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Conquest tiering discussion

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12 hours ago, Zoran said:

There's no "hope" anywhere. Guard Stance is extremely reliable. You don't use it correctly because you think of it as a way to negate the worst possible enemy attack. Instead (if you don't know for sure what the enemy turn order is) you should think of it as a guaranteed block on the weakest enemy attack.

It is all logical and simple to understand, yet one cannot show things to people who close their eyes deliberately. Do not waste your time on him, mate.

It is like the various effective builds that you have tried and were ignored in the Reddit Tier List. If you mention them, they might simply disqualify them based on theory and not on actual gameplay. Turning the discussion into a tiring excercise.

It does not really matter what people can tell you about those Ninja Master with Sol builds, because you have tried them various times and you know from fact that thay delivered consistently. You know how to make the build and use it effectively, and you can also give the theoretical background to support it.

You know how Odin, Ophelia or Archer Mozu can turn into monsters with relative ease. You do it often, and since you have experienced it consistently, it is a fact for you. Yet some people may not believe it, even after you explain how to reproduce what you have just done. So, ultimately it is your explaining a fact clashing against their disbelief and (lack of) will to actually try your build.

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A note in defense of Peri. She's pretty good, she just... competes with Stier units on a late join.

She can one level dip for heartseeker and gets A+ Selena and Harlot allowing her to do some pretty cool stuff. She's low key good in female only runs.

Her main drawback is needing marrige for flight, joining after kids, and joining after Silias  (big shocker).

In female only Camilla also replicates her niche with better everything and flight.

Edit: I'm opposed to A Kaze, he's got Silias syndrome something feirce.

Other Edit: "30 res disqualifies Ophelia"

Edited by joshcja

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55 minutes ago, joshcja said:

Other Edit: "30 res disqualifies Ophelia"

We were talking about Kaze and other units with ‘high Resistance and high Speed combo’, who have tanking magic as one of their niches. I think that Kaze, Anna, Nina and Niles fit into that category, while Ophelia is a different unit.

I could have omitted that phrase, since I actually use Ophelia in the Socerers Room of Ch 26 (next to Elise, wielding Horse Spirit, with a Res pair-up and after Rally Resistance.) Still, she needs more bonuses than any of the other mentioned units to tank magic.

I wanted to leave Ophelia out of the discussion because it was focused on Kaze, and he does not play in the same league she does.

Edited by starburst

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2 hours ago, starburst said:

It is all logical and simple to understand, yet one cannot show things to people who close their eyes deliberately. Do not waste your time on him, mate.

It is like the various effective builds that you have tried and were ignored in the Reddit Tier List. If you mention them, they might simply disqualify them based on theory and not on actual gameplay. Turning the discussion into a tiring excercise.

It does not really matter what people can tell you about those Ninja Master with Sol builds, because you have tried them various times and you know from fact that thay delivered consistently. You know how to make the build and use it effectively, and you can also give the theoretical background to support it.

You know how Odin, Ophelia or Archer Mozu can turn into monsters with relative ease. You do it often, and since you have experienced it consistently, it is a fact for you. Yet some people may not believe it, even after you explain how to reproduce what you have just done. So, ultimately it is your explaining a fact clashing against their disbelief and (lack of) will to actually try your build.

Well, excuuuuuse me for not being so trusting as to buy what he's selling! Well, that, and at the end of the day, it's still personal experience, and we all know how much that means...

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6 hours ago, starburst said:

We were talking about Kaze and other units with ‘high Resistance and high Speed combo’, who have tanking magic as one of their niches. I think that Kaze, Anna, Nina and Niles fit into that category, while Ophelia is a different unit.

I could have omitted that phrase, since I actually use Ophelia in the Socerers Room of Ch 26 (next to Elise, wielding Horse Spirit, with a Res pair-up and after Rally Resistance.) Still, she needs more bonuses than any of the other mentioned units to tank magic.

I wanted to leave Ophelia out of the discussion because it was focused on Kaze, and he does not play in the same league she does.

(Yeah I've also been avoiding Ophy. Res stacking her in 26 is weird to me, but as a not-LAD Elise!Ophy strat it looks like a pretty safe clear.)

The thing is any unit we're using heavily on EP has "tanking magic" as a niche by default past ch11. So if we are considering Kaze for A on his EP combat he absolutely has to be able to play at the big kids table.

Edited by joshcja

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11 hours ago, joshcja said:

The thing is any unit we're using heavily on EP has "tanking magic" as a niche by default past ch11. So if we are considering Kaze for A on his EP combat he absolutely has to be able to play at the big kids table.

Oh!, no worries, for me Kaze is a C, maaaaaybe a B if being generous (then again, if Selena and Nyx were given a B on Reddit, Kaze is a solid SSS-9001.)

I am not sure that I get that phrase about any EP unit being able to tank magic. 'Killing' magic enemies is not an issue, for most have either low Def or low Res, or are weak to bows; but 'tanking magic' implies being able to stand Player and Enemy phases against magic attacks, and most of my units cannot do it. My PP team usually includes Mozu, Ophelia and Odin, and none can tank magic; while the EP team usually includes Corrin, Silas and Sophie/ Effie/ Velouria, and none can tank magic either. In my teams, I would have to send Elise or Kaze/ Anna/ Nina against a magic mob.

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2 hours ago, starburst said:

Oh!, no worries, for me Kaze is a C, maaaaaybe a B if being generous (then again, if Selena and Nyx were given a B on Reddit, Kaze is a solid SSS-9001.)

I am not sure that I get that phrase about any EP unit being able to tank magic. 'Killing' magic enemies is not an issue, for most have either low Def or low Res, or are weak to bows; but 'tanking magic' implies being able to stand Player and Enemy phases against magic attacks, and most of my units cannot do it. My PP team usually includes Mozu, Ophelia and Odin, and none can tank magic; while the EP team usually includes Corrin, Silas and Sophie/ Effie/ Velouria, and none can tank magic either. In my teams, I would have to send Elise or Kaze/ Anna/ Nina against a magic mob.

Was refering to mixed groups becoming the standard past ch11.

Tanking pure mag heavily on EP is used once(?) past this point?

I'm double checking and all of the big blender units can tank the one real fullmag room in ch25 with the right build varient along with most of our high grade aurabots.

Edited by joshcja

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2 hours ago, joshcja said:

Was refering to mixed groups becoming the standard past ch11.

Tanking pure mag heavily on EP is used once(?) past this point?

I'm double checking and all of the big blender units can tank the one real fullmag room in ch25 with the right build varient along with most of our high grade aurabots.

I use high Resistance units in "the western bridge of Ch 13, the northeastern section of Ch 18, across Ch 20, the upper side of Ch 22, across Ch 24, and against the magicians of Ch 26 [...]"
I guess that one may not need to 'tank' in Ch 20 if one is careful (or lucky) with the positioning, and it may also apply to sections of Ch 24. But now that I think about it, I may need to 'tank' magic in more situations than you because I only use ten units maximum per map and no 'backpacks.' I face more EP's because my PP's are shorter and my stacking is always lower than yours.

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3 hours ago, starburst said:

I use high Resistance units in "the western bridge of Ch 13, the northeastern section of Ch 18, across Ch 20, the upper side of Ch 22, across Ch 24, and against the magicians of Ch 26 [...]"
I guess that one may not need to 'tank' in Ch 20 if one is careful (or lucky) with the positioning, and it may also apply to sections of Ch 24. But now that I think about it, I may need to 'tank' magic in more situations than you because I only use ten units maximum per map and no 'backpacks.' I face more EP's because my PP's are shorter and my stacking is always lower than yours.

Edit: I can 100% see how the tactics you're using work and agree that they are effective.

---------------------

I rarely use dedicated backpacks outside of dedicated EP blenders. Attack stance is too good.

I pretty much always low-man.

Maxing stack just means I can carelessly hurl my blenders at everything listed (sans ch13 but I just use the throne there) and just kill all the things at once rather than splitting groups into single type damage.

-----------------

As far as tactics go my default seems to be "grab big hammer and smash". I'm just a brute when it comes to strategy games.

Edited by joshcja

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I've got "backpack syndrome". I find myself over using guard stance frequently. This might be because I try to make too many units viable all at once. It doesn't make sense but having units at very different levels bothers me for some reason, even though I'm better off because of it.

 

Being a brute works a lot of the time lol. I've been playing Artifact with a mid-range mono red deck and wrecking face (not very difficult 5-0 perfect runs on constructed gauntlets). Hit everything really hard and don't run out of steam.

Edited by Centh

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3 hours ago, Centh said:

I've got "backpack syndrome". I find myself over using guard stance frequently. This might be because I try to make too many units viable all at once. It doesn't make sense but having units at very different levels bothers me for some reason, even though I'm better off because of it.

It is funny, because your doing contradicts your reasoning. If having units at different levels causes you some anxiety, using Guard Stance constantly might actually worsen the situation. If the under-levelled unit is the secondary unit, it will simply not gain enough Experience; and if is is the primary unit, the granted pair-up bonuses might not be enough to kill enemies in one turn or to sustain Enemy Phases. At the end, under-levelled units almost always prefer Attack Stance. Here I would understand fielding as many units as possible, since the bigger the party, the longer the Player Phase is through Attack Stance, and the broader your chances are to feed kills to certain units.

My take: use less units and distribute the Experience. All my chosen (ten) units are within three levels from each other at any given point of the campaign.

Fun fact: I started using less units because I did not care about many characters. When I decided never to field characters which I disliked, my chosen units got more Experience and became stronger. It helped me focus.

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Here are the results from Reddit's latest Conquest Tier List up to January 7th.

S: Corrin, Jakob 1, Azura, Niles, Camilla
A: Felicia 1, Kaze, Leo
B: Gunter, Effie, Elise, Silas, Selena, Beruka
C: Arthur, Nyx, Odin
D: Laslow, Peri, Charlotte
E: Mozu, Benny


What the fuck is Selena doing at B? Awakening says hi!, I guess.
And the entire A Tier is like that one time at the Oscars and the wrong envelope.
Super Bowl MVP Sniper Mozu, we still love you.

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Selena is actually quite good in her own right if you’re diligent about building her fast supports and you get her into Wyvern after chapter 13. She usually won’t be a world-beater by endgame because she doesn’t have the class sets for it, but you can do a lot worse than being a fast and bulky flier with moderate early damage stack for the price of a single Friendship Seal from the second shop.

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Keaton's on track for C rank as well which is a big ??? from me.

 

I think what you do with S tier kind of sets up the rest of the tier list. We could keep it fairly exclusive, e.g. Camilla and Azura are the two best units in the game; or we can keep the tiers roughly the same size (add in Corrin, Jakob and Niles like the current list); or I've seen arguments in various places to include more units such as Xander, Leo and even Kaze which seems kind of disgusting to me but who am I to judge?

 

I was guilty of the Selena to B faction but Effie getting into B kind of opens the floodgates.

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4 hours ago, Zoran said:

Selena is actually quite good in her own right if you’re diligent about building her fast supports and you get her into Wyvern after chapter 13. She usually won’t be a world-beater by endgame because she doesn’t have the class sets for it, but you can do a lot worse than being a fast and bulky flier with moderate early damage stack for the price of a single Friendship Seal from the second shop.

Selena has bad Strength, bad Defence, and only passable Skill in the class-tree that grants the greatest Skill bonuses in the route. Her redeeming quality might be her decent Speed, but she wields swords, which makes her less useful than Niles or Kaze, who more or less have the same build but can attack from distance and either wield weapons with higher Might or have de-buffs (and tank magic, and give +1 Mov and Speed bonuses, and open chests...)

How exactly is one supposed to use Selena? In Enemy Phase, she does not have enough Defence or HP to hold the lines; on Player Phase, she does not have the Strength or the range to kill a variety of enemies.

Nothing personal, mate. I use Odin and Mozu regularly and am used to deal with 'less-than-ideal' units. I simply fail to see Selena's use.

 

2 hours ago, Dean said:

I was guilty of the Selena to B faction but Effie getting into B kind of opens the floodgates.

Well, Effie has overkill Strength and good Speed growth; she can 'unlock' Percy right after Chapter 10, grab easy 8.000-11.000 G and class-change to Fighter » Berserker; or bear a powerful Sophie or Nina before Ch 12; or be used as an early promoted unit for the extra damage and bonuses.
Wanna see something silly? Make her a Berserker and give her the +4 Damage and +40 % Hit skills from Sniper (A+ Mozu.) It is LoD-Ophelia-level of might, but physical. And with more chances to crit. And a very, very low chance to miss. It is like a glitch.

That being said, I do not even like Effie's character that much, and she is a Tier C unit for me. My point is that whatever rank you give her, she will, in my opinion, always be above Selena or Beruka or Leo or Nyx or Arthur or Charlotte...

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Semana has innate kinshi and bow knight, access to some solid stack options via A+, and S. She's just also stuck in an awful base class at join.

Not the worst unit but not the best either.

Her main shtic is just Merc>Wyvern>Kinshibowknight dipping into her husbado's goodies or taking trample as needed. It's low invest and it gives a solid PP unit.

A note in defense of Arthur. His class set and sky high axe rank along with extremely early male status are all extremely good. Percy outshines him but I personally rate Arthur over Effie.

Edited by joshcja

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On 12/20/2018 at 11:31 AM, Shoblongoo said:

First impressions:

-Leo and Beruka too high
-Effie and Elise are too low
-You are criminally undervaluing Benny and Keaton


(I slept on Ketaon at first too, thinking he must be crap because he's melee locked and his join time is kinda bad for an unpromoted unit. Then I used him. He's a really good frontline beater and damage sponge--his HP / Strength / Spd / Def spread is kinda nuts) 

 

Imma back up my defense of Keaton. Cause yall still sleeping on him, and hes actually kinda disgusting. 

He joins at level 15 which is plenty enough for early promotion if you just immediately want to make him bonkers from the get-go with zero investment. (I wouldn't. His unpromoted stats aren't so bad for the midagame that he struggles to grab kills if you want to put a few levels into him first or cap him off. But you can, if you're into that sort of thing)

The thing is you don't absolutely NEED to promote him to stop him from becoming deadweight until Den of Betrayal, which gives you a reasonable window of opportunity to feed him kills + put levels on him (especially considering this is the window where on most playthroughs you're going to start unlocking future children paralouges) if you're going for endgame optimization instead of immediate pay-off. (this is generally considered unwise in most FE games, but given how intense the engame of Conquest is compared to the relatively mild midgame where Keaton joins, I think this is an exception to the general rule. That is to say: having a Keaton that capped out before promoting + is firing on all cylinders at endgame potential is more important than having a Keaton that immediately became a power unit as soon as he joined)

...anyways...

Speaking of endgame potential: look at these growths. Just look at them:

80% HP
80% Strength
50% Spd
60%  Def

You're already looking at a unit thats gonna have the overall highest combination of power and speed and tanking capacity of anything in your line-up (unless/until you S-Support him + recruit his daughter) before you even factor in that he gets stat boosts from his unique weapon class.  And lets talk for a bit about his weapons, because thats where the magic happens:
 

On 12/21/2018 at 12:23 AM, Centh said:

When do you play Keaton? I generally see other units as a better option for the role he would be playing. Or should I be thinking about him like a tankier berserker unit?

Its not just that hes a "tankier berserker," so much as the ability to equip either the beaststone or the beastrune lets him freely pick-and-choose between roles. Don't think of him as a "tankier berserker"--think of him as a berserker when you need a berserker, and a general when you need a general.  

With the offensive buffs from the beaststone/beastone+, Keaton is a one-rounding machine that you use by pointing in the general direction of something that absolutely needs to die. 

With the  defensive buffs of beastrune, Keaton is a damage sponge that tanks for days.

One of the really cool things you can do with Keaton is equip beaststone on player phase, attack, then have another unit trade with him to make him equip the beastrune for enemy phase, effectively making him a player phase berserker + an enemy phase general in a single turn. (think Aigislash in competitive Pokemon; Blade form when attacking + Shield Form when being attacked = basically running around with a higher basestat total then Mewtwo) 

Basically you play Keaton anytime you want a frontline unit that can murder something dead and then take loads and loads of punishment when you hit "end turn." 

Being melee locked isn't even that much of a strike against him compared to berserkers/generals, in a game where javelins and hand axes are so shit. (the usual payoff of being able to go 1-2 range with axes and lances isn't anywhere near as high in Conquest as it was in past games)

Hes bulky enough that he can just tank through 2-ranged units he can't counter + useful in bating them out to attack him, instead of squishier units that can counterattack at 2-range but will die if they get targeted by mulitple hits on enemy phase (the AI will always target a unit that can't counterattack over a unit that can unless its going for lethal damage. Keaton can abuse this as a psuedo-provoke for enemies with spears and tomahawks and bows that he doesn't particularly mind taking to the face, while you maneuver your mages and your ninjas into otherwise unsafe positions)

Passive healing from [Better odds]--which he gets as his level 5 promotion skill and will generally have for a reasonable chunk of your playthrough, notably from chapter 20 onward where Conquest really kicks into high gear--further augments his natural bulk. Add to that the fact that Keaton will never need more than 3 weapons (Beastone / Beastsone+ / Beastrune) in his inventory for maximum utility and is free to fill the rest of his inventory with concoctions and elixers, and you have a very self-sufficient unit. 

All of Keatons class skills are useful for that matter. Some classes give deadweight skills that aren't helpful or are super situational.

Beastbane = Nothing on a horse or pegasus is taking a hit from keaton and not getting one-rounded.
Odd Shaped= Free boost to damage output every other turn
Better Odds = A tank that heals itself
Grizzly Wounds = (Everything that fights Keaton takes chip damage. Really--how much damage would you be doing with a hand axe or a javelin??? This is basically an enemy phase distant counter that doesn't make you debuff yourself or equip a weapon that makes you shit at countering in melee)   
_________

Keaton is good you guys.

Join time is really the biggest strike against him--for the part of the game that hes available, hes a beast.

Hes better than Selena (hits like a wet noodle), Laslow (shaky growths in speed and def) , and Peri- (Bad. Bad unit).

C Tier at least. I'd argue for B. (higher if he joined earlier) 

Seriously--start up a new playthrough, take him off the bench, and actually see what he can do. Keaton is a monster. 

Edited by Shoblongoo

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2 hours ago, starburst said:

Selena has bad Strength, bad Defence, and only passable Skill in the class-tree that grants the greatest Skill bonuses in the route. Her redeeming quality might be her decent Speed, but she wields swords, which makes her less useful than Niles or Kaze, who more or less have the same build but can attack from distance and either wield weapons with higher Might or have de-buffs (and tank magic, and give +1 Mov and Speed bonuses, and open chests...)

How exactly is one supposed to use Selena? In Enemy Phase, she does not have enough Defence or HP to hold the lines; on Player Phase, she does not have the Strength or the range to kill a variety of enemies.

Nothing personal, mate. I use Odin and Mozu regularly and am used to deal with 'less-than-ideal' units. I simply fail to see Selena's use.

Uh, Selena has quite good personal strength, speed, and defense bases, and her growths for the latter two are above average. She has perfectly adequate skill, too. She performs pretty well for a few chapters before sword lock and the mercenary line's middling stat and growth spread get to her. And early Selena x Beruka is simple to build.

In Chapter 10, Selena occupies the northeastern ballista on her join turn with Camilla's support. Camilla and Beruka can then fight off the whole first wave from the east side the next turn, passing Selena around as needed. After that, Selena one-rounds the rest of the archers with Beruka's support, using only some vulneraries. They appreciate Azura's help along the way, but Camilla can go fly somewhere else. Both Beruka and Selena can get a level from this.

Selena helps Beruka wipe the Oni Savage room in Ch.11 on turn 2. She can then poach kills in the diviner room or the samurai room.

Chapter 12 is a place where they can do work in Attack Stance. Selena and Beruka can pick up kills along the left side at the beginning, and then they become part of your giant player phase swarm on the turn you trigger the dragon vein.

In chapter 13, Selena should have the armorslayer, so it's no trouble to get her 4-5 kills in the northeast corner while the rest of your party crosses the river in the west or middle parts of the map. She should reach level 14-15.

Immediate friendship seal to Wyvern Rider trades 2 skill, 2 speed, and 2 res for 2 def, 1 str, flight, axes over swords, and a quick Strength +2. The extra def and higher def growth leverage Selena's stat spread a lot better than her natural classes. She becomes essentially a Beruka who doubles nearly everything.

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31 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

Seriously--start up a new playthrough, take him off the bench, and actually see what he can do. Keaton is a monster. 

Recently I did give Keaton another go.

He plays like a Be without hand axe or brave axe with super late join.

It was a "bad unit" run with no high ranking units but Azura.

Even then he was the worst unit in my army. At full invest.

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3 hours ago, Zoran said:

Uh, Selena has quite good personal strength, speed, and defense bases, and her growths for the latter two are above average. She has perfectly adequate skill, too. She performs pretty well for a few chapters before sword lock and the mercenary line's middling stat and growth spread get to her. And early Selena x Beruka is simple to build.

Except her Strength is bad, passable at best, for the role that I need her to play. As a Bow Knight, she has the same Strenght as Niles or Anna or Master Ninja Kaze, but without their versatility. None of these units are chosen because of their Strenght, and yet Selena is just that. And it is not that she tops Strength at L20/10 and is being held back by low caps. As a Hero, she has less Strength than any Silas or Dark Knight Odin.

In any case, I will stop here, since I sound rather negative and that is not my intention. You clearly have used Selena more than I have, and it is unfair to talk about a unit whose recommended build I have not tried.
Based on how you use her, she plays the role that I assign to Silas or Sophie/ Velouria. I will try the Dragon Selena build and get back to you. I am not expecting a super unit --remember, I use Odin and Mozu all the time--, I can invest in her, but I do not use 'fillers.'

Edited by starburst

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4 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

Speaking of endgame potential: look at these growths. Just look at them:
80% HP
80% Strength
50% Spd
60%  Def
_________

Keaton is good you guys.
Join time is really the biggest strike against him--for the part of the game that hes available, hes a beast.
C Tier at least. I'd argue for B. (higher if he joined earlier)
Seriously guys--start up a new playthrough, take him off the bench, and actually see what he can do. Keaton is a monster. 

Well, you also decided to omit that Keaton has no Skill, like, at all. As a wolf, he has worse Skill growth than Elise and less Skill than her by the time he joins.

But I will give you this: I cheat and play the 'Before Awakening' map to build supports with Keaton right after Ch 14 and recruit Velouria immediately. And she is the true overpowered deal, in her own class or as a Hero or Berserker or whatever her mother gives. Oh!, and she is also cute.
It is Velouria what gives Keaton an edge over many other units. So, yeah, give him rank C or B or S. He he he.

Edited by starburst

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1 hour ago, starburst said:

Well, you also decided to omit that Keaton has no Skill, like, at all. As a wolf, he has worse Skill growth than Elise and less Skill than her by the time he joins.

Skill is the second least important stat next to luck, and only really matters if you're trying to use weapons with low rates. (i.e. beruka actually needs her high skill growth  because she uses axes)

Weapon hit is 90% on beastone with a +5 skill modifier

Beastone+ is 90% with a +8 skill modifier

^^^
Those are the ones that matter for his offense. Beastrune is 80% hit with a -2 skill modifier (which is still not terrible, and thats the one thats just for tanking)

Keaton's skill is fine for the weapons hes working with--he doesn't need to be a skill specialist to get reliable hit rates. (if you're turning him into a berserker or something--yeah--then you have a problem)

FYI: Elise having low skill doesn't really hurt her either. Her magic is so high she wrecks face with the fire tome, and it has a 90% hit rate at base. 

_____________

Keaton's skill and luck growth being as low as it is is what lets his HP/Strength/Spd/Def growths be so high.

Thats the great thing about Keaton.

His growth spread is laser-focused on the stats that matter--none of his good growths are wasted on the less important stats. (I'm looking at you, Laslow)

@joshcja brave weapons and hand axes aren't even good in this game. That would be a major strike against him if this was Awakening or Tellius or GBA. This is Fates--he isn't missing out on anything spectacular. 

Edited by Shoblongoo

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Isn't grissly wounds at promo 15? That's quite a while to wait. Are you heavily xp investing in him?

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1 hour ago, starburst said:

Well, you also decided to omit that Keaton has no Skill, like, at all. As a wolf, he has worse Skill growth than Elise and less Skill than her by the time he joins.

But I will give you this: I cheat and play the 'Before Awakening' map to build supports with Keaton right after Ch 14 and recruit Velouria immediately. And she is the true overpowered deal, in her own class or as a Hero or Berserker or whatever her mother gives. Oh!, and she is also cute.
It is Velouria what gives Keaton an edge over many other units. So, yeah, give him rank C or B or S. He he he.

What. This isn't FE6, where lances and axes have crap hit rates. That being said, having high skill is better than having low skill, but it's only really necessary if you're trying to use inaccurate weapons (like the aforementioned Beruka. Or Charlotte, who suffers because her skill base is bad), and as a result, it's not exactly a priority stat.

Also, on the Keaton discussion, for what it's worth, he's practically immune to critical hits.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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A lightforge hand axe with dracozerk stack is sufficient to flat Ohko master ninjas on a Be with full buffs in ch25 at 100% to hit. Because stacked Be's hit like trucks loaded with other trucks filled with trucks.

Braves are similarly obscene at high stack as we're applying str/mag + wmt + Stack + wta to offense and base + auras + buffs + pairup to def at third shop.

TL:DR Stacked Brave Axe/Crecent Bow/forged Lightning are all noproc ORKO's on every enemy in the game including lunatic tacomeat.

Brave lance/sword/soilders knife are slightly less good but are still MUCH more powerful than any other option by a mile.

Edited by joshcja

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