Hydra vs Grima, Who is Canonically Stronger?

[Thane]

Hydra (Anankos) had only around half his power at that point though, since his human and dragon half split.

Would he really be impressed at Naga's power though if he was as strong or stronger than her? Wouldn't he have said something along the lines of "unfortunately, I can't do that since I'm only at half my power" instead?

Edited May 29, 2016 by Thane

[B.Leu]

Hydra is a mad crybaby, while Grima is a dragon that is destined to bring the apocalypse I repeat, Grima, is the freaking harbinger of the apocalypse.

There's not even a competition, Grima is a work of art and power in every way compared to Hydra.

Edited May 29, 2016 by B.Leu

[Xenomata]

Well Grima has the brains to equip more skills than Dragonskin, so even if Anankos' stats were balanced out to match Grima...

[Roflolxp54]

Well Grima has the brains to equip more skills than Dragonskin, so even if Anankos' stats were balanced out to match Grima...

Though Grima does apparently have adequacy issues in the Future Past 3 map in Lunatic+ difficulty (lolwut Rightful God with no skills that get a boost from it). Either that or he doesn't give a crap since he's got Pavise+, Aegis+, and Hawkeye on top of Dragonskin.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Roflolxp54

[Guardian]

Depends...

Hydra: Underground, waiting to take in Garon to become at full power again, nobody would basically know he existed if Revelations didn't exist.

Grima: Floats in the middle of the ocean, and has caused no virtual damage to any of the nearby areas after being brought back to power.

I'd say Hydra, mostly because of his curroption and control of Lillith, his daughter.

[Sentacotus]

Apotheosis Anna is way stronger than Hydra and Grima imo. o3o

But actually...Anna would win lol

Somebody make a death battle, quickly.

Might as well throw in this guy into the mix too...

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/fairytail/images/a/ad/Acnologia_arrives.png/revision/latest?cb=20151031033423

[Abvora]

Anankos has better feats of power (time/space travel with ease, creating black holes, restoring a dead kingdom to life from another universe) compared to Grima. Additionally, people forget that according to lore, the Yato is the only thing that can kill Anankos, like Robin is the only one who can kill Grima; he wouldn't lose "because he can't kill him" since Grima can't kill him either. Between the two he seems smarter, since Grima apparently could have revived himself all along but didn't because??? while Anankos was actually setting the stage to manipulate humans into a war. He's also a better character than Grima.

So Anankos gets my vote.

[Fateborn]

To be fair, for all the hates on Grima is somewhat undeserving, his character isn't even developed, all we know about him is that he just wanna destroy the damn world and that the First Exalt sealed him.

That's literally it. What drove him to desire the world's destruction? What defined him? How did the First Exalt gain victory over this being of absolute destruction? Why is Naga's power the exact same level as Grima's power? Why is he a Earth Dragon when he's clearly more than that?

In my own opinion tho Grima wins.

Anankos can be slayed by anyone if they tried hard enough.

Grima has power to resurrect himself every time as long as he's not slain by his own host (or his mirror), as long as evil exist, he exist.

Anankos was driven mad because of him being a dragon, that caused his power to be somewhat weaker as result because a mad dog is easier to put down.

While Grima is extremely calculating and devious.

Grima nearly destroyed the world at the time of First Exalt's era.

Anankos did rat ass.

Anankos's downfall was result of his own child.

Grima's downfall was result of his own carelessness. (Travelling back to the past caused Robin to lose memories and gained vague memories of the timeline Alt Grima came from. That alone was fatal for Grima.)

Naga could not kill Grima because doing so would result Naga's death as well.

Anankos has no equal to counteract himself.

I'm just pulling random things at this point, but majority of these Grima wins.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Fateborn

[Man of Many Faces]

Would he really be impressed at Naga's power though if he was as strong or stronger than her? Wouldn't he have said something along the lines of "unfortunately, I can't do that since I'm only at half my power" instead?

That's a good point.

[TheWerdna]

Its really hard to tell to be honest, as both havr vaguely defined powers and abilities.

Grima

Pros:

- Cannot be killed by anyone except Robin, though his physical form can be destroyed and spirit sealed away using Falchion and the Fire Emblem.

- Comparable power to Naga.

- Much bigger than Anankos

- Activly does more in his respective game

- Has actually won in timeless addressed in the main game.

- Held in check due to mutually assured destruction situation with Naga, something Anankos does not have (this could be considered a con, but it also implies more power due to comparable feats when being constrained to some extent)

Cons

- Needs a mortal vessel to return following the event of his physical body being killed and spirit sealed

- Doesn't understand how time travel works

- Literally could have just won if he stayes in the future, instead went back in time and got himself killed.

Anankos

Pros

- Can destroy timelines.

- Multiverse/Time manipulation powers comparable to Naga

- Appears to be roughlty the equivelent entity to Naga for the Fates world.

- Invisible Soldiers are strictly better than Risen due to being reusable no matter how many times you kill them and retraining more of their intelligence

Cons

- His good half seems to indicate Naga is much stronger than him. Unclear how strong he is at full powrr though.

- Can be activly killed for good without any special circumstances as long as you can hurt him.

- Cannot survive destruction of his physical form.

- Lost to a significantly worse protagonist. Yes, I am using "lost to freaken Cornbread" as a con.

- Only won in a DLC whose existance was so pointless and so full of plotholes I am hesitant to even consider its existance.

I give Grima the edge due to simply being harder to kill for good.

Anankos has better feats of power (time/space travel with ease, creating black holes, restoring a dead kingdom to life from another universe) compared to Grima. Additionally, people forget that according to lore, the Yato is the only thing that can kill Anankos, like Robin is the only one who can kill Grima; he wouldn't lose "because he can't kill him" since Grima can't kill him either. Between the two he seems smarter, since Grima apparently could have revived himself all along but didn't because??? while Anankos was actually setting the stage to manipulate humans into a war. He's also a better character than Grima.

So Anankos gets my vote.

Anankos can also be killed by the 4th verse of the song, and Yato can be used by more people. So Anankos can be killed in more ways than Grima.

Would he really be impressed at Naga's power though if he was as strong or stronger than her? Wouldn't he have said something along the lines of "unfortunately, I can't do that since I'm only at half my power" instead?

This

Edited May 31, 2016 by TheWerdna

[DarkMaster]

I would say Anankos is stronger.

[Abvora]

Anankos can also be killed by the 4th verse of the song, and Yato can be used by more people. So Anankos can be killed in more ways than Grima.

The 4th verse that only Vallite royals can sing, and I was under the impression the Yato chooses its wielders ala the Falchion. He has slightly more ways to die, but it's not like the requirements are particularly easier.

[MrMcThrasher]

Pretty sure it'd end with Anankos tearfully screaming "pity me!" and then declaring himself the winner when Grima sighs at the sorry sight and leaves.

And here we have the correct answer, everyone.

[Aurabolt]

...Folks really do underestimate Grima's time travel factor in the fight. Awakening's plot involving Grima and Lucina isn't all that different from the Future Trunks/Cell/Android Saga from Dragonball Z.

Remember: At the time Awakening begins, Lucina's world had already been destroyed. Lucina goes back in time hoping to head off Chrom meeting Robin but she arrives a few days too late to keep them from meeting. She's basically there to make sure history doesn't repeat itself and succeeds...to a degree. Grima!Robin followed Lucina into the past to merge with his past self but for reasons we don't know, the merge attempt fails. The shock of the attempt itself wiped Robin's memories. At that point, Grima!Robin and the present Robin could almost be considered separate beings for much of the game.

Thanks to the link between the two, Grima always knew what Robin was doing and as is demonstated later, could take control of his present self remotely. Grima just needed to make sure everything that happened in Lucina's timeline happened again in the present. Validar was killed but since he was needed to ensure the ressurection of Grima's body, Grima!Robin rezzed him like it was nothing. Not necro-rez but brought him back to life (Hence Robin and Chrom's "LOL Wait didn't we kill you 3 years ago??"). Grima!Robin could exist at the same time as Robin because Grima!Robin was the vessel from Lucina's world. He'd already been rezzed with his soul. He was hoping to rez a second version of himself in the past just to stick it to Lucina XD

...Relative to this debate, Grima easily wins. You have a Dragon God who can only really be killed by himself or his vessel, Robin. The Falchion will only seal him for 1000 years. Remember: Naga bluntly says she can't kill Grima because their powers are equal in strength. The only way he can be killed is by his own hand. Anankos just a really powerful dragon in comparison. Both of them technically. The Dragon had a daughter who would betray him while the Human would have a son/daughter who would one day kill him.

Anankos reminds me a bit of Naraku from Inuyasha: Even though he split himself off twice--once when he cast out his soul, the other when he possessed Garon--his original form didn't suffer a severe drop in power. After getting knocked around a bit in the Vallite Throne room, he summons Garon and takes back the power he gave him ("Hmm...I can't believe forgot I have him this much of my power."). Even then he only had 2/3 of his full power since his soul died 3 years before the start of Fates.

Grima, on the other hand would be at full power. A Grima that can easily travel back in time to before Anankos went mad and kill him, preventing Corrin from even being born XD

On a related note: Thanks to Hidden Truths, we know Dragonkin/Manakete could slowly go crazy. I feel bad for Nah on the one hand but on the other, why is Tiki fine?

[TheWerdna]

On a related note: Thanks to Hidden Truths, we know Dragonkin/Manakete could slowly go crazy. I feel bad for Nah on the one hand but on the other, why is Tiki fine?

Actually, this is the reason Manaketes have human forms and is why the Fire Emblem and Falchion were created in the original FE universe (same one as Awakening). The Divine Dragon tribe (led by Naga) realized the madness problem was a thing and could be solved by taking human forms most of the time. Falchion and the Fire Emblem were then created to deal with the dragons who refused to take hunab forms (which weakened them)

So actually the Awakening Manaketes are fine, their dragon forms are just hard to control.

Edited June 3, 2016 by TheWerdna

[Sartek]

...Relative to this debate, Grima easily wins. You have a Dragon God who can only really be killed by himself or his vessel, Robin. The Falchion will only seal him for 1000 years. Remember: Naga bluntly says she can't kill Grima because their powers are equal in strength. The only way he can be killed is by his own hand. Anankos just a really powerful dragon in comparison. Both of them technically. The Dragon had a daughter who would betray him while the Human would have a son/daughter who would one day kill him.

Naga said that Grima couldn't kill her either, yet Future's past's Grima claimed to have done it.

[Sentacotus]

...Folks really do underestimate Grima's time travel factor in the fight. Awakening's plot involving Grima and Lucina isn't all that different from the Future Trunks/Cell/Android Saga from Dragonball Z.

Glad I'm not the only one to make this comparison lol. #teamtimetravel

Edited June 6, 2016 by LordTaco42

[Man of Many Faces]

Time travel does require a lot of power.

Edited June 19, 2016 by asdfasdfasdf

[Man of Many Faces]

Glad I'm not the only one to make this comparison lol. #teamtimetravel

Didn't Hydra also have the power to travel through time?

[Aurabolt]

Naga said that Grima couldn't kill her either, yet Future's past's Grima claimed to have done it.

Probably not directly. He likely used the Risen to do it. Chrom was dead by that point but it's possible Grima had Morgan do it. The rule wouldn't apply to Him/Her.

Glad I'm not the only one to make this comparison lol. #teamtimetravel

Yeah, if Dragon Anankos was smart and likely knew what his human counterpart was up to, he would have used the same strategy. Fomortiis would've mopped the floor with both Nohr and Hoshido without breaking a sweat. Grima would've just slaughtered everyone. Ashera would've petrified the whole world. And so on.

Didn't Hydra also have the power to travel through time?

Nope, he traveled to another dimension (Ylisse). He basically stood outside the caslte with a sign saying "Heroes Wanted: Apply Within". Pretty sure the Awakening Trio referenced Nohr and Hoshido as being in another world so they at least heard of it before.

Anankos was far weaker when he got the Awakening Trio than people give him credit for. He had just enough power to slightly change the Awakening Trio's appearances and temporarily giving them the power to use Dragon's Veins. He couldn't bring back everyone who died in the ruined Ylisse because of how much power that would've taken compared to what he could spare. I would assume teleportation magic used to cross dimensions uses a large amount of energy. This was probably why he told them the return trip would be 1-way. Methinks they went back to the Ylisse they saved personally.