Yet Another Attempt At StreetPass

[Tactless Tactician]

Quick note: those are her stats... As a Great Lord(M). GL(F) has different caps.

Well that's a mildly awkward error. Thank you for pointing that out.

Looks awesome let's go!

***

I didn't look at the classes yet. Depending on the class, we'll give the units a superior weapon to hold as long as they do not engage in combat, with weapons with brave effects sitting in every units inventory.

Progress! Now to continue it:

Lucina:

She cannot access Counter (though Smash 4 would have us think otherwise!), meaning that she has two 'filler' slots instead of one. And as she isn't a Counter-bomber, there seems to be less of a need for her to be locked into a 1-range weapon, leading me to suggest a Dark Flier class with Celica's Gale.

Superior Weapons:

While all physical 'Superior' weapons have identical accuracy to their 'Brave' counterparts, there is a slight disparity as to the increase in Mt between Brave and Superior weapons among differing weapon types.

Swords: While both possess 80 base Hit, a Brave has 9 Mt, while a Superior Edge has 11 Mt.

Lances: While both possess 70 base Hit, a Brave has 10 Mt, while a Superior Lance has 13 Mt.

Axes: While both possess 60 base Hit, a Brave has 12 Mt, while a Superior Axe has 15 Mt.

Bow: While both possess 70 Hit, a Brave has 10 Mt, while a Superior Bow has 13 Mt.

This raises a few points, as I have not had any StreetPasses in recent history, nor am I able to StreetPass myself.

1. What is the prevalence of Mt to Hit for the AI? Will it automatically select a weapon based on probability to hit, likelihood of dealing the greatest damage based on raw stats, or some combination of the two?

2. To be safe, should a Brave weapon be able to outdamage any Superior weapon in a unit's inventory, or would WTA and packing a Brave Weapon for every weapon type a unit can access be sufficient? I.e. for a Hero!Owain equipped with a Superior Axe, would just having a Brave Sword and Brave Axe with 3 Mt and 25 Hit be sufficient, or should the Superior Sword be unforged to increase the likelihood of either Brave Weapon being used?

Acting as faux-breakers while initially equipped, their Mts need to be lower than that of the Brave weapons also in the unit's inventory if a switch is to be made on the AI phase. Also, for units that wield multiple weapon types, we need to take WTA and weapon strength into account.

A Brave Sword has a base Mt of 9, which would be 12 when forged with 3 Mt / 25 Hit. Its total Mt would need to exceed that of a Superior Edge which is 11 at base. One probably ought to just forge 25 Hit onto the Superior Edge. 9 Crit could conceivably be forged, but that would just be a waste of resources.

A Brave Lance has a base Mt of 10, while a Superior Lance has a base Mt of 13. Both have a base accuracy of 70. While I'm uncertain to what extent AI takes accuracy into account before initiating combat, the Brave Lance could have the standard 3 Mt / 25 hit forge, while the Superior Lance could have just 20 Hit forged. Otherwise, we'd have to do a 4 Mt / 20 Hit forge on any Brave Lance, assuming a Superior Lance is equipped.

Filler Skills:

This'll take some time to determine for each unit, but as far as Lucina and Inigo, how about we give Lucina Hit+20 and Luna to both of them?

Also, as far as Inigo!Morgan is concerned would Skill +2 see any use to snag that extra proc point for Lethality, or is the Hit/Avo of Lucky 7 better in this instance?

Meanwhile, I'll be working on refining the classes and skills for the other units.

[Czar_Yoshi]

9 crit won't do you any good, your foes are running around with 45 Lck minimum (50+ with Rally/pairup, even though most units have negative Lck mods).

Keep in mind that leaving weapons unforged will result in Hard automatically giving them a forge (+4/10) and Lunatic(+) giving them a hackforge (+8/20). On units with only one weapon, I make it customary to start them off with both a 3/25 and unforged version, they'll switch to the stronger one if they get one and keep your forge if not.

[Knusperkeks]

Lucina:

She cannot access Counter

Of course it's true. I had this one coming, with all the copy pasting I did.

I suggest a Dark Flier class with Celica's Gale.

Dark Flier has access to lances and tomes, which means ghetto Tomebreaker and Lancebreaker in the forms of Superior Jolt and Superior Lance.

This is a good idea. I'll keep Falcon Knight in the back of my mind.

I have not had any StreetPasses in recent history, nor am I able to StreetPass myself.

Ditto.

1. What is the prevalence of Mt to Hit for the AI? Will it automatically select a weapon based on probability to hit, likelihood of dealing the greatest damage based on raw stats, or some combination of the two?

I'm not sure, but I believe the formula would look something like this:

(A-D)*hit%

Where A is the attackers Atk stat, D is the defenders defense or resistance, and hit% is either displayed or true hit, I'm unsure. It's not that it doesn't matter, but the difference in possible outcomes isn't that great between the two.

The AI will calculate this formula with all possibly usable weapons and pick one.

If I had to make absolutely sure it works, I'd give the superior weapon 1 less mt than it's brave pendant and call it a day. The AI isn't very smart, but it knows basic calculus, which should be more than enough in this case.

The AI ignores all variations of skill% it may have, as can be seen in lunatic+ where the AI sometimes cedes certain kill encounters in favor of doing more theoretical damage if skills weren't active, even if those skills have 100% chance to trigger (e.g. Luna+)

Acting as faux-breakers while initially equipped, their Mts need to be lower than that of the Brave weapons also in the unit's inventory if a switch is to be made on the AI phase. Also, for units that wield multiple weapon types, we need to take WTA and weapon strength into account.

A Brave Sword has a base Mt of 9, which would be 12 when forged with 3 Mt / 25 Hit. Its total Mt would need to exceed that of a Superior Edge which is 11 at base. One probably ought to just forge 25 Hit onto the Superior Edge. 9 Crit could conceivably be forged, but that would just be a waste of resources.

A Brave Lance has a base Mt of 10, while a Superior Lance has a base Mt of 13. Both have a base accuracy of 70. While I'm uncertain to what extent AI takes accuracy into account before initiating combat, the Brave Lance could have the standard 3 Mt / 25 hit forge, while the Superior Lance could have just 20 Hit forged. Otherwise, we'd have to do a 4 Mt / 20 Hit forge on any Brave Lance, assuming a Superior Lance is equipped.

In this case, act as if the superior weapon does always have WTA and the Brave always has WTD, make sure the Brave has 1 mt more in all cases and that should do it.

On that note, I've never seen a Lethality miss. Does that mean that all the superior weapon needs is to hit to enable Lethality rolls?

Filler Skills:

This'll take some time to determine for each unit, but as far as Lucina and Inigo, how about we give Lucina Hit+20 and Luna to both of them?

Also, as far as Inigo!Morgan is concerned would Skill +2 see any use to snag that extra proc point for Lethality, or is the Hit/Avo of Lucky 7 better in this instance?

Meanwhile, I'll be working on refining the classes and skills for the other units.

Lucina: I'd need run numbers on Astra vs. Luna with RFK active, thankfully I have something useful in my sig. Astra takes the expected damage, divides it by 2 and applies that number five times. Hit+20 for sure though.

Morgan: I believe 20 hit/avoid is better than 1% Lethality and 3 hit.

Also difficulty needs to be taken into consideration, as Yoshi mentioned.

[Tactless Tactician]

9 crit won't do you any good, your foes are running around with 45 Lck minimum (50+ with Rally/pairup, even though most units have negative Lck mods).

Hence why I said that 9 crit would be a waste:

Superior Weapons:

While all physical 'Superior' weapons have identical accuracy to their 'Brave' counterparts, there is a slight disparity as to the increase in Mt between Brave and Superior weapons among differing weapon types.

Swords: While both possess 80 base Hit, a Brave has 9 Mt, while a Superior Edge has 11 Mt.

Lances: While both possess 70 base Hit, a Brave has 10 Mt, while a Superior Lance has 13 Mt.

Axes: While both possess 60 base Hit, a Brave has 12 Mt, while a Superior Axe has 15 Mt.

Bow: While both possess 70 Hit, a Brave has 10 Mt, while a Superior Bow has 13 Mt.

Acting as faux-breakers while initially equipped, their Mts need to be lower than that of the Brave weapons also in the unit's inventory if a switch is to be made on the AI phase. Also, for units that wield multiple weapon types, we need to take WTA and weapon strength into account.

A Brave Sword has a base Mt of 9, which would be 12 when forged with 3 Mt / 25 Hit. Its total Mt would need to exceed that of a Superior Edge which is 11 at base. One probably ought to just forge 25 Hit onto the Superior Edge. 9 Crit could conceivably be forged, but that would just be a waste of resources.

Keep in mind that leaving weapons unforged will result in Hard automatically giving them a forge (+4/10) and Lunatic(+) giving them a hackforge (+8/20). On units with only one weapon, I make it customary to start them off with both a 3/25 and unforged version, they'll switch to the stronger one if they get one and keep your forge if not.

Ah. Thanks for elaborating on the hackforges. With this in mind, a unit capable of wielding two weapon types could conceivably equip a 'Superior' weapon while also having a forged Brave and unforged Brave of each type in their inventory.

I'm not sure, but I believe the formula would look something like this:

(A-D)*hit%

Where A is the attackers Atk stat, D is the defenders defense or resistance, and hit% is either displayed or true hit, I'm unsure. It's not that it doesn't matter, but the difference in possible outcomes isn't that great between the two.

The AI will calculate this formula with all possibly usable weapons and pick one.

If I had to make absolutely sure it works, I'd give the superior weapon 1 less mt than it's brave pendant and call it a day. The AI isn't very smart, but it knows basic calculus, which should be more than enough in this case.

The AI ignores all variations of skill% it may have, as can be seen in lunatic+ where the AI sometimes cedes certain kill encounters in favor of doing more theoretical damage if skills weren't active, even if those skills have 100% chance to trigger (e.g. Luna+)

Alright, but citing the values for 'Brave' vs 'Superior' weapons that I requoted earlier in this post:

All physical Brave weapons have exactly 3 less Mt when compared to their Superior counterparts when both are unforged, while their accuracy values are the same.

The one exception to this are Brave Swords which only have 2 less Mt than Superior Edges.

For the 'one less Mt' concept to apply, we'd have to forge +4 Mt / 20 Hit on all physical Brave weapons, aside from Swords (for which we could just use Eirika's Blade anyway) to ensure that they'd outperform their Superior counterparts.

This is why knowing whether the AI prefers damage output vs. accuracy can be critical when going into a more detailed weapons analysis.

But for a 'better safe than sorry' approach, we'd forge 4 Mt / 20 Hit on all non-sword Brave weapons to ensure they'd out-damage their Superior counterparts, and 0 Mt / 15 Hit on the Superior weapons to ensure that their accuracy is also less than that of the Brave weapons.

In this case, act as if the superior weapon does always have WTA and the Brave always has WTD, make sure the Brave has 1 mt more in all cases and that should do it.

On that note, I've never seen a Lethality miss. Does that mean that all the superior weapon needs is to hit to enable Lethality rolls?

I believe I attempted to do so in the above post, but the specificity of the forges is somewhat convoluted.

I haven't witnessed it myself, so I'm unfortunately uncertain. A cursory search of the internet only showed several videos of Lethality being Dual-Guarded.

Looking on other sites such as GameFAQs, posters have stated that the Skill check occurs before the accuracy check does, so it is supposedly possible.

At least according to the discussion here.

Lucina: I'd need run numbers on Astra vs. Luna with RFK active, thankfully I have something useful in my sig. Astra takes the expected damage, divides it by 2 and applies that number five times. Hit+20 for sure though.

Morgan: I believe 20 hit/avoid is better than 1% Lethality and 3 hit.

Also difficulty needs to be taken into consideration, as Yoshi mentioned.

Alright. I'm interested in hearing what your results are.

And I addressed Yoshi's comments earlier in this post.

Two more things:

1. If Nah, or any other 'dragon-class' unit is used in StreetPass, will a Brave Weapon still be superior than a 'Dragonslaying' weapon like the Exalted Falchion or Book of Naga, even with the latter two hitting with effective damage?

2. If Donnel is ever used as a parent, does Underdog utilize a unit's displayed level or internal level? Depending on which it is, a relatively constant +15 Hit/Avo could come in handy.

A combination of Underdog, Quick Burn, and Lucky 7 would have comparable Hit/Ado boosts with the breaker skills (at least for the first turn).

[eclipse]

Two more things:

1. If Nah, or any other 'dragon-class' unit is used in StreetPass, will a Brave Weapon still be superior than a 'Dragonslaying' weapon like the Exalted Falchion or Book of Naga, even with the latter two hitting with effective damage?

2. If Donnel is ever used as a parent, does Underdog utilize a unit's displayed level or internal level? Depending on which it is, a relatively constant +15 Hit/Avo could come in handy.

A combination of Underdog, Quick Burn, and Lucky 7 would have comparable Hit/Ado boosts with the breaker skills (at least for the first turn).

1. Someone gave me a stupid-tanky Nowi, Nah, and Tiki to deal with on Streetpass. Handle this the same way as Grima - a front-row unit with a Brave weapon, and a back-row Lucina with Parallel Falchion. You want four chances to hack away with your effective weapon.

2. I'm pretty sure it's displayed level.

[Knusperkeks]

Alright, but citing the values for 'Brave' vs 'Superior' weapons that I requoted earlier in this post:

All physical Brave weapons have exactly 3 less Mt when compared to their Superior counterparts when both are unforged, while their accuracy values are the same.

The one exception to this are Brave Swords which only have 2 less Mt than Superior Edges.

For the 'one less Mt' concept to apply, we'd have to forge +4 Mt / 20 Hit on all physical Brave weapons, aside from Swords (for which we could just use Eirika's Blade anyway) to ensure that they'd outperform their Superior counterparts.

This is why knowing whether the AI prefers damage output vs. accuracy can be critical when going into a more detailed weapons analysis.

But for a 'better safe than sorry' approach, we'd forge 4 Mt / 20 Hit on all non-sword Brave weapons to ensure they'd out-damage their Superior counterparts, and 0 Mt / 15 Hit on the Superior weapons to ensure that their accuracy is also less than that of the Brave weapons.

I believe I attempted to do so in the above post, but the specificity of the forges is somewhat convoluted.

It's not so easy. Check weapon rank bonuses and weapon triangle influence.

I haven't witnessed it myself, so I'm unfortunately uncertain. A cursory search of the internet only showed several videos of Lethality being Dual-Guarded.

Looking on other sites such as GameFAQs, posters have stated that the Skill check occurs before the accuracy check does, so it is supposedly possible.

At least according to the discussion here.

Then let's believe what they say.

Alright. I'm interested in hearing what your results are.

And I addressed Yoshi's comments earlier in this post.

The numbers will be in one of my next posts.

I merely confirm to Yoshi that I read his post before I posted my own.

Two more things:

1. If Nah, or any other 'dragon-class' unit is used in StreetPass, will a Brave Weapon still be superior than a 'Dragonslaying' weapon like the Exalted Falchion or Book of Naga, even with the latter two hitting with effective damage?

2. If Donnel is ever used as a parent, does Underdog utilize a unit's displayed level or internal level? Depending on which it is, a relatively constant +15 Hit/Avo could come in handy.

A combination of Underdog, Quick Burn, and Lucky 7 would have comparable Hit/Ado boosts with the breaker skills (at least for the first turn).

1.) I'd assume the player would pair-up Chrom and his Exalted Falchion as a support unit with his wife and produce dual strikes through the brave effect on his wife's weapon in the first place, but if only to answer your specific question: It depends on the situation really. Sometimes the Falchion deals more damage, sometimes not. it depends on the attackers hit stat, as well as his skills.

If Lucina with Parallel Falchion or Chrom with Exalted Falchion decide to activate Aether or Astra, everything that is a dragon will turn to mincemeat, since Aether and Astra scale scale really well with the Atk stat.

2.) It's the displayed level for base classes and displayed level+20 for advanced classes. Example:

Lv 1 Nah in base class will activate Underdog against opponents lv 2 or higher.

Lv 20 Nah in base class will activate Underdog against lv 1 or higher promoted enemies, as well as special classes lv 21+.

Lv 1 Nah in promoted class will activate Underdog against lv 2 or higher promoted enemies, as well as special classes lv 22+.

Underdog stops working against special classes when Nah is in a promoted class of herself which is equal or higher than lv 9.

Underdog will never work if Nah is lv 20 in a promoted class.

There are some more cases I could count up but you should get the gist of it by now.

Gonna buy some milk and do the numbers on Astra vs. Luna afterwards. Can you please give me your desired parameters for which I should calculate results? Otherwise I'm going to choose them myself. That being said, please don't hesitate to just copy my document and use it for your own purposes, that's why I put it there for everyone to see in the first place.

[Tactless Tactician]

1. Someone gave me a stupid-tanky Nowi, Nah, and Tiki to deal with on Streetpass. Handle this the same way as Grima - a front-row unit with a Brave weapon, and a back-row Lucina with Parallel Falchion. You want four chances to hack away with your effective weapon.

2. I'm pretty sure it's displayed level.

Thank you. As another tactic with regards to my first point, any supporting unit with comparable magic could wield Book of Naga for a similar effect

It's not so easy. Check weapon rank bonuses and weapon triangle influence.

Your comment about assuming the Brave Weapons to have WTD for the sake of calculations makes more sense now. Thanks.

1.) I'd assume the player would pair-up Chrom and his Exalted Falchion as a support unit with his wife and produce dual strikes through the brave effect on his wife's weapon in the first place, but if only to answer your specific question: It depends on the situation really. Sometimes the Falchion deals more damage, sometimes not. it depends on the attackers hit stat, as well as his skills.

If Lucina with Parallel Falchion or Chrom with Exalted Falchion decide to activate Aether or Astra, everything that is a dragon will turn to mincemeat, since Aether and Astra scale scale really well with the Atk stat.

2.) It's the displayed level for base classes and displayed level+20 for advanced classes. Example:

Lv 1 Nah in base class will activate Underdog against opponents lv 2 or higher.

Lv 20 Nah in base class will activate Underdog against lv 1 or higher promoted enemies, as well as special classes lv 21+.

Lv 1 Nah in promoted class will activate Underdog against lv 2 or higher promoted enemies, as well as special classes lv 22+.

Underdog stops working against special classes when Nah is in a promoted class of herself which is equal or higher than lv 9.

Underdog will never work if Nah is lv 20 in a promoted class.

There are some more cases I could count up but you should get the gist of it by now.

1.) Yes. Thank you for that thorough explanation.

So a dragon unit will be killed just as easily (if not more so) as any other unit especially if a Brave weapon is being used by a lead. So there'd be little perceived benefit to using Manaketes in StreetPass at all. Due to the AI favoring to attack at range, they'd be inefficient Counter users, and due to the Dragonstone(+)'s lack of a Brave effect, they're suboptimal for Lethality as well. Wyvern Lords may still provide some benefit, solely based off their superior mobility though.

2.) Interesting. So could there be some value in possibly running a lv 1 Assassin with an Underdog Bow equipped instead of a Superior Bow?

Also, I'm assuming that the relationship between 'breaker' weapons and breaker skills is comparable to that of most 'proc' weapons like the Sol sword, Luna Lance etc: the breaker effects of the 'Superior' weapons don't stack with the actual breaker skills.

Gonna buy some milk and do the numbers on Astra vs. Luna afterwards. Can you please give me your desired parameters for which I should calculate results? Otherwise I'm going to choose them myself. That being said, please don't hesitate to just copy my document and use it for your own purposes, that's why I put it there for everyone to see in the first place.

Since I'm still figuring a few things out, feel free to choose your own parameters for the calculations.

Thank you for generating this resource. I'll give it a shot as well, and of course report if anything noteworthy is discovered.

[Knusperkeks]

Wyvern Lords may still provide some benefit, solely based off their superior mobility though.

I can't find it right now, but there was an old thread on gamefaqs where TestpilotVGC, Sabata2 and me came up with a Wyvern Lord, Sniper and Mire Sorcerer composition of 10x Avatar. So yes, Wyvern Lord's are great for their brute force attack stat and high mobility, not so much for skill. (Lethality). Here is one of the Wyverns.[spoiler=apparently I made this screenshot on 11/18/2014]

2.) Interesting. So could there be some value in possibly running a lv 1 Assassin with an Underdog Bow equipped instead of a Superior Bow?

Sure, if you want more flat avoid instead of vs bows only.

Since I'm still figuring a few things out, feel free to choose your own parameters for the calculations.

Thank you for generating this resource. I'll give it a shot as well, and of course report if anything noteworthy is discovered.

Sure thing. I chose GL Olivia!Lucina with Lethality, Aether, RFK and Hit+20 as a base. Comparing Luna vs Astra. If you use it, make sure to use v1.1.2, since the earlier one showed some... interesting behavior.

Disclaimer about my spreadsheet: Attacks would in som cases deal negative damage if the enemy's defense stat was higher than the own atk stat and display it as negative damage. This effect was being amplified by Astra to 250%. It also affected Aether/Luna/Ignis damage calculations. I fixed all instances of negative damage calculations I found and told the spreadsheet to assume all negative numbers are to be exchanged for zero. There might be still some bugs I haven't found, so if you do find them, tell me about it.

Olivia!Lucina@Great Lord: str 42, mag 31, skl 45, spd 47, lck 47, def 39, res 39

Brave Lance, 10 Mt, 70 hit, 3/5 forge to 13 mt 95 hit. A rank Lance: 15 mt, 100 hit.

Results: 57 Atk, 100 base hit.

[spoiler=Lethality/Aether/Astra/RFK/Hit20 vs 40 def/spd/lck]

Chance to hit: 131% displayed
Skill ~ expected damage contribution
Lethality ~ 18.06
Aether ~ 13.82
Astra ~ 7.34
Normal ~ 6.10
total average expected damage: 45.33

[spoiler=Lethality/Aether/Luna/RFK/Hit20 vs 40 def/spd/lck]

Chance to hit: 131% displayed
Skill ~ expected damage contribution
Lethality ~ 18.06
Aether ~ 13.82
Luna ~ 10.82
Normal ~ 4.07
total average expected damage: 46.77

[spoiler=Lethality/Aether/Astra/RFK/Hit20 vs 50 def/spd/lck]

Chance to hit: 111% displayed
Skill ~ expected damage contribution
Lethality ~ 18.06
Aether ~ 9.98
Astra ~ 3.02
Normal ~ 2.51
total average expected damage: 33.58

[spoiler=Lethality/Aether/Luna/RFK/Hit20 vs 50 def/spd/lck]

Chance to hit: 111% displayed
Skill ~ expected damage contribution
Lethality ~ 18.62
Aether ~ 9.98
Luna ~ 9.36
Normal ~ 1.67
total average expected damage: 39.07

[spoiler=Lethality/Aether/Astra/RFK/Hit20 vs 60 def/spd/lck]

Chance to hit: 91% displayed
Skill ~ expected damage contribution
Lethality ~ 18.06
Aether ~ 6.91
Astra ~ 0.00
Normal ~ 0.00
total average expected damage: 24.97

[spoiler=Lethality/Aether/Luna/RFK/Hit20 vs 60 def/spd/lck]

Chance to hit: 91% displayed
Skill ~ expected damage contribution
Lethality ~ 18.06
Aether ~ 6.91
Luna ~ 7.89
Normal ~ 0.00
total average expected damage: 32.87

It might not be on topic, but I wanted to take this opportunity to say that there might be certain situations in which having Astra and Luna and/or Ignis might be worse than just having Luna or Ignis, because Astra takes priority over the to of them, yet might result in less damage than either of them.

The reason for that happening is the same reason why my spreadsheet was bugged: Nobody in their right mind attacks an enemy when one can't deal a single point of damage to him (except for Lethality/Aether/Luna/Ignis/Vengeance or other curiosities).

Edit: done correcting typo's.

Edit2: Calcs should be correct now.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Knusperkeks

[Tactless Tactician]

Having reviewed your calculations (thanks for providing those by the way), this would confirm that Luna appears to be the superior proc for proc-stacking, especially with the assumption that the player units' defenses will be more likely than not have def/res pushing 40+ even without LB.

So moving on to finalizing the units:

+Skill/-Strength FeMU

Lucky7, Quick Burn, Lethality, <filler>, Miracle

Since she can't Counter-bomb, she doesn't necessarily need a high-movement class, leading to her skill stat as the focus of emphasis for Lethality procs.

Recommended options would be either an Assassin with 51 skill and 46 speed, or a Hero with 49 skill and 42 speed, but superior def/res.

Of note is that both have the same base Lethality rate at 12%, however an Assassin with Skill+2 would be able to achieve 13% Lethality.

Or perhaps Anathema might suffice for Avoid-stacking.

Olivia!Lucina

RFK, Lethality, Aether, <filler>, <filler>

I think it's say that her two filler skills should be Hit+20 and Luna. As far as her class goes, I'd say it's a toss-up for Dark Flier (only 1-2 Brave), Falcon Knight (+4 skill and +2 speed over DF. Has 12% base Lethality), or Paladin (lower skill and speed, but no flying weakness).

Chrom!Inigo

Counter, RFK, Lethality, Hit+20, <filler>

Inigo should get Luna as well. He's probably best classed as a Paladin for movement (but only 10% base Lethality), or a Hero/Assasin for skill and speed and 12% Lethality. Also, a potential option that hasn't been mentioned yet would be Bow Knight. Despite being sword-locked for the purposes of a Counter-bomb, at 46 skill and 44 speed, BK!Inigo nets three points of skill and one point of speed (and an addition 1% for Lethality) over his Paladin class.

Inigo!Morgan

Counter, RFK, Lethality, Lucky7, Miracle

Basically Inigo 2.0 with the addition of Miracle. Similar suitable classes, though both Hero and Assassin have 13% base Lethality, over the Paladin's 11% and Bow Knight's 12%.

Kellam!Laurent,

Counter, Tomebreaker, Lethality, Lucky7, Miracle

It would seem that Assassin would be best, as his two mounted classes (Dark Knight and Great Knight) suffer stat-wise (at least with respect to skill and speed)

Henry!Cynthia:

Counter, Tomebreaker, Lethality, Lucky7, Miracle

Has at least one more viable option besides Assassin, in the form of Falcon Knight. But despite its higher movement, it has two fewer speed, three fewer skill, and 1% lesser Lethality.

Libra!Yarne,

Counter, Quick Burn, Lethality, Lucky7, Miracle

While Assassin would seem to be Yarne's exclusive viable option with 52 skill (13% Lethality) and 50 speed, Taguel might be useful, at least from a weapon-variety perspective. When taking the boosts of a Beaststone+ into account, Taguel!Yarne would possess 52 skill and 52 speed, as well as equivalent strength to his Assassin class. He also receives a six point boost to luck, meaning that he'd hit 50% Miracle as Taguel compared to 44% Miracle as an Assassin. The lack of a Brave effect may prove to be a notable deterrent however.

Gaius!Brady,

Counter, Lucky7, Lethality, <filler>, Miracle,

Again, Brady's best options seem to be Paladin for movement, or Assassin for speed, skill, and 13% Lethality. Hero as usual comes in at a close second with respect to the Assassin's key stats.

As far as his final skill is concerned, Brady could profit from another Hit/Avoid skill like Axebreaker or Avoid+10, Luna for proc-stacking, or Acrobat for movement.

Vaike!Owain

Counter, HP+5 or Axebreaker, Lethality, Lucky7, Miracle

Lon'qu/Vaike!Gerome

Counter, HP+5 or Swordbreaker or Lancebreaker, Lethality, Lucky7, Miracle

With regards to these last two, it seems the choice is between an additional 50 Hit/Avoid against a single weapon type, or HP+5 for potential Miracle/Counter syngergy.

[Knusperkeks]

I was happily typing away at possible classes until the following point made it's return into my mind:

Going towards the team building, I'd try to homogenize everyone's effective movement as much as possible. This means:

Fast:

8 movement flier

Medium:

8 movement ground

6 movement ground + boots

6 movement ground + acrobat

Slow:

6 movement.

Anyone who can't get acrobat should get either boots or a mounted class to compensate for the sake of integrity in regards to the formation (if we can even call it that, lol)

What do you guys think?

[Vascela]

If Acrobat is worth considering (which I think it is), what about Mov +1? Thief line is already questioned as one of the top class choices.

[Knusperkeks]

If Acrobat is worth considering (which I think it is), what about Mov +1? Thief line is already questioned as one of the top class choices.

If there is only one wood tile, it's equal to acrobat, otherwise the latter is superior. Of course on open ground, acrobat won't do anything. But most maps on awakening have some kind of hindrance somewhere, and the player might try to use it to his advantage and gets caught off guard by either of them.

I think move+1 is legit yes.

[Tactless Tactician]

I was happily typing away at possible classes until the following point made it's return into my mind:

Going towards the team building, I'd try to homogenize everyone's effective movement as much as possible. This means:

Fast:

8 movement flier

Medium:

8 movement ground

6 movement ground + boots

6 movement ground + acrobat

Slow:

6 movement.

Anyone who can't get acrobat should get either boots or a mounted class to compensate for the sake of integrity in regards to the formation (if we can even call it that, lol)

What do you guys think?

Seems reasonable for the most part, although we have to weigh the loss in skill against the corresponding gain in movement. For example, switching from Assassin to Paladin in many cases will lead to a drop of two to three percentage points for Lethality procs. A decent compromise could be running Bow Knight or Falcon Knight as the mounted classes of choice due to their higher skill caps when compared to Paladins. Falcon Knight is slightly superior in this regard due to higher skill, and being a flyer (though this comes with bow and wind weaknesses). The only problem would mean that only one weapon type would be equipped for either BK or FK, lessening the possibility of WTA.

Also, I understand that fort and forest terrain are reduced to 1 movement per tile with Acrobat equipped. But from what I recall, while it affects mountain and water tiles, it doesn't enable movement on 'peak' or 'sea' tiles. That's where the superiority of flying classes comes into play.

And Move+1 does have some merit. But a cursory glance of the AI's skills, or highlighting their attack range would remove the majority of any surprise factor. Still, it does have value in allowing units with lesser movement to keep up, or possibly limit a player's options.

[Knusperkeks]

I believe that gaining control of the center of the map is the most important aspect in the game. That's one of the reasons why I have avoid Severa in my challenge run - she can easily take care of any number of soldiers in the fourth phase of secret path apotheosis, but I digress.

I also believe it's a waste of time to analyze every single map in this game and try to tailor our team towards fitting as many of them as possible, since there are too many random factors involved. For example the starting positions of our team on the enemy player's map.

Using flying classes and having one more skill slot (which would otherwise be used for acrobat) for something else is the best I think, but not everyone can do that obviously.

The reason I didn't include movement+1 in #36 is that any unit which has acrobat automatically has movement+1 as well.

Weakness to flying weaponry is one of my last concerns, since I consider any unit which gets attacked by the player (no matter in which way) instantly dead.

[Tactless Tactician]

I believe that gaining control of the center of the map is the most important aspect in the game. That's one of the reasons why I have avoid Severa in my challenge run - she can easily take care of any number of soldiers in the fourth phase of secret path apotheosis, but I digress.

I also believe it's a waste of time to analyze every single map in this game and try to tailor our team towards fitting as many of them as possible, since there are too many random factors involved. For example the starting positions of our team on the enemy player's map.

Using flying classes and having one more skill slot (which would otherwise be used for acrobat) for something else is the best I think, but not everyone can do that obviously.

The reason I didn't include movement+1 in #36 is that any unit which has acrobat automatically has movement+1 as well.

Weakness to flying weaponry is one of my last concerns, since I consider any unit which gets attacked by the player (no matter in which way) instantly dead.

Alright. It makes sense that a flying weakness means little in a 'metagame' where a unit is likely to die upon combat (maybe barring Miracle).

With that under consideration, Falcon Knight is the optimal class for any Counter-bombing female units who can access it... Which is apparently reduced to just FeMU and Cynthia (and maybe Lucina).

In my opinion, Lucina's better off as a Celica's Gale-toting Dark Flier, but that's still open for consideration.

As far as the rest of the units are concerned, as high movement reigns supreme:

Inigo has slightly higher stats as a Bow Knight, though Paladin offers potential for WTA.

Bow Knight: 42 str/ 31 mag/ 46 skll/ 44 spd/ 47 luk/ 34 def/ 29 res

Paladin: 44 str/ 31 mag/ 43 skll/ 43 spd/ 47 luk/ 41 def/ 41 res

With regards to Inigo!Morgan, his best high-movement classes have the following stats.

Bow Knight: 41 str/ 31 mag/ 49 skll/ 44 spd/ 47 luk/ 35 def/ 29 res

Paladin: 43 str/ 31 mag/ 46 skll/ 43 spd/ 47 luk/ 42 def/ 41 res

W. Lord: 47 str/ 31 mag/ 44 skll/ 41 spd/ 47 luk/ 46 def/ 29 res

G. Rider: 41 str/ 31 mag/ 49 skll/ 44 spd/ 47 luk/ 40 def/ 29 res

Kellam!Laurent has limited options, either Dark Knight or Great Knight. Personally, I still think the stat caps of the Assassin are superior to a DK's extra movement or a GK's WTA.

G. Knight: 48 str/ 24 mag/ 37 skll/ 37 spd/ 44 luk/ 50 def/ 31 res

D. Knight: 38 str/ 45 mag/ 43 skll/ 40 spd/ 44 luk/ 44 def/ 39 res

Assassin: 40 str/ 34 mag/ 51 skll/ 46 spd/ 44 luk/ 33 def/ 31 res

Henry!Cynthia is probably best as a Falcon Knight, but Assassin would be a decent runner-up.

F. Knight: 38 str/ 37 mag/ 50 skll/ 48 spd/ 44 luk/ 33 def/ 41 res

Assassin: 40 str/ 32 mag/ 53 skll/ 50 spd/ 44 luk/ 31 def/ 31 res

Libra!Yarne, like Kellam!Laurent has limited high-movement options. Only Dark Knight falls under this category.

D. Knight: 41 str/ 42 mag/ 44 skll/ 44 spd/ 44 luk/ 44 def/ 39 res

Assassin: 43 str/ 31 mag/ 52 skll/ 50 spd/ 44 luk/ 33 def/ 31 res

Taguel: 43 str/ 31 mag/ 52 skll/ 52 spd/ 50 luk/ 41 def/ 33 res (already factors in Beaststone+ boosts [+5 str, +8 skll, +8 spd, +6 luk, +4 def, +2 res])

Gaius!Brady has a decent number of high-movement options. He has Paladin, Great Knight, and Dark Knight. I've also included Assassin for comparison.

D. Knight: 37 str/ 43 mag/ 44 skll/ 43 spd/ 47 luk/ 39 def/ 41 res

G. Knight: 47 str/ 22 mag/ 38 skll/ 40 spd/ 47 luk/ 45 def/ 33 res

Paladin: 41 str/ 32 mag/ 44 skll/ 43 spd/ 47 luk/ 39 def/ 45 res

Assassin: 39 str/ 32 mag/ 52 skll/ 49 spd/ 47 luk/ 28 def/ 33 res

Vaike!Owain doesn't have any high-movement classes to speak of, so I'll just include his stats as an Assassin. Lon'qu!Owain would have access to Wyvern Lord and Griffon Rider though, so I'll include those as well.

Assassin: 42 str/ 31 mag/ 49 skll/ 48 spd/ 47 luk/ 31 def/ 30 res (Vaike)

Assassin: 39 str/ 33 mag/ 51 skll/ 50 spd/ 48 luk/ 29 def/ 30 res (Lon'qu)

W. Lord: 45 str/ 33 mag/ 41 skll/ 42 spd/ 48 luk/ 44 def/ 30 res

G. Rider: 39 str/ 33 mag/ 46 skll/ 45 spd/ 48 luk/ 38 def/ 30 res

Vaike!Gerome and Lon'qu!Gerome of course have Wyvern Lord and Griffon Rider for their highest-movement classes.

W. Lord: 53 str/ 29 mag/ 39 skll/ 39 spd/ 45 luk/ 49 def/ 27 res (Vaike)

G. Rider: 47 str/ 29 mag/ 44 skll/ 42 spd/ 45 luk/ 43 def/ 27 res (Vaike)

W. Lord: 50 str/ 31 mag/ 41 skll/ 41 spd/ 46 luk/ 47 def/ 27 res (Lon'qu)

G. Rider: 44 str/ 31 mag/ 46 skll/ 44 spd/ 46 luk/ 41 def/ 27 res (Lon'qu)

[Knusperkeks]

I can see the ending!

High movement:

Morgan@Griffon Rider

Counter, RFK, Lethality, Lucky7, Miracle

Cynthia@Falcon Knight

Counter, Tomebreaker, Lethality, Lucky7, Miracle

Lucina@Falcon Knight

RFK, Lethality, Aether, Luna, Hit+20

Lon'qu!Owain@Griffon Rider

Counter, Lucky7, Lethality, Quick Burn or HP+5, Miracle

Vaike!Gerome@Griffon Rider

Counter, Quick Burn or HP+5, Lethality, Lucky7, Miracle

Medium movement:

Laurent@Assassin +boots

Counter, Tomebreaker, Lethality, Lucky7, Miracle

Yarne@Assassin +boots

Counter, Quick Burn, Lethality, Lucky7, Miracle

Inigo@Paladin

Counter, RFK, Lethality, Hit+20, Luna

Brady@Paladin

Counter, Lucky7, Lethality, Luna or Acrobat or HP+5, Miracle

Edited April 11, 2015 by Knusperkeks

[Tactless Tactician]

Excellent! As far as the uncertainty with some units' skillsets, I'll offer my opinion:

Units with higher 'unrestricted' movement like Owain and Gerome should have HP+5 for their Miracle/Counter setups, while a unit like Brady should have either Luna or Acrobat.

Also, would there be any benefit to deliberately 'suppressing' a unit's def/res to ensure that the first attack initiated by the lead unit of a player's pair up *would* kill them, for the sake of Miracle, or does that seem unnecessary? Basically, this would entail using the stat-boosters on everything except for def/res.

Also, we don't seem to have included a skillset for the +skill/-strength FeMU.

I'm assuming it would be something like:

FeMU @ Falcon Knight

Lucky 7, Lethality, Quick Burn, Hit+20, Move+1

Falcon Knight FeMU with the given asset/flaw has 48 skill for exactly a 12% chance to proc Lethality. Move+1 is working under the assumption that FeMU will spawn further from the player's units than the rest of the AI. The rest is relatively standard.

[Knusperkeks]

Units with higher 'unrestricted' movement like Owain and Gerome should have HP+5 for their Miracle/Counter setups, while a unit like Brady should have either Luna or Acrobat.

In this case, I'd go for Acrobat on Brady.

Also, would there be any benefit to deliberately 'suppressing' a unit's def/res to ensure that the first attack initiated by the lead unit of a player's pair up *would* kill them, for the sake of Miracle, or does that seem unnecessary? Basically, this would entail using the stat-boosters on everything except for def/res.

Do you mean tonics? I was under the impression that tonics didn't work even if you applied them before doing the sortie.

Also, we don't seem to have included a skillset for the +skill/-strength FeMU.

I'm assuming it would be something like:

FeMU @ Falcon Knight

Lucky 7, Lethality, Quick Burn, Hit+20, Move+1

Falcon Knight FeMU with the given asset/flaw has 48 skill for exactly a 12% chance to proc Lethality. Move+1 is working under the assumption that FeMU will spawn further from the player's units than the rest of the AI. The rest is relatively standard.

I think the Hit+20 is overkill in this situation. She already has +35 from skills and +25 from forges. Maybe an Axebreaker would be cool to fight the axe vulnerability. Random Tomebreaker could work too, seeing as she is a flying unit (picking up one of your arguments from earlier).

Or Luna to make use of her high skill stat, since there certainly will be circumstances in which Lethality doesn't trigger, and getting a Luna at that point is really good.

Aside from that, the build looks decent I think.

[Tactless Tactician]

In this case, I'd go for Acrobat on Brady.

Sounds good.

Do you mean tonics? I was under the impression that tonics didn't work even if you applied them before doing the sortie.

No, I mean, oftentimes, when a player wants to cap a unit's stats without resorting to 'infinite' second seals, they use whatever statboosters they have available.

What I'm wondering is whether defense and resistance should not be maxed out on all 'Counter-Bomber' units; this would basically include everyone except FeMU and Lucina.

The purpose of this is, that when the player first engages a 'Counter-bomber' (particularly if the Counter-bomber initiates the battle), the lead unit will be able to do a significant amount of damage to the AI unit, thus triggering Miracle. It's kind of unnecessary, but I'm just saying that there may be little point in focusing on a Counter-bomber's def/res and there may be some benefit to deliberately refraining from maxing those stats.

I think the Hit+20 is overkill in this situation. She already has +35 from skills and +25 from forges. Maybe an Axebreaker would be cool to fight the axe vulnerability. Random Tomebreaker could work too, seeing as she is a flying unit (picking up one of your arguments from earlier).

Or Luna to make use of her high skill stat, since there certainly will be circumstances in which Lethality doesn't trigger, and getting a Luna at that point is really good.

Aside from that, the build looks decent I think.

Sure, if not Luna, I could certainly see Axebreaker or Tomebreaker working in place of Hit+20.

[Knusperkeks]

No, I mean, oftentimes, when a player wants to cap a unit's stats without resorting to 'infinite' second seals, they use whatever statboosters they have available.

What I'm wondering is whether defense and resistance should not be maxed out on all 'Counter-Bomber' units; this would basically include everyone except FeMU and Lucina.

The purpose of this is, that when the player first engages a 'Counter-bomber' (particularly if the Counter-bomber initiates the battle), the lead unit will be able to do a significant amount of damage to the AI unit, thus triggering Miracle. It's kind of unnecessary, but I'm just saying that there may be little point in focusing on a Counter-bomber's def/res and there may be some benefit to deliberately refraining from maxing those stats.

Oh that's what you mean. It sounds so reckless that it could really work! I have never seen anything like it personally (though the idea makes sense in theory!) so I don't know whether it's a good approach or not.

Did you try something like this already?

[Vascela]

It would mean either rigging stat growths since we are going through plenty of classes, defense will probably cap out.

Resistance might not though. But at what point does the last few points even matter? Plus, it's not as visually appealing :p

[Tactless Tactician]

Oh that's what you mean. It sounds so reckless that it could really work! I have never seen anything like it personally (though the idea makes sense in theory!) so I don't know whether it's a good approach or not.

Did you try something like this already?

Unfortunately not. I haven't had the means or occasion to try something like this yet.

All of my other files had capped units (regardless of whether they have LB or not), and besides, I haven't StreetPassed anyone recently.

I may be getting a N3DS, which would be good for testing purposes, but it's unlikely that it'll be in the immediate future.

I suppose the best option in this regard would be utilizing the Wellspring of Truth Paralogue...

It would mean either rigging stat growths since we are going through plenty of classes, defense will probably cap out.

Resistance might not though. But at what point does the last few points even matter? Plus, it's not as visually appealing :p

Well, I had a file where my MaMU took a defense flaw, and he wound up with 17 defense (and 22 resistance) as an otherwise fully-capped Wyvern Lord, having gone through the Cavalier and Myrmidon lines, having taken a brief detour through the Fighter class to get Counter. Paragon with Veteran is a blessing...

But still, there might be some benefit in doing so, so I'm willing to give it a shot.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Tactless Tactician

[Knusperkeks]

I guess we could just camp the world map for three hundred years. This should give Anna enough time to produce enough stat boosters.

[Tactless Tactician]

I guess we could just camp the world map for three hundred years. This should give Anna enough time to produce enough stat boosters.

Or we could use Rift Doors on the final chapter.

Or manually reset the 3DS's internal clock to trigger a birthday event every couple days.

Or possibly acquire them from random 'Outrealm Order' StreetPasses, but that's even less predictable.

Besides, one gets a decent number of boosters over the course of a standard playthrough, especially if you open all the chests and kill any item-carrying thieves on select maps.

Stat-boosters aside, what other modifications or suggestions would you recommend?

[Knusperkeks]

[spoiler=picture format]

High movement:

FeMU @ Falcon Knight

Lucky 7, Lethality, Quick Burn, Tomebreaker, Move+1

Inigo!Morgan@Griffon Rider

Counter, Lucky7, RFK, Lethality, Miracle

Henry!Cynthia@Falcon Knight

Counter, Lucky7, Tomebreaker, Lethality, Miracle

Olivia!Lucina@Falcon Knight

RFK, Hit+20, Aether, Luna, Lethality

Lon'qu!Owain@Griffon Rider

Counter, Lucky7, Quick Burn, Lethality, Miracle

Vaike!Gerome@Griffon Rider

Counter, Lucky7, Quick Burn, Lethality, Miracle

Medium movement:

Kellam!Laurent@Assassin +boots

Counter, Lucky7, Tomebreaker, Lethality, Miracle

Libra!Yarne@Assassin +boots

Counter, Lucky7, Quick Burn, Lethality, Miracle

Gaius!Brady@Paladin

Counter, Lucky7, Acrobat, Lethality, Miracle

Domingo!Inigo@Paladin

Counter, RFK, Lethality, Hit+20, Luna

If you feel more lucky with Miracle, give owain and Brady HP+5 instead of Acrobat and Quick Burn.