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Minischew

Is it too early to expect a Character Tier List?

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It's just as the title says. I don't really know when people start creating tier lists, since I started playing Awakening relatively late, and by then, all of them were already out. I actually familiarized myself with the characters before playing by reading through these lists, which immensely helped me select the appropriate units I wanted to use for my campaign.

Therefore, I was wondering if tier lists for Fates would be available, or if it would be more customary to expect them after the NA/Europe release.

Edited by Minischew

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It's just as the title says. I don't really know when people start creating tier lists, since I started playing Awakening relatively late, and by then, all of them were already out. I actually familiarized myself with the characters before playing by reading through these lists, which immensely helped me select the appropriate units I wanted to use for my campaign.

Therefore, I was wondering if tier lists for Fates would be available, or if it would be more customary to expect them after the NA/Europe release.

Perhaps its a little too early. However, I've heard from members, who own the game, state that Camilla is extremely OP. I've also heard Zero is very good in the Nohr campaign as well since he is extremely fast. I am not sure who's good on Hoshido aside from Takumi and Ryoma.

A tier list would work for usefulness in story mode only, since grinding can make anyone good.

There are, however, a few characters that seem to be underwhelming, those of which include: Odin (sadly), Hana, and Peiri.

Edited by Leif

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Perhaps its a little too early. However, I've heard from members, who own the game, state that Camilla is extremely OP. I've also heard Zero is very good in the Nohr campaign as well since he is extremely fast. I am not sure who's good on Hoshido aside from Takumi and Ryoma.

A tier list would work for usefulness in story mode only, since grinding can make anyone good.

There are, however, a few characters that seem to be underwhelming, those of which include: Odin (sadly), Hana, and Peiri.

I've heard that a really underwhelming character is Rinkah, haha. Thanks for the response! I was worried for a long time that Camilla would be useless, seeing as how pre-promotes tend to be weaker (in the long run).

And yeah, I've mostly seen tier lists for Normal and Hard. But I reckon that certain characters are nevertheless better than others even with grinding. Take Silas, for instance; as a jack-of-all-kinds, I imagine that he falls behind once everyone is grinded to their max.

And Pieri? I actually thought she'd be a better Cavalier than Silas. Why is she underwhelming?

Edited by Minischew

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Perhaps its a little too early. However, I've heard from members, who own the game, state that Camilla is extremely OP. I've also heard Zero is very good in the Nohr campaign as well since he is extremely fast. I am not sure who's good on Hoshido aside from Takumi and Ryoma.

A tier list would work for usefulness in story mode only, since grinding can make anyone good.

There are, however, a few characters that seem to be underwhelming, those of which include: Odin (sadly), Hana, and Peiri.

I own the game and have played all 3 campaigns and i can say that (including takumi an ryoma) saizou nishiki and setsuna become monsters when you put some levels in them in hoshido.

For nohr camilla elise (who is a class canon tho) zero and Flora where extremely strong strong in my playtrough.

If someone is going to create a tierlist than i think that you shoud exclude the children since there growth rate are kinda BS + mozume giving +10% to one child is even more OP.

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Why is Camilla OP? Just curious, cause theoryFEing doesn't bring me to the same conclusions.

Apparently she has great growths and good enough offense to tank a few hits and retaliate with strong blows. I've heard one member say that she was able to get most of her stats in the thirties, which is good considering that stats and growths tend to be lower in this game. She also gets Overwhelm and Deadly Breath which increase her overall offensive prowess. Her personal skill is great too.

Again, this is based on word-of-mouth; I wish I could test her out for myself.

I've heard that a really underwhelming character is Rinkah, haha. Thanks for the response! I was worried for a long time that Camilla would be useless, seeing as how pre-promotes tend to be weaker (in the long run).

And yeah, I've mostly seen tier lists for Normal and Hard. But I reckon that certain characters are nevertheless better than others even with grinding. Take Silas, for instance; as a jack-of-all-kinds, I imagine that he falls behind once everyone is grinded to their max.

And Pieri? I actually thought she'd be a better Cavalier than Silas. Why is she underwhelming?

She suffers from a rather late joining time, "well-rounded" syndrome like Silas, (meaning that her stats are so evenly distributed that she can't pack a punch) and she doesn't have good reclass options (dark mage lol). Silas is the superior option out of the two since he is in the party for a longer time, and can reclass to mercenary and still retain a sword weapon rank, should you want to get Sol.

Edited by Leif

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Xander/Takumi

-

The rest.

No but seriously, I haven't had time to use all the characters yet, but some are definitely more powerful than others. Tsubaki is incredibly weak despite being so "perfect" fuck your 完璧完璧ー,whereas Hinoka is probably the weakest sibling, although still a good tank.

The pegasi riders seem a bit underwhelming this game in general, now that I think about it. Too bad, because every Hoshido royal can class change into one.

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Apparently she has great growths and good enough offense to tank a few hits and retaliate with strong blows. I've heard one member say that she was able to get most of her stats in the thirties, which is good considering that stats and growths tend to be lower in this game. She also gets Overwhelm and Deadly Breath which increase her overall offensive prowess. Her personal skill is great too.

My problem with Camilla (again, when theoryFEing) is that her strongest attacking stat is easily strength and she is unfortunate to not get a Prf axe which would counter at 1-2 range and have some other useful properties (at the very least, sufficient Mt). If you actually want to double with her while attacking at both ranges, you'll have to use tomes, which she just doesn't strike me as a good user of.

This is just my guesswork / experience with other FEs - a good character is one who ORKOs crowds of enemies with some manner of investment or choices made. Xander does that, tome users do that (though I question the ease of training them to a competent level while playing efficiently). I'm really not sure how much Camilla can do as a tome user, and whether sacrificing 1-2 range combat is permissible.

Edited by Espinosa

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Xander/Takumi

-

The rest.

No but seriously, I haven't had time to use all the characters yet, but some are definitely more powerful than others. Tsubaki is incredibly weak despite being so "perfect" fuck your 完璧完璧ー,whereas Hinoka is probably the weakest sibling, although still a good tank.

The pegasi riders seem a bit underwhelming this game in general, now that I think about it. Too bad, because every Hoshido royal can class change into one.

Except Takumi.No wonder he is so Op, it is the Pegasus aids.

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She suffers from a rather late joining time, "well-rounded" syndrome like Silas, (meaning that her stats are so evenly distributed that she can't pack a punch) and she doesn't have good reclass options (dark mage lol). Silas is the superior option out of the two since he is in the party for a longer time, and can reclass to mercenary and still retain a sword weapon rank, should you want to get Sol.

Ah, I see. Aw, I thought her Spd and Res would let her be a mage killer. That's a bit of disappointment; maybe I'll use her while grinding for supports or something.

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From my own experience (Nohr only so far), Camilla, Marx, and Leon are my most reliable units (as in extremely powerful, though depending on the situation Camilla and Leon can sometimes be fragile).

Elfie was pretty great for the first 13 chapters. I was trying to give all of my units some exp. before I realized I couldn't really do that... So I wonder how some units would have fared if I had invested more experience into them.

Right now I'm trying to level up some of the kids, Velour, Soleil, Midoriko and Siegbert are doing pretty great.

Edited by Shinshia

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My problem with Camilla (again, when theoryFEing) is that her strongest attacking stat is easily strength and she is unfortunate to not get a Prf axe which would counter at 1-2 range and have some other useful properties (at the very least, sufficient Mt). If you actually want to double with her while attacking at both ranges, you'll have to use tomes, which she just doesn't strike me as a good user of.

This is just my guesswork / experience with other FEs - a good character is one who ORKOs crowds of enemies with some manner of investment or choices made. Xander does that, tome users do that (though I question the ease of training them to a competent level while playing efficiently). I'm really not sure how much Camilla can do as a tome user, and whether sacrificing 1-2 range combat is permissible.

No one really does this except for overleveled Corrin with Kunai or Magic (durability might be questionable depending on the build tho). Xander is slow. Other Kunai/Tome users don't have durability/speed. Ryouma steamrolls for a decent while, but even his durability is lacking after a bit (his avoid + Astra is great tho). Camillia still ohkos crowds of 1 range enemies and she flies + crazy bases for when she joins.

ot: I'm kinda working on a character viability impressions/analysis/guide (mainly for lunatic, no grind, etc), mainly just to get some more thoughts/discussion out there, though it might help some new players.

You're pretty okay using Corrin + siblings + who you like, however. Other standouts off the top of my head are Zero and Kaze in Nohr (very fast when most other units aren't), Silas and Crimson in Hoshido (tanky when most other units aren't).

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Going by what I've heard so far, it seems as though every character that comes with Pegasus Warrior is better off when they aren't in that class. This could be a problem for Aqua in particular if you want her to do something other than spam Sing since she'll have to A+/S Rank someone to get a better class.

What I would like to hear about though is the thought proccess IS put into some of these people's growths/class sets/mods. I get the impression that Rinka was a running joke on their part considering how much her story/supports point her out to be a fairly strong character physically yet her growths and mods say otherwise. Why would you make someone's best growth Skill but set a -2 cap modifier? It just doesn't make any sense.

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Going by what I've heard so far, it seems as though every character that comes with Pegasus Warrior is better off when they aren't in that class. This could be a problem for Aqua in particular if you want her to do something other than spam Sing since she'll have to A+/S Rank someone to get a better class.

What I would like to hear about though is the thought proccess IS put into some of these people's growths/class sets/mods. I get the impression that Rinka was a running joke on their part considering how much her story/supports point her out to be a fairly strong character physically yet her growths and mods say otherwise. Why would you make someone's best growth Skill but set a -2 cap modifier? It just doesn't make any sense.

There are definitely some odd design decisions in regards to a few units.

Odin joins at level 12 in the third path...on the 17:th map. I believe he gets doubled by everything and dies directly to any physical attack, although don't quote me on that. The point is that he is utterly unusable unless you put in a lot of time and effort.

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From my own perspective, it's true that the characters in general, are weaker, unless you have like a goddamn Avatar with 30s in everything steamrolling everything with nosferatu/some other tome, you'll pretty much never have a "godly" unit. The closest would either be

[spoiler=Xander]

Xander: Speed will lag behind, but he hits fairly hard and tanks well.

[spoiler=Ryoma]

Ryoma: Durability is a bit insufficient, somewhat but not fully compensated by dodge tanking, but that's a bit unreliable. He's definitely fast enough though

(Considering I've seen someone solo Hoshido with Ryoma, haha)

[spoiler=Takumi]

Takumi: With sufficient Speed (and the eventual Raven Strike will solve his Player Phase accuracy problems) he'll definitely ORKO anything, maybe aside from the occasional General. His Durability isn't actually that good though

[spoiler=Camilla]

Camilla: High stats all round, her only problem is that unlike the other three, she doesn't have a "OP" weapon. Her Magic will quickly fall behind though, so I'd suggest reclassing her to Wyvern Lord...though which set of skills is superior if eh. I suppose you could have both.

[spoiler=Crimson]

Crimson: Same as Camilla, just slightly different.

[spoiler=Nishiki/Flannel]

Nishiki/Flannel: Nishiki is faster and has more Res, Flannel is stronger, has more HP, Strength and Defense. Both are kinda OP anyway, Beastbane, etc

[spoiler=Leo]

Leo: 1-2 Range magic, with good Defense and Res. His Defense and Speed will quickly start to fall behind though.

[spoiler=Effie]

Effie: "Completely busted". "Overwhelming" stats in HP/STR/SPD/DEF, though her base speed and Knight/General might want you to reclass her. I suppose she can also do well as a GK as well.

Arthur/Severa/Inigo: Actually fairly good all round. Not busted though, I think

Owain: Not actually that bad, but I suppose it might be his bases dragging him down?

[spoiler=Hinoka]

Hinoka: Reclass her to Lance Fighter and she will destroy everything. Oboro is similar, with slightly less stats

[spoiler=Mozume]

Mozume: Fairly broken in all aspects. Requires "a little" babying of course

[spoiler=Saizou]

Saizou: Slowest of the three ninjas, but also has the highest durability.

I could comment more but..eh who knows.

It also depends on personal preferences maybe.

Edited by CocoaGalaxy

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Which characters are garbage aside from Gunther?

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Which characters are garbage aside from Gunther?

I've heard that

Gunter isn't all that bad when he returns. I haven't looked into the logistics as I want to avoid spoilers, so I can't give you more than that.

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I wonder if different routes will have different tier lists...

From what I've heard Silas and Oboro are quite valued in Hoshido, while Zero and Mozume are great in Nohr.

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I'm hoping there will be different tier lists for various difficulties as well. Is there a character that needs "god tier" or whatever like Frederick did for Lunatic+?

Edited by Minischew

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I'm hoping there will be different tier lists for various difficulties as well. Is there a character that needs "god tier" or whatever like Frederick did for Lunatic+?

It also depends on which path you're playing

For example, Invisible Kingdom 6-8 is "practically" Avatar Emblem

Aside from that, the other routes give you sufficient characters that you don't really have that much trouble...though to be honest, the chapters before the decision is basically Avatar Emblem of sorts (except Chapter 4)

Prologue/Chap 1: Avatar Only

2-4 can be done without the Avatar if you really want.

Chap 5 is almost certainly unwinnable without the Avatar.

Chap 6 in Hoshido/Nohr is kind of the opposite, you have to go to lengths to try to have the Avatar kill everyone

Effie as I mentioned is unquestionably overpowered (in general anyway...high stats all round, sure she's slow but that's not really that important)

Edited by CocoaGalaxy

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My problem with Camilla (again, when theoryFEing) is that her strongest attacking stat is easily strength and she is unfortunate to not get a Prf axe which would counter at 1-2 range and have some other useful properties (at the very least, sufficient Mt). If you actually want to double with her while attacking at both ranges, you'll have to use tomes, which she just doesn't strike me as a good user of.

This is just my guesswork / experience with other FEs - a good character is one who ORKOs crowds of enemies with some manner of investment or choices made. Xander does that, tome users do that (though I question the ease of training them to a competent level while playing efficiently). I'm really not sure how much Camilla can do as a tome user, and whether sacrificing 1-2 range combat is permissible.

From my Lunatic playthrough of Nohr I'd say even though she doesn't have a personal weapon Camilla is the arguably best character for the vast majority of the campaign and is still an extremely strong character towards the end. Additionally I can't tell exactly EXP-wise she's not treated as being promoted at level 20 but probably quite a bit lower she gains quite a bit more EXP at level 4 promoted than Xander does so she'll have a level lead on most units.

She's not brilliant with tomes and her magic stat won't get that much higher but her starting magic is pretty decent and she's much faster than your other Magic users when she joins, I found she's fine with a tome up until the enemies start becoming promoted. While Xander could potentially double at 1-2 range with a physical weapon it's something that is rarely going to happen given his very low speed, he'll reach ~20 speed at level 20, his sword is really good but its ability to double is almost superfluous.

Also her personal skill in addition to her high move and mobility and the wyvern knight's Cut through and the Revenant's Knight Deadly Breath is also really good with good positioning. being able to deal AoE damage to enemies(Deadly breath), reposition herself and them(Cut Through) while being able to boosting adjacent characters attack by 3(while having a massive attack stat herself for dual strikes) is incredibly useful.

Edited by arvilino

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my azura + Arthur pairing was incredibly worthwile , i got them to S-rank with azura level 3 and levelled her as a fighter. halfway through she is a level 3 zerker with 30+ in the relevant stats Strength skill speed and pretty solid overall. even her HP are the highest out of all units i have levelled, maybe i just got lucky. but she hits like a truck

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To me the only worthwhile tier list would be a in a Lunatic No-Grind low-turn context.

At a glance Oboro is busted as a support unit, Takumi and Hinoka can join those ranks [Lance Fighter is kind of a nuts class], Effie is just busted, Silas is kinda crutch. Charlotte I think makes the best Zerker.

Pieri is deffers not trash. 1-2 range got gutted this game and you're laughing at a unit with access to Vengeance? Not mention Lifetaker? Both of which complement Killer Instinct? No Vantage, but Sol access through Luna *and* Charlotte [Luna is a better choice] and a near-obvious Galeforce candidate. I just checked her growths to make sure, those are solid too. The Str/Speed is great and Def could use a Dragonshield investment but its kind of borderline on good Vengeance damage/safety from death range. Skill is underwhelming but thankfully boosted by Killer Instinct. She kind of screams EP tank and can do a good job of wearing down units. [she and Effie will be my Oboro/Takumi replacements in Nohr.] This is isn't really the game for 1-2 range units to go off and murder everything on EP, though.

I hope I can make room for Benoit on my team so I can wrangle Pavise/Knight pair up bonuses onto her.

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