cnkern Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) For reading it 5 times, you still don't seem to grasp the point. I believe that tiers exist in competitive play, but only in a competitive environment. I acknowledged your point and revised my thinking. Your post was a restatement of what I said. In the META GAME, some characters shine due to being suited to it's standards. i don't think you understand we are both in agreement but are still arguing. (also i quoted before you edited and was reading what i quoted due to me not wanting to go back a page) also i was only posting that to prove tiers which you than changed your post to acknowledge tiers. Edited June 20, 2015 by cnkern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batter the Beast Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Submitted, loled at Dank Pit. The most noteworthy placements were Charizard in C because the buffs add to his grab game and Falco in B from the buffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnkern Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Submitted, loled at Dank Pit. The most noteworthy placements were Charizard in C because the buffs add to his grab game and Falco in B from the buffs. would you mind going more indepth about falco being B cause to me C at best. would love to know your reasoning maybe you can enlighten me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batter the Beast Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 He just has a vastly improved combo game, the other bad aspects about him are still bad but he can get a lot from just a dthrow/upthrowand his grab itself is pretty good. Also his nair and upair got super buffed (nair got some kind of weird windbox or something that pulls people in), and those were already some of his best aerials. Pre patch I'd say he's C or even D, but after the last patch his combo ability puts him up in B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnkern Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) He just has a vastly improved combo game, the other bad aspects about him are still bad but he can get a lot from just a dthrow/upthrowand his grab itself is pretty good. Also his nair and upair got super buffed (nair got some kind of weird windbox or something that pulls people in), and those were already some of his best aerials. Pre patch I'd say he's C or even D, but after the last patch his combo ability puts him up in B. hmm maybe i should try him. played him pre-patch and never found a reason to play him but now you gave me one. EDIT: i just felt a reliance on aerials makes a bad character this game due to shielding being better than it was in brawl. Edited June 20, 2015 by cnkern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 Save the tier list arguing for somewhere else. The form actually assumed a reasonably competitive set up. It's been less than a day, but I'm rather surprised by the large number of results we've gotten, so here's a preliminary list! [spoiler=IT'S THE LIST] I'd rather not dish out the numbers right now, but the tiers have been split by mostly by numerical values. The only human input was deciding those values and including another tier since C would have been super massive without it. Anyone in the current D was just at the cutoff to be at the bottom of C. All responses were included, even the ones that I thought were grossly "wrong". Remember, this list is voted for, so it's not going to be changed by discussion. However, that's not to say we can't talk about it! Generally, I think it looks pretty reasonable. I'm not sure why Wario's as low as he is, but I guess that's just me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirbySuperStar Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 I put the reddit tier list in the spoiler above. I personally like our list a lot better. Also is this customs on or off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 Our list assumes customs on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 I put the reddit tier list in the spoiler above. I personally like our list a lot better. Also is this customs on or off? This list looks like it's from before a patch or two since it has Diddy at the very top and it lacks the DLC characters all together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Save the tier list arguing for somewhere else. The form actually assumed a reasonably competitive set up. It's been less than a day, but I'm rather surprised by the large number of results we've gotten, so here's a preliminary list! [spoiler=IT'S THE LIST] Woo for Peach, Zero Suit Samus, and Lucas! But a cry for Zelda :( F? Is she really that bad? Oh well! I wasn't competitive anyways XD. Besides, I'm not even good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Carter, it could be worse. You could be someone who uses Mii Swordsman. Like me. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Main thing that baffles me is that there are place differences between Pit and "Dank" Pit :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnkern Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) this list was a lot more solid than i thought it was going to be...wow kinda surprised. some things do irk me like wii fit, olimar, and pacman not being higher are real standouts. also best placement of shulk on any tier list i have seen. Edited June 20, 2015 by cnkern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 I'm a little surprised at Ryu over Roy and Lucas' placement in general, though Lucas is also the one I abstained on. Ike > Robin seems really strange, too. Considering this is customs on (though this was not made clear), WFT and Palutena I think should be higher. Otherwise the list looks pretty solid for this point in time, with only minor things not really worth mentioning. Woo for Peach, Zero Suit Samus, and Lucas! But a cry for Zelda :( F? Is she really that bad? Oh well! I wasn't competitive anyways XD. Besides, I'm not even good. The fundamental flaw with Zelda seems to be that she's like a heavy character without the heavy part. Her attacks are more sluggish and powerful overall, but she doesn't have the defense to stay in long enough to get those good reads. It doesn't help that her most powerful kill move (Farore's Wind) is extremely easy to punish. The recent buff to her up smash is very nice, though. I think she's a little underrated by the majority who just see her as the same as her Brawl counterpart, but I don't see her ever going very high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I put the reddit tier list in the spoiler above. I personally like our list a lot better. Also is this customs on or off? reddit makes tier lists every month; the most recent (june) is found here yours is rather old Considering this is customs on (though this was not made clear), WFT and Palutena I think should be higher. looks pretty clear to me also I agree wrt palutena and zelda; zelda wishes she were a heavywieght punish character, or a zoning sort of projectile character, but as it is she's neither, just fragile and unsafe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 also I agree wrt palutena and zelda; zelda wishes she were a heavywieght punish character, or a zoning sort of projectile character, but as it is she's neither, just fragile and unsafe Zelda just seems to have the negative aspects of a heavy character. Both her projectiles aren't exactly speedy, and they're pretty easy to punish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Zelda just seems to have the negative aspects of a heavy character. Both her projectiles aren't exactly speedy, and they're pretty easy to punish.That's what I was trying to say. She WISHES she could zone with her projectiles, but she can't. She WISHES she had the survivability of a punish character, but she doesn't. She sucks at both of the options she's got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 Coolios! At least she's not Swordsman! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 *cries* I wish Zelda wasn't so bad! At least my brother doesn't know how to beat my Zelda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Hey, Shin, Mii Swordsman is one of my secondaries, I've got it worse than any of you! :( But at least I'm actually pretty decent with my Frederick Mii! I've been able to kick butt with him a few times, including in one-on-ones. ^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Coolios! At least she's not Swordsman!YEAH! If she were Swordsman, Trela would be winning tourneys with her. Hey, Shin, Mii Swordsman is one of my secondaries, I've got it worse than any of you! :(you spend an awful lot of time complaining about how you have it so much worse than the rest of us because your mains/secondaries aren't top tier and you're not even right; swordsman isn't exactly the worst character bad, maybe, but not the worst (I would argue that Zelda probably has more issues but I'm not an expert) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comet Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) you know it's bad when zelda can't even short hop kick without landing lagggggggggggggggggggggggg Edited June 22, 2015 by Comet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zera Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I've just discovered something incredible. This is Sheik's trophy description - In The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Sheik claimed to be a surviving Sheikah. However, this was just a cunning disguise for Princess Zelda so that she could escape Ganondorf. In Smash Bros., she's the complete opposite of Zelda, striking with fast attacks that can keep an opponent off balance. That's why Shiek is at the top of the tier list while Zelda is at the bottom. Opposites. *Mind Blown* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 Cool, I think we've got as many votes as we're going to get, and the list isn't particularly different. It was interesting to see how things turned out, the list's actually pretty similar to the reddit ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 I'm just sad all my S votes for characters like Dedede (i mean, one of the tooltips says he's perfect) still resulted in pitifully low tiers :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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