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Anacybele

Who else thinks Sylvain is awesome? (minor spoilers)

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His A support with Byleth made me feel so sorry for him. Someone give that handsome boy a hug!

Spoiler

I of course already knew Miklan hated him and understood why. But he basically tried to kill Sylvain! And Sylvain thinks women will just love him for his crest and bloodline. He's actually afraid to be serious with a woman because of that. He wished he could run away and is jealous of Byleth since she was able to not care about her crest.

Sylvain's my new favorite womanizer now. Sorry Sain, but the handsome red boy just deserves the love! I feel he has more depth too. Still really like Sain though.

This can also be a Sylvain appreciation thread since as I said, he needs hugs! Anyone else grow fond of him? I want to do a Blue Lions playthrough at some point for him! I picked Golden Deer first because Claude and recruited Sylvain over.

Edited by Anacybele

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Sylvain has great supports, but so many of his supports are incomplete. Yes, I get that the great number of B supports with girls is to show how Sylvain isn't truly serious about girls save for the few (F!Byleth, Mercedes, Dorothea, and Ingrid), but there's just TOO many.

And the thing is, all his supports are great, and it feels like all the girls actually do warm up to him and grow to like him in their B support. So leaving it at B feels... so dumb. 

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8 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Sylvain has great supports, but so many of his supports are incomplete. Yes, I get that the great number of B supports with girls is to show how Sylvain isn't truly serious about girls save for the few (F!Byleth, Mercedes, Dorothea, and Ingrid), but there's just TOO many.

And the thing is, all his supports are great, and it feels like all the girls actually do warm up to him and grow to like him in their B support. So leaving it at B feels... so dumb. 

Yeah, going to just B is dumb, I agree. But Sylvain isn't the only one with that problem. Others have supports that only go up to B too.

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1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

 Yeah, going to just B is dumb, I agree. But Sylvain isn't the only one with that problem. Others have supports that only go up to B too.

Oh definitely. But Sylvain is the worst of it, because he is the ONLY one with double digits in the number of B supports he has. That's just wrong.

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59 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Oh definitely. But Sylvain is the worst of it, because he is the ONLY one with double digits in the number of B supports he has. That's just wrong.

...Oh. Yeah, that is just dumb. 😕

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Just now, Etheus said:

I feel like he should have an A support with Leonie.

The very fact that the B support ends with her blushing. Yeah. 

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Oh, yes, Sylvain is simply lovely.. And overall I would say Blue Lions truly is the House of special bois. ❤️ 

Obviously there is a certain other special boi, from Golden Deer, that's very close to my heart, and then there's also Ferdinand from Beagles, but if we're talking some hypothetical house-by-house special boi ratio Blue Lions definitely comes out on top for me.

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2 hours ago, TrueNoble said:

Oh, yes, Sylvain is simply lovely.. And overall I would say Blue Lions truly is the House of special bois. ❤️ 

Obviously there is a certain other special boi, from Golden Deer, that's very close to my heart, and then there's also Ferdinand from Beagles, but if we're talking some hypothetical house-by-house special boi ratio Blue Lions definitely comes out on top for me.

Fully agree, all the goodest bois in Blue Lions~

Sylvain is a good character, I think people who think he's just another Inigo or just a flirtatious asshole aren't reading his Supports~ 

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I dig Sylvain a lot. His B Support with Byleth got genuinely chilling for a moment. I'm still not entirely convinced he was joking. 

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3 minutes ago, Landmaster said:

Sylvain is a good character, I think people who think he's just another Inigo or just a flirtatious asshole aren't reading his Supports~ 

To be honest, even Inigo isn't that bad. He's got his own issues too and has some great supports. But I think Awakening and Fates focused a bit more on the comedic value that they focus more often than not about their humorous quirks. But if the writers handled Inigo, Owain, and the others like they did with 3H, and they would be epic as hell.

2 minutes ago, nhaer042 said:

I dig Sylvain a lot. His B Support with Byleth got genuinely chilling for a moment. I'm still not entirely convinced he was joking. 

Oh, he was serious. Sylvain doesn't make jokes with a frown on his face. When Sylvain is serious, he drops the smile. He does, in some way, resent Byleth for being able to get away from the issues of Crests for most of his life, whereas Sylvain had to deal with it for almost all his life. 

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16 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

To be honest, even Inigo isn't that bad. He's got his own issues too and has some great supports. But I think Awakening and Fates focused a bit more on the comedic value that they focus more often than not about their humorous quirks. But if the writers handled Inigo, Owain, and the others like they did with 3H, and they would be epic as hell.

Oh I don't have a problem with Inigo, he's one of my favorite Awakening kids~ I just used him as a comparison since most people seem to not like either just on the basis that they're flirtatious~

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2 minutes ago, Landmaster said:

Oh I don't have a problem with Inigo, he's one of my favorite Awakening kids~ I just used him as a comparison since most people seem to not like either just on the basis that they're flirtatious~

No, I get it. Sylvain is arguably the best written skirt chaser character in Fire Emblem. I'm just saying that Sylvain's supports are written a lot more organically to show several of his other traits. Yeah, he's flirtatious with several girls, but if you look at how he acts, he is very unique. 

Spoiler

With Annette, he tries to flirt a little but ends up showing how he's incredibly talented, being able to figure out magic formulas in a single glance that Annette had been trying to figure out for a while. Then with Leonie, he shows how he doesn't flirt with her cause he didn't even consider her to be a girl to flirt with, and then tried really hard to fix that. And with Ingrid, he doesn't try to flirt, but is very honest and casual with her, that when he finally starts to develop feelings for her, he cannot even make a good flirtatious comment to her. 

And the reason these support conversations work so much better than Fates and Awakening is not only cause they try to be a bit more serious, but also, it isn't shoving every guy being able to support with every girl or something, and actually lowered the quantity, allowing for better quality.

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I found him to be cynical to the point where he's cruel to women. There is definitely more depth to him than your typical playboy character but there is also a lot of disregard for the feelings of others. Zelos at least wasn't a serial cheater.

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6 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

I found him to be cynical to the point where he's cruel to women. There is definitely more depth to him than your typical playboy character but there is also a lot of disregard for the feelings of others. Zelos at least wasn't a serial cheater.

I mean the only reason he's like that is because they don't really care for his feelings either. Like the thing about Sylvain is that at the core of his character is just a normal boy that feels no one really cares about him. Like the way he sees it people only care about him for his crest and not him as a person. Like he gets so much love and attention from his family and peers because of his crest. That's really all they care about so if he didn't have one he'd be cast off at the first opportunity like his brother Miklan. His mindset is that if they don't care about my feelings, then why should I care about their feelings? It's an incredibly cynical way to view the world but it makes sense given what he's been through. 

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1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

And the reason these support conversations work so much better than Fates and Awakening is not only cause they try to be a bit more serious, but also, it isn't shoving every guy being able to support with every girl or something, and actually lowered the quantity, allowing for better quality.

I think they work because a character isn't solely their gimmick.  They have motivations behind it, which is explored.

55 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

I found him to be cynical to the point where he's cruel to women. There is definitely more depth to him than your typical playboy character but there is also a lot of disregard for the feelings of others. Zelos at least wasn't a serial cheater.

Congratulations, you described most of the cast in their C supports.

41 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

I mean the only reason he's like that is because they don't really care for his feelings either. Like the thing about Sylvain is that at the core of his character is just a normal boy that feels no one really cares about him. Like the way he sees it people only care about him for his crest and not him as a person. Like he gets so much love and attention from his family and peers because of his crest. That's really all they care about so if he didn't have one he'd be cast off at the first opportunity like his brother Miklan. His mindset is that if they don't care about my feelings, then why should I care about their feelings? It's an incredibly cynical way to view the world but it makes sense given what he's been through. 

Not quite.

He knows his value is tied to his Crest.  That's why he asks himself whether he's worth anything - it was a literal accident of birth, but he was lucky. . .his brother, not so much.  IMO, he's a reflection of his society, and it's a mess.

---

Both Sylvain and Lorenz have their reasons, which makes them a lot more palatable than your usual flirt.  Plus, Sylvain gets a personalized monster nuke.

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17 minutes ago, eclipse said:
8 minutes ago, eclipse said:

I think they work because a character isn't solely their gimmick.  They have motivations behind it, which is explored.

I mentioned that earlier as well, where the other supports focused a bit too much on the comedic cases of their quirks when they have so much more value. 

Frankly, I don't know why we don't have Lucina or others experience night terrors or such when they sleep like Edelgard does.

17 minutes ago, eclipse said:
10 minutes ago, eclipse said:

He knows his value is tied to his Crest.  That's why he asks himself whether he's worth anything - it was a literal accident of birth, but he was lucky. . .his brother, not so much.  IMO, he's a reflection of his society, and it's a mess.

Which pushes Edelgard's reasons for fighting. Society is just so messed up.

 

Edited by eclipse

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12 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Not quite.

He knows his value is tied to his Crest.  That's why he asks himself whether he's worth anything - it was a literal accident of birth, but he was lucky. . .his brother, not so much.  IMO, he's a reflection of his society, and it's a mess.

Yep, exactly what I saw from him too, and it's why I feel so sorry for him and want to hug him. I thought he might be just a mean serial cheater at first as mentioned above, but then I realized he's not doing it to be an asshat. He just feels that if he tries to stick with one girl, he'll get hurt in the end because she just wants in his pants for his crest and nothing else. In fact, you could say he has low self-esteem because he feels he's only worth anything for his crest. He's worthless otherwise, in his mind. 😞

You're not worthless to me, Sylvain! Screw the crest. xP

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1 hour ago, Ottservia said:

I mean the only reason he's like that is because they don't really care for his feelings either. Like the thing about Sylvain is that at the core of his character is just a normal boy that feels no one really cares about him. Like the way he sees it people only care about him for his crest and not him as a person. Like he gets so much love and attention from his family and peers because of his crest. That's really all they care about so if he didn't have one he'd be cast off at the first opportunity like his brother Miklan. His mindset is that if they don't care about my feelings, then why should I care about their feelings? It's an incredibly cynical way to view the world but it makes sense given what he's been through. 

I know the reason he is cynical but he's a jerk to people just on the assumption that they're using him. You could use more mundane reasons than crests to display that kind of behavior. Imagine someone had a girlfriend that used them and forever after this guy would cheat on his future girlfriends because "women don't care about my feelings so why should I care about theirs?" Their behavior would have an origin but at some point you need to be a better person and not let bad experiences define how you treat people.

Look at that Sylvain x Byleth support. In the C support,  he cheats on a girl and then lies to her face about it, all while playing the "bitch just wanted my crest" card. And then in the B support he breaks up with another girl and makes her cry. Sylvain claims he doesn't like seeing women cry, but he's happy enough to string them along, telling Byleth he won't change his ways. A bigger man would recognize that he shouldn't take out his frustrations on others but he's always chasing shirts and never intends to commit. His hatred of crests is well founded but his treatment of women is pretty awful.

19 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Congratulations, you described most of the cast in their C supports.

Wat? Mistreating women because of a cynical worldview?

Edited by NekoKnight

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Just now, NekoKnight said:

Wat? Mistreating women because of a cynical worldview?

Mistreating others in general.  For example, many of Bernadetta's C supports.

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14 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

 

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With Annette, he tries to flirt a little but ends up showing how he's incredibly talented, being able to figure out magic formulas in a single glance that Annette had been trying to figure out for a while.



I really like that one, since it strongly merges with his buddying talent.

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I'll be honest. While Sylvain has more depth than most skirt chasers, I also find him more unsympathetic.

 

Characters like Sain, Gatrie, Virion, Lorenz, etc. are unsuccessful skirt chasers. They don't cheat (at least that we are aware of). They just have a particularly forward and fast attitude towards finding a partner, and aren't too picky in their search. Should one of them meet with good fortune, there is little indication that they wouldn't be satisfied with that.

 

Successful skirt chasers, like Sylvain, on the other hand, annoy me. They can't be satisfied, and they perpetually hurt the women they seek out.

 

Sylvain may have his reasons, but he's also a grade A douchebag. Virion is the best skirt chaser, IMO. At least Virion has class. 

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15 hours ago, eclipse said:

Not quite.

 He knows his value is tied to his Crest.  That's why he asks himself whether he's worth anything - it was a literal accident of birth, but he was lucky. . .his brother, not so much.  IMO, he's a reflection of his society, and it's a mess.

That’s an interesting way too look at it. Maybe rereading his supports will give me more insight. 

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