Class Changing and Inheritance Thread

[Lord of Riva]

parallel seals? from the item (staff) shop limited amounts until you max it out though

Edited July 31, 2015 by Lord of Riva

[mimasho]

parallel seals? from the item (staff) shop limited amounts until you max it out though

AAH I'm an idiot, I was staring at the child seal or something in my inventory and wondering why it wasn't available in my store (which makes sense, since it's for the fe:if child units) but thanks for the clarification ahah ~!

[HeoandReo]

I'm curious to know about this as well, since both of Benoit's A+ options (aside from Tsukuyomi) yield the "Fighter" class, which is already his second option.

My understanding is that the Buddy Seal would be functionally the same as a Parallel Seal, since Fighter isn't Benoit's base, but he can access it as his secondary.

[lysander]

My understanding is that the Buddy Seal would be functionally the same as a Parallel Seal, since Fighter isn't Benoit's base, but he can access it as his secondary.

I keep seeing a lot of "my understanding is..." with regards to this, but would prefer a screenshot or actual "I tried it and..." stories. Like the first post of this thread's "understanding" was that marriage seals in that situation become "functionally redundant" but we are now seeing from actual antecedents that that is simply not the case, at least with kamui as the test.

Theory crafting is fine, but it should at least be based on antecedents or screenshots. Like the "they function like parallel seals" thing isn't right--antecedents have shown that for anywhere where the buddy/marriage seal doesn't appear to give anything new, it doesn't function from the menu. But IS implemented a lot of logic to prevent that from happening in most cases. We're still trying to figure out where/when that logic does and does not apply.

Edited July 31, 2015 by lysander

[mimasho]

Aaah so I somehow had it wrapped around my mind that Foleo would inherit my outlaw secondary class...which of course, he didn't (makes sense now that I read the front page)

Is there no way to get him the outlaw line besides marrying him to Eponine ? ; A ; I had my heart set on Soleil, but...I need him as an adventurer ; U ;

[gayserbeam]

Aaah so I somehow had it wrapped around my mind that Foleo would inherit my outlaw secondary class...which of course, he didn't (makes sense now that I read the front page)

Is there no way to get him the outlaw line besides marrying him to Eponine ? ; A ; I had my heart set on Soleil, but...I need him as an adventurer ; U ;

Eponine is the only Outlaw child, so yes, you're stuck marrying them. But Dark Blood Foleo is pretty badass anyway. Edited July 31, 2015 by gayserbeam

[Leif]

I don't remember anyone bringing this up, but does Mozume pass down Villager to Sophie if she marries Silas?

[Azz]

I don't remember anyone bringing this up, but does Mozume pass down Villager to Sophie if she marries Silas?

Mozume always passes down Villager to her kids but Mozume gives Bowman for mariage and buddy seals.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Azz01

[Xeniferos]

My understanding is that the Buddy Seal would be functionally the same as a Parallel Seal, since Fighter isn't Benoit's base, but he can access it as his secondary.

Bummer if this really is the case, causing him to lose out on extra class options in Nohr (Can't complain about Basara access in IK, though).

I keep seeing a lot of "my understanding is..." with regards to this, but would prefer a screenshot or actual "I tried it and..." stories. Like the first post of this thread's "understanding" was that marriage seals in that situation become "functionally redundant" but we are now seeing from actual antecedents that that is simply not the case, at least with kamui as the test.

Theory crafting is fine, but it should at least be based on antecedents or screenshots. Like the "they function like parallel seals" thing isn't right--antecedents have shown that for anywhere where the buddy/marriage seal doesn't appear to give anything new, it doesn't function from the menu. But IS implemented a lot of logic to prevent that from happening in most cases. We're still trying to figure out where/when that logic does and does not apply.

I agree, I'd definitely like to see confirmation one way or the other. I may ask one of the people who has the game to try it out if they aren't too busy. Benny's my favorite character, after all.

[Elite Lord Sigma]

[T]here are still the questions of whether Female Kamui is the Exception to the "Father first, then Mother" pattern Inheritance seems to have and ,in the case she's not and it leads to a Class Overlap case, what would that mean to the Kanna from either Rod-Knight!Kamui/Joker or Priestess!Kamui/Asama considering Inheritance seems to recognize the Gender-split Class Trees and include the proper equivalents.

I have an answer to the first question. Female Kamui is not an exception to the rule. When she married Silas with Cavalier as her alternate class set, Kanna was able to reclass into either Cavalier or Ninja. As Ninja is Cavalier's analog, it indicates that Silas was prioritized over Kamui.

[spoiler=SIlas!Kanna]

Also, for the sake of being thorough, I checked to see if male Rod Knights and female Rod Knights are treated as separate classes for a non-Kamui couple. After pairing Jakob/Joker and Elise, I found that Jakob could use Elise's Wyvern Knight class set and vice-versa. So, it would seem the healer classes are only treated as separate when analogous classes come into play.

[spoiler=Elise]

[Xeniferos]

I have an answer to the first question. Female Kamui is not an exception to the rule. When she married Silas with Cavalier as her alternate class set, Kanna was able to reclass into either Cavalier or Ninja. As Ninja is Cavalier's analog, it indicates that Silas was prioritized over Kamui.

[spoiler=SIlas!Kanna]

Also, for the sake of being thorough, I checked to see if male Rod Knights and female Rod Knights are treated as separate classes for a non-Kamui couple. After pairing Jakob/Joker and Elise, I found that Jakob could use Elise's Wyvern Knight class set and vice-versa. So, it would seem the healer classes are only treated as separate when analogous classes come into play.

[spoiler=Elise]

Interesting... Thanks for testing and posting this!

[AstraSage]

I have an answer to the first question. Female Kamui is not an exception to the rule. When she married Silas with Cavalier as her alternate class set, Kanna was able to reclass into either Cavalier or Ninja. As Ninja is Cavalier's analog, it indicates that Silas was prioritized over Kamui.

[spoiler=SIlas!Kanna]

Also, for the sake of being thorough, I checked to see if male Rod Knights and female Rod Knights are treated as separate classes for a non-Kamui couple. After pairing Jakob/Joker and Elise, I found that Jakob could use Elise's Wyvern Knight class set and vice-versa. So, it would seem the healer classes are only treated as separate when analogous classes come into play.

[spoiler=Elise]

I think I have an idea of what's happening.

Not counting the results I'm waiting from Carter of Arthur using a Buddy Seal while he has an A+ with Flannel, the whole process of Reclassing with a Marriage/Buddy (I'm still assuming they use the same logic) Seal seems to align pretty well with what I'm cross-posting from the "I want to know a Thing" thread:

To Define:
User: Character using a Marriage/Buddy Seal to Reclass.
Target: Character the User has a S/A+ Rank Support with.

If the Base Tree of the User is different than the First Tree the Target allows to Reclass into:
    The User Reclass into a Class of the First Tree of the Target.
    The Class Set of the User Becomes the Union of his/her Class Set with the First Tree of the Target.
    (with a Union being "{A, B} U {C} = {A, B, C} OR {A, B} U {B} = {A, B}")
Otherwise:
    The User Reclass into a Class of the Second Tree the Target allows to Reclass into.
    The Class Set of the User Becomes the Union of his/her Class Set with the Second Tree of the Target.

The thing with Priest!Kamui/Sakura or Rod-Knight!Kamui/Felicia is that the Conditional Test DOES recognize the Gender-variations of each Healer Class Tree as the Same Class, but the resulting Faction Parallel is such an afterthought that it doesn't get converted to its Gender-Equivalent like it should be done when it's either a Base or Alternate Tree.

In Conclusion and using Felicia as an Example: she's actually getting "Priest" from the Avatar which hits the Gender-Constraint that brings the Hammer down and blocks her from using the Seal.

That said, I've updated the Class Inheritance Charts with the recent observations and I repeat that it still remains the question of whether a Male Kana from Rod-Knight!Kamui/Jakob or Priestess!Kamui/Asama would get affected by the above because the Class Inheritance is more through with its logic...

Edited July 31, 2015 by AstraSage

[mimasho]

Eponine is the only Outlaw child, so yes, you're stuck marrying them. But Dark Blood Foleo is pretty badass anyway.

aaaah that sucks, but thanks for the clarification ! ; U ;

aaand thanks for the tip as well, I just reclassed him to Dark Blood, and I'll admit, I'm liking it so far ~

maybe I won't have to marry him to Eponine after all !

[Erior]

The chart, at the moment, gives the impression Hana!Matoi only gets 2 classes (Pegasus Warrior as base, Samurai from Subaki... and Samurai from Hana). Shouldn't she be getting an additional class, or is that not the case?

[Azz]

The chart, at the moment, gives the impression Hana!Matoi only gets 2 classes (Pegasus Warrior as base, Samurai from Subaki... and Samurai from Hana). Shouldn't she be getting an additional class, or is that not the case?

More then likely that is an error.I am assuming she gets Priestess off of Hana.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Azz01

[AstraSage]

The chart, at the moment, gives the impression Hana!Matoi only gets 2 classes (Pegasus Warrior as base, Samurai from Subaki... and Samurai from Hana). Shouldn't she be getting an additional class, or is that not the case?

More then likely that is an error.I am assuming she gets Priestess off of Hana.

It was an Copy-Paste Error that somehow escaped my attention that and it just got corrected. Thanks for pointing it out.

[Carter]

Is there any possible way for Shigure to get the Wyvern Rider line through marriage or buddy seals on the Hoshido path? I screwed up, saving after I paired Azura with Kaze (and later realizing I'd rather pair her with Jakob). I still haven't paired Ryoma, Takumi, Asama, Hisame, or Jakob with anyone yet. For the females, Rinkah, Hana, Setsuna, Oboro, Mozume, and Felicia are still unpaired.

Through any of these pairings, is it possible that one of the other children can give Shigure the Wyvern Rider line?

[December Knight]

Is there any possible way for Shigure to get the Wyvern Rider line through marriage or buddy seals on the Hoshido path? I screwed up, saving after I paired Azura with Kaze (and later realizing I'd rather pair her with Jakob). I still haven't paired Ryoma, Takumi, Asama, Hisame, or Jakob with anyone yet. For the females, Rinkah, Hana, Setsuna, Oboro, Mozume, and Felicia are still unpaired.

Through any of these pairings, is it possible that one of the other children can give Shigure the Wyvern Rider line?

I believe the only way for Shigure to get the Wyvern Rider line in Hoshido is to have him marry female!Kamui.

Edit - I had forgotten how the marriage seals work. I'm sorry for my mistake.

Edited August 4, 2015 by December Knight

[astrophys]

None of the kids start as a Wyvern in Birthright, so you'd need to have a Pegasus with a secondary class of Wyvern… and even then, I think it would use their father's inheritance, so I don't think its possible from a kid.

A female Kamui with a Wyvern secondary could give it to Shigure. But that probably doesn't help you.

Speaking of Wyvern-capable Jakob!Shigure, it should allow for a situation in which you can get the following rallies on him:

Rally Speed (Falcon Warrior)

Rally Resistance (Strategist)

Rally Defense (Wyvern)

then marry Mitama (Priestess marriage seal --> Priest)

Rally Luck (Priest)

Rally Magic (Exorcist)

That's five standard rallies in Hoshido on one character, with just natural inheritance and marriage seal mechanics.

[Just call me AL]

Getting Wyvern Rider on Shigure might be possible with marrying him to Felicia!Matoi, but it would require him to specifically be either Ryoma's or Hinata's son. Unfortunately, that's all I can think of. Outside of marrying him to Female Corrin, that is.

[Carter]

Just came to pop in and say, Arthur gets Outlaw from a Buddy Seal with Flannel. Is this the same instance with Azura and Rod Knight?

[astrophys]

Really?

So:

Arthur: Fighter, Cavalier

Flannel: Garou, Fighter

So is it basically coming about this way…

Garou is a non-transferable class, so for buddy seal purposes Arthur looks at Flannel's secondary as if its his primary and vice-versa. They share this first compared class (Fighter), so it switches over to Secondary. But Flannel cannot give Garou, so Garou gets replaced with Outlaw.

But does Flannel get nothing from Arthur in return?

[Carter]

Flannel gets Fighter from Arthur. Unfortunately, yeah, he doesn't get anything new from Arthur.

[Dalyzor]

Question: How can I get Snake Venom and Deadly Breath on Velour? I heard that those skills stack with Four Fangs, so I wanted to know if there was a way to get all 3. I had an idea of giving Kanna the Ninja tree secondary so she could marry him and get Snake Venom that way and have her mother be Camilla, but is there another way, Invisible path or otherwise?

[Azz]

Question: How can I get Snake Venom and Deadly Breath on Velour? I heard that those skills stack with Four Fangs, so I wanted to know if there was a way to get all 3. I had an idea of giving Kanna the Ninja tree secondary so she could marry him and get Snake Venom that way and have her mother be Camilla, but is there another way, Invisible path or otherwise?

Really the only way is for Camila or Belka to mother Velour and for Velour to either marry the Avatar or a M!Kanna or A+ F!Kanna with Ninja as a subclass.

Also, Flannel could marry Rinka and Rinka could pass down Snake Venom.Though Rinka would have to reclass and grind for it since Rinka passes down Oni instead of Ninja.The if you dod that Velour would have to marry Lutz, The Avatar, M!Kanna, or A+ Kanna with Wyvern Rider subclass.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Azz01