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Equippable Combat Arts Tier List

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Was looking through the replies and changed a few of the combat arts based on them. Especially Frozen Lance

4 hours ago, PPPPPPP270 said:

 

I still think tempest lance and curved shot should be placed high because how valuable they are in the early game.

Combat arts i disagree being placed high are the more utility focused ones like break shot and encloser. Sure break shot is useful against monsters early but there are so few monsters int he early game it doesn't mean much. Encloser is a curious one, why use encloser when you can just kill them or use a gambit if you really need to stop a person from moving? 

The stat scaling combat arts. I haven't had much experience with them because I thought something like leveling up sword rank on Lysithea for a budding talent sounds terrible. Same thing Hubert getting lances early is a good strategy. Glowing ember haven't gotten to that on my maddening run but sounds great on Dimitri. 

 

as @shadow mir brought up, gambits are often not accurate unless you have high charm (Byleth / lords). Encloser adds +15 hit plus can use iron + and stack with battalion / skills. 

Yeah, I can see Break shot going down from how often youre using it compared to tempest lance really. 

@dark holy elf where do you see their placement in the list when including their uses for offensive / defensive tactics (rather than just LTC)? I have only used Draw Back a few times because I didnt want to waste a Divine pulse and miscalculated.

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Draw Back allows you to have someone attack a problem enemy and then get them one square further out of trouble thereafter. Or it allows you to pull someone else one square towards the enemy (or towards someone you want to target with dance/rally/warp/healing/rescue/etc.). I tend to find a fair bit of use for it. Reposition is even better because it essentially extends offensive and defensive range by 2 instead of 1, and also allows fliers to pull infantry units over ledges and some walls. I can't ever imagine swapping out Reposition just to have three offensive combat arts, so to me it obviously belongs above all but the best weapon combat arts.

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14 hours ago, LegendOfLoog said:

I’m fairly certain it does. Magic weapons use Magic Atk, and the Magic Staff boosts that stat. It also boosts Combat Arts like Lightning Axe, Frozen Lance, and so on. 

Can 100% confirm. I use those a lot.

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15 hours ago, PPPPPPP270 said:

Combat arts i disagree being placed high are the more utility focused ones like break shot and encloser. Sure break shot is useful against monsters early but there are so few monsters int he early game it doesn't mean much. Encloser is a curious one, why use encloser when you can just kill them or use a gambit if you really need to stop a person from moving? 

The stat scaling combat arts. I haven't had much experience with them because I thought something like leveling up sword rank on Lysithea for a budding talent sounds terrible. Same thing Hubert getting lances early is a good strategy. Glowing ember haven't gotten to that on my maddening run but sounds great on Dimitri. 

Encloser allows you to be able to deal with 1 enemy more at a time, no questions asked. It can be a fortress knight, paladin, assassin, mage, monster, anything that is not a boss.

It also makes dealing with fleeing enemies a lot easier, who are admittedly not that common. But when they are there, they usually pose a challenge to catch without getting yourself killed.

 

The main selling point of the stat scaling combat arts is, that they scale on another stat besides strength. In endgame they become very strong single hits, useful for finishing off enemies or maxing out the damage output and will definitely outdamage combat arts, that don't hit twice.

Personally I value combat arts higher that scale on defense (strong defense units often have no problem getting retaliated on or being on the frontlines) and combat arts that do magic damage (magic users can peak their single hit damage with a good weapon+combat art. e.g. my Marianne is doing 43 damage with Frozen Lance in chapter 11, she's a bit overleveled though).

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2 hours ago, GarEEE said:

Encloser allows you to be able to deal with 1 enemy more at a time, no questions asked. It can be a fortress knight, paladin, assassin, mage, monster, anything that is not a boss.

It also makes dealing with fleeing enemies a lot easier, who are admittedly not that common. But when they are there, they usually pose a challenge to catch without getting yourself killed.

 

The main selling point of the stat scaling combat arts is, that they scale on another stat besides strength. In endgame they become very strong single hits, useful for finishing off enemies or maxing out the damage output and will definitely outdamage combat arts, that don't hit twice.

Personally I value combat arts higher that scale on defense (strong defense units often have no problem getting retaliated on or being on the frontlines) and combat arts that do magic damage (magic users can peak their single hit damage with a good weapon+combat art. e.g. my Marianne is doing 43 damage with Frozen Lance in chapter 11, she's a bit overleveled though).

For magical arts, i dont think anyone is speccing into Soulblade/hexblade Marriane / Ingrid / Dorthea since sword wouldnt go to any of their classes. Hex is A sword on Ingrid, but also gets frozen lance at A. Doesnt even have swordfaire as falcon if she went that way. 

Frozen lance, I can see people using it to hit in that higher damage in needed situations since Marriane / Hubert can be heading into lance based master classes if chosen into. I cant see it being heavily used compared to tempest, and even more situational of an occasion due to 4 move on both units. Makes sense when theyre competing against 4 / 5 units. I did move it up though since it makes sense to use it on them. Annette can be viewed the same, except her rallys often is the choice per turn.

stat scaling theoretically seems amazing, but lance jab learned by 3 units who can use bow. two of them learn point blank, which can out damage. glowing ember, seems great too but only two people learn and Dimitri has atrocity if youre in that situation dire enough, but how many times can you say glowing ember vs tempest get that kill. and if its so necessary, atrocity. Yes itll burn into the usage of a relic, but thats the point of relics, dire situations. Finesse blade for catherine or felix, yes can give small extra damage but theyre pretty fast as units. Felix also would need to be staying in assassin if he wants to spec into A rank art. Gilbert can make use of Glowing ember. Dedue can make use of armored strike. I cant see a use of axe arts after early game, when making killer axe + can give you a crit. I see the use in them, but by the time you get these arts (besides catherine starting with A) or minor factoring in the arts with the unit since its not viewed in a vacuum takes away the value of choosing that art.

Edited by Johnzin

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2 hours ago, Johnzin said:

For magical arts, i dont think anyone is speccing into Soulblade/hexblade Marriane / Ingrid / Dorthea since sword wouldnt go to any of their classes. Hex is A sword on Ingrid, but also gets frozen lance at A. Doesnt even have swordfaire as falcon if she went that way. 

Frozen lance, I can see people using it to hit in that higher damage in needed situations since Marriane / Hubert can be heading into lance based master classes if chosen into. I cant see it being heavily used compared to tempest, and even more situational of an occasion due to 4 move on both units. Makes sense when theyre competing against 4 / 5 units. I did move it up though since it makes sense to use it on them. Annette can be viewed the same, except her rallys often is the choice per turn.

You don't get arrow of indra in most routes, and lance are overspecialized into killing cavalry.

Mortal savant is a worse class than dark knight but between rapier+ and grounder you have effective damage againist everything wich whit enought mag investment may reach OHKO territory even on maddening. An optimized soulblade user kill more things than an optimized frozen lance user, wich in some cases may be worth the reduced movement and loss of canto

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2 hours ago, Flere210 said:

You don't get arrow of indra in most routes, and lance are overspecialized into killing cavalry.

Mortal savant is a worse class than dark knight but between rapier+ and grounder you have effective damage againist everything wich whit enought mag investment may reach OHKO territory even on maddening. An optimized soulblade user kill more things than an optimized frozen lance user, wich in some cases may be worth the reduced movement and loss of canto

Oh thats such an interesting combination. I never thought of making Dorthea or Marriane a MS for magic sword art. I often give magic boosters to warpers for utility of longer warp range. I bet it can do a lot of damage silver + x2 dmg on grounder and 3x dmg rapier. I would guess then these two characters are going monk > mage > SM ?

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4 hours ago, Johnzin said:

Oh thats such an interesting combination. I never thought of making Dorthea or Marriane a MS for magic sword art. I often give magic boosters to warpers for utility of longer warp range. I bet it can do a lot of damage silver + x2 dmg on grounder and 3x dmg rapier. I would guess then these two characters are going monk > mage > SM ?

Dorothea really want her 2 meteors and her mag growth is lower.

Actually, i don't think you need a crapton of mag boosting items.

Using soulblade whit a rapier+ is 29+res might, let'assume 5 bonus points and a 34, using grounder whit blutbang is a guaranteed 31 might, 23 whit a levin sword. Now adding the bonuses.

+7  for a battalion

+3 for magic staff

+2 for magic+ 2

+ 5 for swordfaire

+ 6 for fiendish blow.

We are at 57 for the rapier attack, at 54 for the Blutbang's one and at 46 whit the levin sword's one. MS Marianne would have around 35 magic naturally, so you only need little investment to push it into the kill zone(40 or little nore, and Marianne would have around 35 as an average level 40 MS). You need heavy investment if you want to also kill things like the war masters. But then, you would still have 70 or so might when chipping whit a levin sword from 3 squares away. 

 

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1 hour ago, Flere210 said:

Dorothea really want her 2 meteors and her mag growth is lower.

Actually, i don't think you need a crapton of mag boosting items.

Using soulblade whit a rapier+ is 29+res might, let'assume 5 bonus points and a 34, using grounder whit blutbang is a guaranteed 31 might, 23 whit a levin sword. Now adding the bonuses.

+7  for a battalion

+3 for magic staff

+2 for magic+ 2

+ 5 for swordfaire

+ 6 for fiendish blow.

We are at 57 for the rapier attack, at 54 for the Blutbang's one and at 46 whit the levin sword's one. MS Marianne would have around 35 magic naturally, so you only need little investment to push it into the kill zone(40 or little nore, and Marianne would have around 35 as an average level 40 MS). You need heavy investment if you want to also kill things like the war masters. But then, you would still have 70 or so might when chipping whit a levin sword from 3 squares away. 

 

Okay I don't see how a utility character such as marriane, your healer, can achieve 35-40 unless you're choosing to not finish the only objective early. I don't think a combat art should be viewed in a setting that isn't realistic. Sure a lv 40 vengaence Dedue can be high tier due to damage but how are you getting a 4 move character to lv 40

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Marianne has Physic which is guarantees her exp every turn, she should have a relatively easy time hitting Level 40 on non-CF routes unless we're going so fast that nobody is.

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4 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

What do you mean by that?

if she'd have 35 mag at level 40, at level 35 she should have 2-3 points less on average, that's what he meant, and that even with 32-33 mag she can still kill some stuff

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On 11/8/2019 at 9:22 PM, Flere210 said:

Dorothea really want her 2 meteors and her mag growth is lower.

Actually, i don't think you need a crapton of mag boosting items.

Using soulblade whit a rapier+ is 29+res might, let'assume 5 bonus points and a 34, using grounder whit blutbang is a guaranteed 31 might, 23 whit a levin sword. Now adding the bonuses.

+7  for a battalion

+3 for magic staff

+2 for magic+ 2

+ 5 for swordfaire

+ 6 for fiendish blow.

We are at 57 for the rapier attack, at 54 for the Blutbang's one and at 46 whit the levin sword's one. MS Marianne would have around 35 magic naturally, so you only need little investment to push it into the kill zone(40 or little nore, and Marianne would have around 35 as an average level 40 MS). You need heavy investment if you want to also kill things like the war masters. But then, you would still have 70 or so might when chipping whit a levin sword from 3 squares away. 

I don't see why you're bringing up Grounder when most of the stuff it's good against is best engaged with a bow instead (not to mention they have increased odds of dodging you because you are using a sword).

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On 11/9/2019 at 12:01 PM, Dark Holy Elf said:

Marianne has Physic which is guarantees her exp every turn, she should have a relatively easy time hitting Level 40 on non-CF routes unless we're going so fast that nobody is.

Okay, yes her physic does help her gain exp. I just finished GD Maddening, and think getting to lv 40 on marriane is still absurd. The speed to go at that the constant physic every turn is turtling or luring for a 4 move 1 range attack is rare outside of early game. I found my self at most using Marriane to physic rather than attack in almost every situation and never got to lv 30 to make up for her movement. GD gives you the best character to trivialize Ch 10, 11, 12, 15, 16, 18, 19, 20 and 21. And even a less going so fast rate, I can see combat units reaching lv 40 but not her.

On 11/9/2019 at 8:25 PM, Flere210 said:

That and the fact that if are level 35 you lose 2-3 points on average, wich would still kill quite a few things.

Where would you say this combat art would compared to others? More useful and pertinents than Hexblade since vs. Dorthea (pre-Anna release) but compared let's say frozen lance or encloser. 

 

 

With DK and Anna release, I wonder if they make specific arts (soulblade Anna since she comes early) or (glowing ember DK) better.

Edited by Johnzin

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16 hours ago, Johnzin said:

Okay, yes her physic does help her gain exp. I just finished GD Maddening, and think getting to lv 40 on marriane is still absurd.

On my last Maddening run, I had four units hit Level 40: Dimitri, Byleth, Mercedes, and Dorothea. One pair has an exp boost, the other... well, you can probably guess the common theme. Healing exp isn't reduced, and it's not like the healers can't chip in good damage at points too (in particular, they have free ORKOs on armours and GKs whom many of your physical units might struggle with). So I definitely disagree with your claims of absurdity.

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