Lolcalization #TorrentialDownpour

[Reject]

What a silly movement.

Fire Emblem is a literal toy.

Like, people are getting upset and rioting over an actual toy not being made the way they want it to be.

People say that the "SJW"s are slacktivists, but I think that's a compliment compared to being a "video game ethics" activist.

Good lord.

[Ebony]

MRW this topic is still going

No. We must make it live forever. When it's on the brink of death, it gets revived.

like fire emblem

[Dualazi]

I don't honestly think it'll amount to much, but I support the movement on the hopes that someone in the relevant industries sees and notes it. That said, I'm gonna go ahead an join Xaos in saying that just because you personally may be okay with the changes, this in no way gives you the moral high ground over those who would have preferred differently. Maybe what annoys me the most about comments like that are that I originally joined SF at the beginning of all the censorship reveals and for the most part this was one of the most civil places to discuss it, and I'd hate to see that go by the wayside.

[Ebony]

I don't honestly think it'll amount to much, but I support the movement on the hopes that someone in the relevant industries sees and notes it. That said, I'm gonna go ahead an join Xaos in saying that just because you personally may be okay with the changes, this in no way gives you the moral high ground over those who would have preferred differently. Maybe what annoys me the most about comments like that are that I originally joined SF at the beginning of all the censorship reveals and for the most part this was one of the most civil places to discuss it, and I'd hate to see that go by the wayside.

I think complaints, as always, matter entirely on delivery.

Personally I don't care about the changes - I think most are for the better but I can see why people would get mad at changes such as... Beruka and Saizo. I'd rather take a "few bad" changes over several good ones.

I think the only ones I distinctly remember being legitmately miffed by are some of the name changes (Subaki... SUBAKI?) and the random "I'm an adult" lines.

Not from Elise, her I can have a mild stretch of disbelief to being in her early teens and therefore an "adult" in that time, but from Midori.

[Tribute]

My stance is that the changes by and large are for the better, in terms of commercial success with a wider/younger/dumber/etc audience. Which helps keep the series alive.

Hardcore people can just run the undub homebrew for the instances where they legitimately did "censor/cut" things in supports.

As for skinship, be honest, you know its fucking weird. And honestly it doesnt even feel cut, just removing the interaction to make it a softcore hentai clip when you walk into your room rather than having to rub the touchscreen blow gently

Also can someone explain the significant of the torrential downpour title?

Edited March 8, 2016 by Tribute

[Time the Crestfallen]

My stance is that no-one in this thread is going to have their opinion changed by anything that is said, nor does anyone have anything new to say on the topic and therefore, this conversation is pointless and we should all stop.

Also can someone explain the significant of the torrential downpour title?

There was a thing called Operation Rainfall which was trying to convince Nintendo to localise certain games. It's now Torrential Downpour because this isn't the kind of localisation they want. At least that's what I think anyway.

[Emblem Blade]

My stance is that no-one in this thread is going to have their opinion changed by anything that is said, nor does anyone have anything new to say on the topic and therefore, this conversation is pointless and we should all stop.

There was a thing called Operation Rainfall which was trying to convince Nintendo to localise certain games. It's now Torrential Downpour because this isn't the kind of localisation they want. At least that's what I think anyway.

Which is exactly should happen if no one will be agreeing with anyone but themselves.

[saisymbolic]

I think the only ones I distinctly remember being legitmately miffed by are some of the name changes (Subaki... SUBAKI?) and the random "I'm an adult" lines.

Please don't bring that up. I get triggered every damn time.

How are you going to change the name but give it the same meaning? Subaki does not mean camellia. Tsubaki means camellia. Damn it, Treehouse. Damn it.

As for me, I have been through too much in regards to localization over the past many years to complain. While I don't judge people for standing up for the injustices in regards to localization, I can't help but think of all the other games that have been done worse than Fates and all the energy is just gets sucked out of me.

I'm still getting over shit like the Dreamcast game Project Justice getting a whole mini game cut out and the U.S. not getting Fatal Frame 4 and The Great Ace Attorney.

*shudder*

I'm just an old soldier, who got an arrow to the knee during the war on localization...

[NekoKnight]

MRW this topic is still going

Serenes Sins

Bumping a thread you want to die. *ding*

[Topaz Light]

Honestly the only thing I'm really annoyed about is that a lot of the name changes seem egregious and unnecessary, especially the Hoshidan characters', and the name overlap with earlier games (Selena, Arthur, Lloyd, Leo). And I guess, as funny as what they replaced it with is, the essential removal of Saizo and Beruka's C support is a bit annoying.

Beyond that, though, I have a really hard time caring, and an even harder time being upset. The only thing well and truly cut was something I honestly prefer to not have in the game, and everything else is just... not a big deal. For me, at least.

And, as much as I hate to provide "Censorship Apologist Bingo" fodder, it really is true that what boycotting does in practice is tell the company "People don't want this product at all." It's a good thing these Torrential Downpourers seem to love their "true to the original" fan translations, since all their movement could really accomplish is taking everyone back to a point where they're once again forced to rely on fan translations for Fire Emblem.

[ARGHETH]

Serenes Sins

Bumping a thread you want to die. *ding*

Umm...

He posted it ten minutes later. I'm 90% sure that's not considered bumping.

[The DanMan]

I don't support this Torrential Downpour movement, but I am rather unhappy with a lot of the localization changes. I could write a long essay about what the changes are and why it is an issue, but that's not really what's happening in this thread anyway.

In the end I just imported a Japanese copy. The more I see of the localization, the less I like it, and the more happy I am that I imported. The short term problem with Fates is solved.

I'm actually disappointed that people here are being so dismissive of the issue though. I can understand if the changes don't bother you, or you think they are too trivial to get worked up about. But:

Just because these things don't matter to you, doesn't mean that they doesn't matter to others.

I see a lot of people speaking down about people who dislike the localization. How dare they care about something you don't care about. How dare they see a problem where you don't. If they don't like certain aspects of the localization, they have every right to spread awareness and raise an outcry so that future localizations may be better. Instead of just not liking something, they try to do something about it. How dare they. (/sarcasm).

If you don't care about the changes, or they don't bother you, that's fine.

But talking down on people for caring, for taking issue, for caring about the integrity of the original work and wanting the story and characters that the Japanese writers at Intelligent Systems wrote, not the ones that some localizers at Treehouse wrote, that bothers me.

It may be a done deal with Fates, but I hope that future games don't get this kind of censorship and significant changes and errors like the Fates localization did.

Now I've heard that some of these Downpour people being very mean and nasty to others, I don't support that in any way. That being said, I've seen people who support the localization be just as bad.

I do really enjoy the Japanese version of Fates. It is a great game. I just wish that the English version didn't have so much changed with the localization. I don't mean a direct translation, some changes may be necessary or helpful, but just that so much of the character and meaning the original authors of the Japanese version intended has been lost or changed and that's not what I wanted.

That's fine.

The thing is, many have crossed the line into "the whole localization is shit and any who's okay with it want to force-feed people shit". They're conflating their own personal opinions and making themselves into irate "activists".

Plus, a lot of the changes are simply overblown; no, Hisame and Effie haven't been rewritten. Their event quotes and My Room lines are different, but their supports are largely intact. The Corrin/Sakura support was also brought up; it went from longer and boring to shorter and marginally less boring. I've seen quite a few people actually say that they envy the localized My Room, as petting got boring quickly in the Japanese version.

Also, I'd like to pose this question to you: how much of the "meaning" in the game do you think was actually intentional? A lot of the time, people read into things and draw their own conclusion that may or may not have been the one intended. For FE14, I'm fairly sure there weren't any major conclusions meant to be drawn about anything; the story's extremely bad and the characters are designed and one-note gimmicks and fetish appeal with any actual depth being at best not part of the initial plan and at worse completely accidental.

I also feel like the "artistic integrity" argument falls flat on its face in situations such as this, where the actual "artists" themselves were split in opinion and seemed to have wanted to make two different products.

[Time the Crestfallen]

Serenes Sins

Bumping a thread you want to die. *ding*

The more people post in this, the more I'm gonna implore them to stop. I am this close to losing it man!

Anyway, can we let it rest now? Seriously, talking about the localisation at this stage is almost as pointless as making another thread about Conquest's story. The lines were drawn and we all explicitly stated where we stand on the subject back when the Kotaku debacle started. No-ones opinion is going to change here and discussing the localisation at this point is only creating more negativity in a thread that has been filled with so much negative energy over the last year I gain 2d4 negative levels every time I log on.

I mean, can we at least wait until the EU release comes out? I'm sure there will be at least some nice, controversial changes for us to complain about.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Phillius

[Jave]

Also, I'd like to pose this question to you: how much of the "meaning" in the game do you think was actually intentional? A lot of the time, people read into things and draw their own conclusion that may or may not have been the one intended. For FE14, I'm fairly sure there weren't any major conclusions meant to be drawn about anything; the story's extremely bad and the characters are designed and one-note gimmicks and fetish appeal with any actual depth being at best not part of the initial plan and at worse completely accidental.

I also feel like the "artistic integrity" argument falls flat on its face in situations such as this, where the actual "artists" themselves were split in opinion and seemed to have wanted to make two different products.

As someone who feels this game has some of the best supports written in the series, I feel that comments like these do a HUGE disservice to the game. I can agree with a lot of the flaws in the main plot (on all routes), but the overall character development I felt was a major step up from almost every other game in the series.

[The DanMan]

As someone who feels this game has some of the best supports written in the series, I feel that comments like these do a HUGE disservice to the game. I can agree with a lot of the flaws in the main plot (on all routes), but the overall character development I felt was a major step up from almost every other game in the series.

I'm not saying they don't have depth; I'm saying that making believable characters wasn't the main goal, and that was instead making characters to be properly whored out for the "dating sim" aspects.

We already know Leo and Takumi were made first and foremost for female sex appeal, as well as the art director/head artist/others making jokes about Camilla's breasts; that would seem to show a general lack of respect for the characters. Couple that with the gimmickiness of many, and hence my conclusion was drawn.

[NekoKnight]

The more people post in this, the more I'm gonna implore them to stop. I am this close to losing it man!

Anyway, can we let it rest now? Seriously, talking about the localisation at this stage is almost as pointless as making another thread about Conquest's story. The lines were drawn and we all explicitly stated where we stand on the subject back when the Kotaku debacle started. No-ones opinion is going to change here and discussing the localisation at this point is only creating more negativity in a thread that has been filled with so much negative energy over the last year I gain 2d4 negative levels every time I log on.

I mean, can we at least wait until the EU release comes out? I'm sure there will be at least some nice, controversial changes for us to complain about.

Serenes Sins

Telling people to stop discussing topics in a discussion forum. *ding*

I think it's fine. The conversation here is pretty civil.

[Jave]

I'm not saying they don't have depth; I'm saying that making believable characters wasn't the main goal, and that was instead making characters to be properly whored out for the "dating sim" aspects.

We already know Leo and Takumi were made first and foremost for female sex appeal, as well as the art director/head artist/others making jokes about Camilla's breasts; that would seem to show a general lack of respect for the characters. Couple that with the gimmickiness of many, and hence my conclusion was drawn.

I disagree on characters being designed for sex appeal (which I won't deny is the case with some characters here) denotes lack of respect from the creators. This is also an argument that can go back to the early games in the series, where a lot of characters were simply introduced with a single line of dialogue and then forgotten from the plot forever, which to me shows a far larger lack of respect than what the newer games are doing. Camilla may have been designed for sex appeal, but at least I feel I can like her character based on more than just looks, since her character development is actually quite good.

Also, I don't like referring to character traits as "gimmicks". It's one of those words I feel gets thrown around so much it has basically lost all meaning. Call it a trait, a quality, a characteristic, or a part of his/her personality, but a "gimmick"? What does that even mean? (Serious question).

[Water Mage]

I've actually been in contact with one of the leaders of #TorrentialDownpoar via KnowYourMeme's Fire Emblem Fates Localization Controversy page. They do bring up some valid points, but it's usually presented in such a negative way.

I'm one of the localization defenders on that site.

Edit:

Yep, that's him. I've seen most of those images. Like I said, he brings some valid points, like the typos. It's just so negative, and some of his points are major stretches, such as the "Skinship refrences".

Sorry to bring up a post from the first page of this thread but after you said this, I went to Know Your Meme to see how things were.

And my god, were the people there salty.

Seriously, that's way to much salt, it's like they never played a localized game before.

Especially that Liveandsound guy, I've never seen a saltier guy than him. It's borderline irrational. Makes me wonder how he would react to Radiant Dawn's localization.

Is the rest of the internet just as bad as these guys, when it comes to Fates's localization?

[Jave]

Is the rest of the internet just as bad as these guys, when it comes to Fates's localization?

Probably not. Most of the sites I've visited that are playing and discussing the game are simply enjoying it for what it is.

[Water Mage]

I'm just worried that this will give the FE fandom a bad name.

I mean, I know it's already rather infamous, but this is in a whole new level.

They may be a loud minority, but they're being very, very loud.

[The DanMan]

I disagree on characters being designed for sex appeal (which I won't deny is the case with some characters here) denotes lack of respect from the creators. This is also an argument that can go back to the early games in the series, where a lot of characters were simply introduced with a single line of dialogue and then forgotten from the plot forever, which to me shows a far larger lack of respect than what the newer games are doing. Camilla may have been designed for sex appeal, but at least I feel I can like her character based on more than just looks, since her character development is actually quite good.

Also, I don't like referring to character traits as "gimmicks". It's one of those words I feel gets thrown around so much it has basically lost all meaning. Call it a trait, a quality, a characteristic, or a part of his/her personality, but a "gimmick"? What does that even mean? (Serious question).

At the beginning of the series, "characters" weren't meant to be characters; they were meant to be disposable units.

What character development does Camilla have? She's still a yandere; just with plainer traits mixed in throughout supports.

A gimmick is a key point of something meant to attract attention, be it a heavily advertised feature on a product or a single over-exaggerated personality trait on a character.

Edited March 8, 2016 by The DanMan

[Jave]

At the beginning of the series, "characters" weren't meant to be characters; they were meant to be disposable units.

What character development does Camilla have? She's still a yandere; just with plainer traits mixed in throughout supports.

A gimmick is a key point of something meant to attract attention, be it a heavily advertised feature on a product or a single over-exaggerated personality trait on a character.

1.- That still shows lack of respect. If that's the intention, why even make them unique named units? Might as well make them generic units. It's a lot worse to feel apathetic towards a character than to hate said character.

2.- I'm mostly referring to things about her that I can like that don't have to do with her looks. I do find her doting personality quite cute in a sense, and while I can understand that some might find her traits unlikable or even creepy, they didn't bother me much in the long run.

3.- I'd say the only character in the whole series that fits such a description is Kellam, whose character trait is pretty much blown out of proportion since it's brought up in nearly every scene he's in. I do think a lot of characters (and not just in Awakening and Fates) have a lot of marked traits that stand out, but I wouldn't say many of those are over-exaggerated, but simply it's how the characters are and make them identify as unique.

[maybe]

3.- I'd say the only character in the whole series that fits such a description is Kellam, whose character trait is pretty much blown out of proportion since it's brought up in nearly every scene he's in. I do think a lot of characters (and not just in Awakening and Fates) have a lot of marked traits that stand out, but I wouldn't say many of those are over-exaggerated, but simply it's how the characters are and make them identify as unique.

well, I feel like for characters to have gimmicks, it doesn't have to take over their entire character, but is constantly brought up, often to the point of being annoying

probably the best example in the series is ilyana, where every single time she appears some mention of food or hunger happens

a lot of fire emblem games have characters like these but you can't deny that they go pretty overboard with them sometimes

like, in awakening one support i remember finding generally really bad was gaius and panne's

panne talks about something sweet, and gaius wants to get it, so they spend 3 supports with gaius trying to get some candy off a tree and then get married

i don't have a problem with adding character traits like these when they're charming or funny, but it just gets obnoxious when i expect an interesting conversation and instead get... this

[Tryhard]

The more people post in this, the more I'm gonna implore them to stop. I am this close to losing it man!

Anyway, can we let it rest now? Seriously, talking about the localisation at this stage is almost as pointless as making another thread about Conquest's story. The lines were drawn and we all explicitly stated where we stand on the subject back when the Kotaku debacle started. No-ones opinion is going to change here and discussing the localisation at this point is only creating more negativity in a thread that has been filled with so much negative energy over the last year I gain 2d4 negative levels every time I log on.

you are coming back to this topic to post

you are literally hitting yourself man, stop that

though i'm not going to lie, somehow some people in this topic manage to be more obnoxious and childish then the people supporting whatever this is

i don't know how you managed that, but jeez.

[The DanMan]

you are coming back to this topic to post

you are literally hitting yourself man, stop that

though i'm not going to lie, somehow some people in this topic manage to be more obnoxious and childish then the people supporting whatever this is

i don't know how you managed that, but jeez.

He's partially joking, you know. I also don't really see anybody being particularly "obnoxious" or "childish" at all in here (unless purely stating an opinion you don't agree with counts as such).

I'm also inclined to agree with Phillius (though hoping this topic will die while simultaneously posting in it won't help things): talking about the localization is beating a dead horse at this point. People have clearly defined opinions on the matter and nothing productive can come out of further discussion.

Nevertheless, the topic was made. And fortunately, there doesn't appear to be another shitstorm around it.