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Death Penalty and Abortion, the overlap (or lack thereof) of opinions

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102 members have voted

  1. 1. I...

    • Support both the Death Penalty and Abortion.
      21
    • Support the Death Penalty but not Abortion.
      17
    • Support Abortion but not the Death Penalty.
      48
    • Support neither the Death Penalty nor Abortion.
      16


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3 hours ago, Emperor Petitt said:

I am more than happy to scale down the US military, I'm tired of paying for the defense budget of Europe.

It's in the best interests of the US to support Europe though, since Western Europe has been historically a shield against Russian influence.

Now, please don't feel offended by what I'm saying, but I feel libertarianism is one of the most bizarre political stances that exist nowadays. It denies at least 500 years of political development. In political science terms, it's almost like trying to pass geocentrism as a valid scientific thesis today.

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1 hour ago, Cerberus87 said:

It's in the best interests of the US to support Europe though, since Western Europe has been historically a shield against Russian influence.

Now, please don't feel offended by what I'm saying, but I feel libertarianism is one of the most bizarre political stances that exist nowadays. It denies at least 500 years of political development. In political science terms, it's almost like trying to pass geocentrism as a valid scientific thesis today.

I find it even more bizarre that people forget that the bigger the government, the more likely it will fail and collapse. Case in point Charles V's empire that due to the many problems in the Empire, the problem of the Protestant reformation was ignored until the Thirty Years War, one of the bloodiest and brutal wars of the dawn of modern Europe.

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I am against both of these things.

In both of these cases, it's murder. The executioners are nothing better than the murderers or criminals themselves. And I think that there is nothing to be gained by having a criminal (or in a lot of cases, innocent people) killed. Wouldn't it be better for society if they would get rehabiliated? Send them to a prison, and let them commit Social works. Let them clean toilets, let them care for animals, let them cook dinners, let them sport, and I can think of a lot of other things. Rehabilitation is something I don't see any negative things in. Many murderers are not mentally well. Which is another reason why they should be rehabilitated, so that they may learn how to better their life. If the mental illness doesn't go away, them keep them in Jail or a mental hospital to at least care for them, and let them learn new things, so that they will get off the criminal path. 

The only reason I would be for abortion, is if it would endanger the mother or child's life. In any other cases, i'm strictly against it. Because, it's murder. If you get raped, why would that give you permission to murder an unborn child? While they are unborn, they are very much alive. Giving someone permission to do abortion when they are raped, is like giving yourself permission to murder your little sister because your father abused you. That doesn't make any sense, does it? No, it doesn't. I have seen the argument of getting pregnant under influence, and it's the dumbest reason I have ever heard. THEY choose to drink. It's their choice. If you get pregnant while doing that, that's YOUR problem, not the baby's! You're really just murdering a child who had nothing to do with any of your problems. Especially people who knew that they could get a child, but didn't do much about it, and DID get pregnant, and then get abortion because they didn't want a child, are despicable people.

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2 hours ago, Michelaar said:

I am against both of these things.

In both of these cases, it's murder. The executioners are nothing better than the murderers or criminals themselves. And I think that there is nothing to be gained by having a criminal (or in a lot of cases, innocent people) killed. Wouldn't it be better for society if they would get rehabiliated? Send them to a prison, and let them commit Social works. Let them clean toilets, let them care for animals, let them cook dinners, let them sport, and I can think of a lot of other things. Rehabilitation is something I don't see any negative things in. Many murderers are not mentally well. Which is another reason why they should be rehabilitated, so that they may learn how to better their life. If the mental illness doesn't go away, them keep them in Jail or a mental hospital to at least care for them, and let them learn new things, so that they will get off the criminal path. 

The only reason I would be for abortion, is if it would endanger the mother or child's life. In any other cases, i'm strictly against it. Because, it's murder. If you get raped, why would that give you permission to murder an unborn child? While they are unborn, they are very much alive. Giving someone permission to do abortion when they are raped, is like giving yourself permission to murder your little sister because your father abused you. That doesn't make any sense, does it? No, it doesn't. I have seen the argument of getting pregnant under influence, and it's the dumbest reason I have ever heard. THEY choose to drink. It's their choice. If you get pregnant while doing that, that's YOUR problem, not the baby's! You're really just murdering a child who had nothing to do with any of your problems. Especially people who knew that they could get a child, but didn't do much about it, and DID get pregnant, and then get abortion because they didn't want a child, are despicable people.

I do agree with you on both points, though I'd also like to bring up secondary evidence to enforce your later idea. People seem to forget the day after pill exists with a 90-85% effectiveness, and I'm positive that the price of 50 USD is far cheaper than an abortion. In fact for those that still failed, why would one sinply go through 8 months of pregnancy only to then think of an abortion? It's ludicrous at that stage, why wouldn't they do it in the first 3 months if at any time? I swear such incompetence by those wishing for an abortion at that stage can only be matched by Scotland's public services which are far worse than where I live.

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2 hours ago, Michelaar said:

I am against both of these things.

In both of these cases, it's murder. The executioners are nothing better than the murderers or criminals themselves. And I think that there is nothing to be gained by having a criminal (or in a lot of cases, innocent people) killed. Wouldn't it be better for society if they would get rehabiliated? Send them to a prison, and let them commit Social works. Let them clean toilets, let them care for animals, let them cook dinners, let them sport, and I can think of a lot of other things. Rehabilitation is something I don't see any negative things in. Many murderers are not mentally well. Which is another reason why they should be rehabilitated, so that they may learn how to better their life. If the mental illness doesn't go away, them keep them in Jail or a mental hospital to at least care for them, and let them learn new things, so that they will get off the criminal path. 

The only reason I would be for abortion, is if it would endanger the mother or child's life. In any other cases, i'm strictly against it. Because, it's murder. If you get raped, why would that give you permission to murder an unborn child? While they are unborn, they are very much alive. Giving someone permission to do abortion when they are raped, is like giving yourself permission to murder your little sister because your father abused you. That doesn't make any sense, does it? No, it doesn't. I have seen the argument of getting pregnant under influence, and it's the dumbest reason I have ever heard. THEY choose to drink. It's their choice. If you get pregnant while doing that, that's YOUR problem, not the baby's! You're really just murdering a child who had nothing to do with any of your problems. Especially people who knew that they could get a child, but didn't do much about it, and DID get pregnant, and then get abortion because they didn't want a child, are despicable people.

You can't rehabilitate a taken life. Even if a murderer was able to be released by a parole board, their single criminal act will haunt them forever. And I choose to believe that those who commit many murders, whether it be over a period of time or in a spree, either are motivated by a mental illness they can't understand, or are motivated by hatred, possibly both. Those who kill because of the latter aren't mentally ill, they're disgusting entitled bastards that deserve no less than death. Also, what is it with such a lowly view of executioners? I don't understand why people think most executioners get off on killing people. Is execution prohibitively expensive? All things considered? Yes. But is it necessary? I would probably say only in the cases of Dylan Roof and Zhokar Tsarnaev, the two most dangerous criminals this country has seen this century, and few others.

As for abortion, I'm sorry, but as a woman, having to bear a rapist's love child for the next 9 months, only to give him or her away to avoid having to remember the trauma of their conception, would be even more irreparably damaging to the psyche than the act itself and the guilt that comes from an abortion. That comparison you drew is incredibly absurd and equally tactless. If I were you, I would make the comparison of burning down your house after someone broke and entered it and stole the most expensive things in it. It makes more sense, because I feel abortion personally is wrong, just as committing arson on your house is wrong, but in either case, the offended party is trying to recover something that might never be returned to them, or in the case of rape, will never be returned. Sure, you can judge those who make poor decisions, but what is the point if they know better than anyone that what they did is wrong. The only time I find abortion to be despicable is when a non-fatal genetic issue is found to be present in the fetus (i.e. Down's Syndrome) and the parents are considering abortion due to "the child will suffer." That's lazy of them. Most parents don't care what issues pop up with their children, and love them as any other parent would. Killing that unborn child due to perceived suffering (it's only suffering if the parents are incompetent) is selfish and lazy.

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4 minutes ago, Hylian Air Force said:

You can't rehabilitate a taken life. Even if a murderer was able to be released by a parole board, their single criminal act will haunt them forever. And I choose to believe that those who commit many murders, whether it be over a period of time or in a spree, either are motivated by a mental illness they can't understand, or are motivated by hatred, possibly both. Those who kill because of the latter aren't mentally ill, they're disgusting entitled bastards that deserve no less than death. Also, what is it with such a lowly view of executioners? I don't understand why people think most executioners get off on killing people. Is execution prohibitively expensive? All things considered? Yes. But is it necessary? I would probably say only in the cases of Dylan Roof and Zhokar Tsarnaev, the two most dangerous criminals this country has seen this century, and few others.

As for abortion, I'm sorry, but as a woman, having to bear a rapist's love child for the next 9 months, only to give him or her away to avoid having to remember the trauma of their conception, would be even more irreparably damaging to the psyche than the act itself and the guilt that comes from an abortion. That comparison you drew is incredibly absurd and equally tactless. If I were you, I would make the comparison of burning down your house after someone broke and entered it and stole the most expensive things in it. It makes more sense, because I feel abortion personally is wrong, just as committing arson on your house is wrong, but in either case, the offended party is trying to recover something that might never be returned to them, or in the case of rape, will never be returned. Sure, you can judge those who make poor decisions, but what is the point if they know better than anyone that what they did is wrong. The only time I find abortion to be despicable is when a non-fatal genetic issue is found to be present in the fetus (i.e. Down's Syndrome) and the parents are considering abortion due to "the child will suffer." That's lazy of them. Most parents don't care what issues pop up with their children, and love them as any other parent would. Killing that unborn child due to perceived suffering (it's only suffering if the parents are incompetent) is selfish and lazy.

Again, with the first point about death penalty, I disagree. Again, what would killing people achieve? Vengeance? Why would we want that? And no, I don't think everyone should get back to society, but at least have them do things that are useful for society, in their prison itself for example. I just don't agree with killing people off, no matter the reason, and I'm glad the death penalty is banned where i'm from.

Yes, I should have picked a different argument, I will admit. But being raped is still no excuse to kill off an innocent party to all this. It just feels so wrong to me. And if people get themselves drunk, very much know this could happen, and it does happen, why should they kill someone off for that? That doesn't make any sense. In pretty much every case, I find abortion just as bad as murder.

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21 hours ago, Hylian Air Force said:

You fail to grasp that the reason we don't have the same level of healthcare as the rest of the world is because we have a military that's drunk on it's own power. If the field of medicine had the 600+ billion dollar budget that the US military does, I would sure as hell hope my healthcare was free and universal, even if I had to pay in the amount of time I would have to wait. I also understand that taxes are necessary (and that the US uses them as poorly as they do), but the 16th amendment was only the result of a decision from the Supreme Court, which means that as an amendment originating from the bench, should first be reexamined and, if necessary, repealed and replaced with a law that has equal emphasis on business taxes, sales taxes, excise taxes, and income taxes, as well as a flat tax of 25% of everyone's income, down to about 16,000 a year, which would be taxable at 10%, down to $9,000, which wouldn't be taxed (9,000 is close to the amount people on Social Security make every year, so yeah, not taxing the disabled or the elderly).

Sure, the military industrial complex is something both the left and the right have been railing about for years, and it seems like a lot of "defense" spending the US does is actually offense spending and that's unlikely to change soon, but it is pretty embarrassing for a country like the US that easily has the resources.

57 minutes ago, Emperor Petitt said:

I swear such incompetence by those wishing for an abortion at that stage can only be matched by Scotland's public services which are far worse than where I live.

What public services are you referring to?

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1 hour ago, Emperor Petitt said:

I do agree with you on both points, though I'd also like to bring up secondary evidence to enforce your later idea. People seem to forget the day after pill exists with a 90-85% effectiveness, and I'm positive that the price of 50 USD is far cheaper than an abortion. In fact for those that still failed, why would one sinply go through 8 months of pregnancy only to then think of an abortion? It's ludicrous at that stage, why wouldn't they do it in the first 3 months if at any time? I swear such incompetence by those wishing for an abortion at that stage can only be matched by Scotland's public services which are far worse than where I live.

Strange as it might sound, it is somehow possible to go eight months without realizing your even pregnant.

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On 4/29/2017 at 5:14 AM, Cerberus87 said:

I don't find the conservative take on it hypocritical, because their opposition to abortion does show the conservatives value life, to an extent. 

The accusation of hypocrisy typically comes from the way conservatives dismiss and defund life after it is born.

It starts with the outrageous bills for birth and the lack of maternity care/leave (care: in many European countries, a health visitor comes to check up on you and the baby after birth. Sometimes home help is assigned. After I left the hospital in the U.S. there was not a single call or follow-up done. In my opinion, the health needs of both baby and parent - both physical and mental - are often far greater after birth). It extends to very little support for poorer families, the cutback of free meals in schools, the shaming of food stamps (a very low cost to the taxpayer) and extends all the way to adulthood, with barriers to low-income families at every turn (not to mention the impact of the war against drugs.

Also it's worth noting that abortion wasn't actually a conservative concern until it was brought up as a political weapon in the 70s/80s. 

I don't see the valuing of life in only protecting zygotes and fetuses; we're not even talking about babies, since no one goes around terminating viable babies without a fatal disease, and infanticide is already illegal. 

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On 4/29/2017 at 5:14 AM, Cerberus87 said:

I don't find the conservative take on it hypocritical, because their opposition to abortion does show the conservatives value life, to an extent. 

The accusation of hypocrisy typically comes from the way conservatives dismiss and defund life after it is born.

It starts with the outrageous bills for birth and the lack of maternity care/leave (care: in many European countries, a health visitor comes to check up on you and the baby after birth. Sometimes home help is assigned. After I left the hospital in the U.S. there was not a single call or follow-up done. In my opinion, the health needs of both baby and parent - both physical and mental - are often far greater after birth). It extends to very little support for poorer families, the cutback of free meals in schools, the shaming of food stamps (a very low cost to the taxpayer) and extends all the way to adulthood, with barriers to low-income families at every turn (not to mention the impact of the war against drugs.

Also it's worth noting that abortion wasn't actually a conservative concern until it was brought up as a political weapon in the 70s/80s. 

I don't see the valuing of life in only protecting zygotes and fetuses; we're not even talking about babies, since no one goes around terminating viable babies without a fatal disease, and infanticide is already illegal. 

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4 minutes ago, Res said:

The accusation of hypocrisy typically comes from the way conservatives dismiss and defund life after it is born.

It starts with the outrageous bills for birth and the lack of maternity care/leave (care: in many European countries, a health visitor comes to check up on you and the baby after birth. Sometimes home help is assigned. After I left the hospital in the U.S. there was not a single call or follow-up done. In my opinion, the health needs of both baby and parent - both physical and mental - are often far greater after birth). It extends to very little support for poorer families, the cutback of free meals in schools, the shaming of food stamps (a very low cost to the taxpayer) and extends all the way to adulthood, with barriers to low-income families at every turn (not to mention the impact of the war against drugs.

Also it's worth noting that abortion wasn't actually a conservative concern until it was brought up as a political weapon in the 70s/80s. 

I don't see the valuing of life in only protecting zygotes and fetuses; we're not even talking about babies, since no one goes around terminating viable babies without a fatal disease, and infanticide is already illegal. 

The US isn't particularly good during the pregnancy either though.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/08/24/health/maternal-mortality-trends-double-texas/

Edited by Mortarion

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Yes! And I've mentioned before that I incurred $11,000 in medical bills before my second kid was even born (that's with insurance and that was only my portion) so I can fully believe people are discouraged from seeking medical attention during pregnancy. And I was working three jobs until I was over 40 weeks which in itself was pretty stressful.  

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26 minutes ago, Res said:

Yes! And I've mentioned before that I incurred $11,000 in medical bills before my second kid was even born (that's with insurance and that was only my portion) so I can fully believe people are discouraged from seeking medical attention during pregnancy. And I was working three jobs until I was over 40 weeks which in itself was pretty stressful.  

Yeah, it's hard to take claims that they care about the lives of unborn children when they're all but trying to make pregnancy as difficult as possible.

Funny how they claim life is priceless and yet their only solutions for lowering abortion rates are the ones that wouldn't cost any money and endanger the mother's life rather than the fetus'.

Edited by Mortarion

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On 30.4.2017 at 1:37 AM, Emperor Petitt said:

I'm not saying for a ban on abortion or a constitution of the death penalty, but I'll avoid my death penalty talk as we both agree it should go even for different reasons. Abortion on the other hand I'm against using federal funds to give, for example Planed Parenthood, cash they extorted to a cause one may or may not support. I'm saying let it be legal, I just don't want to be forced by point of gun to give human number xxx-xx-xxxx, the cash to pay for an abortion when I don't know this person and I have nothing to gain. However if someone wants to do it voluntarily, go right ahead, I won't stop you. I just don't think one should have to do something without his consent.

I realize this is a few day old already, but I still wanted to reply: Are you against any form of tax money going towards abortion in general or do you just have a problem with women getting pregnant on accident and then deciding against having a child (and therefore an abortion)?

If it's just the latter, you really shouldn't have anything to worry about regarding government funds going towards causes you disapprove off. I know that the government "wasting" its money on rectifying other people's "mistakes" is one of the Republicans' most favourite talking points (besides "But think of the children!!!" ofc), but even though they like to make you believe that you're paying for other people's abortions, you really aren't.

There does exist a law called Hyde Amendment which is in effect since 1976 already and prohibits " the use of federal funds to pay for abortion except to save the life of the woman, or if the pregnancy arises from incest or rape". And because those three reasons for abortion are the ones that even pro-lifers commonly enough agree with, I really don't get why some people are still so much in arms about Planned Parenthood and such?

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5 hours ago, Sias said:

I realize this is a few day old already, but I still wanted to reply: Are you against any form of tax money going towards abortion in general or do you just have a problem with women getting pregnant on accident and then deciding against having a child (and therefore an abortion)?

If it's just the latter, you really shouldn't have anything to worry about regarding government funds going towards causes you disapprove off. I know that the government "wasting" its money on rectifying other people's "mistakes" is one of the Republicans' most favourite talking points (besides "But think of the children!!!" ofc), but even though they like to make you believe that you're paying for other people's abortions, you really aren't.

There does exist a law called Hyde Amendment which is in effect since 1976 already and prohibits " the use of federal funds to pay for abortion except to save the life of the woman, or if the pregnancy arises from incest or rape". And because those three reasons for abortion are the ones that even pro-lifers commonly enough agree with, I really don't get why some people are still so much in arms about Planned Parenthood and such?

Taxation is money taken from extortion, I'm not against giving money to someone that wants an abortion if someone wants to do that. What I am against is forcing someone to pay for it by point of gun. I'm a card carrying Libertarian in the US not a Republican after all. If I was a mob boss running a protection racket, and I gave some of the cash I took from people to give someone else the money for an abortion, I'm still a criminal. I do know federal cash goes to businesses that make a profit, planned parenthood is one of these businesses, this is corporatism and has more in common with socialist ideas. The morality of an abortion has nothing to do with it, it could be a gun factory or a video game developer and I'd say the same thing.

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For the record, Planned Parenthood receives federal funds through Medicaid and Title X reimbursements for preventative care. The government doesn't give Planned Parenthood cash for PP to distribute as it wishes. Nor, if you're a non-Medicaid/Title X recipient, are you benefiting from government funding if you seek services at Planned Parenthood.

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2 minutes ago, Res said:

For the record, Planned Parenthood receives federal funds through Medicaid and Title X reimbursements for preventative care. The government doesn't give Planned Parenthood cash for PP to distribute as it wishes. Nor, if you're a non-Medicaid/Title X recipient, are you benefiting from government funding if you seek services at Planned Parenthood.

It is still getting cash from the government, which is a large scale protection racket. It could be getting it from the Mafia with the same restrictions and I'd still be against the source of funds.

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Your original post talked about federal funds being used for abortion; they aren't, though. Every person pays for their own abortion (except in the cases Sias mentioned). And are you therefore against Medicaid, and against other medical institutions being reimbursed by Medicaid for medical treatments? 

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14 minutes ago, Res said:

Your original post talked about federal funds being used for abortion; they aren't, though. Every person pays for their own abortion (except in the cases Sias mentioned). And are you therefore against Medicaid, and against other medical institutions being reimbursed by Medicaid for medical treatments? 

Considering those caused the healthcare crisis by artificially stimulating demand, and made it impossible for me and my father to pay for treatments for my now dead mother, yes I am.

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2 hours ago, Emperor Petitt said:

Taxation is money taken from extortion, I'm not against giving money to someone that wants an abortion if someone wants to do that. What I am against is forcing someone to pay for it by point of gun. I'm a card carrying Libertarian in the US not a Republican after all. If I was a mob boss running a protection racket, and I gave some of the cash I took from people to give someone else the money for an abortion, I'm still a criminal. I do know federal cash goes to businesses that make a profit, planned parenthood is one of these businesses, this is corporatism and has more in common with socialist ideas. The morality of an abortion has nothing to do with it, it could be a gun factory or a video game developer and I'd say the same thing.

You sound ridiculous. Taxation is not extortion, that would mean the government takes money from you while giving nothing in return. I suppose it's extortion if a landlord asks the occupants of his building to pay rent as well?

Second of all, it's not like PP is a bank that will screw whoever it can in order to maximise a bottom line. Planned Parenthood provides an important healthcare service. Did you not see the link I posted about pregnancy-related deaths?

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2 minutes ago, Mortarion said:

You sound ridiculous. Taxation is not extortion, that would mean the government takes money from you while giving nothing in return.

And what's the punishment for not paying taxes, at best you get thrown into a cell, at worst they kill you. Also extortion is must commonly used through a protection racket, and you do get something out of that, the same promise that your business won't suffer from accidents. Getting nothing in return is robbery, a different thing entirely. Even in the case of the landlord, does he then throw you into his personal dungeon and mentally torture you or shoot you in the head?

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1 minute ago, Emperor Petitt said:

And what's the punishment for not paying taxes, at best you get thrown into a cell, at worst they kill you.

Fucking what?! Show me how the Government kills you for not paying tax, because google is google is giving me nothing.

5 minutes ago, Emperor Petitt said:

Also extortion is must commonly used through a protection racket, and you do get something out of that, the same promise that your business won't suffer from accidents. 

Right, so the Government getting money to provide for all the things that make society work is exactly the same as paying a mob so that they won't attack you? Bullshit. Explain to me how the Government putting money into healthcare, social services, education, ETC in any way comparable to 'give us money and we won't chuck a brick through your window'?

Taxation is two things; it is a buy-in by you so that you can benefit from all society has to offer, and it is (ideally) an investment by you so that society can improve for your benefit. You actually gain benefits from taxation beyond not getting your legs broken by some thug. Hence, the extortion comparison is faulty.

23 minutes ago, Emperor Petitt said:

Even in the case of the landlord, does he then throw you into his personal dungeon and mentally torture you or shoot you in the head?

Again, bullshit. Show me any case where a person is shot in the head for not paying taxes?

Seriously, there are enough faults with current taxation systems and how Governments spend your tax money that you really don't need to fall back on this 'taxation is literally the same as a mob protection racket', 'they will shoot me in the head if I don't pay taxes' crap.

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4 minutes ago, Mortarion said:

Fucking what?! Show me how the Government kills you for not paying tax, because google is google is giving me nothing.

Right, so the Government getting money to provide for all the things that make society work is exactly the same as paying a mob so that they won't attack you? Bullshit. Explain to me how the Government putting money into healthcare, social services, education, ETC in any way comparable to 'give us money and we won't chuck a brick through your window'?

Taxation is two things; it is a buy-in by you so that you can benefit from all society has to offer, and it is (ideally) an investment by you so that society can improve for your benefit. You actually gain benefits from taxation beyond not getting your legs broken by some thug. Hence, the extortion comparison is faulty.

Again, bullshit. Show me any case where a person is shot in the head for not paying taxes?

Seriously, there are enough faults with current taxation systems and how Governments spend your tax money that you really don't need to fall back on this 'taxation is literally the same as a mob protection racket', 'they will shoot me in the head if I don't pay taxes' crap.

Governments do everything with the threat of force behind them. I found this in the first result in google: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1239060/China-shot-tax-evasion.html

If you want another basic example of what taxes are, say I mowed your lawn and went up to your door and demanded you pay me, and we didn't agree to me mowing your lawn in the first place, such an action is extortion.

another link for you simce you asked for proof, this time in Egypt, I hate using a Christian site but it gets the job done:

http://www.cbn.com/tv/2668691645001

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8 minutes ago, Emperor Petitt said:

Governments do everything with the threat of force behind them. I found this in the first result in google: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1239060/China-shot-tax-evasion.html

If you want another basic example of what taxes are, say I mowed your lawn and went up to your door and demanded you pay me, and we didn't agree to me mowing your lawn in the first place, such an action is extortion.

another link for you simce you asked for proof, this time in Egypt, I hate using a Christian site but it gets the job done:

http://www.cbn.com/tv/2668691645001

Alright, so that first source is the daily mail of which on top of being questionable at best, has people in the comments cheering for the resolution and hoping for the same sort of thing to occur in western countries. Conservative values, I think.

Though I think he was imagining you saying that it happened for nations that aren't under heavy authoritarian regimes like China - which I would doubt you would want to live in anyway.

Edited by Tryhard

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5 minutes ago, Tryhard said:

Alright, so that first source is the daily mail of which on top of being questionable at best, has people in the comments cheering for the resolution and hoping for the same sort of thing to occur in western countries. Conservative values, I think.

Though I think he was imagining you saying that it happened for nations that aren't under heavy authoritarian regimes like China - which I would doubt you would want to live in anyway.

I was saying it for governments in general, not excluding one type or the other, in the US that is why I brought up the minimal punishment was jail, it can range. I would like to stress I do not agree with those conservatives, as killing someone for not paying taxes is a grand break of the non aggression principle or NAP. I not going to continue such a topic here as it is quite clear the end result would just be anger in one or both parties involved. (Though for reference I hate that source just as much as the government funded BBC for similar reasons)

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