arthurs growths with his best potencial fathers

Lex: HP 130% STR 35% mag 15% Skill 65% Speed 40% Luck 45% DEF 55% Res 10%

Azel:HP 110% str 15% MAG 50%(He can proc it) Skill 70% Speed 65% Luck 45% Def 25% Res 15%

Levin:HP 130% str 15% Mag 40% SKILL 85% SPD 110% Luck 45% Def 25% Res 15%

Levin is statisticly superior to all of them +Holsety Azel is strong behind with better avoid and Offence then lex+ he has pursuit lex has some really funky growths on him and really bad mag I guess he can wield the Iron sword solidly+0 INHERITENCE NADA

Edited March 9, 2015 by TTPK_Tal

[omglmaowtf]

The only time I've ever seen a promoted Patty is with Lex as her dad. That Def growth, Ambush, & most importantly Elite are needed by Miss ThiefWithSleepSword then any of the other kids.

And also is it just me or does having Azel as father helps Tinny more than her brother?

[Caliban of Sycorax]

Lex gives no one inheritance but he's still the best physical father because of his Neir blood and Elite. He's the best overall father for Tiltyu (Levin!Arthur is superior to all but Lex!Tinny and Lex!Arthur are better overall). Lex isn't NOT getting married unless it's a subs run.

ClaudexFury is a great pairing because Libro!Fee is ridiculous. She's not that great on the offense but I don't think there's that much competition for one of the Power Rings. Claude!Sety is naturally the second best Sety, because he still has Fury's Pursuit, his awesome Speed, and can kill shit with Lightning.

I've always thought Holyn!Swordtwins was their best pairing because of Holyn's superior growths, actual inheritance, and Luna, but I can see why Noish is more favored. I've done most logical pairings for Ayra (Lex, Holyn, Noish, and even Jamka) and all of them have proven superior. You can't fuck over the swordtwins unless you pair her with Azel, Alec, or Claude (and even then, Claude!Swordtwins can pull off some Magic Sword shenanigans).

Overall it's the concensus that Charge is superior in Gen 2 because it will theoretically be seen a lot. Remember that we're looking at optimal availability. It's very likely that at least two of Midir, Beowulf, Jamka, and Noish will be paired, optimally three of them will be. We're looking at 4~6 children inheriting Charge. I'm willing to move Charge even higher for Gen 2 if it's necessary.

[MartyTheDemonSlayer]

@TTPK_Tal

What are these better uses of the magic ring than on Arthur? The only good use for it in chapters 8 and 9 would be on someone like Celice/Oifaye so that they can one round the javelin wyvern knights. His shaky magic growth also does not prevent him from being an absolute monster in chapter 8 and 9. In 0% growths he can one hit ambush wrath kill almost everything in those chapters with tron and a magic ring, so even if he doesn't proc magic once he will be amazing in those chapters. I'm not sure what use of the magic ring would be better than creating such an amazing unit. When Arthur finally runs out of steam, you'll have a promoted Tinny, who will be amazing in the late game. For reference, the barons protecting Freege have 70 HP and 9 resistance, meaning that with a magic ring and tron, Tinny only needs 15 magic to one shot them, and these are some of the beefiest mooks in the game. Tinny may struggle a tiny bit with those because of great shield, but with any other group of enemies she will be ambush one shotting everything except for the strongest of bosses (like Ishtar.) There isn't really anywhere else to give the magic ring, because Arthur is obsolete at this point and Sety probably has Holsety.

This doesn't mean that the children are amazing, because they'll always be secondary to Celice/Aless/Leif/Shanan no matter what you do (except for Levin!Arthur), but I think these potential contributions are far greater than that of Azel!Arthur and Azel!Tinny, since all those will ever amount to are solid mages, not the offensive juggernauts that both children will be at one point. And no, pursuit doesn't matter when you can rely on one hit killing enemies.

Edited March 9, 2015 by MartyTheDemonSlayer

[Moishe Oofnik]

Lex gives no one inheritance but he's still the best physical father because of his Neir blood and Elite. He's the best overall father for Tiltyu (Levin!Arthur is superior to all but Lex!Tinny and Lex!Arthur are better overall). Lex isn't NOT getting married unless it's a subs run.

I still rank azel!arthur higher because he is better but Lex!Tinny is much much better then Azel!Tinny (I think tinny is useless anyway but giving her elite for level ups is great) so yea 2nd best overall father 3rd best arthur father

ClaudexFury is a great pairing because Libro!Fee is ridiculous. She's not that great on the offense but I don't think there's that much competition for one of the Power Rings. Claude!Sety is naturally the second best Sety, because he still has Fury's Pursuit, his awesome Speed, and can kill shit with Lightning.

Claude!Fee is the anti noish Fee This fee is strictly based on support and promotion for the libro staff her defences are great (high res decent def) so she can tank hits id rate claude!fee with the likes of noish!fee

I've always thought Holyn!Swordtwins was their best pairing because of Holyn's superior growths, actual inheritance, and Luna, but I can see why Noish is more favored. I've done most logical pairings for Ayra (Lex, Holyn, Noish, and even Jamka) and all of them have proven superior. You can't fuck over the swordtwins unless you pair her with Azel, Alec, or Claude (and even then, Claude!Swordtwins can pull off some Magic Sword shenanigans).

Noish pushes there attack overboard and gives them charge the fact that luna and astra cant proc togedhor is a huge problem if your not playing binary or inflation fe4 fixes but IMO he is the best father too skashar why lex is best overall

Overall it's the concensus that Charge is superior in Gen 2 because it will theoretically be seen a lot. Remember that we're looking at optimal availability. It's very likely that at least two of Midir, Beowulf, Jamka, and Noish will be paired, optimally three of them will be. We're looking at 4~6 children inheriting Charge. I'm willing to move Charge even higher for Gen 2 if it's necessary.

Midir or Jamke is allmost 100% paired with the sole reason of making lester a solid unit Beowulf is a likely pair with lachesis and noish/lex(not charge) with the swordtwins

@TTPK_Tal

What are these better uses of the magic ring than on Arthur?Azel Delmud Even Light sword celice want that ring to get reliable ohkos if you are talking god offence you are claiming The only good use for it in chapters 8 and 9 would be on someone like Celice/Oifaye so that they can one round the javelin wyvern knights. His shaky magic growth also does not prevent him from being an absolute monster in chapter 8 and 9. In 0% growths he can one hit ambush wrath kill almost everything in those chapters with tron and a magic ring, so even if he doesn't proc magic once he will be amazing in those chapters. I'm not sure what use of the magic ring would be better than creating such an amazing unit. When Arthur finally runs out of steam, you'll have a promoted Tinny, who will be amazing in the late game. For reference, the barons protecting Freege have 70 HP and 9 resistance, meaning that with a magic ring and tron, Tinny only needs 15 magic to one shot them, and these are some of the beefiest mooks in the game. Tinny may struggle a tiny bit with those because of great shield, but with any other group of enemies she will be ambush one shotting everything except for the strongest of bosses (like Ishtar.) There isn't really anywhere else to give the magic ring, because Arthur is obsolete at this point and Sety probably has Holsety.

This doesn't mean that the children are amazing, because they'll always be secondary to Celice/Aless/Leif/Shanan/levin!sety no matter what you do (except for Levin!Arthur), but I think these potential contributions are far greater than that of Azel!Arthur and Azel!Tinny, since all those will ever amount to are solid mages, not the offensive juggernauts that both children will be at one point. And no, pursuit doesn't matter when you can rely on one hit killing enemies.

All you said I can say about Azel!Arthur and Azel!Tinny just to a higher degree I can give Azels Teenys Elthunder from the start so he doesnt have to wait to mid chap 7 to get a decent enough tome give him the magic ring (he has better magic and pursuit) and I have an offensive juggernaught the amazing thing you get from lex is teeny who promotes much earlier and isnt hard to train lex!arthur isnt as notable as azel arthur for reasons I just stated apart from arthurs early promotion (More move is great) but once Azel!Arthur promotes He is better then Lex!Arthur in Everything Lex!Tiltyu kids are just solid early game pairings that fall off later compared to the other 2 good tiltyu pairings who will last at least end of chapter 10 or if its holsety arthur forever

In chapter 6 Azel!arthur and lex!arthur are the same apart that arthur will always one round with elthunder from azel magic ring or not and lex!arthur needs to bank on wind+magic ring to might until mid 7 where he can get elthunder and stuff (He wont see offence to promote at that time) and if you think he will 5 MOVE

Edited March 9, 2015 by TTPK_Tal

[Mekkah]

I feel like arguing one skill over another always results into arguing one unit over the other. If you're going to drag the context of that skill into it rather than judge them in a vacuum, it might as well be a strangely formatted character tier list.

[MartyTheDemonSlayer]

@TTPK_Tal

Lex!Arthur can easily promote by chapter 8, he can clear both arenas because wrath is ridiculous and get a lot of kills at Melgen and Alster, as well as a bit of EXP in chapter 6 by fighting bandits. Lex!Tinny also never falls off, unless you throw her at Ishtar or something. The main difference between killing through pursuit and killing through ambush wrath is that with pursuit, you're at a risk of death because you'll actually get hit, whereas with ambush wrath that risk is nonexistent as long as you can one shot (which a promoted Arthur will for all of chapters 8 and 9, regardless of magic gain.) I'd argue that having a character with a godly mid game and a character with a godly late game is superior to having two units who are just kind of mediocre the whole time.

[momogeek2141]

That really only applies when you are doing EP combat. I'm not arguing against Lex!Tiltyu, but Azel Tilyu can still kill things fairly reliably, and the children are still REALLY good. Although Lex!Arthur with the Brave sword is pretty damn good.

[MartyTheDemonSlayer]

It does only apply to EP combat, but it's great because it allows Lex!Arthur or Lex!Tinny to take on mobs of enemies at low HP without any real chance of death during their respective parts of the game.

This is really kind of irrelevant to the tier list though, even if Lex!Tilityu is her second best pairing it doesn't change the fact that wrath/ambush aren't that great overall, because Levin!Tilityu is the best choice by far.

[Moishe Oofnik]

@TTPK_Tal

Lex!Arthur can easily promote by chapter 8, he can clear both arenas because wrath is ridiculous and get a lot of kills at Melgen and Alster, as well as a bit of EXP in chapter 6 by fighting bandits. Lex!Tinny also never falls off, unless you throw her at Ishtar or something. The main difference between killing through pursuit and killing through ambush wrath is that with pursuit, you're at a risk of death because you'll actually get hit, whereas with ambush wrath that risk is nonexistent as long as you can one shot (which a promoted Arthur will for all of chapters 8 and 9, regardless of magic gain.) I'd argue that having a character with a godly mid game and a character with a godly late game is superior to having two units who are just kind of mediocre the whole time.

You see what you are saying you are banking on being on half health and always OHKOing (which is false in 9 half true in 8 and i was refering how he cant use tron at 7 which you said in your tactics) Azel!Arthur can bank on not being at half health for ultimate death because pursuit grants them doubled all you rsaying that Lex!Arthur is really good unless I get something 1 HP or face any strong enemy what you are basicly saying is He can kill shitty mooks that even patty kills he so good and sorry lex arthur isnt going to be on half health alot when he is likely to have 18 def at 20 (17.7 is average) which can take tons of shit damage from mooks for subpar offence and banking on vantage why should I rely on them to have good offence when I can only gurrentee them being good at half health

what I got is Lex!Arthur is so good that he needs to rely on a magic ring being always on half health and OHKOing every enemy and avoid the threatning ones very good Noish can do that (and noish is nowhere near good in Gen1 he has great father potencial doe) so noish is the 2nd best unit

Lex!Tiltyu is good for teeny it creates the 3rd best arthur but he relies on items and has WIND until mid 7 (then he has tron if you really want to sell it until he gets somewhere with 5 move isnt beneficial its better to give it to him at 8) the wrath vantage combo is as I explained is just mook killing tactics teeny can actually level and at chapter 10 be a meh enough unit to get out of the castle and into backline offence and stuff (The only nonmount unit im slowing down for is shanan and mabye Levin!Sety at this point of the game) lex!arthur he does what azel!arthur does just at half health instead of full and no pursuit

Lex!Arthur does nothing special from what you are saying killing mooks which is so hard(sarcasm) (and I doubt if gen 2 had cross knights everywhere with cyas leadership stars he wont OHKO them like you think)

Lex!Tiltyu EP isnt anything special too Again he wont be close to KOing the strong nits and he will rely on half health which with his great def will take a few enemys

For you to know I wasnt refering to Tiltyus Pairings for both kids I ment to arthur alone cuz I think teeny is useless (Why should I train a unit that isnt beneficial or special at all apart from lousy arena exp rank if anything O_o)

In that case:

Arthur Pairings:

Levin>Azel>Lex>Claude>Fuck else

Teeny:

Lex/>Levin>Azel>Fuck else

Overall Tiltyu Pairs:

Levin>Lex>Azel>Claude/>Fuck Else

[MartyTheDemonSlayer]

If I said that about Tron in Chapter 7, I mis-wrote something, but he can still get promoted by chapter 8. And it's relatively easy to avoid fighting the strongest enemies, becuase you can just check enemy ranges and make sure that Arthur doesn't have to fight Arion and Tinny doesn't have to fight Ishtar. Anyways, for Arthur killing things in chapter 9.

Dragon Knight lv 24 (slim lance): 64 hp, 29 atk, 118 hit, 14 avo, 18 def, 2 res

A promoted Arthur with tron, a magic ring, and no magic procs will one shot this.

Duke Knight lv 20 (silver lance): 60 hp, 38 atk, 106 hit, 2 avo, 14 def, 5 res

The same Arthur will also one shot this.

So no, it's practically everything in Chapter 9 besides a few really tougher bosses.

Armor lv 30 (hero bow): 70 hp, 32 atk, 108 hit, 8 avo, 19 def, 3 res

Armor lv 25 (hero lance): 65 hp, 31 atk, 104 hit, -4 avo, 17 def, 2 res

Baron lv 30 (silver lance): 75 hp, 41 atk, 122 hit, 18 avo, 21 def, 10 res

Fire Mage lv 30 (elfire): 56 hp, 33 atk, 110 hit, 6 avo, 4 def, 14 res

Bow Knight lv 25 (silver bow): 65 hp, 35 atk, 100 hit, 14 avo, 15 def, 5 res

Great Knight lv 25 (silver axe): 65 hp, 41 atk, 98 hit, -8 avo, 17 def, 5 res

Duke Knight lv 25 (silver lance): 65 hp, 39 atk, 108 hit, 4 avo, 15 def, 5 res

Fire Mage lv 25 (meteo): 51 hp, 32 atk, 86 hit, -34 avo, 3 def, 12 res

Mage Knight lv 30 (elfire): 70 hp, 30 atk, 122 hit, 18 avo, 11 def, 13 res

Dark Mage lv 15 (jormung): 55 hp, 34 atk, 114 hit, 0 avo, 8 def, 14 res

Tinny will kill all of these Rotten Ritter easily in one hit with magic ring and Tron (except for maybe the mage knight.) This is the Rotten Ritter, and the same trend holds true for enemies in the final chapter. It's also easy to position her here because of warp. She also will be at an almost negligible chance of death because of ambush and relatively good hit rates/charisma. Definitely better than anything Azel!Arthur or Azel!Tinny would be doing at this point. They definitely can't solo the Rotten Ritter- Alvis and the sleep staff with almost no chance of death.

Edit: Tinny might also have trouble with the baron

Edited March 9, 2015 by MartyTheDemonSlayer

[Yojinbo]

Lex!Arthur is better than Azel!Arthur. Similar battle parameters early game but faster access to a Horse and supremely powerful mid-game. Azel!Arthur is basically Azel 2.0 except that he's not a drag to actually train. It's not a bad pairing but Ambush + Wrath in tandem with Elite is a hugely powerful gimmick that allows Arthur to nearly solo Ch.8 and Ch.9 without even needing a holy weapon.

[Moishe Oofnik]

If I said that about Tron in Chapter 7, I mis-wrote something, but he can still get promoted by chapter 8. And it's relatively easy to avoid fighting the strongest enemies, becuase you can just check enemy ranges and make sure that Arthur doesn't have to fight Arion and Tinny doesn't have to fight Ishtar. Anyways, for Arthur killing things in chapter 9.

Dragon Knight lv 24 (slim lance): 64 hp, 29 atk, 118 hit, 14 avo, 18 def, 2 res

A promoted Arthur with tron, a magic ring, and no magic procs will one shot this.

Duke Knight lv 20 (silver lance): 60 hp, 38 atk, 106 hit, 2 avo, 14 def, 5 res

The same Arthur will also one shot this.

So no, it's practically everything in Chapter 9 besides a few really tougher bosses.

Armor lv 30 (hero bow): 70 hp, 32 atk, 108 hit, 8 avo, 19 def, 3 res

Armor lv 25 (hero lance): 65 hp, 31 atk, 104 hit, -4 avo, 17 def, 2 res

Baron lv 30 (silver lance): 75 hp, 41 atk, 122 hit, 18 avo, 21 def, 10 res

Fire Mage lv 30 (elfire): 56 hp, 33 atk, 110 hit, 6 avo, 4 def, 14 res

Bow Knight lv 25 (silver bow): 65 hp, 35 atk, 100 hit, 14 avo, 15 def, 5 res

Great Knight lv 25 (silver axe): 65 hp, 41 atk, 98 hit, -8 avo, 17 def, 5 res

Duke Knight lv 25 (silver lance): 65 hp, 39 atk, 108 hit, 4 avo, 15 def, 5 res

Fire Mage lv 25 (meteo): 51 hp, 32 atk, 86 hit, -34 avo, 3 def, 12 res

Mage Knight lv 30 (elfire): 70 hp, 30 atk, 122 hit, 18 avo, 11 def, 13 res

Dark Mage lv 15 (jormung): 55 hp, 34 atk, 114 hit, 0 avo, 8 def, 14 res

Tinny will kill all of these Rotten Ritter easily in one hit with magic ring and Tron (except for maybe the mage knight.) This is the Rotten Ritter, and the same trend holds true for enemies in the final chapter. It's also easy to position her here because of warp. She also will be at an almost negligible chance of death because of ambush and relatively good hit rates/charisma. Definitely better than anything Azel!Arthur or Azel!Tinny would be doing at this point. They definitely can't solo the Rotten Ritter- Alvis and the sleep staff with almost no chance of death.

Edit: Tinny might also have trouble with the baron

Your calculations are wrong (she needs 15 mag procs for the Mknight 13 for baron elfiremage/darkmage needs 10 mag procs meteor mage needs 8 mag procs and the rest are shit res) (this procs are elthunder because tron is at arthurs same with magic ring and base 8 mag teeny was used for this calculations)

but after thinking about I came to the conclusion of this

Early Game (Edges out to azel arthur but only slightly) Mid Game (Lex wins because he can promote in midgame easier then azel so he gets more chances) endgame (again azel wins for arthur being more reliable and doubles)

because in Endgame you get god units its basicly

Lex=Azel

Lex>Azel (but only slightly)

Edited March 9, 2015 by TTPK_Tal

[MartyTheDemonSlayer]

Except I never stated that this was a Tinny without any magic procs? I was only using that argument for Arthur because his magic growth is so low. I'm not sure exactly what her base stats would be because I'm too lazy to calculate the passing down of stats, but with ~40 attack power she can wrath one shot everything except for the baron and the mage knight. That's 15 magic tron and a magic ring. Not exactly unreasonable to expect a promoted Tinny to have that.

Edited March 9, 2015 by MartyTheDemonSlayer

[Moishe Oofnik]

Except I never stated that this was a Tinny without any magic procs? I was only using that argument for Arthur because his magic growth is so low. I'm not sure exactly what her base stats would be because I'm too lazy to calculate the passing down of stats, but with ~40 attack power she can one shot everything except for the baron and the mage knight. That's 15 magic tron and a magic ring. Not exactly unreasonable to expect a promoted Tinny to have that.

for the record tinnys mag growth is 22 I was using this calcs to see how many procs she needs to get from base level

she would need to be at 30 with the magic ring and elthunder to kill the mage knight which is not only very unlikely

The tron is at arthur you cant have tron at 2 people right and teeny universaly cant frontline with that move she slows down the team in ranked and effeciency WHICH WAS MY POINT FROM THE 1ST PLACE your magic ring is also at arthurs

you imbued high levels of favortism to teeny to show how inferior she still is and how she cant kill meh mooks in chapter 9 (arthur has move dont even make it I SWITCHED ITEMS FOR STUPID reasons)

if lex is at 30 and tiltyu is at 30 she gets 8 mag base but Tiltyu sucks so bad shell likely start with 6-7

your point is LexXTiltyu kids Need favortism proc dibs on magic ring which other units want to get (I already proved they dont get dibs) and how teeny sucks so much at base she is useless with her low moveness regardless of father

also the fact that pairing TiltyuXLex is Not turn saving they dont have simmilar move like lewyn and tiltyu or azel and they cost a shit ton of turns because of that

Teeny is still awful and terrible lex levin azel her offence is sublime and she is super frail

Her "high mag growth" is 22% 7% higher then Lex!Arthur

Edited March 9, 2015 by TTPK_Tal

[MartyTheDemonSlayer]

Then I should have been more explicit: Tinny would buy Tron after arthur got rid of it, because at that point he'd be terrible. I think one ring and a tome that only two people really have any use for isn't huge amounts of favoritism. Celice being able to one round at 1-2 range is good, but enemies likely won't even target him if there are other units in range, whereas they will target a 1 health Arthur or Tinny, making the investment on Arthur more useful. So the only thing they really need is one magic ring (who else needs Tron?) which does not qualify as huge amounts of favoritism.

Edit: If we're talking turn saving no Tilityu paring is good because there's no real way to get Levin!Arthur or Lex!Arthur on time, and Levin!Arthur probably doesn't save any turns anywhere.

Edit 2: Except for Azel x Tilityu, you could do that on time. Azel x Tilityu best pairing confirmed, it's possible in LTC :O

Edited March 9, 2015 by MartyTheDemonSlayer

[Moishe Oofnik]

Then I should have been more explicit: Tinny would buy Tron after arthur got rid of it, because at that point he'd be terrible. I think one ring and a tome that only two people really have any use for isn't huge amounts of favoritism. Celice being able to one round at 1-2 range is good, but enemies likely won't even target him if there are other units in range, whereas they will target a 1 health Arthur or Tinny, making the investment on Arthur more useful. So the only thing they really need is one magic ring (who else needs Tron?) which does not qualify as huge amounts of favoritism.

Edit: If we're talking turn saving no Tilityu paring is good because there's no real way to get Levin!Arthur or Lex!Arthur on time, and Levin!Arthur probably doesn't save any turns anywhere.

He has roughly the same stats as teeny just better right cuz he is promoted teeny isnt because she HAS NO MOVE her level is roughly ~15 if you are playing Effeciency she isnt doing anything notable

But arthur needs to lose the last arena always always losing a level to be at 1 hp which is just a crappy gimmick as you see

in chapter 9 he is at least at 27 post arena which is close to his max if he promoted at the start of 8 (Roughly the same as teeny level 23 +mag ring) and tron does more damage because of the level advantage

and stopTwo people who are better then her right dont get the magic ring? you are seriously argueing that Teeny competes with Uber Hax gods for something she isnt even good at unless at below Half HP

Arthur has 9 move at chapter 9 by your standards teeny has 5 arthur doesnt suck by virtrue of having good move post promo his stats are purely better and he is much much much more durable and he is worse because you have teeny bias and favortism there is 0 reasons why she should get those items if you give me 2 good reasons I will agree with you

Remember things made for casual runs dont count as I can have a lvl 30 tiltyu at casual I dont care Id use ardan

Edited March 9, 2015 by TTPK_Tal

[MartyTheDemonSlayer]

Magic ring on Levin!Sety is overkill, by lategame Celice/Oifaye probably won't be one rounding at 1-2 range even with the magic ring as well, and Leif is a rescue bot. Also, keep in mind that I'm not saying that Tinny is doing anything in Chapter 9. I am purely talking about her contributions in Chapter 10 and Endgame, by which point she will be promoted, because she can win arenas and destroy wyvern knights with elite. Also it's really easy to put her at HP, just have her get hit a few times or lose in the arena. Also, with the warp staff she has plenty of opportunities to contribute. It costs some turns but not enough for the run to no longer count as "efficiency." If we're purely concerned with turn saving, then Azel!Tilityu is the best pairing (even better than Levin!Tilityu) by default because it's the only one that doesn't cost turns to set up in the first place.

Edited March 9, 2015 by MartyTheDemonSlayer

[Moishe Oofnik]

Magic ring on Levin!Sety is overkill, by lategame Celice/Oifaye probably won't be one rounding at 1-2 range even with the magic ring as well, and Leif is a rescue bot. Also, keep in mind that I'm not saying that Tinny is doing anything in Chapter 9. I am purely talking about her contributions in Chapter 10 and Endgame, by which point she will be promoted, because she can win arenas and destroy wyvern knights with elite. Also it's really easy to put her at HP, just have her get hit a few times or lose in the arena. Also, with the warp staff she has plenty of opportunities to contribute. It costs some turns but not enough for the run to no longer count as "efficiency." If we're purely concerned with turn shaving, then Azel!Tilityu is the best pairing (even better than Levin!Tilityu) by default because it's the only one that doesn't cost turns to set up in the first place.

She's not mounted and therefore terrible. It's really that simple. Endgame for you by lategame the magic ring is going to levin sety period he utilizes it the best really its a joke not giving it to him oifaye slows down and changes to a support role in endgame Leif is a rescue bot with amazing offence Aless is a god shanan is a god in offence celice is a god with the tyrfing and you have 2 solid enough combat (oifaye endgame combat) charisma bots (3 if you got leylea but her offence isnt great because she is a full utility character) so yea Tiltyu is not getting anything in endgame because HALF THE ENDGAME UNITS YOUR GONNA USE ARE GODS you really persume you are going to slow down for a 6 move healbot when you got things like nanna to heal you

even in the backlines in the last 2 chapters thats irelevant she has no sacred weapon she has no brave weapon she has no other utility to help her libro can go on sety the better 6 move mage

Edited March 9, 2015 by TTPK_Tal

[MartyTheDemonSlayer]

With critical, Holsety, and continue a magic ring is kind of superfluous. And I never said that Tinny was anywhere near as good as those units, merely that she could contribute. Anyways, I'll reference my 0% Growths playthrough. The lowest turn count possible of Chapter 10 is 8 turns with growths. I lost one turn on Miletos because of lacking growths, and one turn on Chalphy because I had to warp Shanan over. If I had had him contribute to taking down Ridale's army, I would have lost another turn. This would still be a very fast pace of play, and proves that you can still use infantry in any definitions of effeciency other than absolute LTC. Of course Tinny is worse than Aless, but this argument isn't about Tinny vs Aless, it's about the potential contributions of Azel!Arthur and Azel!Tinny vs Lex's children. So stay focused on that, not Tinny vs Aless, Leif, and Celice.

Edited March 9, 2015 by MartyTheDemonSlayer

[Moishe Oofnik]

With critical, Holsety, and continue a magic ring is kind of superfluous. And I never said that Tinny was anywhere near as good as those units, merely that she could contribute. Anyways, I'll reference my 0% Growths playthrough. The lowest turn count possible of Chapter 10 is 8 turns with growths. I lost one turn on Miletos because of lacking growths, and one turn on Chalphy because I had to warp Shanan over. If I had had him contribute to taking down Ridale's army, I would have lost another turn. This would still be a very fast pace of play, and proves that you can still use infantry in any definitions of effeciency other than absolute LTC. Of course Tinny is worse than Aless, but this argument isn't about Tinny vs Aless, it's about the potential contributions of Azel!Arthur and Azel!Tinny vs Lex's children. So stay focused on that, not Tinny vs Aless, Leif, and Celice.

she cant really she cant keep up with any unit its just slowing you down and notice what you warped there right god units that have good offence warp teeny there she wont be so great

Mounted units rely on rescue you are even saying it yourself only 1 unmounted unit can keep up to them with rescue and the dancer with the leg ring

Sety doesnt get the magic ring for that Lol he is the ultimate staff bot with libro and the best one at using silence (he is the god of forfity when he is claude sety) I already said what I have to say about The Tiltyu kids Teeny is a useless shit hole of a unit Azel!Arthur is better LTC more reliable early game and more reliable endgame in any manner that 1 hp arena thing start to actually hurt them with high amounts of magic units that tank there hits solidly and then fucking them in there arses if the dont get there charisma bots near (which teeny wont she cant keep up) and even then the more offence the better

Shanan is the best foot unit better then Levin!Sety by virtrue too so dont compare Teeny to the best foot unit which is uber amazing

Azel!Arthur is reliable because he has great stats compared to them at those points of the game he doesnt rely on the ambush wrath combo that half works now has pursuit to actually not have gimmicky offence

so yea Lex!Tiltyu is better in virtue of having useful midgame and roughly the same aldough a bit worse early game

Have a good day sir I have work

Edited March 9, 2015 by TTPK_Tal