Making Fates' Stories Better

Sentinel07 · June 24, 2016

Same. I'm just hoping that the next game won't have MU as the main lord. I really didn't enjoy the dragon lord class in the first place, I always reclassed to my talent because other classes seemed more interesting to me. IS will probably still use player worship/pandering because at the end of the day it's all about sales, not much we can do about it

Just got the game a month ago and I was so hyped to play Conquest only to be let down by the story line, I was expecting the whole changing the country within gimmick but what I got was "whiny lord doesn't like his fathers orders but does it anyway so he tries to save people but they all die regardless". Really disappointing.

It was mentioned in BR that Nohr struggles economically while Hoshido lives in abundance. I dunno but maybe a better motivation for Nohr to invade? Maybe having that be Garons initial goal but then once they conquer Hoshido he reveals his real plan.

At the bare minimum, I think the Avatar needs to stay away from being the central character.

On a personal note, I would prefer something similar to Mark (and Robin I suppose), where the Avatar is just the Tactician and nothing more. Because really, that role best suits the player's role in this.

I mean, I'm not particularly fond of Robin, but at least his biggest thing was being a great Tactician, which is basically what the player strives to be.

Augestein · June 24, 2016

I strongly disagree that the Nohrian path should be a revolution against Garon. If I chose to side with Nohr, I want to fight for Nohr. If Conquest was about a revolution from the get go, it would be no different from Birthright, and where's the fun in that? I instead propose to have Nohr be fighting for legitimate reasons; kind of like Trabant in Thracia (I say in Thracia because his more sympathetic personality was almost entirely there).

I think the issue is that they tried too hard to make one country sympathetic. The game starts out with Garon being a scumbag from the start-- kill these prisoners for target practice Corrin! And the game does its damnest to paint Hoshido in a good light. The generic random "monster" enemies in the game are naturally from Nohr, they couldn't have just been monsters in the world, and neither Nohr nor Hoshido couldn't be bothered to regulate them because they were too busy being focused on the other kingdom being a thorn in their side. Having both kingdoms being too busy fighting to pay attention to the common man would have been far better in painting both countries in a bad light. As this is a realistic thing to be done in the first place and it make the tone of the game less "this is good" "this isn't good."

Realistically, there are many reasons that Nohr could be fighting, but here's one I'd like to share that people don't talk about. Hoshido being the initial aggressor. Think about it, when you visit Hoshido, all they talk about is how amazing Hoshido is, now imagine if Mikoto was a woman that was like "I should spread my peace and knowledge and greatness of Hoshido everywhere, because everyone in my country is happy." And other places are like "no, we don't want that," and then Mikoto takes a "you just don't understand. I will conquer you and make you understand just how good this is, you just don't know you want it because you've never experienced it" And this works from the plot, because my god were the Hoshido chapters getting on my nerves when I was doing them. So basically, maybe Hoshido was attempting to culturally dominate the continent with its influence, and such actions put Nohr in a bad spot, because if 3/4 of the continent believe in Hoshidan ideals, this could spark bad news for Nohr, and Garon knows it.

Now, having said that, suddenly Garon sending Corrin with an explosive sword to blow up Mikoto is kind of awesome in this case. It's Garon basically saying "NO Mikoto! I've had enough of your garbage." Sure, it's not very nice that Garon was willing to use Corrin, but this is how you make gray storytelling. Where characters might do things that are wrong, but justifiable. However, it gives Hoshido a reason to counterattack, because the official declaration was an assassination of their queen. Both countries should have been portrayed as awful when you're playing as them. Like, the more you get to know the country, the more you realize that both are not very nice and have shady practices.

My point here is this: there are many , many reasons for Hoshido and Nohr to go to war just based off of what we're given in the story. The issue is that there's not enough fluff given to develop any of them.

Also, if Valla stays, I think Azura should be a villain. Like THE villain. In Conquest, she steers you to destroy Hoshido, in Birthright, Nohr. She's the villain to the point that Azura is the final boss with her Vallian troops instead of Slime Garon / Takumi. Revelations has you doing. Anankos can still be there, but let's make him have a character. He's mad that people don't have reverence for the god dragons anymore, and instead rely on their own discoveries and magic, and he wishes to instill that fear into the common man again. Azura, his child, is carrying out his dying wishes (yes, I'm changing it so Azura is the child instead). Villain Azura would and justify everything she does on other routes. Heck, you could even have things like Azura singing in Conquest be a hex that she was placing on Garon to choke him out, to push the Nohrians to fight harder rather than try to help him.

I really want Azura to be a villain with her manipulating everyone and Hoshido and Nohr are the victims.

Edit: I think the avatar should stay honestly. Having a customizable unit for your first unit instead of a boring sword locked (or just sword using in general) lord is better. Instead, have the lord be a character, and you're just his general. You fight, (s)he talks.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Augestein

blah the Prussian · June 24, 2016

Huh. That use of Azura is really freaking interesting. I never thought about it that way. As for Mikoto, though, the problem with that is its Black and Grey morality; Mikoto is just being a colonialist here. It would work, otoh, if Nohr was the explicitly good nation, but that's not the case. And, finally, my problem with Valla at all is that I hate it when FEs blame conflicts on supernatural shit. The ONLY FE villain who wasn't being manipulated by supernatural shit at all was Ashnard, and that's just on normal! Humans are fucking awful anyway, and I want to see FE explore a human conflict. I will give credit where credit is due, though; that's an awesome plot twist.

saisymbolic · June 24, 2016

I think the issue is that they tried too hard to make one country sympathetic. The game starts out with Garon being a scumbag from the start-- kill these prisoners for target practice Corrin! And the game does its damnest to paint Hoshido in a good light. The generic random "monster" enemies in the game are naturally from Nohr, they couldn't have just been monsters in the world, and neither Nohr nor Hoshido couldn't be bothered to regulate them because they were too busy being focused on the other kingdom being a thorn in their side. Having both kingdoms being too busy fighting to pay attention to the common man would have been far better in painting both countries in a bad light. As this is a realistic thing to be done in the first place and it make the tone of the game less "this is good" "this isn't good."

Realistically, there are many reasons that Nohr could be fighting, but here's one I'd like to share that people don't talk about. Hoshido being the initial aggressor. Think about it, when you visit Hoshido, all they talk about is how amazing Hoshido is, now imagine if Mikoto was a woman that was like "I should spread my peace and knowledge and greatness of Hoshido everywhere, because everyone in my country is happy." And other places are like "no, we don't want that," and then Mikoto takes a "you just don't understand. I will conquer you and make you understand just how good this is, you just don't know you want it because you've never experienced it" And this works from the plot, because my god were the Hoshido chapters getting on my nerves when I was doing them. So basically, maybe Hoshido was attempting to culturally dominate the continent with its influence, and such actions put Nohr in a bad spot, because if 3/4 of the continent believe in Hoshidan ideals, this could spark bad news for Nohr, and Garon knows it.

Now, having said that, suddenly Garon sending Corrin with an explosive sword to blow up Mikoto is kind of awesome in this case. It's Garon basically saying "NO Mikoto! I've had enough of your garbage." Sure, it's not very nice that Garon was willing to use Corrin, but this is how you make gray storytelling. Where characters might do things that are wrong, but justifiable. However, it gives Hoshido a reason to counterattack, because the official declaration was an assassination of their queen. Both countries should have been portrayed as awful when you're playing as them. Like, the more you get to know the country, the more you realize that both are not very nice and have shady practices.

My point here is this: there are many , many reasons for Hoshido and Nohr to go to war just based off of what we're given in the story. The issue is that there's not enough fluff given to develop any of them.

Also, if Valla stays, I think Azura should be a villain. Like THE villain. In Conquest, she steers you to destroy Hoshido, in Birthright, Nohr. She's the villain to the point that Azura is the final boss with her Vallian troops instead of Slime Garon / Takumi. Revelations has you doing. Anankos can still be there, but let's make him have a character. He's mad that people don't have reverence for the god dragons anymore, and instead rely on their own discoveries and magic, and he wishes to instill that fear into the common man again. Azura, his child, is carrying out his dying wishes (yes, I'm changing it so Azura is the child instead). Villain Azura would and justify everything she does on other routes. Heck, you could even have things like Azura singing in Conquest be a hex that she was placing on Garon to choke him out, to push the Nohrians to fight harder rather than try to help him.

I really want Azura to be a villain with her manipulating everyone and Hoshido and Nohr are the victims.

Edit: I think the avatar should stay honestly. Having a customizable unit for your first unit instead of a boring sword locked (or just sword using in general) lord is better. Instead, have the lord be a character, and you're just his general. You fight, (s)he talks.

I want this. As well, why is Mikoto's future sight never expanded upon? It is literally there to justify being able to marry your "siblings". I thought it would be interesting if, over the course of the story, she developed a sort of Messiah/God Complex due her receiving visions that may-or-may-not come true. Her intentions would start out pure but she would gradually become obsessed with this idea of a perfect Utopian world gained through conquest. Hell, throw in some subtle Anankos influence if Valla is necessary. There are so many ways three routes could have been executed. Mikoto, Sumeragi and Arete were such throwaway characters, it is a damn shame. Like OP said, Fates is a game suffering from completely squandered potential.

I actually quite like the idea of the Avatar system; it's just that it is something of a difficult system to pull off. There is a distinct balance that needs to kept when doing it. They want the Avatar to have a role in the story but they can't give them too much attention or we will get player worship like with Fates but you can't give them too little attention or it'll be FE7 with Mark who was essentially negligible. You want your character to have their special moment but not to the extent of blotting out the rest of the character's moments.

If I had one request about the Avatar for next game (because it is mostly likely coming back), it would be this: please give me a soldier-based class with lances. Let me be a part of the soldier legion. Let me be a Halberdier, IS! Please!

Edited June 24, 2016 by SaiSymbolic

Augestein · June 24, 2016

Huh. That use of Azura is really freaking interesting. I never thought about it that way. As for Mikoto, though, the problem with that is its Black and Grey morality; Mikoto is just being a colonialist here. It would work, otoh, if Nohr was the explicitly good nation, but that's not the case. And, finally, my problem with Valla at all is that I hate it when FEs blame conflicts on supernatural shit. The ONLY FE villain who wasn't being manipulated by supernatural shit at all was Ashnard, and that's just on normal! Humans are fucking awful anyway, and I want to see FE explore a human conflict. I will give credit where credit is due, though; that's an awesome plot twist.

It doesn't have supernatural though. It could just be belief in a god. Look at it this way: Anankos isn't a god, but a dragon. That's all. He wants people to go back to having reverence for the gods. That's specifically NOT super natural. As a matter of fact, it's specifically the lack of supernatural that's even pressing him to do this. It's essentially him being like "you guys are blasphemers and should die if you don't believe." But man, evil Azura gets me, because if you make her bad, it makes so many of her actions suddenly make a lot more sense. You'd be all like "why the hell is everyone so stupid!?" And then Azura's like "Corrin, you really are an idiot! You'd help me because I acted nice? That's it!? I thought this would have been difficult, but you just fell right into my hands" She even would have been able to take a massive dump on all of Corrin's "this is for the good of the people," and "I trust everyone." She could have had kids with you, she could have pretended to like you for all that time only to laugh at you at the very end.

I want this. As well, why is Mikoto's future sight never expanded upon? It is literally there to justify being able to marry your "siblings". I thought it would be interesting if, over the course of the story, she developed a sort of Messiah/God Complex due her receiving visions that may-or-may-not come true. Her intentions would start out pure but she would gradually become obsessed with this idea of a perfect Utopian world gained through conquest. Hell, throw in some subtle Anankos influence if Valla is necessary. There are so many ways three routes could have been executed. Mikoto, Sumeragi and Arete were such throwaway characters, it is a damn shame. Like OP said, Fates is a game suffering from completely squandered potential.

Indeed. Heck, having characters behave differently like that would have been awesome. The problem is that so many characters just die before they can really say or do anything. I agree, this game's base is really solid, even the story itself isn't terrible at base. It's the way the plot unravels that's the problem.

And this is exactly why I'd rather the lord be someone that doesn't necessarily fight, but you fight for them. Sort of like Ike's and Elincia's relationship. You're important enough to have an excuse to talk to everyone, you have enough say to dictate things without the world revolving around you, and you're the commander of the army, thus excusing why you're controlling most of the units. However, it doesn't leave every major decision in your hands nor does it make you the most important character in the game. Awakening kind of does this, but Chrom's relevance wanes later on as Robin's becomes overbearing.

RedRob · June 24, 2016

Okay I'm back, with some character changes this time.

Characters

Sumeragi no longer marries Mikoto. Instead, he meets her and her child while they're being chased by slavers. Sumeragi steps in and saves them. Wanting to know why they were being chased, Sumeragi asks Mikoto only for her to simply thanks him and run off. They eventually met again several times, due to Sumeragi looking for them to get an answer about what happened that day. They become friends over time, with Sumeragi eventually falling in love with her. But he refuses to act on those feelings since he's still in love with his wife. Time passed and one day Sumeragi's wife becomes sick, and in a few weeks, dies. Sumeragi, remembering Mikoto's motherly and caring nature that he loved her for, and not wanting his children to grow up without a mother, seeks her out, only to find her at death's door in her bed, dying from disease just like his wife. In her final moments, Mikoto tells him of her home country, Valla, and how her former lover, and the father of her child, was a dragon, making her child a manakete, the half-dragons of lore. She implores him to protect her child from those who would abuse his powers, and falls unconscious, weakened from her sickness. Sumeragi promises he will protect her child, and rushes to the palace in hopes of finding a healer to save her, taking her child with her, not wanting them to be left on their own defenseless. He returns with healers in tow, only to find she died in her sleep.
The last few parts of Sumeragi's background is to explain why Corrin was with him when he was killed by Garon, as Sumeragi didn't trust the child to be safe in the hands of others, nor did he want others to be injured fulfilling a promise he made.
Garon is largely the same. The Crimson Harem(my name for the waifu wars) starts with an attempted murder on Xander, only for his mother, the Queen, to shield him and die instead. Word gets out the assassin was hired by one of the concubines, but no one knows who. Motivated by the possibility of their child becoming the crown prince, and distrust of the others, fighting breaks out among the concubines in forms of trickery, deceit, and assassination. With perpetrators unknown and busy keeping a starving kingdom alive and together, with many nobles using the unrest to try and overthrow him, Garon is unable to stop the fighting.
The fighting ends with the arrival of Arete, the new soon-to be Queen. This inspires a group of children, no longer wanting to be pawns of their mothers' plan to gain power, to band together and assassinate the rest who didn't accept their offer to end the fighting, seeking for the bloodshed to finally come to an end and to live in peace with their family under the reign of the new queen. This ends with the concubines and their children dead, save for a few, such as Leon and Camilla, and those who left the castle to escape the violence, such as Elise's mother who is to give birth soon at the time of Arete's arrival. (She's going to die in child birth to explain her absence in the story)
With the violence over, and a new wife and Queen to help care for his family and kingdom, Garon seeks out an audience with King Sumeragi of Hoshido, hoping to trade with them for their bountiful crops.

And that took me about an hour to write so I'm taking a break. Also I'm thinking of making a thread just to discuss my version of the story, as I don't want to clutter up this thread with my various ideas, and I don't want them to become lost among everyone else's ideas. Should I make a thread, or should I just continue posting them here?

Also, I would like to note that the Avatar system was kind of present in Rekka No Ken

Edited June 24, 2016 by RedRob

Augestein · June 24, 2016

God, we need a topic where everyone writes their own "Fates" how the **** can a story have so many potential branches while keeping everything in tact? it's... Pretty nuts. Also the Crimson Harem needs to be a thing. Haha.

CrimsonRaven · June 24, 2016

At the bare minimum, I think the Avatar needs to stay away from being the central character.

On a personal note, I would prefer something similar to Mark (and Robin I suppose), where the Avatar is just the Tactician and nothing more. Because really, that role best suits the player's role in this.

I mean, I'm not particularly fond of Robin, but at least his biggest thing was being a great Tactician, which is basically what the player strives to be.

The way they did MU in Mystery of the Emblem was pretty good IMO. MU had very little story significance even the ending is MU basically saying "nah man you take all the credit even though I carried your entire army" to Marth. Sure the supports where god awful among other flaws but I liked the idea. Marth simply relied on MU a lot and not much else, just being a strong support role for him. I'd love to see that in the new FE game

NekoKnight · June 24, 2016

Concerning Avatars, I like them as a concept but they need to be toned down. I think the avatar should be like Soren; a confidant of the MC, maybe have their own character arc, but the story isn't about them.

Realistically, there are many reasons that Nohr could be fighting, but here's one I'd like to share that people don't talk about. Hoshido being the initial aggressor. Think about it, when you visit Hoshido, all they talk about is how amazing Hoshido is, now imagine if Mikoto was a woman that was like "I should spread my peace and knowledge and greatness of Hoshido everywhere, because everyone in my country is happy." And other places are like "no, we don't want that," and then Mikoto takes a "you just don't understand. I will conquer you and make you understand just how good this is, you just don't know you want it because you've never experienced it" And this works from the plot, because my god were the Hoshido chapters getting on my nerves when I was doing them. So basically, maybe Hoshido was attempting to culturally dominate the continent with its influence, and such actions put Nohr in a bad spot, because if 3/4 of the continent believe in Hoshidan ideals, this could spark bad news for Nohr, and Garon knows it.

Now, having said that, suddenly Garon sending Corrin with an explosive sword to blow up Mikoto is kind of awesome in this case. It's Garon basically saying "NO Mikoto! I've had enough of your garbage." Sure, it's not very nice that Garon was willing to use Corrin, but this is how you make gray storytelling. Where characters might do things that are wrong, but justifiable. However, it gives Hoshido a reason to counterattack, because the official declaration was an assassination of their queen. Both countries should have been portrayed as awful when you're playing as them. Like, the more you get to know the country, the more you realize that both are not very nice and have shady practices.

Also, if Valla stays, I think Azura should be a villain. Like THE villain. In Conquest, she steers you to destroy Hoshido, in Birthright, Nohr. She's the villain to the point that Azura is the final boss with her Vallian troops instead of Slime Garon / Takumi. Revelations has you doing. Anankos can still be there, but let's make him have a character. He's mad that people don't have reverence for the god dragons anymore, and instead rely on their own discoveries and magic, and he wishes to instill that fear into the common man again. Azura, his child, is carrying out his dying wishes (yes, I'm changing it so Azura is the child instead). Villain Azura would and justify everything she does on other routes. Heck, you could even have things like Azura singing in Conquest be a hex that she was placing on Garon to choke him out, to push the Nohrians to fight harder rather than try to help him.

I really want Azura to be a villain with her manipulating everyone and Hoshido and Nohr are the victims.

I want this. As well, why is Mikoto's future sight never expanded upon? It is literally there to justify being able to marry your "siblings". I thought it would be interesting if, over the course of the story, she developed a sort of Messiah/God Complex due her receiving visions that may-or-may-not come true. Her intentions would start out pure but she would gradually become obsessed with this idea of a perfect Utopian world gained through conquest. Hell, throw in some subtle Anankos influence if Valla is necessary. There are so many ways three routes could have been executed. Mikoto, Sumeragi and Arete were such throwaway characters, it is a damn shame. Like OP said, Fates is a game suffering from completely squandered potential.

Seeing some neat ideas here. Keep them coming!

And that took me about an hour to write so I'm taking a break. Also I'm thinking of making a thread just to discuss my version of the story, as I don't want to clutter up this thread with my various ideas, and I don't want them to become lost among everyone else's ideas. Should I make a thread, or should I just continue posting them here?

Also, I would like to note that the Avatar system was kind of present in Rekka No Ken

You could post it in the old Fan Fiction Thread. Seems like everyone is revving up their fanfictions again.

RedRob · June 24, 2016

God, we need a topic where everyone writes their own "Fates" how the **** can a story have so many potential branches while keeping everything in tact? it's... Pretty nuts. Also the Crimson Harem needs to be a thing. Haha.

I called it that since I felt it would be appropriate to give it a proper name as it sets up a major part of Garon's character, plus it seems like the something that would be well remembered and given a appellation due to how tragic and influential it was, like 9/11, the black plague, Hurricane Katrina, or for a fictional example, the Red Wedding from GoT. I called it the Crimson Harem since I couldn't call it a war or battle or anything, since it was that would imply violence that was more "outspoken" than simple assassinations and political plots. So I was stuck, with having to convey the violence without going overboard. So I copied the Red Wedding, and called it the Crimson Harem, referring to how members of Garon's harem, or concubines, caused much bloodshed amongst themselves.

That said, I willing to take suggestions for names.

Concerning Avatars, I like them as a concept but they need to be toned down. I think the avatar should be like Soren; a confidant of the MC, maybe have their own character arc, but the story isn't about them.

Seeing some neat ideas here. Keep them coming!

You could post it in the old Fan Fiction Thread. Seems like everyone is revving up their fanfictions again.

I thought about it, but that's been inactive for a while seeing how it hasn't been on the front page for a few months, so I was concerned it might be considered a nerco-post.

NekoKnight · June 24, 2016

I thought about it, but that's been inactive for a while seeing how it hasn't been on the front page for a few months, so I was concerned it might be considered a nerco-post.

It's only been inactive for about a month, so it's not THAT old. I do prefer using a unified thread, it's a bit easier to keep track of. ~~And I'm biased because it's my baby.~~

RedRob · June 24, 2016

It's only been inactive for about a month, so it's not THAT old. I do prefer using a unified thread, it's a bit easier to keep track of. ~~And I'm biased because it's my baby.~~

Okay, thanks for telling me.

Alazen · June 25, 2016

If we're talking about how to "shade" Hoshido then here's a tumblr post that caught something I doubt was planned by the devs:

http://irandrura.tumblr.com/post/145088150148

On ch. 18:

You know, Im surprised that Izumo is even allowed to exist. Its a supposedly neutral nation that nonetheless freely hosts and banquets a Nohrian army, while allowing that same army free passage through their territory. Even if Izuma doesnt have some sort of vassal relationship to Hoshido, if I were Ryoma, I would seriously consider taking Izumo by force. By offering shelter and free passage to the invading Nohrian army, Izumo has effectively taken a side. Neutrality that allows open passage isnt really neutrality at all. Izumo is a large hole in Hoshidos defenses, and Hoshido cant possibly afford to tolerate that at a time when Nohr is launching a continental invasion.

As to Zolas scheme well, this is certainly a very chivalrous response on the part of the Nohrians. If he were only going to imprison the Hoshidan royals, Id probably encourage Corrin to just let it happen. If Corrin is willing to walk an evil path and to be hated by all if it will save both kingdoms, that should probably extend to breaking a promise of neutrality. After all, if the Hoshidan royals are neutralised and the Nohrian army can just waltz up to Shirasagi, that should let us accomplish the stupid use-the-throne-to-unmask-Garon plan with far fewer needless deaths than otherwise. But I can understand balking at killing the other royals.

I continue to be confused as to why Takumi thinks Corrin is a traitor. Takumi always thought that Corrin was Nohrian to the bone. He never had any illusions about Corrin being loyal to Hoshido, so how can he be a traitor?

On the beginning of ch. 19:

Im just going to abandon all pretence of Hoshido being the good kingdom. Hoshido and Nohr are both douches.

Okay, I get whats going on here: kitsune are naturally friendly, but poachers kill them for their fur, so they kill any humans who trespass on their lands. But were pretty close to the centre of Hoshido now. Why didnt the kindly queen Mikoto try to prevent this poaching? Maybe dispatch guards or scouts, considering that this sort of poaching is the outright murder of intelligent beings? Or perhaps intervened once it became clear that the kitsune were murdering humans on sight as well?

There is an indiscriminate race war going on here. Combined with what I found out two chapters ago about Mokushu exterminating Kohga, it seems as though the idea that Hoshido was peaceful is either a lie or a delusion. Multiple, brutal tribal wars were going on inside Hoshidos borders, and it doesnt seem as though they can be blamed on Nohr.

Im starting to think that both major kingdoms are horrible, but in different ways. Nohr is horrible due to a brutal and autocratic central administration, that controls its tributaries through terror. The Ice Tribe, Nestra, Cheve; Nohr keeps the peace, but it does so in a terribly oppressive way. Hoshido, on the other hand, is apathetic and has a weak central administration, that fails to create peace. Of the minor states weve seen so far, one invaded and wiped out another one, another one is occupied with a murderous racial war, and another so neutral that it allows an invading army to just wander through and invade all its neighbours. Hoshido is not peaceful; Hoshido is just passive.

Sooo, you could roll with this and make it confirmed that Hoshido works more or less like Japan before the Tokugawa Era came.

NekoKnight · June 25, 2016

If we're talking about how to "shade" Hoshido then here's a tumblr post that caught something I doubt was planned by the devs:

http://irandrura.tumblr.com/post/145088150148

Sooo, you could roll with this and make it confirmed that Hoshido works more or less like Japan before the Tokugawa Era came.

Their argument against Hoshido is pretty weak. I'm not sure if there is any value in contradicting their points since aren't here, but I'll do it anyway.

1. Mokushu and Koga (as far as I can tell) are not a part of the kingdom of Hoshido. In other words, it's not the responsibility Hoshido to police their shit.

2. Kitsune kill people who trespass on their mountain because they are often poachers. Nothing in the narrative says that poaching is tolerated by the Hoshidan government. There is no race war going on. It's a tribe protecting themselves from criminals.

I think they have the misconception that everything east of the Infinite Chasm is part of Hoshido. It seems that Hoshido is just one small kingdom amongst many independent nations/tribes.

Alazen · June 25, 2016

Well yeah, I did say the poster caught something that wasn't planned by the devs.

RedRob · June 25, 2016

I think they have the misconception that everything east of the Infinite Chasm is part of Hoshido. It seems that Hoshido is just one small kingdom amongst many independent nations/tribes.

To be fair, in this thread it's been mentioned that political relations aren't well established, hence that misconception. At first I was confused on whether the other nations where other countries, or just provinces ruled by officials that were a part of Hoshido.

Alazen · June 25, 2016

Well anyway, I'm not seeing the point of Iago being a character. He's just a goon for Garon so he doesn't do the scheming chancellor against the ruler act, he plays too little of a role in the setting's affairs to be a dandy Gharnef wannabe, and since Zola is a character he comes off as even more unnecessary.

blah the Prussian · June 25, 2016

The only way I can see Iago working is as a one shot villain who tries to do something against the Hoshidans and the Nohrians, like maybe in a power play he kidnaps both Sakura and Elise, or something. Then, the Hoshidans and Nohrians have to work together, and it would be an interesting chance for mutual respect to develop between them to make the final showdown all the more tragic. Something like that.

warchiefwilliams · June 27, 2016

Did someone say ideas thread? World building ideas incoming! Well, at least for Nohr and for the Bottomless Canyon. Still need to do Hoshido.

(edit: hrm, looks like I forgot to remove some stuff relating to my own writings trying to tie another continent into the fates world. All well)

(warning: Wall of text)

Nations and Landmarks on the Ivron Continent

Common Mythology-

· Basics

o In the creation myth of the world common to both Nohr and Hoshido, the Astral Dragons initially ruled over creation with a clearly established hierarchy, humans were the thralls of the dragons, though they were unaware of it, praising the dragons as gods. Over time, some of their number believed they should rule as opposed to those in charge and rebelled, becoming the Dark Dragons. They were led by the former 2^nd in command of the Astral Dragons, Anankos. In order to gain dominance over the Astral Dragons, they use a corrupted form of the creation magic (which later morphed into dark magic) to combat the Astral Dragons. Determined to gain a numerical advantage, the Dark Dragons freed humanity from thralldom for use against the Astral Dragons. They did this by informing the humans that they were slaves and by fighting against the Astral Dragons, they would guarantee their freedom, though they didn’t tell the newly freed humans that they would be able to keep their freedom after the rebellion. During the war, the cataclysmic conflict led to the creation of several of the barriers now common throughout the world, like the Infinite Chasm, the Maelstrom (a perpetual storm in the Eastern Sea off Hoshido) and the Europan Sea (Fates/Imperial Rewrite only). In the end, the Dark Dragons were nearly wiped out, their fallen forms coating the land that would become the Blight and slowly corrupting it. It was, however, a pyrrhic victory, as the few surviving Astral Dragons were forced to flee to the hidden realm of Touma, the original homeland of the Dragons, with their closest human followers. The few remaining Dark Dragons had no choice but to flee along with their brethren, nursing wounded psyches and resentment towards their thralls who had failed them, and to their former foes who they were now forced to live with for their survival. For the nations on the Europan continent, their mythology shares much with Nohr’s but rather than the Dark Dragons leading the rebellion, it was the human pantheon of those lands, rather than the dragons who broke the iron grip of the dragons, leading mankind to both freedom and salvation.

o In modern times, aspect of this creation myth have permeated across the culture of all nations on the Continent, though which aspects take precedence depends greatly on which side of the Chasm you are located. Typically, nations west of the Chasm have built their religions around the worship of the Dark Dragons, believing them to be the liberators of humanity and revile the Astral Dragons, seeing them as slave masters who robbed humanity of their free will. Conversely, nations to the east of the Chasm view the Astral Dragons as bringers of order to a chaotic world, and those who would follow the Dark Dragons are agents of chaos determined to replace their holy gods with fell ones whose disorder will mean the end of all things. In reality, both camps are simultaneously right and wrong about the nature of the Dragons. As for the Dragons themselves, no one has seen a true Astral or Dark Dragon for dozens of generations, though every noble dynasty or wealthy patrician likes to claim that they are the true descendants of the Dragons, though only the Plantagenets in Nohr and the Yamotos in Hoshido are descended from the Dragons. As for the Europans, their pantheon did exist as the leaders of the human rebellion, though they did collude with the Dark Dragons. That latter fact is oft forgotten by the Europan powers, who judge the dragons based on the feral Sun Dragons and Star Dragons in the Dolomite Mountains, little better than future mounts for the best warriors, not as the once-rulers of the world.

Kingdom of Nohr-

· Basic History

o Centered on the Kraken Crater, the Kingdom of Nohr is the central most kingdom on the western part of the Ivron continent. Despite its higher population, most of Nohr’s land continues to bear scars from the Great Dragon War of legend, with most of the land being ash wastelands caused by the volcanos of the Great Blight. As such, most of Nohr’s farmland produces only enough food to go around, meaning that famines can have a great effect on Nohr. The last great famine occurred during the reign of Garon’s great-grandfather, which was the incident that sparked Nohr’s initial expansion. The mountain range that dominates the northern section of the country, and the range that separates them from the Frozen Wastes, is rich in natural resources, including deep, high-quality iron. Before it’s expansionist phase began, Nohr’s economy was primarily based around selling weapons and metallic goods to the surrounding countries for their conflicts in exchange for food products. It was only after the rise of King Richard Plantagenet the 1^st (Garon’s great grandfather) that Nohr began to spread outwards to subjugate these territories rather than trade with them.

· Society

o While, like many nations on the Ivron continent, Nohr does operate underneath a feudal system of government, several societal aspects set it apart. The most notable is the underlying meritocracy that permeates all levels of Nohrian society. Due to the traditional shortage of foodstuffs and medicinal herbs within Nohr’s borders, its society developed a “survival of the fittest” mentality across all of its social strata. A commoner, living in Windmire, through tenacity and grit, can very easily become a Royal Knight while a noble who is feeble or otherwise unfit can end up spending his life as a criminal in Windmore’s Underground District. While the nobility is obvious better equipped than the commoners, it is not uncommon for a noble son to try to strike above his position, only to fall to an upstart commoner.

o This does have the side effect of creating a cutthroat culture within Nohr proper, and this aspect of Nohr’s culture was a direct cause of the Concubine Wars. Nohr’s culture is very unforgiving towards failure, and fittingly, failure is often rewarded with severe demotion at best and execution at worst. For example, a commander who loses a battle with a majority loss on his side and he survives the battle may be killed by his own men while returning to Nohr, and if he survives to return to Nohr, he may even face execution for his incompetence.

· Culture

o The culture of Nohr is a reflection of its society, dominance-oriented. The buildings of Nohr are intentionally built as large as possible to show the power of the builders and of those who order the construction. Many of the castles and fortresses dotting the Nohrian landscape are built using darkstone, a material that has significance within the Nohrian religion, and as such help to enforce their dominance over the land. Statues within Windmire are typically of heroes of old or of the Dark Dragons which freed humanity from the order of the Light Dragons. Occasionally, a statue of a current hero or commander will be erected within a city or a town, though if the hero fails, then it is not uncommon for the statue to be smashed.

o The religion of Nohr is focused around the worship of the Dark Dragons. While most of the populace only pays token respect to the Dark Dragons, there are plenty of cults dedicated to individual dragons that played a key role in the liberation of humanity from thralldom, the most influential one being for the Dragon Anankos, the one who first freed humanity. These cults typically mount expeditions into the Great Blight in an attempt to find relics from the Great War, but for what purpose they desire these relics are unknown.

· Geography

o Nohr’s territory is almost entirely unsuitable for farming or grazing. Only the hardiest crops and livestock can survive in the desolate landscape surrounding Windmire and nothing can survive within Nohr’s portion of the Great Blight. There is some arable land just south of the Frozen Wastes, but this can only support minimal levels of agriculture. As if the gods wanted to make up for this deficit, the many mountain ranges in the north of Nohr are rich in natural resources and metals, which fuel both Nohr’s economy and military. While the Great Blight regions have never given Nohr any immediate benefit, many of the Dark Dragon cults and Nohr’s Sorcerer Academy have outposts in the region to harvest ancient artefacts and magical relics from bygone eras. While officially the Kingdom proper consists only of a few Duchies, the Kingdom does boast a very high population density when compared to territories in both the Greater Nohrian Empire and Hoshido. Again, due to the fact that the region is not capable of producing enough foodstuff to feed this population, Nohr must either trade or conquer new territories for subsidence. Large mountain ranges, thick swamps and uninhabitable wastelands surround Nohr itself, making all invasion attempts incredibly risky propositions.

Greater Nohrian Empire

· Basic History

o The term “Greater Nohrian Empire” came about as Nohr began to expand their influence from the core of the Nohrian Kingdom into the surrounding city-states, duchies and tribal lands. In most cases, rather than try to directly integrate these varied territories with Nohr, they were instead converted into tributary states that provide resources to Nohr that the Kingdom could not produce or could not effectively produce on its own, specifically foodstuffs. The Greater Empire also acts as the Kingdom’s main connection with the rest of Ivron and beyond through major states like Port Dia and the Cheve Kingdom. While many of the territories to the south are recent additions to the Greater Empire, many of the ones surrounding the original Kingdom of Nohr have been tributary states for so long that they see themselves as Nohrians, with little memory of their previous culture. Functionally speaking, there is no true “Nohrian Empire” as theoretically, each of the individual kingdoms and states are autonomous entities. However, the combination of their oath of fealty to the King of Nohr and the gradual assimilation to Nohrian culture throughout the “Empire” has caused both outsiders and the population of this reason to refer to themselves as the Empire of Nohr.

· Society and culture

o The societies of the Greater Empire differ with each tribe, Duchy or city-state within the realm, but there are some consistencies between the different regions, namely their gradual adoption of Nohr’s cutthroat-style meritocracy. Many states in the early stages of integration are rewarded with additional resources and military support the more they give their own resources to Nohr, encouraging meritocracy on a macro level which often permeates into all aspects of their society.

· States within the Greater Nohrian Empire

o The Core States, or those states that were originally subjugated by Nohr, are very similar to Nohr in terms of their society and culture. More often than not, the people of these regions see themselves as Nohrians, not remembering their original culture. The Core is the wealthiest part of the Empire, and is home to a disproportionate amount of nobles and merchants from other states in the Empire. The outer reaches of the Core are not as loyal to Nohr, as these duchies and cities still have some record of being independent of Windmire. However, with each passing year, more of those who remember their lands being independent pass away, and a newer generation who considers themselves Nohrians replaces them.

o The State of Macarath was originally known for being a bandit kingdom, which raided both the Duchies that became the Core Regions as well as the southern states around the Tabora Desert. Despite its rough reputation, its key position in fertile land in the middle between the Devil’s Bog and the Tabora Desert made it an ideal border-state for the initial Empire. Macarath has long been integrated within the Greater Empire, but many within its borders have not forgotten their old culture as bandits and mercenaries. Most of the foot soldiers found within Nohrian Armies come from Macarath, where the repeated raids across the Infinite Chasm toward Hoshido forge them into a disciplined force. The Maracarathians have taken a bit too well to Nohr’s cutthroat culture, and it is more bloody than Nohr on a bad day. Despite Macarath’s constantly fluctuating political field between various Syndicate groups, they remain loyal to Nohr over all else. This loyalty is what caused the Nohrian Royalty to establish their Summer Palace within the Kingdom of Macarath, rather than within Nohr.

§ Note: During the 4^th Nohr-Hoshido War (the one prior to the one in Fates) most of Macarath’s farmland is salted by vindictive Hoshidoan soldiers. This maneuver destroyed much of the Kingdom of Macarath’s arable land and it is predicted to either cause mass famines across the Empire or be the main causus belli for an invasion of Hoshido.

o The City-State of Dia is a Merchant Republic that has sworn fealty towards Nohr. Officially, the state is ruled by a council of wealthy Patricians, however true political power lies with several Nohrian Nobles who, through connections with both Nohrian and Dian Merchants, are able to control trade through the Port City. The Patricians do not mind so long as they are making a profit through trade with other members of the Empire, Hoshidoan samurai seeking quality weapons, and merchants from the mysterious Imperium of Verdia across the sea. Culturally, Port Dia is a hotspot for the arts, as the Patricians pay well for great works of art in order to boost their own prestige compared to their rival Patricians. It is a common saying in this state that “Muse is the city of music, but Port Dia is the city of high art!”

o The Glacies Tribe, more commonly known as the Ice Tribe, is a semi-nomadic tribe that makes its home in the Southern Alps Mountain Range that borders the Tabora Desert and the Devil’s Bog. The Tribe’s best known ability is to manipulate the weather of their frozen home through magic, allows them to both create ideal weather zones for their agriculture (consisting of hearty mountain yaks and certain crops found in caves) and to defend their lands from interlopers who would threaten them. All members of the Glacies Tribe are magically adept to some degree, and a significant portion of the sorcerers in Nohr’s armies either is directly from the Tribe or can trace their heritage to the Southern Alps. Unlike many of the states within the Greater Empire, the Glacies Tribe has always been fiercely independent. While they do benefit from being a part of the Empire, as they have access to trade goods and knowledge that they would not have had otherwise, the Tribe’s nomadic nature and history of surviving in what is considered to be one of Ivorn’s inhospitable zones means they would rather rely on their own abilities than another nation. Recently, there have been rumors that Nohr, under Garon Plantagenet, has been maintaining the Glacies Tribe’s loyalty through intimidation, supposedly holding Chief Kilma’s heirs, his twin daughters, hostage somewhere. There is some concern that at some point, the Glacies Tribe will rebel against Nohr.

o The Cheve Kingdom is a large region to the south of Devil’s Bog and the Southern Alps. Similar to Nohr, most of cheve’s land is unsuitable for agriculture, though since Chev has a far smaller population than Nohr, a lack of food is less of a concern. To further alleviate the potential for a food crisis, the Citizens of Cheve, not including the nomadic tribes that live within the Tabora Desert, rely on the sea for subsidence. With most of Chevalier’s food either coming from the sea, the all but a small portion of the arable land is used to breed and raise horses, making Cheve the premier place to acquire mounts for both Hoshido and Nohr. In addition to horseback cavalry, the Tabora Wyvern, which is commonly found in the Kingdom’s western fringes, is one of the easiest monstrous mounts to be both captured and trained, making Cheve a mecca for knights across the Greater Empire seeking a better mount. Chev is the most recent inclusion into the Greater Empire, having been subjugated right after Garon took the throne after his father died in a border skirmish with the desert kingdom. Many of the Kingdom’s citizens, a fiercely independent people, resent being a part of Nohr, seeing both Nohr and the Greater Empire as parasites that feed off the success of other lands and gives little in return. The Chevalier Incident, where King Yamoto Sumeragi of Hoshido was lured into Chevalier City with the promise of a ceasefire and killed along with most of the Yamoto Branch Family in an ambush led personally by King Garon, only cemented the Nohr’s dishonorable reputation with both the commoners and nobility of Chev. As of now, there are several resistance movements within Chev; however, they are far from united, being split along ideological lines between those who seek more autonomy within the Empire and those who seek total independence.

o While they used to be far more widespread across The Forest of the Forlorn and the Southern Alps, a genocidal push by Hoshidoan troops during the Cherry Offensive ten years before the events of Fates pushed the remnants of the Wolfskin Tribes onto the mountain that became known as Garou Peak. While many of the various tribes continued to nurse grudges against one another, the tribes are united behind the leadership of Head Chief Keaton, who, despite his tendency to disappear to explore the world, has the leadership skills to ensure that the Wolfskin will follow him and ensure their survival. The Wolfskin have a bit of a tense relationship with the Greater Empire. While it isn’t uncommon to see at least one Wolfskin section in each of the Empire’s five Legions, any attempt to either tax or place human nobles over Garou Peak has resulted in their corpses lining the approach to the Peak as a warning. As no human has ever been beyond the border villages along the foothills of Garou Peak, no one knows how many Wolfskin are left, and rather than attack an unknown foe, the Empire has elected to leave the Wolfskin alone. There is a governor of Garou Peak, however, the position mostly exists as a formality. The Wolfskin Chieftains typically elect one of their own who will represent then should the need arise.

o While not technically a part of the Greater Empire anymore, the Principality of Nestra still has very close ties with both Nohr and the Greater Empire. A merchant republic similar to the Republic of Dia, Nestra, and its capitol of Cyrkensia is a major trade port where the wealth of the world is on display. Another similarity with the Republic of Dia is the almost obsessive way that the city’s wealthy, both feudal nobles and merchant patricians spend money on art. Though unlike the Dian nobles who spend on physical art like paintings or statues, Nestrans prefer to invest in drama and music composers. Politically, the Congress of Nestra do what they can to maintain a stance of absolute neutrality to the various conflicts across the Ivron continent, and despite the wealth to be had for anyone who owns the state, Cyrkensia’s position on low-lying swampland and the city’s extensive fortifications makes invasion a difficult proposition.

Geography of the Greater Empire

· Basics

o Similar to Nohr itself, the Greater Empire is home to several desolate or otherwise uninhabitable regions created either by natural processes or by corruption from the Great War. Despite the apparent desolate nature of the Empire, the land is rich in raw resources that have provided the states of the Empire with wealth and the potential for greater power, though only Nohr has capitalized on that potential.

· Major Regions

o The Forest of the Forlorn is a vast swamp located in the northern portion of Makaras and southern Nohr. While obstinately fairly normal for a swamp, the Forest is awash with magical energy blowing in from the Great Blight. While not as dangerous as the energy that covers the Infinite Mountains, the magical energy crossing the dark woodlands still has had a negative effect on the creatures and plants within the region. Carnivorous plants are commonplace and even the smallest mouse has heightened aggression and strength compared to creatures and plants elsewhere. In recent decades, the Forest has become increasingly populated by Faceless; including the earlier rejected Faceless models, modern Faceless and the nearly immobile Golems. These Faceless wander aimlessly through the woods, searching for travelers and larger creatures to feast upon. It isn’t uncommon for brave, or foolish, sorcerers to brave the Forest of the Forlorn to enthrall as many Faceless as they can, but most end up just being the Faceless’s dinner.

o The Southern Alps Range borders both the Forest of the Forlon and the Tabora Desert. Home to several of the world’s tallest mountains, this mountain range helps to divide the central portion of the Empire from the southern coasts. Unlike the Forest of the Forlorn to the North, the mountains protect the flora and fauna of the region from errant Dark Magic, saving them from its corrupting influence. Both, however, do have to deal with the chilling cold and wind as a side effect. What few plants that grow outside of hidden caves are incredibly durable and can break even steel and the animals tend to either be hard to find or apex predators. The only group of humans that has perpetually survived in this region are the Glacies Tribe.

o The Tabora Desert is widely considered to be one of the most inhospitable regions of the continent. Hot and arid, the few species that can live here often processes several adaptations to ensure their continued survival. The Desert’s most infamous denizen is the Tabora Wyvern, which lives along the coastal parts of the Desert. Despite the preconceived notion that the desert is inhospitable, the Desert is home to the large Kingdom of Cheve, who’s citizens are well adapted to living in a hot desert.

o The Great Blight: To the west of Windmire lies the Great Blight. As the battles of the Great War raged, many of the dying Dark Dragons fled to this place to end their lives. As they passed from this plane, the Dark Magic that gave them their immense power began to leak from their massive forms into the ground itself, corrupting it. This still happens even to this day. If an adventure were to brave the Blight, they would see the decaying giant dragons, their bleached bones the only landmarks for miles. The Great Blight is by no means a safe region. Other than the Infinite Chasm, no other location on Ivron, perhaps the world even, is such a nexus for raw magical energy. Its corrupting affects can be seen everywhere; no plants grow in this desolate wasteland, and the only wildlife are either men so mutated they resemble beasts or even stranger creatures who feed off of the raw magic surrounding them. The land is inhospitable to human life, with no food sources and no water sources that do not cause the flesh to melt off the bone for simply being exposed to it. The Royal Nohrian Mage Academy does operate a small outpost on the eastern most border of the Blight in order to facilitate research into more advanced forms of Dark Magic, but every few years the facility must be destroyed and rebuilt as the complex itself tends comes to life and promptly devours all within.

The Infinite Mountains and the Infinite Chasm

· Basic History and geography

o According to legends, the creation of the Infinite Chasm occurred during the Great War as a result of one of the battles between the dragons themselves. Even skeptics who doubt the existence of the dragons have to concede that they know of no natural way for the Chasm to form other than some titanic calamity. In reality, the Chasm itself is only a singular feature to the mountain range known as the Infinite Range. The mountains dwarf all others on the continent by several thousand meters and stretch as far north as the Frozen Wastes and only end when they reach the coast. The Chasm itself runs along the absolute middle of the mountain range, separating it into two distinct halves. Even the range terminating at the sea doesn’t end the Chasm, as it continues on into the ocean and it is theorized that it continues deep into the water. While not as hazardous as the Great Blight, the Infinite Mountains are still one of the most inhospitable regions on the Ivron Continent. Magical energy leaking out of the Chasm itself has mutagenic properties, which quickly become apparent on any form of life that resides within the Mountains. Mountain Goats become far larger and aggressive, already powerful predators like bears become even stronger, even the plants themselves are affected, with most being poisonous and the herbivores adapting to be able to consume these plants. While humans can live on the outer portions of the Infinite Mountains without difficulty, all attempts by both Nohr and Hoshido to settle deeper in the range has been met with abject failure as those settlers either mutate into fell beasts or go insane. Despite this, both nations constantly construct and maintain fortresses deep within the mountains along the Chasm to prevent an easy invasion, though there is nothing easy about invading of the Chasm, as it is wracked by almost constant lighting storms. To prevent the loss of these men, the fortress garrisons are constantly rotated between posts outside of the Infinite Range and those within the mountains.

· The Path

o Despite dozens, if not hundreds, of expeditions mounted by both Nohr and Hoshido, there has been only one truly navigable path discovered across the Chasm. Even then, this path is not easy to cross. There are several pillars of rock that line this section of the Chasm that had traditionally been referred to as the Sentinels. Made of durable Darkstone, these lonely pillars are the closest thing to a natural bridge across the Chasm. During the 3^rd Nohr-Hoshido War, several clever (albeit foolhardy) Nohrian Generals managed to construct bridges linking these pillars and the two sides of the Chasm together. Despite this supposed advantage, by the time the Nohrians managed to make it to the Hoshido side of the Chasm, the Hoshidoans of the Owari Province had built a series of forts defending their approach. Not wishing to leave their rear vulnerable, the Nohrians countered by constructing their own series of fortresses. After the War ended, the Sentinels quickly became known as “The Path”. The bridges across the Path quickly became a no-mans-land, as both Nohr and Hoshido began focusing their efforts on both keeping their fortresses intact and their troops both whole and sane. Despite this, the Generals assigned to these forts from both sides constantly send out parties to ensure that their own bridges repaired to allow their own forces to invade if necessary. There are several smaller outposts on the larger Sentinels, and border skirmishes between Nohr and Hoshido over control of these outposts are not uncommon.

Edited June 27, 2016 by warchiefwilliams

Sentinel07 · June 28, 2016

Did someone say ideas thread? World building ideas incoming! Well, at least for Nohr and for the Bottomless Canyon. Still need to do Hoshido.

(edit: hrm, looks like I forgot to remove some stuff relating to my own writings trying to tie another continent into the fates world. All well)

(warning: Wall of text)

Nations and Landmarks on the Ivron Continent

Common Mythology-

· Basics

o In the creation myth of the world common to both Nohr and Hoshido, the Astral Dragons initially ruled over creation with a clearly established hierarchy, humans were the thralls of the dragons, though they were unaware of it, praising the dragons as gods. Over time, some of their number believed they should rule as opposed to those in charge and rebelled, becoming the Dark Dragons. They were led by the former 2^nd in command of the Astral Dragons, Anankos. In order to gain dominance over the Astral Dragons, they use a corrupted form of the creation magic (which later morphed into dark magic) to combat the Astral Dragons. Determined to gain a numerical advantage, the Dark Dragons freed humanity from thralldom for use against the Astral Dragons. They did this by informing the humans that they were slaves and by fighting against the Astral Dragons, they would guarantee their freedom, though they didn’t tell the newly freed humans that they would be able to keep their freedom after the rebellion. During the war, the cataclysmic conflict led to the creation of several of the barriers now common throughout the world, like the Infinite Chasm, the Maelstrom (a perpetual storm in the Eastern Sea off Hoshido) and the Europan Sea (Fates/Imperial Rewrite only). In the end, the Dark Dragons were nearly wiped out, their fallen forms coating the land that would become the Blight and slowly corrupting it. It was, however, a pyrrhic victory, as the few surviving Astral Dragons were forced to flee to the hidden realm of Touma, the original homeland of the Dragons, with their closest human followers. The few remaining Dark Dragons had no choice but to flee along with their brethren, nursing wounded psyches and resentment towards their thralls who had failed them, and to their former foes who they were now forced to live with for their survival. For the nations on the Europan continent, their mythology shares much with Nohr’s but rather than the Dark Dragons leading the rebellion, it was the human pantheon of those lands, rather than the dragons who broke the iron grip of the dragons, leading mankind to both freedom and salvation.

o In modern times, aspect of this creation myth have permeated across the culture of all nations on the Continent, though which aspects take precedence depends greatly on which side of the Chasm you are located. Typically, nations west of the Chasm have built their religions around the worship of the Dark Dragons, believing them to be the liberators of humanity and revile the Astral Dragons, seeing them as slave masters who robbed humanity of their free will. Conversely, nations to the east of the Chasm view the Astral Dragons as bringers of order to a chaotic world, and those who would follow the Dark Dragons are agents of chaos determined to replace their holy gods with fell ones whose disorder will mean the end of all things. In reality, both camps are simultaneously right and wrong about the nature of the Dragons. As for the Dragons themselves, no one has seen a true Astral or Dark Dragon for dozens of generations, though every noble dynasty or wealthy patrician likes to claim that they are the true descendants of the Dragons, though only the Plantagenets in Nohr and the Yamotos in Hoshido are descended from the Dragons. As for the Europans, their pantheon did exist as the leaders of the human rebellion, though they did collude with the Dark Dragons. That latter fact is oft forgotten by the Europan powers, who judge the dragons based on the feral Sun Dragons and Star Dragons in the Dolomite Mountains, little better than future mounts for the best warriors, not as the once-rulers of the world.

Kingdom of Nohr-

· Basic History

o Centered on the Kraken Crater, the Kingdom of Nohr is the central most kingdom on the western part of the Ivron continent. Despite its higher population, most of Nohr’s land continues to bear scars from the Great Dragon War of legend, with most of the land being ash wastelands caused by the volcanos of the Great Blight. As such, most of Nohr’s farmland produces only enough food to go around, meaning that famines can have a great effect on Nohr. The last great famine occurred during the reign of Garon’s great-grandfather, which was the incident that sparked Nohr’s initial expansion. The mountain range that dominates the northern section of the country, and the range that separates them from the Frozen Wastes, is rich in natural resources, including deep, high-quality iron. Before it’s expansionist phase began, Nohr’s economy was primarily based around selling weapons and metallic goods to the surrounding countries for their conflicts in exchange for food products. It was only after the rise of King Richard Plantagenet the 1^st (Garon’s great grandfather) that Nohr began to spread outwards to subjugate these territories rather than trade with them.

· Society

o While, like many nations on the Ivron continent, Nohr does operate underneath a feudal system of government, several societal aspects set it apart. The most notable is the underlying meritocracy that permeates all levels of Nohrian society. Due to the traditional shortage of foodstuffs and medicinal herbs within Nohr’s borders, its society developed a “survival of the fittest” mentality across all of its social strata. A commoner, living in Windmire, through tenacity and grit, can very easily become a Royal Knight while a noble who is feeble or otherwise unfit can end up spending his life as a criminal in Windmore’s Underground District. While the nobility is obvious better equipped than the commoners, it is not uncommon for a noble son to try to strike above his position, only to fall to an upstart commoner.

o This does have the side effect of creating a cutthroat culture within Nohr proper, and this aspect of Nohr’s culture was a direct cause of the Concubine Wars. Nohr’s culture is very unforgiving towards failure, and fittingly, failure is often rewarded with severe demotion at best and execution at worst. For example, a commander who loses a battle with a majority loss on his side and he survives the battle may be killed by his own men while returning to Nohr, and if he survives to return to Nohr, he may even face execution for his incompetence.

· Culture

o The culture of Nohr is a reflection of its society, dominance-oriented. The buildings of Nohr are intentionally built as large as possible to show the power of the builders and of those who order the construction. Many of the castles and fortresses dotting the Nohrian landscape are built using darkstone, a material that has significance within the Nohrian religion, and as such help to enforce their dominance over the land. Statues within Windmire are typically of heroes of old or of the Dark Dragons which freed humanity from the order of the Light Dragons. Occasionally, a statue of a current hero or commander will be erected within a city or a town, though if the hero fails, then it is not uncommon for the statue to be smashed.

o The religion of Nohr is focused around the worship of the Dark Dragons. While most of the populace only pays token respect to the Dark Dragons, there are plenty of cults dedicated to individual dragons that played a key role in the liberation of humanity from thralldom, the most influential one being for the Dragon Anankos, the one who first freed humanity. These cults typically mount expeditions into the Great Blight in an attempt to find relics from the Great War, but for what purpose they desire these relics are unknown.

· Geography

o Nohr’s territory is almost entirely unsuitable for farming or grazing. Only the hardiest crops and livestock can survive in the desolate landscape surrounding Windmire and nothing can survive within Nohr’s portion of the Great Blight. There is some arable land just south of the Frozen Wastes, but this can only support minimal levels of agriculture. As if the gods wanted to make up for this deficit, the many mountain ranges in the north of Nohr are rich in natural resources and metals, which fuel both Nohr’s economy and military. While the Great Blight regions have never given Nohr any immediate benefit, many of the Dark Dragon cults and Nohr’s Sorcerer Academy have outposts in the region to harvest ancient artefacts and magical relics from bygone eras. While officially the Kingdom proper consists only of a few Duchies, the Kingdom does boast a very high population density when compared to territories in both the Greater Nohrian Empire and Hoshido. Again, due to the fact that the region is not capable of producing enough foodstuff to feed this population, Nohr must either trade or conquer new territories for subsidence. Large mountain ranges, thick swamps and uninhabitable wastelands surround Nohr itself, making all invasion attempts incredibly risky propositions.

Greater Nohrian Empire

· Basic History

o The term “Greater Nohrian Empire” came about as Nohr began to expand their influence from the core of the Nohrian Kingdom into the surrounding city-states, duchies and tribal lands. In most cases, rather than try to directly integrate these varied territories with Nohr, they were instead converted into tributary states that provide resources to Nohr that the Kingdom could not produce or could not effectively produce on its own, specifically foodstuffs. The Greater Empire also acts as the Kingdom’s main connection with the rest of Ivron and beyond through major states like Port Dia and the Cheve Kingdom. While many of the territories to the south are recent additions to the Greater Empire, many of the ones surrounding the original Kingdom of Nohr have been tributary states for so long that they see themselves as Nohrians, with little memory of their previous culture. Functionally speaking, there is no true “Nohrian Empire” as theoretically, each of the individual kingdoms and states are autonomous entities. However, the combination of their oath of fealty to the King of Nohr and the gradual assimilation to Nohrian culture throughout the “Empire” has caused both outsiders and the population of this reason to refer to themselves as the Empire of Nohr.

· Society and culture

o The societies of the Greater Empire differ with each tribe, Duchy or city-state within the realm, but there are some consistencies between the different regions, namely their gradual adoption of Nohr’s cutthroat-style meritocracy. Many states in the early stages of integration are rewarded with additional resources and military support the more they give their own resources to Nohr, encouraging meritocracy on a macro level which often permeates into all aspects of their society.

· States within the Greater Nohrian Empire

o The Core States, or those states that were originally subjugated by Nohr, are very similar to Nohr in terms of their society and culture. More often than not, the people of these regions see themselves as Nohrians, not remembering their original culture. The Core is the wealthiest part of the Empire, and is home to a disproportionate amount of nobles and merchants from other states in the Empire. The outer reaches of the Core are not as loyal to Nohr, as these duchies and cities still have some record of being independent of Windmire. However, with each passing year, more of those who remember their lands being independent pass away, and a newer generation who considers themselves Nohrians replaces them.

o The State of Macarath was originally known for being a bandit kingdom, which raided both the Duchies that became the Core Regions as well as the southern states around the Tabora Desert. Despite its rough reputation, its key position in fertile land in the middle between the Devil’s Bog and the Tabora Desert made it an ideal border-state for the initial Empire. Macarath has long been integrated within the Greater Empire, but many within its borders have not forgotten their old culture as bandits and mercenaries. Most of the foot soldiers found within Nohrian Armies come from Macarath, where the repeated raids across the Infinite Chasm toward Hoshido forge them into a disciplined force. The Maracarathians have taken a bit too well to Nohr’s cutthroat culture, and it is more bloody than Nohr on a bad day. Despite Macarath’s constantly fluctuating political field between various Syndicate groups, they remain loyal to Nohr over all else. This loyalty is what caused the Nohrian Royalty to establish their Summer Palace within the Kingdom of Macarath, rather than within Nohr.

§ Note: During the 4^th Nohr-Hoshido War (the one prior to the one in Fates) most of Macarath’s farmland is salted by vindictive Hoshidoan soldiers. This maneuver destroyed much of the Kingdom of Macarath’s arable land and it is predicted to either cause mass famines across the Empire or be the main causus belli for an invasion of Hoshido.

o The City-State of Dia is a Merchant Republic that has sworn fealty towards Nohr. Officially, the state is ruled by a council of wealthy Patricians, however true political power lies with several Nohrian Nobles who, through connections with both Nohrian and Dian Merchants, are able to control trade through the Port City. The Patricians do not mind so long as they are making a profit through trade with other members of the Empire, Hoshidoan samurai seeking quality weapons, and merchants from the mysterious Imperium of Verdia across the sea. Culturally, Port Dia is a hotspot for the arts, as the Patricians pay well for great works of art in order to boost their own prestige compared to their rival Patricians. It is a common saying in this state that “Muse is the city of music, but Port Dia is the city of high art!”

o The Glacies Tribe, more commonly known as the Ice Tribe, is a semi-nomadic tribe that makes its home in the Southern Alps Mountain Range that borders the Tabora Desert and the Devil’s Bog. The Tribe’s best known ability is to manipulate the weather of their frozen home through magic, allows them to both create ideal weather zones for their agriculture (consisting of hearty mountain yaks and certain crops found in caves) and to defend their lands from interlopers who would threaten them. All members of the Glacies Tribe are magically adept to some degree, and a significant portion of the sorcerers in Nohr’s armies either is directly from the Tribe or can trace their heritage to the Southern Alps. Unlike many of the states within the Greater Empire, the Glacies Tribe has always been fiercely independent. While they do benefit from being a part of the Empire, as they have access to trade goods and knowledge that they would not have had otherwise, the Tribe’s nomadic nature and history of surviving in what is considered to be one of Ivorn’s inhospitable zones means they would rather rely on their own abilities than another nation. Recently, there have been rumors that Nohr, under Garon Plantagenet, has been maintaining the Glacies Tribe’s loyalty through intimidation, supposedly holding Chief Kilma’s heirs, his twin daughters, hostage somewhere. There is some concern that at some point, the Glacies Tribe will rebel against Nohr.

o The Cheve Kingdom is a large region to the south of Devil’s Bog and the Southern Alps. Similar to Nohr, most of cheve’s land is unsuitable for agriculture, though since Chev has a far smaller population than Nohr, a lack of food is less of a concern. To further alleviate the potential for a food crisis, the Citizens of Cheve, not including the nomadic tribes that live within the Tabora Desert, rely on the sea for subsidence. With most of Chevalier’s food either coming from the sea, the all but a small portion of the arable land is used to breed and raise horses, making Cheve the premier place to acquire mounts for both Hoshido and Nohr. In addition to horseback cavalry, the Tabora Wyvern, which is commonly found in the Kingdom’s western fringes, is one of the easiest monstrous mounts to be both captured and trained, making Cheve a mecca for knights across the Greater Empire seeking a better mount. Chev is the most recent inclusion into the Greater Empire, having been subjugated right after Garon took the throne after his father died in a border skirmish with the desert kingdom. Many of the Kingdom’s citizens, a fiercely independent people, resent being a part of Nohr, seeing both Nohr and the Greater Empire as parasites that feed off the success of other lands and gives little in return. The Chevalier Incident, where King Yamoto Sumeragi of Hoshido was lured into Chevalier City with the promise of a ceasefire and killed along with most of the Yamoto Branch Family in an ambush led personally by King Garon, only cemented the Nohr’s dishonorable reputation with both the commoners and nobility of Chev. As of now, there are several resistance movements within Chev; however, they are far from united, being split along ideological lines between those who seek more autonomy within the Empire and those who seek total independence.

o While they used to be far more widespread across The Forest of the Forlorn and the Southern Alps, a genocidal push by Hoshidoan troops during the Cherry Offensive ten years before the events of Fates pushed the remnants of the Wolfskin Tribes onto the mountain that became known as Garou Peak. While many of the various tribes continued to nurse grudges against one another, the tribes are united behind the leadership of Head Chief Keaton, who, despite his tendency to disappear to explore the world, has the leadership skills to ensure that the Wolfskin will follow him and ensure their survival. The Wolfskin have a bit of a tense relationship with the Greater Empire. While it isn’t uncommon to see at least one Wolfskin section in each of the Empire’s five Legions, any attempt to either tax or place human nobles over Garou Peak has resulted in their corpses lining the approach to the Peak as a warning. As no human has ever been beyond the border villages along the foothills of Garou Peak, no one knows how many Wolfskin are left, and rather than attack an unknown foe, the Empire has elected to leave the Wolfskin alone. There is a governor of Garou Peak, however, the position mostly exists as a formality. The Wolfskin Chieftains typically elect one of their own who will represent then should the need arise.

o While not technically a part of the Greater Empire anymore, the Principality of Nestra still has very close ties with both Nohr and the Greater Empire. A merchant republic similar to the Republic of Dia, Nestra, and its capitol of Cyrkensia is a major trade port where the wealth of the world is on display. Another similarity with the Republic of Dia is the almost obsessive way that the city’s wealthy, both feudal nobles and merchant patricians spend money on art. Though unlike the Dian nobles who spend on physical art like paintings or statues, Nestrans prefer to invest in drama and music composers. Politically, the Congress of Nestra do what they can to maintain a stance of absolute neutrality to the various conflicts across the Ivron continent, and despite the wealth to be had for anyone who owns the state, Cyrkensia’s position on low-lying swampland and the city’s extensive fortifications makes invasion a difficult proposition.

Geography of the Greater Empire

· Basics

o Similar to Nohr itself, the Greater Empire is home to several desolate or otherwise uninhabitable regions created either by natural processes or by corruption from the Great War. Despite the apparent desolate nature of the Empire, the land is rich in raw resources that have provided the states of the Empire with wealth and the potential for greater power, though only Nohr has capitalized on that potential.

· Major Regions

o The Forest of the Forlorn is a vast swamp located in the northern portion of Makaras and southern Nohr. While obstinately fairly normal for a swamp, the Forest is awash with magical energy blowing in from the Great Blight. While not as dangerous as the energy that covers the Infinite Mountains, the magical energy crossing the dark woodlands still has had a negative effect on the creatures and plants within the region. Carnivorous plants are commonplace and even the smallest mouse has heightened aggression and strength compared to creatures and plants elsewhere. In recent decades, the Forest has become increasingly populated by Faceless; including the earlier rejected Faceless models, modern Faceless and the nearly immobile Golems. These Faceless wander aimlessly through the woods, searching for travelers and larger creatures to feast upon. It isn’t uncommon for brave, or foolish, sorcerers to brave the Forest of the Forlorn to enthrall as many Faceless as they can, but most end up just being the Faceless’s dinner.

o The Southern Alps Range borders both the Forest of the Forlon and the Tabora Desert. Home to several of the world’s tallest mountains, this mountain range helps to divide the central portion of the Empire from the southern coasts. Unlike the Forest of the Forlorn to the North, the mountains protect the flora and fauna of the region from errant Dark Magic, saving them from its corrupting influence. Both, however, do have to deal with the chilling cold and wind as a side effect. What few plants that grow outside of hidden caves are incredibly durable and can break even steel and the animals tend to either be hard to find or apex predators. The only group of humans that has perpetually survived in this region are the Glacies Tribe.

o The Tabora Desert is widely considered to be one of the most inhospitable regions of the continent. Hot and arid, the few species that can live here often processes several adaptations to ensure their continued survival. The Desert’s most infamous denizen is the Tabora Wyvern, which lives along the coastal parts of the Desert. Despite the preconceived notion that the desert is inhospitable, the Desert is home to the large Kingdom of Cheve, who’s citizens are well adapted to living in a hot desert.

o The Great Blight: To the west of Windmire lies the Great Blight. As the battles of the Great War raged, many of the dying Dark Dragons fled to this place to end their lives. As they passed from this plane, the Dark Magic that gave them their immense power began to leak from their massive forms into the ground itself, corrupting it. This still happens even to this day. If an adventure were to brave the Blight, they would see the decaying giant dragons, their bleached bones the only landmarks for miles. The Great Blight is by no means a safe region. Other than the Infinite Chasm, no other location on Ivron, perhaps the world even, is such a nexus for raw magical energy. Its corrupting affects can be seen everywhere; no plants grow in this desolate wasteland, and the only wildlife are either men so mutated they resemble beasts or even stranger creatures who feed off of the raw magic surrounding them. The land is inhospitable to human life, with no food sources and no water sources that do not cause the flesh to melt off the bone for simply being exposed to it. The Royal Nohrian Mage Academy does operate a small outpost on the eastern most border of the Blight in order to facilitate research into more advanced forms of Dark Magic, but every few years the facility must be destroyed and rebuilt as the complex itself tends comes to life and promptly devours all within.

The Infinite Mountains and the Infinite Chasm

· Basic History and geography

o According to legends, the creation of the Infinite Chasm occurred during the Great War as a result of one of the battles between the dragons themselves. Even skeptics who doubt the existence of the dragons have to concede that they know of no natural way for the Chasm to form other than some titanic calamity. In reality, the Chasm itself is only a singular feature to the mountain range known as the Infinite Range. The mountains dwarf all others on the continent by several thousand meters and stretch as far north as the Frozen Wastes and only end when they reach the coast. The Chasm itself runs along the absolute middle of the mountain range, separating it into two distinct halves. Even the range terminating at the sea doesn’t end the Chasm, as it continues on into the ocean and it is theorized that it continues deep into the water. While not as hazardous as the Great Blight, the Infinite Mountains are still one of the most inhospitable regions on the Ivron Continent. Magical energy leaking out of the Chasm itself has mutagenic properties, which quickly become apparent on any form of life that resides within the Mountains. Mountain Goats become far larger and aggressive, already powerful predators like bears become even stronger, even the plants themselves are affected, with most being poisonous and the herbivores adapting to be able to consume these plants. While humans can live on the outer portions of the Infinite Mountains without difficulty, all attempts by both Nohr and Hoshido to settle deeper in the range has been met with abject failure as those settlers either mutate into fell beasts or go insane. Despite this, both nations constantly construct and maintain fortresses deep within the mountains along the Chasm to prevent an easy invasion, though there is nothing easy about invading of the Chasm, as it is wracked by almost constant lighting storms. To prevent the loss of these men, the fortress garrisons are constantly rotated between posts outside of the Infinite Range and those within the mountains.

· The Path

o Despite dozens, if not hundreds, of expeditions mounted by both Nohr and Hoshido, there has been only one truly navigable path discovered across the Chasm. Even then, this path is not easy to cross. There are several pillars of rock that line this section of the Chasm that had traditionally been referred to as the Sentinels. Made of durable Darkstone, these lonely pillars are the closest thing to a natural bridge across the Chasm. During the 3^rd Nohr-Hoshido War, several clever (albeit foolhardy) Nohrian Generals managed to construct bridges linking these pillars and the two sides of the Chasm together. Despite this supposed advantage, by the time the Nohrians managed to make it to the Hoshido side of the Chasm, the Hoshidoans of the Owari Province had built a series of forts defending their approach. Not wishing to leave their rear vulnerable, the Nohrians countered by constructing their own series of fortresses. After the War ended, the Sentinels quickly became known as “The Path”. The bridges across the Path quickly became a no-mans-land, as both Nohr and Hoshido began focusing their efforts on both keeping their fortresses intact and their troops both whole and sane. Despite this, the Generals assigned to these forts from both sides constantly send out parties to ensure that their own bridges repaired to allow their own forces to invade if necessary. There are several smaller outposts on the larger Sentinels, and border skirmishes between Nohr and Hoshido over control of these outposts are not uncommon.

Something tells me you put more thought into this than Intelligent Systems. :)

Rezzy · June 28, 2016

I started a thread kind of like this a while back. Alternate Conquests Story Idea

Edited June 28, 2016 by Rezzy

TheWerdna · June 28, 2016

I strongly disagree that the Nohrian path should be a revolution against Garon. If I chose to side with Nohr, I want to fight for Nohr. If Conquest was about a revolution from the get go, it would be no different from Birthright, and where's the fun in that? I instead propose to have Nohr be fighting for legitimate reasons; kind of like Trabant in Thracia (I say in Thracia because his more sympathetic personality was almost entirely there).

I think a middle ground could work. Like Conquest up to the slime garon reveal could play out the same, but instead of the stupid plan Corrin would then realize that to save BOTH Nohr and Hoshido he has to rebel. Perhaps then have the next third of the story secretly gathering support and undermining the war efforts while still pretending to follow Garon's orders, the finally have the last third of the route be actual open rebelion.

Making Fates' Stories Better

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