Shovel Knight Anonymafia - Game Over

[Sham]

I didn't want to talk about that stuff because BK had just flipped out at Propeller and I didn't want to come in going "BK thinks everyone is scum, I think he is either mafia or an annoying town" when the dude already wrote up multiple paragraphs upset at a dude over tone or something. I'd actually written up thoughts (the quote above summarizes that) but didn't touch that shit because mafia drama over scumreads is not something I want to deal with ever. I don't think scumreading everyone is a very useful thing to do as town, so BK's play is antitown in my opinion, but I don't know if mafia would be so brazen about it.

I think Propeller is town because I tend to agree with what he's got to say, and his posts since my last only reconfirm that for me.

I don't get how Mole can say BK is scummy, just multiple paragraphs on how the content of his posts are scummy, the tone is scummy, he's overedefensive, etc. and then go "It's only a slight scumread" because it's ED1?

And I was black knights case for things which aren't scummy so much as just play I do not agree and are not conducive to an enjoyable game.

This is outright not true unless you use words way differently than most people, you said he was doing things that are "usually a scumtell" in your second sentence about him.

Plague, why am I the same alignment as Tinker? You mention some sort of ED1 scum gambit, but I have no idea what you're referring to when you say that.

I don't see King's initial townslip comment coming from scum unless he was trying to make a scumbuddy look good, and I don't see scum trying to remove a townread from themselves for any reason except as a gambit, and I just figured double scum would be more likely to contrive that sort of scenario.

I gotta run some errands, be back in a bit over two hours.

[Cú Chulainn]

just wanna say i know meta in an anon game is annoying but i had to be honest.

also i'm not the only one doing it now which sucks bc i feel like i started a trend, but whatever. i still don't think king is scum. i'll have a more full reread when i get back, i'm going out now.

[Violet Evergarden]

I didn't want to talk about that stuff because BK had just flipped out at Propeller and I didn't want to come in going "BK thinks everyone is scum, I think he is either mafia or an annoying town" when the dude already wrote up multiple paragraphs upset at a dude over tone or something. I'd actually written up thoughts (the quote above summarizes that) but didn't touch that shit because mafia drama over scumreads is not something I want to deal with ever. I don't think scumreading everyone is a very useful thing to do as town, so BK's play is antitown in my opinion, but I don't know if mafia would be so brazen about it.I think Propeller is town because I tend to agree with what he's got to say, and his posts since my last only reconfirm that for me.I don't get how Mole can say BK is scummy, just multiple paragraphs on how the content of his posts are scummy, the tone is scummy, he's overedefensive, etc. and then go "It's only a slight scumread" because it's ED1?This is outright not true unless you use words way differently than most people, you said he was doing things that are "usually a scumtell" in your second sentence about him.I don't see King's initial townslip comment coming from scum unless he was trying to make a scumbuddy look good, and I don't see scum trying to remove a townread from themselves for any reason except as a gambit, and I just figured double scum would be more likely to contrive that sort of scenario.I gotta run some errands, be back in a bit over two hours.

My apologies I probably wasn't clear. Though I know for a fact that some of what you said is outright wrong but some it I should've been more clear on my thoughts. I said nothing about his tone being scummy, just overly-agressive which is not inherently scummy though, though I do not like the tone it is not scummy and did not inentionally say anything to imply otherwise. I've played with town who were ridiculously agressive and billegerint.

On to the point of me discussing the logical fallacies in his posts. While I did say "which is also a scum tell in my experience", I did not say it is universally scummy. The problem with using a logical fallacy as the basis of your case is that both town and scum have the tendency to fall back on them. This means that meta and experience is very important when looking at fallacy as a scum or town tell. My personal experience is that most of the time defense in indignation is done by scum. However while my experience may say that, I do not know the tendency of the specific player. This makes any immediate judgement based on this fallacy very, for lack of a better phrase, useless.

It's the same thing with tone, while my personal experience makes me believe people that are agressive are more likely to be scum. It is not inherently scummy and I do not know the personality of the player and as such cannot objectively use either criteria in my read on them. Hence why I said ignore their tone and actions. I should've been clearer and specified that I was ignoring their fallacies and not the entirety of their actions.

TL;DR

Wording matters and I may not have been very clear.

Also other post on actually note worthy stuff in like an hour gotta shit to do.

[Violet Evergarden]

@mole knight: yes it is ED1 and at the time had null/town on everyone else (null on treasure, null-maybe-town on king, town on tinker) and gut told me BK was scummy for that reason. I can't tell who you actually think is scum in your huge post,

wait I read the post again and are you saying you wrote that huge wall just to end it in all null reads and self-meta

duuuude why

just gonna point out that this is very hypocritical. you literally just admitted that you had no solid read, and no gut is not solid it is gut you will never convince me to vote off of that, and then turn around and complain that all i had was null reads when the circumstances are the exact same. if you wanna say its because my one post was a wall post, i will throwback that you have the second most posts in the thread and if you're saying you have the same content in you ~11 posts as i do in my 5, that says more about how your posting then anything else.

also relevant to what you were saying earlier but i accidentally cut it out of the quote and am too lazy to go get it again. anyways kind paraphrasing, "if my case was bad why am i null". because of the time in the game. the case is bad, and if that was your case in say 36 hours i would probably start trying to lynch you, unless bk was just posting the same thing for like 2 days in which case why is he not already lynched. but given the fact that when you posted your case, we were barely out RVS so i feel there is less to work off of, and so good cases don't exist really. that doesn't mean that i can't point that it was bad. like i can point that my case on bk is bad, which it is don't get me wrong, i don't really like my case right now, its just what i have to work atm. if that was my case in 24-36 hours from now, i would say lynch. thats not really even a question. bad play =/= scum play. hence why i haven't been lynched yet.

Plague, why am I the same alignment as Tinker? You mention some sort of ED1 scum gambit, but I have no idea what you're referring to when you say that. Like...I'm not bothered by this conclusion, but your only thought process to support it is to waffle on Tinker's reaction. Kind of annoyed that you ignored BK/Propeller Knight stuff, but I wouldn't call it scummy since that was my first reaction too.

this pretty much describes any problem i have with plague at this point. you mention that you think king and tinker are the same alignment, then proceed to ignore the request for an explanation, which i would actually really like as well. i would usually just highlight the question and ask for an answer, but i wanna you didn't answer in your last post. because you've pretty clearly have read the thread and have at least some understanding of the cases against you. so i just don't why you would ignore that point where, that information is significantly more important, than the obvious, least i thought it was obvious, fact that you didn't want to talk about cause you didn't want get caught up in it. please explain why there the same alignment and why you didn't answer the question in the last post.

@king

also i think help clarify what he meant when he said a gambit. he probably is talking about having the focus of the entire thread be on members of the scum team from the very start. and that it is unlikely that you and tinker would both be scum because of that. which is logically sound and i don't have a problem with it if that was the train of thought. but its only relevant if we have reason to believe that you and tinker are both town. which at this point 8 of us don't and plague can explain why he thinks your the same alignment.

[Cú Chulainn]

i have solid reads tho and i have said this

[Olivier]

So I was completely wrong about that anon identitiy, great!

Use different browsers for anonymafia people.

[Cú Chulainn]

as in I was describing how I felt at the time I made the BK vote which is different to what I feel now. your giant wall for 3 null reads just felt kinda unnecessary is what I was getting at

ftr I've got pretty solid town on two people right now

[Violet Evergarden]

or do what i do and use different deivces.

[Cú Chulainn]

phone lurking op

[Refakitty³]

I dislike Black's last post as well because it's an emotional response that could've easily been spoilered and directed only at the intended player, and the only reason I'd ever leave something like that out in the open is if I wanted people to townread me for it.

I probably should've spoilered it. Better yet, I probably shouldn't have written that at all since it doesn't add anything. But honestly, when you're upset and writing on the spur you don't think about stuff like that in advance.

So here's what you do: Don't insult other people? It's a real simple concept. Especially don't get salty when people are upset that you insulted them. Did you think Propeller was going to just take an insult to the face? I get that this is an emotionally charged game but have some tact. And you definitely seem to be the one who is moody here, especially considering how easily Propeller backed off of you.

Uh, excuse you, but since when has "BBM-level reading skills" been an insult in the first place? Unless you and Propeller are new to mafia or never hang around other mafia players (something which I VERY highly doubt) you should be aware that this is a thing that LITERALLY EVERYBODY says to one another. No one ever takes it personally or calls it a fucking insult. And if Propeller isn't supposed to just take an insult to the face, what do you think about this:

Thanks for trying to discourage me with that personal attack, by the way.

ALSO I MEANT JUSTIFY HIS TOWNTELL NOT HIS VOTE OKAY I'M STUPID

jesus it was a typo calm down

So I'm supposed to take the accusation that I'm trying to discourage someone with personal attacks without a complaint, when all I did was something I literally see every mafia player do? Reason I see this as a person attack: they're basically saying I'm a type of person who would make personal attacks just to discourage someone from voting me. How is that not a personal insult to me, as opposed to a mafia in-joke?

Also, I do not appreciate the implication that I was getting "upset" with the "calm down".

Actual content coming later, maybe.

[Cú Chulainn]

my opinion is changing pretty rapidly for some reason.

I'd change my vote but I don't have any stronger scumreads and I really want to drop what happened last night for a lot of reasons I'm not saying ingame.

ftr "jesus it was a typo" was supposed to be facetious since I read your vote as really OMGUS and whenever this happens in anon games I get super excited because it usually means I've found scum. I went overboard and I apologize. But let's just please drop it.

and if you need to talk to me about this postgame please for the love of god satan and jesus christ do NOT CALL ME OUT PUBLICLY ABOUT IT this is not because I "don't like it" but it is a legitimate anxiety trigger, please understand

[Olivier]

So I was completely wrong about that anon identitiy, great!

I also can't into english apparently. It must be all the shovel hits and the undeath affecting my diction.

I am less interested in shoving Plague off a cliff after their last post, but still interested in seeing more from them, as well as from Black and Tinker.

Black Knight should probably come back to the game when they've chilled out for a bit and everybody should stop talking about the incident altogether. This should be a fun group activity in which we decide who to kill off in a slightly more civilized manner.

[Marisa Kirisame]

Don't forget Polar Knight (assuming that they're the one who couldn't post due to scheduling conflicts since Prims implied that the start date wasn't conducive to every player).

Anyways, I just skimmed through the most recent posts (probably should do a more detailed read later), and here are my thoughts/questions.

@Propeller Knight- Are you scumreading Mole Knight for making a wall full of null reads or just annoyed with them? It's hard to tell.

@Specter Knight- Can you explain your scumread on Black Knight more? I didn't get that impression from your post at all; also what do make of my read on Black Knight (as in, not me leaning town Black Knight, but the actual reason for that)?

@Treasure Knight- Not really fond of your post. Again, your explanations are fine but you haven't really put any effort towards pushing anyone. Like I said before, it wasn't scummy when you did it before (since there was barely any content) but it is now. I also get that you have time constraints (you even said that there was going to be a Part 2), but the fact that you chose to post replies explaining yourself over content is uh...questionable. Would like to know why you did that.

@Plague Knight- Your recent post is actually pretty good, actually. My only problem is that you never addressed one of my issues with you (regarding why me/Tinker were likely to be of the same alignment), and I would like you to do so.

@Black Knight- Kind of the same issue I had with Treasure Knight. They basically spent time pursuing an issue that had been dropped over analyzing actual content and the priorities there bothers me.

[Sham]

I'm pretty sure I did comment on it? It doesn't make sense to me that that interaction is town/scum or scum/town, which only leaves town/town or scum/scum.

[Kamina]

Ok, I've finally found some time to post. Don't expect me to be much active until maybe D2, as my exams will end only next week.

Don't see much value in King Knight and Tinker Knight's interactions in page two. It seems to me that King Knight slipped on his logic at some point, and that is where questions surged about his methods. That said, the way he brings his own [questionable] meta to defend himself bothers me, since it is a very flimsy defense and justification. I agree with Black Knight about KK's meta. Really want to see more from him before I can make a clear judgment, though. PS: From what I've read in the following pages, KK seems like a newbie who's willing to put effort in his reads and in proggression of the discussion at hand, even if some of his reads are logically questionable. Leaning slightly town.

At first I liked Propeller Knight's vote on Black Knight, until I also noticed they were voting KK already (I'm also clumsy). The way BK addressed Propeller's vote on him seemed harsh to me at first, because I can see how easily it is for someone to miss one's RVS vote (and if the player is who I think it is, it usually happens), yet I recognize it had to be that way. They were on page 3, shaking someone for reads as if they were a treasure chest with golden coins is a legitimate action. I see Propeller's reaction and defense to BK's case as an overreaction, as it's filled with exaggerated emotion and, to some extent, personal attacks. They also didn't address BK's reason for voting them, Propeller's defense is actually a counterattack directed at BK. Not liking this.

Plague Knight's post about Tinker and KK doesn't make much sense. One of them could be scum, even if your argument implies both couldn't be scum at the same time, which I agree with. Besides, your post doesn't add much to the discussion, since it does not address TK and KK's content. Actually, you seem to be avoiding addressing content altogether (at least in your page 4 post's case), as you also handwave BK and Propeller interactions. Not liking this, because town would rather address as much content as possible in order to proggress with the discussion. To that effect, I agree with Specter Knight's point about Plague Knight.

About Mole Knight, it is surprising how his reads conflict with each other like matter and antimatter, effectively nulifying themselves upon interaction, leaving him with completely null reads. It is fine to say you're having issues developing a case in ED1, but your reads should at least have some consistency, even if it is ED1 consistency. The way he takes a step further, then steps back, makes me feel he's playing defensively, poking everyone he can at the same time at the same time he claims these people's actions are fine just because it is ED1. You ping my radar.

--

Fortune prick me, posts get really lenghty on page 4 and afterwards. I'm not reading all of this right now. I need to keep at least a bit of my stamina to study.

But I'll leave my vote here. You're the first one I'm going to challenge, Propeller Knight! Feel the might of my battle axe!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuHuD5Ahjck

##Vote: Propeller Knight

Reads so far:

Slightly leaning town

King Kai / King Knight

Burger King / Black Knight

Death / Specter Knight

Slightly leaning scum

Propeller Knight / Tornado Man

Mole Knight / Mondo Mole

Plague Knight

Null on everyone else.

[Marisa Kirisame]

ff6 boss theme XD

[Cú Chulainn]

bangs head against wall

look without the emotion and """personal attacks""" behind it (I was upset but also at the same time I was trying to be facetious, I didn't know i would set BK off like that and I'm scared of it happening again CAN WE FUCKING DROP THE PERSONAL ATTACK SHIT PLEASE), BK's vote on me is an OMGUS harping on the same things, similar for why I voted them for their remarks against King which yes, I am aware I didn't know BK was voting King before, but that does not make their OMGUS response towards me any better, they then came back to talk about the incident last night instead of post reads. like I'll wait for BK to calm down and see what their content is like after that, but please oh my god

I think if BK hadn't voted me over that, I would have felt a lot differently about them. But because they decided to respond that way, I thought it was reactionary/scummy. Town can as easily miss things as much as scum can, they're throwing around "Propeller didn't read" as reason for voting me and now we're all dwelling on the personal attack stuff and it's really stressing me out. IT WASN'T MY INTENTION, I freaked out because I don't like being accused of not reading games after I spent some time mulling over that post, I didn't realize I should have read RVS after all because either I don't or I'm around for RVS and I wasn't this time which is what made things different. I'm sorry okay can we please drop it

[Marisa Kirisame]

I have a bad gut feeling on Polar Knight, not sure why. Maybe it's just because I don't really agree with any of their scum reads.

I'm pretty sure I did comment on it? It doesn't make sense to me that that interaction is town/scum or scum/town, which only leaves town/town or scum/scum.

And so you did. My bad.

##Unvote

##Vote: Treasure Knight

[Cú Chulainn]

and yes if I seem oddly distant towards my read it's because I'm legitimately frightened and at this point I think I should just reread the thread to see if I can find a better vote.

[Cú Chulainn]

oh uhh to answer King's question I can't decide on my Mole read honestly, they're doing things I don't like but I'm getting the feeling this is one of those instances I'm gonna have to wait for more content before I can get a feel from them.

However their last post where they accused me of being a hypocrite because they took a response I made to them out of context and used it to assume I have no real reads at this point of the day phase /:

[Marisa Kirisame]

Just going to list my reads out as much as for my convenience (keeping track of things is hard) as for anyone elses'.

Town (//////)

King Knight

Propeller Knight

Plague Knight

Mole Knight

Null (??????)

Tinker Knight

Specter Knight

Black Knight

Mafia (!!!!!!)

Polar Knight

Treasure Knight

[Cú Chulainn]

also Polar Knight strikes me as not getting the context of some things and I also don't 100% get why he's voting me. How is BK's quick switch from KK to me not an overreaction, then?

Emotion is a null tell which is why I'm trying not to focus on it.

[Cú Chulainn]

actually lol fuck this

##Unvote

##Vote: Polar Knight

I can hear the people screaming "HYPOCRITE OMGUS" but I'm gonna wait for BK's later content and put my vote somewhere more useful. What I don't like most about Polar's post is how they sorta sum things up/lump things together without providing specific examples, and their read on Mole Knight really bugs me for some reason. Because TBF Mole Knight did specify one of their null reads was leaning scum (I'm rereading because I read things in haste earlier and I apologize) and although they've been doing things I don't like (which I have specified and Mole's future content might affect this more, IDK), and I don't like how Polar says Mole's reads should have consistency... consistency in reads is an entirely different issue and if that's the case, why do you think BK is town then? And why do you say "I need to see more of King's content before I can judge him" but put him down as town instead of null? How is that consistent? And could you maybe explain any of your town reads since you explained your scum reads?

[Cú Chulainn]

Also can you explain what ED1 consistency in one's reads is in your words then?? because I don't really understand the concept of ED1 consistency in general

[Marisa Kirisame]

You stand on the game of disaster, the mafia game, where the Biological Intelligence in Artificial System, what we call "BIAS" locates. Nobody knows what has been going on "BIAS". You could hear nothing but the deep breathing of "BIAS". The only way to survive is...DEHUMANIZE YOURSELF AND FACE THE BLOODSHED.