Most annoying/brutal chapters in each route?

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

I'm actually okay with Forrest's paralogue. The stealth there makes a lot more sense, because A) no patrols and B) no enemies are isolated, so their allies can see/hear a kill. Also, the map design is a lot more fun than that Rev chapter. Enjoyed forming the pincer.

[Thor Odinson]

Wait, how do you even stealth Forrest's chapter? I did it by just going all out offense from the back (where the paladins are) and wiped the enemies really fast. Never actually had trouble, but there's a more stealthy solution??

[Emblem Blade]

Wait, how do you even stealth Forrest's chapter? I did it by just going all out offense from the back (where the paladins are) and wiped the enemies really fast. Never actually had trouble, but there's a more stealthy solution??

Leo kind of lampshades the 'Stealth' Segment in that you shouldn't attack any enemies until you are dead close to Forrest's location. Issue is that the enemy AI might make them battle you and if an enemy battles you (either you or they initiate the fight), then the alarm sounds off. If you try to stave/rod an enemy, alarm goes off that way as well. I got up to my third turn without sounding the alarm then I was forced to crush every single enemy bar the boss until I was sure no enemy could reach Forrest. Not as frustrating as Revelations Chapter 24 which if the enemy can you see while you can see them, they sound off the alarm just like that, that doesn't happen thankfully in Forrest's Paralogue or here comes the executioner.

[Thor Odinson]

I mean, so there's no way to full-stealth like there is in 24--is what I'm getting at. I go in through the back always so it's super close to the door and I can always kill the executioner all the time--I had full team at the back door when I did it on Conquest with main party only (since I don't have enough firepower to split), and a pincer when I did it with my full replicate revelation postgame team.

I was wondering if there's something like, idk, boots that i missed out on. Again.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Thor Odinson

[joshcja]

I mean, so there's no way to full-stealth like there is in 24--is what I'm getting at. I go in through the back always so it's super close to the door and I can always kill the executioner all the time--I had full team at the back door when I did it on Conquest with main party only (since I don't have enough firepower to split), and a pincer when I did it with my full replicate revelation postgame team.

I was wondering if there's something like, idk, boots that i missed out on. Again.

You can "sneak" around the back and make life harder on yourself, because seriously that back door has ugly enemy movement.

Or you can slam down the mid with nos, and just race the zerker that takes like 10 fucking turns to get to Forrest.

Forrest's chapter is kinda like Ophelia's in that it just assumes you have an over leveled Nostank.

Edited April 11, 2016 by joshcja

[Emblem Blade]

I mean, so there's no way to full-stealth like there is in 24--is what I'm getting at. I go in through the back always so it's super close to the door and I can always kill the executioner all the time--I had full team at the back door when I did it on Conquest with main party only (since I don't have enough firepower to split), and a pincer when I did it with my full replicate revelation postgame team.

I was wondering if there's something like, idk, boots that i missed out on. Again.

I couldn't stealth at all in my Conquest Runs, mostly because I kept forgetting to keep my units out of the enemies attack range. I definitely didn't bother fully in Revelations because I can't stand trying to 'Stealth' win an objective after Chapter 24's annoying Scouts kept making the objective for Stealth completely hard. Stealth'ing the Paralogue means: A) Avoid fighting every enemy not named the boss. B) Getting to the boss without any enemy being able to fight you. C) You need to KO the boss the moment you reach him since alarm goes off the moment any battle against any of the enemies ends (even if you tried to staff/rod them instead). Again, the AI really wants to prevent you from doing any 'Stealth' in the Paralogue.

No reward for 'Stealth'ing' Forrest's Paralogue. Even then if you tried to do so you would need to avoid every other enemy and only target the boss with that if you tried to do so and KO the boss on the same turn (which I'll find easy once Warp comes out as Rescue Staff + Warp = OP on anything labeling 'Seize' or 'Defeat the boss' for Chapter/Paralogue/Xenologue descriptions).

Edited April 11, 2016 by Emblem Blade

[Thor Odinson]

Galeforce might be doable, maybe. If not, rescue/gale combo. w/e I used the chapter for exp like I usually do, as long as I didn't lose something really cool like boots it's not a big deal haha

You can "sneak" around the back and make life harder on yourself, because seriously that back door has ugly enemy movement.

Or you can slam down the mid with nos, and just race the zerker that takes like 10 fucking turns to get to Forrest.

Forrest's chapter is kinda like Ophelia's in that it just assumes you have an over leveled Nostank.

Except the back route wasn't hard and CQ doesn't assume any specific build because it'd be awful design if it did

What do you think this is, awakening?

Edited April 11, 2016 by Thor Odinson

[joshcja]

Except the back route wasn't hard and CQ doesn't assume anything because it'd be awful design if it did

What do you think this is, awakening?

The map does have a pretty absurd amount of low res units that sit just inside Sorc!Leo's Nos ORKO range with pairup and like 6 magic tiles that you will hit perfectly off of 6 move if you go up the mid. Kinda like Ophelia's map has 2 forts placed right on choke points with units perfectly curved for Odins nos 2rko range and Ophelia's vantage orko range with 6 move hitting the forts exactly on cycle.

I'm not even saying the back route is hard, just that slamming down the middle with nos is noticeably easier and honestly feels "intended" since if leo takes max move every round up the mid he will beat the locktouch zerker to Forrest by exactly one turn.

As for IS assuming things in mapmaking they honestly do it all the time, they give you alternate paths out but there really is a clear "intended" path on CQ lunatic. A lot of maps are straight up segmented into "hey look what unit is absolutely perfect here" sections.

A pretty good example is ch10 conquest where the game parks the fire orb, by a large group of units you will have WTA on with tomes, gives you magic tile movement for 5 spaces, and puts a mini boss who has non tome counter and high non heartseeker evasion on the left, a large group of one siege tick handaxe orko's @ Wta and average growths on Arthur by the breakable wall, and a group of spears and bows placed for once dance on beruka+selena pairup where she noticeably has to move into tile perfect range the turn before to play dodge the peg regardless of the balistae she's helping out.

It's still set up with a large degree of player freedom but the game is actually set up tile perfect for "intended" routes on almost every chapter. (Another example of a tile perfect intended route is xander vs enfeeble adventurer on his join. Camilia is tile perfect to fight Hinoka on ch 11)

The level of detail on this is part of what makes conquest such a fantastic game to play...and is part of why I actively dislike using Effie, she has no tile mapping at all past ch7 which makes her feel suuuuper clunky.

It's a really well made game. I play for efficiency a lot and dabble in LTC on Conquest route and trust me the "intended" route becomes super noticeable in that setting.

Edited April 11, 2016 by joshcja

[Emblem Blade]

The map does have a pretty absurd amount of low res units that sit just inside Sorc!Leo's Nos ORKO range with pairup and like 6 magic tiles that you will hit perfectly off of 6 move if you go up the mid. Kinda like Ophelia's map has 2 forts placed right on choke points with units perfectly curved for Odins nos 2rko range and Ophelia's vantage orko range with 6 move hitting the forts exactly on cycle.

I'm not even saying the back route is hard, just that slamming down the middle with nos is noticeably easier.

I personally just send Kamui or one of their children with a defensive skill set down the center of the building to deal with all those annoying Heroes/Sorcerers. The 'Zerkers aren't that hard. Normally Kamui's child runs Renewal (can't tank forever), Vantage (possible OTKOs against enemies on Enemy Phase coming from the child), RH/Aether (need something to defeat those Generals with Wary Fighter in one go), Tomebreaker (I hate you Sorcerers) and Axebreaker (no crits or hits for you 'Zerkers). Ophelia's Chapter is simple (probably because Odin at that point is just broken but not OP), capturing that boss (if you try) is something else if the character of yours who is fighting him OTKO the boss on Enemy Phase.

[Thor Odinson]

Or you can just stop insisting your way to do it is the one superior way all the time. It's getting really annoying.

I prefer finding more general solutions that more broad numbers of team compositions can solve rather than using very specific setups. Sometimes it's unavoidable--like Shiro's paralogue without Rescue staff require a bit of specific setup, but I'm pretty sure my dual galeforce setup is also not the only solution and possibly not even the best as far as no rescue goes--but when it's not necessary, I dislike solutions that require specific builds.

[Emblem Blade]

Or you can just stop insisting your way to do it is the one superior way all the time. It's getting really annoying.

I prefer finding more general solutions that more broad numbers of team compositions can solve rather than using very specific setups. Sometimes it's unavoidable--like Shiro's paralogue without Rescue staff require a bit of specific setup, but I'm pretty sure my dual galeforce setup is also not the only solution and possibly not even the best as far as no rescue goes--but when it's not necessary, I dislike solutions that require specific builds.

None of us are saying that our ways of doing chapters are better than others, if we are, where are we saying that? At most we're just mentioning some of our most effective methods.

If one wants to find more 'general' solutions on units being viable, then it helps to list the units that one wants to use. Some methods are fairly straightforward such as spamming Rescue + Galeforce on 'Seize' and 'Defeat the boss' chapter objectives or for those where you want to save and recruit certain characters in said chapter. Others aren't so simple without players getting 'picky' on how do perform the task given at hand. In regards to chapters where the game says anything along 'avoid confronting the enemies until 'xxxxxx' is met' such as Forrest's Paralogue and Revelations Chapter 24 (which were mentioned earlier), the tactics used vary by player. In 'general' strategies that any player can do with little issues overall:

*Blitzkrieg/Zerg Rush: Just have all your units under your command rush every single opposition in your way and kill everything that isn't your ally. This is sem-useful for trying to recruit allies who are quite a ways away from you and move on their turn (and possibly get KO'd by the enemies too early before you reach them). Anything with 'Seize', 'Route all enemies' or 'Defeat the boss' tend to have this as the common result for a plan (Conquest says otherwise on some chapters).

*Turtling: I could say that this is also how I would rephrase the method, "Wear down enemy opposition by attacking them and healing your units on each of your turns" is. Some Chapters would recommend this depending on the path and difficulty taken, although you can work around this.

*Stall: Chapters with the 'Defend for 'xxxxx' turns' or just 'Defend' are this as enemy reinforcements will keep appearing in random numbers whenever your turn ends and/or when their turn starts.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Emblem Blade

[Thor Odinson]

That wasn't targetted towards you. You just posted in the middle of my response to joshcja. I apologise for the confusion.

It's about the attitude and condescending tone than anything.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Thor Odinson

[maninbluejumpsuit]

Haven't done all paralogues yet, but as for routes, conquest 10 and 20 stuck out for me. 10 was a massive headache on the last few turns, though I got better at it in subsequent playthroughs.

Chapter 20... is one of those maps you just look at, see the gimmick, the terrain, and the number of flying units, and don't even want to bother.

Also chapter 26, and I think it was CH23 conquest where you face takumi the second time? Hate those chapters for the enemy zergfests. Feels mandatory to have physical/magical tanks who can kill whatever attacks them in retaliation, and turns those units into exp sponges. At that point, it was my female avatar as a dread fighter with forged iron dagger, and unity + dragon fang + aether doing the carrying weeks ago. Would'ave worked better if paired with jakob, and if I thought to get vantage as extra insurance, but still worked as intended

Edited April 11, 2016 by maninbluejumpsuit

[Emblem Blade]

That wasn't targetted towards you. You just posted in the middle of my response to joshcja. I apologise for the confusion.

It's about the attitude and condescending tone than anything.

That's ok, it's understandable when people cut-in and others get confused when they think that they're the target when it isn't them. It's not your fault, I thought that you were finished posting at the moment so I tried to take that advantage to post my response not realizing that you weren't finished.

We can't physically hear what others say when it comes down to opinions, so on anything like Forums where only text messages show up, it is hard to tell if anyone is being completely honest or not. I'm guilty when it comes down to understanding others clearly since I can't always translate what others are trying to tell me and it tends to lead to chain arguments as nothing can get solved properly.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Emblem Blade

[joshcja]

That wasn't targetted towards you. You just posted in the middle of my response to joshcja. I apologise for the confusion.

It's about the attitude and condescending tone than anything.

Apologies, never meant to imply in any way that there is only one path through what is effectively a giant sandbox of a game.

As for the shit I keep posting being the best... oh hell no a lot of it is inefficient as hell, it just happens to reduce conquest from a fun yet challenging game to... an absolutely mindless end turn machine, I don't even use most of it because it kills any fun I would have. Fuck the repetition of "get off your horses, use nos, use (insert unit)" annoys me, a lot, so yeah I get where you're coming from. Frankly I'm glad enough folks know about the bullshit cheese strat's so I can stop spamming that shit forever and focus on fun crack builds.

In this case I wasn't even plugging "such nos wow". I just think it's really cool that IS actually built Forrest's paralouge in a way where Leo is set up tile prefect to Rambo in and save his kid. It's the ez cheezy solution sure, but it's also one of my favorite pieces of map design in this game. IS went to a lot of effort setting up tile counts for... some generally awesome things like boss dialouge, parent rescuing, and most forced deployments really intuitive to use or discover. The most ridiculous example being Shura on ch17, where if you missed the other pickers he just winds up naturally talking to the big boss a surprising amount of the time.

Edited April 11, 2016 by joshcja

[Thor Odinson]

's cool. I do enjoy doing inefficient shit that ends up hilarious--so I can definitely see the appeal.

[Emblem Blade]

's cool. I do enjoy doing inefficient shit that ends up hilarious--so I can definitely see the appeal.

I tried one 'method' in every chapter/paralogue up to date (not Xenologues) where my patience and battle plans are placed to the test. While it was very funny, I ended up somewhat regretting it during the endgame.

Ok, I'll explain what I did so it makes some more sense:

On each of my Lunatic Runs on each path (I only do one Lunatic Run per path/game unless I'm given more ideas to try on Lunatic Runs) I did...

*E-Rank Weapons that can't crit or proc offensive trigger skills.

*Base Skills only:

**No logbook or other Players My Castles for skill help

**Base Skills are those that characters learn from their own classes so only Heart Seals are permitted.

*Characters can't use Seals that allow access to different classes from other characters, this means that characters can only reclass to classes that they come with naturally (ie Niles has Adventurer, Bow Knight, Sorcerer and Dark Knight).

*No Dual Strikes on bosses, can't pair-up.

*Can't smith weapons.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Emblem Blade

[Thor Odinson]

I tried one 'method' in every chapter/paralogue up to date (not Xenologues) where my patience and battle plans are placed to the test. While it was very funny, I ended up somewhat regretting it during the endgame.

Conquest endgame can just go suck a dick, I should really work on that generalized dual rescue solution more but I don't have the time argh

I want to do some less conventional builds at some point, though, like Mag Chieftain x Izana, or something

[Zerosabers]

Conquest Chapter 19, all I have to say is screw the fox people. I'm going to purge the subhumans

[Shadow Mir]

^Too evasive? Or... Is it something else?

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

The hit rates in Conquest were a big source of frustration for me. Sure, the map design is great, and I need a lot of strategy to get through, but come on, if nothing has more than a 60% hit rate, then none of my plans really matter, do they? Especially true in later chapters with all the Jounins.

In Conquest 18 (Zola), someone missed an attack (~80% hit rate), and was in danger of getting killed next turn. Since there was only one enemy (a Paladin), I decided to send Owain to clean up; he missed (~80% again). I sighed, then decided to use Freeze on the enemy, since he only had a 1 range weapon and no one was in his reach. I still remember that it was an 82% hit rate for the staff. It missed. And now Elise was in range.

L R Start

Edited April 13, 2016 by SatsumaFSoysoy

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Chapter 19 is one of those that would be somewhat cool if they did think off the approach you can do with the map

Seriously they give you a completely unbeatable character with insane tankiness AND Dracoknight reclass with D Lance rank. The only way the game can be more blatant about it is if before the map begin, Xander says "hey i can solo this chapter at base stats, just give me 4000 gold investment" and he did

[joshcja]

Chapter 19 is one of those that would be somewhat cool if they did think off the approach you can do with the map

Seriously they give you a completely unbeatable character with insane tankiness AND Dracoknight reclass with D Lance rank. The only way the game can be more blatant about it is if before the map begin, Xander says "hey i can solo this chapter at base stats, just give me 4000 gold investment" and he did

But then xander has to get off his horse!!!

(Inb4 nobody detects the sarcasm)

Edited April 13, 2016 by joshcja

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Pretty sure Xander still ohko everything except Kaden?

I used Silas back in my first run and he ohko the map iirc

EDIT: Lmao i get it

Edited April 13, 2016 by JSND

[Thor Odinson]

I got the draco xander solution to that chapter on accident actually

I just made him a draco to grab swordbreaker because i wanted him and ryoma to fight each other on the opposite routes for /reasons/ and he has a pretty real chance of death (He was 20/19 when I got to chapter 25 and man, if he didn't have swordbreaker so many things could've gone wrong) if he tried to take Ryoma without guard stance and

It'd ruin the poeticness of a true duel if I gave him a pairup

and then it just happened to be chapter 19 and his flight was actually super clutch for 20 and 21 too

10/10 decision, me