Fe7 lords vs 3h lords

[ThatsEnoughBackTalk]

It's almost hilarious how polarising lyn, eliwood and hector are compared to edelgard, dimitri and claude

Lyn is fast, has slightly above average skill, but absolutely terrible strength and defensive stats. Her constitution is also high, making her hard to rescue. Mani katti is one of the better uniques, but is has pretty low might. She's also stuck on 5 mov for most of the time.

Eliwood is trash. I don't get why people like him, but is strength is bad, his speed is average and his other stats are mediocre. Rapier is also pretty situational as well. It takes ages for him to finally start doubling.

Hector is actually ok. Tanky, high strength, decent speed and his personal weapon wolf beil is amazing. He is, however, blocked from being great by his high constitution and his low movement for most of the game.

Edelgard: I talked about how godly she is on another post but here's a summary: godly mage, amazing stats, and is always one of your top 3 units.

Dimitri: highest strength in game, really high all round stats and an absolute powerhouse. Falls behind a bit because of lack of instructing for half of time skip

Claude: Best unit in game (arguably). 8 move, ridiculously high stats and growths, a flying class, and a great relic. I could go into far more detail, but I wont on this post

[indigoasis]

I'm not sure if it's really a fair contest. 3H has a lot of strong characters, and the main lords are no exception. Not only that, but the game heavily encourages unit building, and literally every character can easily reach some crazy high potential with enough investment. The past few FE games have encouraged character customization, whereas earlier titles, like FE7, have units fall into their own respective niches, which is to say that player freedom to make units whatever they want to be is limited. Character balance in past games also wasn't always great, and there were units that were already leagues better than others by the time they joined, or vice versa. Either a character gets benched because someone else who joined is already better (like Gordin being replaced by Castor), or a unit that joins already being cast under the shadow of a unit that's been in the army since the Prologue or Chapter 1 (like Sigurd and Seth versus literally everyone).

I still think that the FE7 lords are fantastic in their respective game; It's when they get compared to others in different games that they start to fall a little short.

One last thing that I want to mention is that each FE game has different difficulty levels (outside of the obvious difficulty settings). Both FE7 and 3H are fairly easy to begin with, but they require different strategies. I feel that FE7 requires a player to utilize almost every unit that they can get, while in 3H, you can have a smaller roster and still manage to power through just fine with a few characters.

[Florete]

53 minutes ago, ThatsEnoughBackTalk said:

Mani katti is one of the better uniques, but is has pretty low might.

Mani Katti has the MT of a Steel Sword and 20 crit. For comparison, Wolf Beil is only great because it's an axe with effectiveness against enemies that often use lances, its parameters otherwise are pretty average, having less MT than a Steel Axe and only 5 crit. 

Lyn's Str is also not bad for FE7 and its weak enemies.

53 minutes ago, ThatsEnoughBackTalk said:

Her constitution is also high, making her hard to rescue.

...What? What are you looking at? Lyn has 6 con after promotion. She's among the easiest units in the game to rescue.

[Benice]

58 minutes ago, ThatsEnoughBackTalk said:

Eliwood is trash. I don't get why people like him, but is strength is bad, his speed is average and his other stats are mediocre. Rapier is also pretty situational as well. It takes ages for him to finally start doubling

On Eliwood mode, I'd be inclined to agree, but on Hector mdoe, he's actually okay. On HHM, enemies have 9AS basically the whole game, and Eliwood reaches the threshold to double these enemies at 15/1from promotion bonuses or level 16, if you round up. His strength is low, but not crazy low, and his solid promotion makes him much better than Lyn, and to some extent, Hector in his mode, thanks to Hector's late and poor promotion. I'd say that Eliwood has more potential than the other lords, since Lyn is sword/bowlocked and infantry, and Hector will take a while to lug his 5-move armored self around the battlefield. Any paladin will probably do a better job than Eliwood, but he can do his job just fine.

1 hour ago, ThatsEnoughBackTalk said:

Her constitution is also high, making her hard to rescue

Isn't her CON the second lowest of any combat unit in the game?

[Sooks]

Ah yes, the days back when we had bad growths. I would say Claude is just a better Lyn; foreigners used to discrimination from where they’re from/who they’re related to (although Lyn barely experiences it) who are yet very high ranking nobility of the setting anyway, and despite wanting to return to their old place, stay in the main setting because they have something they want to do. They both show up seemingly out of nowhere causing a power dispute, because their moms fell in love with a guy from somewhere else and they were raised there, so with their moms absent (in Almyra or deceased respectively) they succeed their grandfathers instead. Finally, they also both can wield bows, despite having prf swords* (* prf weapons don’t really exist in three houses, but the closest you get are crest weapons, and Claude gets a crest of Riegan sword from his paralogue). They’re both meant to be very speedy but not as strong, Lyn has 40% strength growth, 20% defense growth, and 60% speed growth. Claude has 40% base strength growth, 30% defense growth, and 55% base speed growth.

Eliwood and Dimitri are also similar, polite and stoic and valiant and noble. They both also have an absent/dead dad, and end up killing the gal who the story somewhat ships them with. Of course Dimitri is supposed to take the archetype, flip it around, and smash into tiny little pieces and then kill every last one of them. The archetype is still there though. They also both can wield lances. Eliwood and Dimitri are supposed to be more balanced I would find, although Eliwood ends up sucking because he’s meh-bad in most stats whereas Dimitri is (iirc) good in every stat except mag and probably res. Eliwood has a 45% strength growth, a 40% speed growth, and a 30% speed growth. Dimitri has a 60% base strength growth, a 40% base defense growth, and a 50% base speed growth.

That leaves Edelgard and Hector. They both have axes as their man weapon and lead the biggest territory of the playable lords. They both have an established prior close relationship with the stoic lord way back from when they were kids, both are pretty cunning (although Hector isn’t very overt, he does say some questionable things), and both lose their siblings to a physical affliction. They both seem particularly passionate about destroying the secret shadow group then the rest of the cast. As units, they’re obviously meant to be the tankier lord of their games, with their designs incorporating them in armor, on top of the aforementioned primary ad wielding. Hector has a 60% strength growth, 50% defense growth, and a 35% speed growth. Edelgard has a base 55% strength growth, and... huh. A base 35% defense growth? She ends up semi tanky in her canon class anyway, but I assumed her growths would fit that... odd. She also has a base 40% speed growth. Well the more you know ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Yexin]

i don't think comparing FE7's trio to 3H's trio combat-wise makes the slightest sense, they're 2 completely different games

while personality-wise... neither? i mean the only similarities i see is that both games have 3 main lords, that both Lyn and Claude can use bows, same for Eliwood and Dimitri with lances and for Hector and Edelgard with axes
aside from these, i see no other similarities

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

7 hours ago, Florete said:

Mani Katti has the MT of a Steel Sword and 20 crit. For comparison, Wolf Beil is only great because it's an axe with effectiveness against enemies that often use lances, its parameters otherwise are pretty average, having less MT than a Steel Axe and only 5 crit. 

Lyn's Str is also not bad for FE7 and its weak enemies.

...What? What are you looking at? Lyn has 6 con after promotion. She's among the easiest units in the game to rescue.

Seconding all of this. Lyn's not a very good unit, but the initial rationale given for this is inconsistent with the facts.

Anyway, this is kind of a weird comparison. The Three Houses lords are each specific to a route, while the Blazing Blade trio work together. Each 3H Lord is stronger individually, and gets a powerful semi-personal weapon into the lategame. Meanwhile, the FE7 Lords, while weaker individually, can benefit from early Prf weapons and supports with one another.

8 hours ago, ThatsEnoughBackTalk said:

Eliwood is trash. I don't get why people like him, but is strength is bad, his speed is average and his other stats are mediocre. Rapier is also pretty situational as well. It takes ages for him to finally start doubling.

Eliwood's bases and growths are pretty balanced overall - I've found his performance to be very susceptible to being blessed or screwed in particular areas. His biggest problem is being sword-locked infantry for most of the game, while his biggest boon is getting a horse and lances toward the end of the game.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

This is...a strange comparison to make. Entirely different styles of Fire Emblem, separated by almost two whole decades, with entirely different story scenarios and settings.

[ThatsEnoughBackTalk]

21 hours ago, Benice said:

On Eliwood mode, I'd be inclined to agree, but on Hector mdoe, he's actually okay. On HHM, enemies have 9AS basically the whole game, and Eliwood reaches the threshold to double these enemies at 15/1from promotion bonuses or level 16, if you round up. His strength is low, but not crazy low, and his solid promotion makes him much better than Lyn, and to some extent, Hector in his mode, thanks to Hector's late and poor promotion. I'd say that Eliwood has more potential than the other lords, since Lyn is sword/bowlocked and infantry, and Hector will take a while to lug his 5-move armored self around the battlefield. Any paladin will probably do a better job than Eliwood, but he can do his job just fine.

Isn't her CON the second lowest of any combat unit in the game?

Probably honestly. I was looking at a page at all of their con and aid and must've misread

[ThatsEnoughBackTalk]

I also probably should've mentioned how much it sucks to be swordlocked on 5 movement as well. Getting swordlocked in any fe game is pretty bad honestly. Even in awakening, the land of every unit being miles better than seth, getting swordlocked still sucks