FE5 Tier List

[Don Draper]

Yeah, scrolls should be considered, but they don't really change anything now that I look again. Like I said, characters with poor strength and build would go down, and to a lesser extent: defense (Dain scroll comes in at midgame, so its not exactly available for all that long).

[Mekkah]

1) Its not ordered. A proper tier list should not be alphabetical, it should rank the characters in order of how useful they are.

I always sort them out alphabetically within tiers before working on individual rankings.

3) You're missing characters. All the B route characters actually. I don't care which route you prefer, they should still be on there.

I already explained why it's this way, don't just dismiss it like that.

4) In a proper tier list, a character should be judged on his own merits. You can't put Cyas down because he's not as good as Sety. They should be judged individually. After all, nobody is going to have the same team every playthrough

Sometimes, recruiting and using a certain character has certain problems. Recruiting Wallace means missing Geitz. Recruiting Karel means missing Harken and a Brave Sword. Recruiting Farina means you lose 40k you could have spent elsewhere. I don't see how this is different.

5) There seems to be a bit too much personal experience involved. For example, Olwen in Top Tier is ridiculous.

Mount, availability, hax Prf weapons, good growths, high Mag, 1-2 range and no need for a Knight Crest? If that isn't top tier, I don't know what is. I never go by personal experience.

6) In FE5, killing enemies is not a problem. It's surviving them. Therfore, characters like Mareeta should go down as their offense is overkill, while her defense is lacking. And remember, 1 RN means avoid is much less reliable then before.

You can never have enough offense when bosses sit on thrones that give 10 Def/30% avo, and terrain gives insane bonuses. Mareeta also has the hit to pierce these stacked leaderships enemies tend to have.

7) Scrolls really shouldn't be considered. Essentially giving a character scrolls is favourtism.

Do you completely ignore FE9/FE10 BEXP, FE4 rings, higher up weapons etc as well?

I am not advocating everyone to be scrollwhored, if that's what you mean. I'm merely saying they make having good stats less important than certain traits such as having your own weapon or an awesome skill, which you cannot get through scrolls.

In other news, FE5 trading is superflexible, and scrolls have infinite uses.

Mareeta down to high, probably just below Dean. She comes in underlevelled, has a poor earlygame (In the chapter she comes, she's getting 2HKO'd and getting hit at 30-45%, that's not good with 1 RN), she loses speed from quite a few swords due to poor build, and has ho-hum defense.

The chapter she comes in has 127893219 forests to enforce low hit with. Between the possibility of Elite Sword, Elite manual, and generally growing really fast with the best growths in the game, her being underleveled doesn't hurt her all that much. Her Leaf support also helps her.

Olwen way down, probably to Upper Mid somewhere. Her 20/20 stats are on par with Asvel's at Level 20/1. Daimthunder is terrible, as it weighs her down by 12, she has awful starting stats, she can't fight physically thanks to her awful build, she has awful defense, has a terrible start (Brigands double her in the chapter she comes thanks to how heavy Daimthunder is, I could go on but Olwen really is a mediocre character.

Being weighed down matters little when you don't take counters and have a weapon that whacks everything twice. And she can always be traded Wind on enemy phase, etc. Her bases are bad "for her level (not that it matters)", but she joins when people are still quite a way from promotion, and her growth are good.

Lara to the top because her dancing a Warp staff user=beating any chapter in 1 turn. Amazingly useful for Chapter 22 for example.

Maybe if you're SSSing for some reason. 1-2 turn Warp completes are pretty lame, to the point where you're not really playing the game. Also, Lara is running around with iirc the lowest HP/Def combo in the game, and growths that even scrolls can hardly fix. Also, she gets fatigued rather quickly.

I don't understand what makes Conomore so special.

He's not special. But he's more useful than a crap unit, since he can be a packing mule that gives everyone and their mom leadership support.

Cyas up, because he's actually a pretty decent staff user. Any character with A in staves=Amazingly useful.

Except that in order to use Cyas and his A staves, I sacrifice Sety with his A staves, so it really isn't worth anything. All he has is a tink of leadership, and his joining chapter performance.

Dagda up to being very useful for capturing earlygame.

I don't get where "very useful" is but a unit with Charge and the Spd of a snail is nowhere near useful, despite some earlygame usefulness.

[TheEnd]

Except that in order to use Cyas and his A staves, I sacrifice Sety with his A staves, so it really isn't worth anything. All he has is a tink of leadership, and his joining chapter performance.

More like the highest leadership stat you can get.

[Don Draper]

I always sort them out alphabetically within tiers before working on individual rankings.

Then why bother posting an incomplete tier list?

I already explained why it's this way, don't just dismiss it like that.

Yeah, and you had terrible reasoning. You assume that every single person is going to take the same route every single time they play the game.

Sometimes, recruiting and using a certain character has certain problems. Recruiting Wallace means missing Geitz. Recruiting Karel means missing Harken and a Brave Sword. Recruiting Farina means you lose 40k you could have spent elsewhere. I don't see how this is different.

For Wallace and Karel, their tier placements are not affected by the other characters.

Mount, availability, hax Prf weapons, good growths, high Mag, 1-2 range and no need for a Knight Crest? If that isn't top tier, I don't know what is. I never go by personal experience.

Wow, thanks for not reading a word I said. READ my post please, and respond to it. Again

-She has a weak start. Her bases are not good when you compare her stats to everybody else

-Daimthunder weighs her down to the point where she has 0 AS until Level 6, and her AS is still only 6 at 20/20. If she's attacked, she dies. Holy Sword comes way too late.

-Good growths mean nothing when your average stats still suck. Again, 20/1 Asvel>>>20/20 Olwen in stats.

-If Olwen gets attacked, she'll die, so what's the point in 1-2 range? You're no better off then an Archer

-You get 13 Knight Crests automatically, and you can steal them from dancer reinforcments in 12x. Not using a Knight's Crest isn't a big deal considering

You can never have enough offense when bosses sit on thrones that give 10 Def/30% avo, and terrain gives insane bonuses. Mareeta also has the hit to pierce these stacked leaderships enemies tend to have.

And she's getting OHKO'd by bosses, what's your point?

Do you completely ignore FE9/FE10 BEXP, FE4 rings, higher up weapons etc as well?

I am not advocating everyone to be scrollwhored, if that's what you mean. I'm merely saying they make having good stats less important than certain traits such as having your own weapon or an awesome skill, which you cannot get through scrolls.

In other news, FE5 trading is superflexible, and scrolls have infinite uses.

Already responded to this, you're right.

The chapter she comes in has 127893219 forests to enforce low hit with. Between the possibility of Elite Sword, Elite manual, and generally growing really fast with the best growths in the game, her being underleveled doesn't hurt her all that much. Her Leaf support also helps her.

Again READ MY POST. WITH Forests, she's still getting 2HKO'd, and getting hit about every fourth strike. That's not good. And giving her the Elite Sword and Elite Manual is favourtism.

Being weighed down matters little when you don't take counters and have a weapon that whacks everything twice. And she can always be traded Wind on enemy phase, etc. Her bases are bad "for her level (not that it matters)", but she joins when people are still quite a way from promotion, and her growth are good.

Her bases are bad compared to the rest of the cast. And if she's not taking counters, then she's as bad as an archer, except with WORSE hit. And Wind's aren't exactly easy to come by early andmid game.

Maybe if you're SSSing for some reason. 1-2 turn Warp completes are pretty lame, to the point where you're not really playing the game. Also, Lara is running around with iirc the lowest HP/Def combo in the game, and growths that even scrolls can hardly fix. Also, she gets fatigued rather quickly.

Beating the game faster and more effectiently is lame? You're right, why don't we all take our time. Who cares about our rank?

He's not special. But he's more useful than a crap unit, since he can be a packing mule that gives everyone and their mom leadership support.

3% Hit and avoid, big deal

Except that in order to use Cyas and his A staves, I sacrifice Sety with his A staves, so it really isn't worth anything. All he has is a tink of leadership, and his joining chapter performance.

I already explained this.

I don't get where "very useful" is but a unit with Charge and the Spd of a snail is nowhere near useful, despite some earlygame usefulness.

Endgame isn't the entire game you know.

I may of sounded a little bit harsh, but you ignoring everything I said about Olwen made me pretty angry. You might of done this because I insulted your list, but I only wanted to improve it. Please actually read and consider my oringal post. Thank you.

Edited November 29, 2008 by IOS

[Swordsalmon]

Alright, this tier list needs quite a bit of work. A few major problems I see with it

1) Its not ordered. A proper tier list should not be alphabetical, it should rank the characters in order of how useful they are.

2) High tier has about half the characters. Should be split into High and Upper Mid, with Mid being renamed Lower Mid.

3) You're missing characters. All the B route characters actually. I don't care which route you prefer, they should still be on there.

4) In a proper tier list, a character should be judged on his own merits. You can't put Cyas down because he's not as good as Sety. They should be judged individually. After all, nobody is going to have the same team every playthrough

5) There seems to be a bit too much personal experience involved. For example, Olwen in Top Tier is ridiculous.

6) In FE5, killing enemies is not a problem. It's surviving them. Therfore, characters like Mareeta should go down as their offense is overkill, while her defense is lacking. And remember, 1 RN means avoid is much less reliable then before.

7) Scrolls really shouldn't be considered. Essentially giving a character scrolls is favourtism.

So if I were to order the tier list, and split High, it would look something like this:

-Top-

Safy

Fin

Othin

Shiva

Asvel

Rifis

Pahn

Fergus

[Mareeta]

[Olwen]

-High-

[Halvan]

[Lara]

Nanna

Brighton

Sara

Tina

Dean

Carrion

Homer

Linoan

Upper Mid

Sety

Galzus

Leaf

Karin

Salem

Machua

Trewd

[Hicks]

- Lower Mid-

Xavier

Kein

Alva

Robert

Dalsin

Delmud

Glade

Fred

[Conomore]

-Low-

[Cyas]

[Dagda]

Ralph

Eda

Eyvel

Miranda

Tanya

Bottom-

Marty

Selphina

Ronan

Shanam

Characters in Paranthesis, I think should change positions. Here's why:

Mareeta down to high, probably just below Dean. She comes in underlevelled, has a poor earlygame (In the chapter she comes, she's getting 2HKO'd and getting hit at 30-45%, that's not good with 1 RN), she loses speed from quite a few swords due to poor build, and has ho-hum defense.

Olwen way down, probably to Upper Mid somewhere. Her 20/20 stats are on par with Asvel's at Level 20/1. Daimthunder is terrible, as it weighs her down by 12, she has awful starting stats, she can't fight physically thanks to her awful build, she has awful defense, has a terrible start (Brigands double her in the chapter she comes thanks to how heavy Daimthunder is, I could go on but Olwen really is a mediocre character.

Halvan to top. His stats are on par with Olthin's, he has 4 CCR, has Ambush which is godly with a Hero Axe (he'll kill anything before they get a chance to hit him), and is an earlygame capturing-god. And he comes early. Top Tier for sure.

Lara to the top because her dancing a Warp staff user=beating any chapter in 1 turn. Amazingly useful for Chapter 22 for example.

Hicks down. His stats kind of suck, he has no skills, and only 2 CCR (Don't hurt me Swordsalmon)

I don't understand what makes Conomore so special.

Cyas up, because he's actually a pretty decent staff user. Any character with A in staves=Amazingly useful.

Dagda up to being very useful for capturing earlygame.

As to some other points people brought up:

Machya to top? Not at all. Ambush is useless when you have fail offense (Worse then Tanya's for gods sake), and she's not all that useful during the prison break chapters.

Brighton should stay where he is thanks to Wrath and good defense

And you need to include the characters from the other route.

Comment on anything you disagree with.

Indeed, but the most important thing at first is just getting the characters all in a general tier.

Most characters in the game are pretty good. Perhapsthe lower High characters should be moved to the top of Mid, for the ease of fewer tiers.

Indeed. :)

Getting Cyas means losing the best end-game magic user in the game for a small Leadership bonus. Recruiting Sety makes the team far stronger than with Cyas, as the former has Holsety and supports with the Magi characters, while Cyas gives only that small Leadership bonus. Losing Sety is much worse than losing Cyas.

Olwen should be dropped a bit, but not so far. Daim Thunder is extremely strong and can use Swords to increase durability on the enemy's phase. For end-game, Olwen then gets the Holy Sword. By being a prepromote, Olwen doesn't cost a Knight's Proof.

I disagree with scrolls not being factored in. They don't lose durability and can be used between multiple characters. So of course, characters joining earlier would have an advantage, but utility will mean more than stats.

Why is Leaf, Karin, and Hicks so low? Leaf has the Light Sword to keep up good offense, is supporting multiple characters, and gets support from Nanna. Karin is supporting Felgus and has great flier utility. Hicks is actually Narga and deserves his own tier.

Halvan does deserve Top, agreed.

Lara is fatigued very quickly and has awful stats. Even retaining Theif utility, she can't steal much due to her low Build that even scrolls can't fix.

Blasphemy! Someone ban this man for defying Hicks! But really, Hicks is pretty good. He joins early enough with decent bases, has one of the best classes in the game, and probably the best user of the Hero Axe. With it, Hicks can capture everyone with his enormous build. He should get High, albeit near the bottom of High.

Conomore has pretty nice bases in that part of the game. ^_^

He's using those Staves for only a few chapters, though. :/

Dagdar has terrible AS, though. After his rejoin, Dagdar isn't doubling anything and has no supports.

Ambush really helps Machuya's offense. During the Manster chapters, she can two-round the Loldiers by DAing on the player's phase, then killing the enemy instantly on their phase. Also, Machuya gains good Build and Speed.

[TheEnd]

But really, Hicks is pretty good. He joins early enough with decent bases, has one of the best classes in the game

Wait, what?

[Don Draper]

Indeed, but the most important thing at first is just getting the characters all in a general tier.

True enough, although that probably should of been done before posting...

Most characters in the game are pretty good. Perhapsthe lower High characters should be moved to the top of Mid, for the ease of fewer tiers.

On his list? Probably.

Getting Cyas means losing the best end-game magic user in the game for a small Leadership bonus. Recruiting Sety makes the team far stronger than with Cyas, as the former has Holsety and supports with the Magi characters, while Cyas gives only that small Leadership bonus. Losing Sety is much worse than losing Cyas.

Again, characters should be judged on their own merits. Nobody is going to be using the same team every playthrough. And if Cyas was gotten automatically without losing Sety, he'd be fairly high.

Olwen should be dropped a bit, but not so far. Daim Thunder is extremely strong and can use Swords to increase durability on the enemy's phase. For end-game, Olwen then gets the Holy Sword. By being a prepromote, Olwen doesn't cost a Knight's Proof.

Daim Thunder makes her unable to attack on enemy phase though, as she'll be doubled. Maybe to Lower Mid, but somewhere in Upper Mid?

I disagree with scrolls not being factored in. They don't lose durability and can be used between multiple characters. So of course, characters joining earlier would have an advantage, but utility will mean more than stats.

Yeah, you're right.

Why is Leaf, Karin, and Hicks so low? Leaf has the Light Sword to keep up good offense, is supporting multiple characters, and gets support from Nanna. Karin is supporting Felgus and has great flier utility. Hicks is actually Narga and deserves his own tier.

I actually meant to put Leaf in High. Karin is a terrible fighter, but I agree, she is pretty useful. Top of Upper Mid perhaps?

Lara is fatigued very quickly and has awful stats. Even retaining Theif utility, she can't steal much due to her low Build that even scrolls can't fix.

Assuming she's a dancer, I'll just let skadabra65 explain why she's so useful:

Now, dancing in FE5 is much more useful than in say FE7, because there is, umm, a much wider range of reasons to dance, you are not confined to simply giving a fighter unit another turn. I'll have to go chapter by chapter since it's very situational.

13 - this is quite important for a good advance on the first turn. The ballista at the top can be attacked with a range 2 weapon, but no one can actually get to it in time, so normally it would be a pain. With Lara, you can dance Leaf, Nanna, etc. into range 2 of it to kill it. This allows the rest of the party to advance, and whoever got the ballista can also handle the bow knights on the enemy phase. The ballista at the top is out of range to attack. Karin would be able to take care of that, except she cannot safely reach the ballista - it is range 10, and Karin has 8 move: the closest safe spot is 11 squares away and if she charges the ballista from there she ends up 3 squares away which is still in range. With Lara, she can go to 10 squares of the ballista, Lara steps to 11 squares away, refreshes Karin, and the turn ends with both of them safe: Lara outside the ballista's range and Karin inside it. Karin then kills the ballista on the next two turns. Alternatively if Karin has enough strength she can just 2HKO the thing and then you don't need to be as careful about positioning. Lara is fragile, but you can and should stick a guy on the bow knight reinforcement spot anyway, then Karin can fly her into the escape square.

This is of course not all required but it does make things easier to not have to deal with ballistas shooting at you on every turn. Plus you have to kill the one on the bottom anyway since most of the party cannot take two ballista shots without dying.

14 - Safy is most likely the only one with a B or above rank in staves at this point. Meaning Lara is required in order to get the Dragon Lance since Safy needs to pull off a Warp and a Rescue in one turn or Dean will be annihilated. Also this should be done early since there is only a window of a few turns for Dean to break out of the city and go towards the village with Resire. Also, your supply of vulneraries not being infinite, you will want the 3 defenders to be healed via staff. However, the healers are all somewhat fragile and if they heal a defender they will end up within range 2 of the enemy. Therefore the best healer in this chapter is Nanna, who can provide Charisma, and on every turn heal someone and return to her original position. Safy gives Nanna an extra turn of healing each time, or she can refresh a healer who is currently within range of the enemy (because they just healed) to let the healer get to safety. Trying to accomplish the same thing via rescuing and dropping is quite tricky because you have very little room to maneuver.

14x - useless

15 - whichever flyer is carrying Leaf gets there that much faster. I'm not sure if you can save the top village without Lara, you might do it with a re-move but the percentage chance of that is low.

16A - shouldn't be too useful here.

17A - when ranking is concerned, it really helps to be able to warp the assassin to kill the boss and warp Leaf to take the throne in the same turn since the assassin will have to take quite some hits otherwise, although this depends on how awesome your assassin is by the point. Without Warp you are basically doomed to have to face Cyas.

18 - The chest on the top left should be reachable in time; the thief gets there first but you can block him from getting to the exit and then capture him. The Body ring needs the thief staff to be gotten. But Lara can be very useful in letting you block the dark mage reinforcement point. If they start showing up and rewarping all over the place things get more complicated (then again, you may want them to show up so you can pick up some Rewarp staves). Also, again, you can pull the double warp trick again to kill Gustav and get Leaf to the throne in the same turn, although it is not as important here since the assassin will be standing on an evade boosting square so you can settle for sending Leaf in on the following turn.

19 - not too useful here, but no one is particularly useful here anyway - the only thing to do is run.

20 - not too useful here

21 - this chapter is really a pain unless you just assassinate the boss and warp Leaf to the castle (this should be in the same turn BTW, there's 3 ballistas and quite a few enemies around there). The number of ballistas is enormous and there is basically no way to easily proceed without waiting them all out. You do have Sleuf by this point and probably Sara, but fatigue being what it is, Lara acts as a stand-in staff user so you can let people rest.

21x - saves quite a few turns and possibly items since Tina probably needs a holy water in order to steal Warp staves, but the effect of that wears off with time. You also need some fast Rescues.

22 - Very important. You want to 1) get a magic boost on Tina 2) steal Coen's Berserk staff 3) warp a unit over to make Cyas leave, 4) rescue the unit back all in the same turn. Lara makes this easier since otherwise you need... 1 M Up staff user, 1 Tina, 1 Warp user, 1 Rescue user all at the same time. Lara can stand in for any of them other than Tina.

23 - I don't really feel like typing any more other than to say that Tina is really useful in 24 and 24x because you need a really big round 1 assault in both maps (in 24 it's to neutralize the Schwarze Rosen and in 24x it's to storm the middle room, both cases it's because of enemy status staves).

As you can see, she saves tons of turns, and is very useful.

Blasphemy! Someone ban this man for defying Hicks! But really, Hicks is pretty good. He joins early enough with decent bases, has one of the best classes in the game, and probably the best user of the Hero Axe. With it, Hicks can capture everyone with his enormous build. He should get High, albeit near the bottom of High.

Nah, Halvan's the best user of the Hero Axe (Ambush means he'll never get touched). Hicks can go up though.

Conomore has pretty nice bases in that part of the game. ^_^

Level 5 Ralph has better stats then him, and he'll probably be higher then Level 5 if you use him :/

He's using those Staves for only a few chapters, though. :/

True...I need to think about Cyas's position.

Dagdar has terrible AS, though. After his rejoin, Dagdar isn't doubling anything and has no supports.

Top of Low then?

Ambush really helps Machuya's offense. During the Manster chapters, she can two-round the Loldiers by DAing on the player's phase, then killing the enemy instantly on their phase. Also, Machuya gains good Build and Speed.

It's kind of situational though. I can't see her being in top...how's high?

New tier list:

-Top-

Safy

Fin

Othin

Shiva

Asvel

Halvan

Rifis

Pahn

Fergus

Lara

High

Nanna

Brighton

Sara

Tina

Dean

Mareeta

Carrion

Leaf

Homer

Linoan

Hicks

Machua

Upper Mid

Karin

Sety

Galzus

Olwen

Salem

Trewd

Lower Mid

Xavier

Kein

Alva

Robert

Dalsin

Delmud

Glade

Fred

Low

Cyas

Dagda

Ralph

Conomore

Eda

Eyvel

Miranda

Tanya

Bottom

Marty

Selphina

Ronan

Shanam

I think a few people from High need to go in Upper Mid...

Edited November 28, 2008 by IOS

[Rodykitty]

Concerning tiers and stat boosting scrolls, while it's true that you can make lesser characters more useful, you can give scrolls to higher/top tier characters to amplify already awesome stats. If anything, scrolls/orb shards would help enforce tiers rather than eliminate them.

[Mekkah]

Then why bother posting an incomplete tier list?

To get input on the general placements (top, high, mid, low, bottom) before moving on.

Yeah, and you had terrible reasoning. You assume that every single person is going to take the same route every single time they play the game.

No, this is a tier list for people that take this route. The other route would have a slightly different tier list. I can't be arsed taking into account the difference between A route and B route in one tier list. One route is better than the other, so I'd have to take that into account, and hurt the A route characters accordingly, while also taking into account that there's some kind of likeliness Othin gets an extra Pugi, etc.

For Wallace and Karel, their tier placements are not affected by the other characters.

They are last time I checked. For Wallace it's not needed, since even if you didn't sacrifice Geitz and the better route to get him, he still has ass move and Spd. Karel's combat is Mid tier at the very least.

Wow, thanks for not reading a word I said. READ my post please, and respond to it. Again

The paragraph I was responding to did not have your reasoning. You merely said Olwen in Top tier was ridiculous.

-You get 13 Knight Crests automatically, and you can steal them from dancer reinforcments in 12x. Not using a Knight's Crest isn't a big deal considering

There's only one dancer reinforcement in 12x, and it comes on turn 30, and you have to rape your flexibility in the ass to get it (you have to not touch any dancers, making getting treasure that much harder, as well as generally progressing).

Most unit would promote around Ch15-Ch17. You get nine until Ch13, then the tenth in 16A/17B. Anyone after the tenth promotes late. One more at the start of 20, and one in the middle of 20, which is promoting later than Leaf does (and he gets bashed for his promotion a lot). 21x has one, but you may not even want to go there, and to get it you either have to delve into the mess of a prison or use Thief Staff. Then 22 has one, and there's one in 24x you can't really get until you're mad (well, you are for doing this chapter, actually).

And she's getting OHKO'd by bosses, what's your point?

Ignoring her chances to rape them before they even getting countered, she doesn't get OHKOed after she catches up in level.

Again READ MY POST. WITH Forests, she's still getting 2HKO'd, and getting hit about every fourth strike. That's not good. And giving her the Elite Sword and Elite Manual is favourtism.

Good thing brigands don't exactly come with more than 1-2 at a time, and she has a vulnerary. Yeah, it's favouritism, just like every other resource in the game. The fact that those exist is a good thing for her.

And Wind's aren't exactly easy to come by early andmid game.

Wind is buyable in Ch12, lol.

Beating the game faster and more effectiently is lame? You're right, why don't we all take our time. Who cares about our rank?

This is not for SSS, since SSS isn't playing the game as much as repeatedly abusing savestates to get move again, movement growth, etc

If you wanted a ranked tier list, here it is.

-Good-

Saphy

Othin

Asvel

Linoan

Sara

Tina

Sleuf

Lara

Lifis

Parn

Sety

Galzus

Mareeta

-Bad-

Everyone else

-Fuck You-

Xavier

3% Hit and avoid, big deal

3% for every single fight for every character on the map. That's pretty good.

Endgame isn't the entire game you know.

But earlygame isn't either, and earlygame maps are shorter than endgame maps. And he sucks in midgame.

I may of sounded a little bit harsh, but you ignoring everything I said about Olwen made me pretty angry. You might of done this because I insulted your list, but I only wanted to improve it. Please actually read and consider my oringal post. Thank you.

people being e-rude is a pet peeve of mine but ok

Either way, concerning Olwen. I might have been a little biased, but I do think her additional properties take priority over her statistical disadvantages. I think she's better off in High than in (Upper) Mid, perhaps even better than in Top.

Note that on the instance that Olwen is attacked when holding Daim Thunder, she gets hit once, then she probably kills the enemy before it can attack again. Or she can get Ambush (omg favouritism...except who the fuck wants to use Ambush as well? Fin maybe) and rape enemies before they attack her.

Anyway, I'll continue to work on your list since it's more complete anyway. I assume it's to complete the game in as few turns as possible or something.

Linoan > Sara imo. Resire + availability + no Knight Proof + level lead + Dean support > skillz, especially when 2 of Sara's skillz rely on her being attacked, and she hates being attacked.

Fergus > Halvan imo. Prison break + mutual Karin support + mount matters more than Ambush + Hero Axe and the earlygame maps.

Concerning tiers and stat boosting scrolls, while it's true that you can make lesser characters more useful, you can give scrolls to higher/top tier characters to amplify already awesome stats. If anything, scrolls/orb shards would help enforce tiers rather than eliminate them.

What scrolls do imo is making stat leads less important. Asvel is a lot faster than Dalshien, but since Sety scroll is there, that Spd lead matters less. Sure, you can give the Sety scroll to Asvel as well, but then he just caprams Spd three levels earlier or something. It doesn't help him nearly as much as it helps Dalshien, so it improves Dalshien's position relatively to Asvel.

[Don Draper]

To get input on the general placements (top, high, mid, low, bottom) before moving on.

Fair enough

No, this is a tier list for people that take this route. The other route would have a slightly different tier list. I can't be arsed taking into account the difference between A route and B route in one tier list. One route is better than the other, so I'd have to take that into account, and hurt the A route characters accordingly, while also taking into account that there's some kind of likeliness Othin gets an extra Pugi, etc.

Well, most tier lists include both routes. FE6's still includes Dayan, even though Ilia>>>>>Sacae.

They are last time I checked. For Wallace it's not needed, since even if you didn't sacrifice Geitz and the better route to get him, he still has ass move and Spd. Karel's combat is Mid tier at the very least.

I'll have to look into this.

The paragraph I was responding to did not have your reasoning. You merely said Olwen in Top tier was ridiculous.

Oh, ok.

There's only one dancer reinforcement in 12x, and it comes on turn 30, and you have to rape your flexibility in the ass to get it (you have to not touch any dancers, making getting treasure that much harder, as well as generally progressing).

Most unit would promote around Ch15-Ch17. You get nine until Ch13, then the tenth in 16A/17B. Anyone after the tenth promotes late. One more at the start of 20, and one in the middle of 20, which is promoting later than Leaf does (and he gets bashed for his promotion a lot). 21x has one, but you may not even want to go there, and to get it you either have to delve into the mess of a prison or use Thief Staff. Then 22 has one, and there's one in 24x you can't really get until you're mad (well, you are for doing this chapter, actually).

Which reminds me, Leaf down due to his late promotion and kind of meh earlygame. If he didn't have the Light Sword, he'd be one of the worst characters in the game :/

Ignoring her chances to rape them before they even getting countered, she doesn't get OHKOed after she catches up in level.

Good thing brigands don't exactly come with more than 1-2 at a time, and she has a vulnerary. Yeah, it's favouritism, just like every other resource in the game. The fact that those exist is a good thing for her.

She does? I could of sworn she just started with her PRF blade.

Wind is buyable in Ch12, lol.

Buying stuff in this game is meh. You have barely any money, and you can get most of your stuff from capturing. I guess you'd have enough if you sold all your bows, but still....

3% for every single fight for every character on the map. That's pretty good.

Is that small bonus worth fielding a crappy character? That's kind of eh.

But earlygame isn't either, and earlygame maps are shorter than endgame maps. And he sucks in midgame.

Yeah, he's in low. I can't really see him going much lower

Either way, concerning Olwen. I might have been a little biased, but I do think her additional properties take priority over her statistical disadvantages. I think she's better off in High than in (Upper) Mid, perhaps even better than in Top.

Note that on the instance that Olwen is attacked when holding Daim Thunder, she gets hit once, then she probably kills the enemy before it can attack again. Or she can get Ambush (omg favouritism...except who the fuck wants to use Ambush as well? Fin maybe) and rape enemies before they attack her.

If she hits both times, but yeah this is pretty useful.

Anyway, I'll continue to work on your list since it's more complete anyway. I assume it's to complete the game in as few turns as possible or something.

Yeah, I'd say for AAA or at least A.

Linoan > Sara imo. Resire + availability + no Knight Proof + level lead + Dean support > skillz, especially when 2 of Sara's skillz rely on her being attacked, and she hates being attacked.

Alright, I'll make that change

Fergus > Halvan imo. Prison break + mutual Karin support + mount matters more than Ambush + Hero Axe and the earlygame maps.

Karin's probably going to be off rescuing a village or something, so that support probably won't be in effect all the time. And while Fergus is useful for the Prison Break maps, he's still not the best character, that'd be Brighton. Him having no skills kind of hurts him too. Halvan also has 2 range over Fergus (He'll have to use a magic sword, which everybody wants).

In other news, sorry Swordsalmon but I think Hicks and Machua might have to go to Upper Mid, simply because High's way to crowded. I'm having second thoughts on Hicks too, he's like Brighton without the prison break usefulness or wrath. I forgot about how bad Leaf's promotion is, making his mid-late game bad. And he has a bad start. He goes down to Upper Mid again

Oh, and I'll include the other route characters if that's okay.

Tier List:

New tier list:

-Top-

Safy

Fin

Othin

Shiva

Asvel

Halvan

Fergus

Rifis

Pahn

Lara

High

Nanna

Brighton

Tina

Dean

Mareeta

Olwen

Carrion

Homer

Linoan

Sara

Upper Mid

Sleuf

Machua

Hicks

Karin

Leaf

Sety

Galzus

Salem

Trewd

Lower Mid

Eryios

Xavier

Kein

Alva

Robert

Dalsin

Delmud

Glade

Amalda

Fred

Low

Cyas

Dagda

Ralph

Conomore

Eda

Eyvel

Misha

Miranda

Tanya

Bottom

Marty

Selphina

Ronan

Shanam

Any other suggestions?

[Don Draper]

Double post, delete please

Edited November 29, 2008 by IOS

[Mekkah]

Well, most tier lists include both routes. FE6's still includes Dayan, even though Ilia>>>>>Sacae.

Well, those are not my lists. FE6 also has less variables to include than FE5, making it less of a pain to go through the consequences of Ilia vs Sacae. I believe you get roughly the same items either way, and it's pretty clear that going to Sacae devastates your ranks sorely, while Ilia helps it.

Buying stuff in this game is meh. You have barely any money, and you can get most of your stuff from capturing. I guess you'd have enough if you sold all your bows, but still....

Capture dudes with Short Bows, sell garbage like Elfire, maybe long-range tomes...and soon enough you get to capture Dark Mages with Jormung and Rewarp. You only need like 1-2 Rewarp staves for all your staff users, if that, so the rest can be sold. etc...

And it's not really much of a point against Olwen. She has the most Prf weapons out of anyone. Wind is twice as expensive as Iron Sword/Lance though (same price for one package, but half the amount of uses)...but meh. She can also go around using Thunder for most game, of which you can capture lots of.

Is that small bonus worth fielding a crappy character? That's kind of eh.

Whenever you get enough unit slots, I'd do it. I'd rather field Conomore and his mini misc tasks than some crappy dude who isn't good for anything.

If she hits both times, but yeah this is pretty useful.

Well, Daim Thunder has the same hit as Hero Axe...granted, Halvan has more base Hit, and the consequences for him not hitting are not as dire, but Olwen also has 10% hit through Leaf support.

In other news, sorry Swordsalmon but I think Hicks and Machua might have to go to Upper Mid

I would agree with both of these.

I forgot about how bad Leaf's promotion is, making his mid-late game bad. And he has a bad start. He goes down to Upper Mid again

Well, if you're going for some kind of ranked game, I guess. What I like about Leaf when tiering is that

- he is fielded in every map, meaning it is much much more convenient to level him than to not do so (whereas it wouldn't make as much of a difference as for, say, Othin)

- he cannot fatigue

- leadership/move again for all it's worth

- hugest availability of everyone

- no Knight Proof

new tier list

Come to think of it, why is Carrion below Mareeta? They're both underleveled, but Carrion joins much earlier, and his durability is plenty better.

Iono what criteria you are using for different route characters...if you are simply ignoring "other route is better", then maybe Eyrios should be a bit higher?

Dashin seems a bit low. He is your main capturing dude for prison break, and a living wall. Pretty much your Marty, but with good Def. Also, he's the only way to make use of the Brave Axe during those chapters, and it makes him awfully convenient. As he is now, he is put below the three underleveled Lenster/Dorias Knights. I'll admit Hammers, Armorslayers and Rapiers are actually a threat in this game though.

Yeah, I'd say for AAA or at least A.

Well, strategies for that would be roughly equal to those for SSS, except less stress.

[MageInTraining]

Tier List:

New tier list:

-Top-

Safy

Fin

Othin

Shiva

Asvel

Halvan

Fergus

Rifis

Pahn

Lara

High

Nanna

Brighton

Tina

Dean

Mareeta

Olwen

Carrion

Homer

Linoan

Sara

Upper Mid

Sleuf

Machua

Hicks

Karin

Leaf

Sety

Galzus

Salem

Trewd

Lower Mid

Eryios

Xavier

Kein

Alva

Robert

Dalsin

Delmud

Glade

Amalda

Fred

Low

Cyas

Dagda

Ralph

Conomore

Eda

Eyvel

Misha

Miranda

Tanya

Bottom

Marty

Selphina

Ronan

Shanam

Robert in lower-mid? Wth? He is by far the best Archer in the game, hands down. He takes a little bit to take off, but so do half the units that have just been debated(Read:Mareeta). His only major flaw is that his weapon level takes a longgg time to grow; Other then that, being mounted, having AMAZING growths, and being the best unit to take advantage of the Brave Bow Selphina will probably never use on the bench is more then enough reason for Upper-Mid to High.

Why is Brighton high? He is trash past Chapter 7. He has one of the worst weapon types to use when mounted, terrible, TERRIBLE growths, and a lack of real base stats. Sure, he has Elite, but so does Othin, and why you wouldn't use him over Brighton is beyond me~

Lara should be slightly lower. Yes, she can promote like three times, but the odds of you actually succeeding in doing this are slim, and it wastes Knight Proofs. Her stats are terrible, and the only real reason she should be in Upper-Mid at highest is because she is a Dancer that can steal. You rarely ever really need a dancer unless your doing a speed run, and at this point it's a pain to have her try to keep up with the group; Her pathetic HP growth, Strength Growth, and Defense Growth also mean that she won't be stealing many weapons like your other Thieves can.

[Swordsalmon]

Robert in lower-mid? Wth? He is by far the best Archer in the game, hands down. He takes a little bit to take off, but so do half the units that have just been debated(Read:Mareeta). His only major flaw is that his weapon level takes a longgg time to grow; Other then that, being mounted, having AMAZING growths, and being the best unit to take advantage of the Brave Bow Selphina will probably never use on the bench is more then enough reason for Upper-Mid to High.

Why is Brighton high? He is trash past Chapter 7. He has one of the worst weapon types to use when mounted, terrible, TERRIBLE growths, and a lack of real base stats. Sure, he has Elite, but so does Othin, and why you wouldn't use him over Brighton is beyond me~

Lara should be slightly lower. Yes, she can promote like three times, but the odds of you actually succeeding in doing this are slim, and it wastes Knight Proofs. Her stats are terrible, and the only real reason she should be in Upper-Mid at highest is because she is a Dancer that can steal. You rarely ever really need a dancer unless your doing a speed run, and at this point it's a pain to have her try to keep up with the group; Her pathetic HP growth, Strength Growth, and Defense Growth also mean that she won't be stealing many weapons like your other Thieves can.

He's underleveled, locked to Bows, and has bad bases. No skills or Proficient weapons. Being the best Bow user really isn't such a big advantage, since Bows suck in FE5.

Brighton is the best character during the Manster chapters and has great offense due to Wrath. Also, Axe Knight is the third best class in the game.

She auto-promotes into Dancer by recruiting Pahn with her. Also, Lara has Theif utility for most the game, including the Manster chapters.

[Don Draper]

I'll make the changes you said Mekkah. And yes, I'm ignoring "other route is better", because that's kind of subjective. The other route has a Sun Hit manual (best skill in the game if you have high skill), and Sleuf (Auto A rank in staves)

I'm going to watch the Hicks vs. Kein debate because they actually look pretty similar at this point.

-Top-

Safy

Fin

Othin

Shiva

Asvel

Halvan

Fergus

Rifis

Pahn

Lara

High

Nanna

Brighton

Tina

Linoan

Dean

Carrion

Olwen

Mareeta

Homer

Sara

Upper Mid

Sleuf

Machua

Hicks

Karin

Leaf

Sety

Galzus

Eryios

Salem

Trewd

Lower Mid

Dalshien

Xavier

Kein

Alva

Robert

Delmud

Glade

Amalda

Fred

Low

Cyas

Dagda

Ralph

Conomore

Eda

Eyvel

Misha

Miranda

Tanya

Bottom

Marty

Selphina

Ronan

Shanam

Cyas, Leaf, and Hicks are still on the IDK list.

Are you going to update your first post with this list Mekkah, or do you want to make them seperate? This list is pretty much an ordered version of your list with a handful of different movement places.

[TheEnd]

Also, Axe Knight is the third best class in the game.

Wait, what?

Care to expound on that?

[dondon151]

Wait I though Sleuf's route is always considered better than Miranda's route? Or is that for ranked runs only?

[Mekkah]

I'm not even sure which is better anymore. I'd say Sleuf route is better for low turn counts, due to Sleuf's extra staff utility, and it being two seize chapters rather than one escape and one seize...and you can complete 11x in two turns if you want, since you can just get Eyrios rather than Olwen. And you get Sunlight Hit, I guess...and 2 extra Warps if my memory serves.

But Miranda route has advantages for the "normal players" (i.e. don't care about rank, but play efficiently nonetheless), such as the extra Pugi, no stupid Cyas encounter, no need to waste a Sleep Staff on Misha, more time to work on Sarah...

I updated the OP btw. I'll consider both routes at least equal for now.

Axe Knight is hardly in my top. If I had to rank promoted classes regardless of stats, I'd put Dark Mage, Sage, High Priest, Paladin (F), Swordmaster, Fliers, Thief Fighter and Dancer above it. And Forrest Knights too, due to them only needing to raise one weapon level. It's pretty much as "good" as Paladin (M) and Lance Knight.

Edited November 30, 2008 by Mekkah

[Swordsalmon]

Wait, what?

Care to expound on that?

I meant physical combat-wise. Mercenary is probably the best, followed by Swordmaster and then Great Knight.

Edited November 30, 2008 by Swordsalmon

[TheEnd]

I meant physical combat-wise. Mercenary is probably the best, followed by Swordmaster and then Great Knight.

No reasons? Because I don't see why they'd trump even Paladins or Duke Knights.

Axe Knight is hardly in my top. If I had to rank promoted classes regardless of stats, I'd put Dark Mage, Sage, High Priest, Paladin (F), Swordmaster, Fliers, Thief Fighter and Dancer above it. And Forrest Knights too, due to them only needing to raise one weapon level. It's pretty much as "good" as Paladin (M) and Lance Knight.

Due to this game's scale (no individual class caps, max stats 20, final destination), class bases end up not being as important as in other games, I believe. Especially if you compare it to Seisen, but... well, Seisen's base/cap system is downright bizarre anyway.

[Icon of Sin]

No reasons? Because I don't see why they'd trump even Paladins or Duke Knights.

Well, axes do more damage than lances, so that's something against Duke Knights. Accuracy is a bit low but you have Nanna (and later, Delmud) nearby plus leadership stars. I recall a good number of enemies using lances too, from Soldiers to Armors to Dragon Knights, even if the triangle boosts are minimal. Axes are also quite a bit cheaper to buy if you need to.

I'd still use either Paladin types, Forrest Knights or Mage Knights over them.

Edited December 1, 2008 by Captain Falcon

[MageInTraining]

He's underleveled

Hi! So are half the characters that you've brought up, such as Mareeta, and half the people higher then him on the list(Read plz: Tina, Linoan, Carrion...).

locked to Bows

Don't see a problem with this..? Okay, so he can get hit and not recoil. But why would you have him in range of this?

and has bad bases.

65%  45%  10%  50%  60%  25%  70%  20%  1%

Once again, so do half the units brought up already. Yet, you have no problem putting them high.

No skills or Proficient weapons.

Granted.

Being the best Bow user really isn't such a big advantage, since Bows suck in FE5.

I beg to differ. Read down..

Brighton is the best character during the Manster chapters and has great offense due to Wrath.

Exactly. He's trash following those chapters, and considering you get Othin back in Chapter 7...

Also, Axe Knight is the third best class in the game.

Actually, Axes are crap in FE5. Yet you said that Bows where the worst..I could compare the statistics, if you'd like. Having a Horse is a pretty nifty tool, but you already have better units such as Fergus (Who I still feel is a little loose, considering his growths can lead to RNG Rape) or Nanna... What exactly is the list of best classes in the game, since this discussion has been brought up?

She auto-promotes into Dancer by recruiting Pahn with her.

Aware of this. Was pointing to wasting a Knight Proof from Thief->Rogue, then Rogue->Dancer(Which is auto), then Dancer promoting. Two Knight Proofs to fully take maximum potential from Lara.

Also, Lara has Theif utility for most the game, including the Manster chapters.

Granted, but Lifis and Parn will shine more past the Manster chapters, since Lara will probably be dancing for people. Also, her crap build and low stability will lead to her death moreso then Lifis.

Last time I used Robert, he couldn't use the Brave Bow until I spammed bows with him whenever Icould so that he could at least do it in the final. The best unit to use the Brave Bow with is probably Xavier.

That's what I said. His bow level is his biggest flaw. Yet, it shouldn't take that long to grow..

Lara's Str doesn't matter if she's not fighting. Sure, she's extremely fragile, but her utility is enormous.

Actually, yes it does. It means that she can't defend herself against even the most basic enemy units. Why would I bother with her when I have Lifis, who actually has a decent Build base and can defend himself well?

I believe Lara should dance, nothing more. That IS her utility, after all.

[ZephyrD]

Hi! So are half the characters that you've brought up, such as Mareeta, and half the people higher then him on the list(Read plz: Tina, Linoan, Carrion...).

Carrion and Mareeta get way more enemy phase action than Robert, since he gets like none. The other two have staves, which is quite good exp as well. Also they don't need to rely on combat. They also have h4x utility while Robert's an lolbowuser.

Don't see a problem with this..? Okay, so he can get hit and not recoil. But why would you have him in range of this?

No enemy phase action = less exp = not leveling as quickly = lower level = lower weapon rank = worse.

Edited December 1, 2008 by ZephyrShakuraus

[Swordsalmon]

Hi! So are half the characters that you've brought up, such as Mareeta, and half the people higher then him on the list(Read plz: Tina, Linoan, Carrion...).

Don't see a problem with this..? Okay, so he can get hit and not recoil. But why would you have him in range of this?

65%  45%  10%  50%  60%  25%  70%  20%  1%

Once again, so do half the units brought up already. Yet, you have no problem putting them high.

Granted.

I beg to differ. Read down..

Exactly. He's trash following those chapters, and considering you get Othin back in Chapter 7...

Actually, Axes are crap in FE5. Yet you said that Bows where the worst..I could compare the statistics, if you'd like. Having a Horse is a pretty nifty tool, but you already have better units such as Fergus (Who I still feel is a little loose, considering his growths can lead to RNG Rape) or Nanna... What exactly is the list of best classes in the game, since this discussion has been brought up?

Aware of this. Was pointing to wasting a Knight Proof from Thief->Rogue, then Rogue->Dancer(Which is auto), then Dancer promoting. Two Knight Proofs to fully take maximum potential from Lara.

Granted, but Lifis and Parn will shine more past the Manster chapters, since Lara will probably be dancing for people. Also, her crap build and low stability will lead to her death moreso then Lifis.

That's what I said. His bow level is his biggest flaw. Yet, it shouldn't take that long to grow..

Actually, yes it does. It means that she can't defend herself against even the most basic enemy units. Why would I bother with her when I have Lifis, who actually has a decent Build base and can defend himself well?

I believe Lara should dance, nothing more. That IS her utility, after all.

Carrion joins earlier in two chapters with Bandits and he has a much better class, along with the Elite Sword. Mareeta is similar, except joining later but with Lunar Sword and a Proficient weapon. Linoan and Tina both have excellent Staff utility.

It's a huge problem. Roberto is going to be a primary target, nor can he attack half the time. He gains levels less than most characters.

Nice growths, but averages please.

Axes are the cheapest, have the highest Might, and WTA against most enemies. Besides, there's the Hero Axe for DAing all the time. Bows are more expensive, and can never attack directly, while some Axes can attack indirectly. Besides, attacking directly>attacking only indirectly.

Brighton has Wrath for good offense and a Machuya support. He's not great by late mid-game, but one of the best until then.

So what if you have multiple mounted characters? Having more Movement is always a good advantage, regardless of character.

There's no reason to promote Lara into Thief Fighter. She retains Thief utility by promoting into Thief<Dancer. No Knight's Proof wasted. Her best potential is dancing and stealing items, since she has too little Build to steal weapons.

Only two Thieves. Having multiple Thieves is good, especially when she can do Dancing as a primary while stealing items.

Roberto starts with an E rank in Bows. He has to attack 50 times just to get a D in Bows.

[MageInTraining]

Carrion and Mareeta get way more enemy phase action than Robert, since he gets like none. The other two have staves, which is quite good exp as well. Also they don't need to rely on combat. They also have h4x utility while Robert's an lolbowuser.

Staff experience sucks. I don't know where you've been living, but I think attacking and actually killing something with a Bow is more efficient in leveling them standing on the sidelines healing once a turn for a mere 15 experience. At Carrion, more of a chance to die. Robert should not be in the line of fire when you are going to an enemy phase.

No enemy phase action = less exp = not leveling as quickly = lower level = lower weapon rank = worse.

He can sure as hell level faster then your Healers, since he can kill stuff. The weapon rank arguement has been brought up; it is his flaw, yes. However, if you're actually letting him attack things, you shouldn't be having a problem.. He virtually only has to go through one Iron Bow to D.

Carrion joins earlier in two chapters with Bandits and he has a much better class, along with the Elite Sword. Mareeta is similar, except joining later but with Lunar Sword and a Proficient weapon. Linoan and Tina both have excellent Staff utility.

There are regular Soldiers to kill in the chapter where Robert joins, and even better, his favorite, Wyverns. Elite sword isn't bound to Carrion, I can easily toss it aside to someone else; It's not professional, so it's different. Tina and Linoan may have excellent staff useage, both with Prf weapons, but Tina comes very underleveled when you already have other healers ahead of the game(Nanna, Safy, etc.)

It's a huge problem. Roberto is going to be a primary target, nor can he attack half the time. He gains levels less than most characters.

Why is he in the line of fire.

Nice growths, but averages please.

20* HP 47.7 Str  19.9 Mag  4.8 Skl  20.0 Spd  20.0 Def 15.4 Luk  20.0 Bld 15.6 Mov 9.4

Axes are the cheapest, have the highest Might, and WTA against most enemies. Besides, there's the Hero Axe for DAing all the time. Bows are more expensive, and can never attack directly, while some Axes can attack indirectly. Besides, attacking directly>attacking only indirectly.

Cheapest, yes, however you should have funds avalible from selling stolen items/stolen weapons that you don't need. More might? An Iron Axe has a mere two might over an Iron Bow. WTA? 5%, lol. Oh BTW, there was something brought up called the "Hero Bow" that can double attack too. It even has equal might to that of the Hero Axe, and 25% more accuracy! Even better, it has 20 more critical then the Heroes Axe. :3

The axes you state that can hit indirect have terrible hit, minus the Pugi, which is Othin exclusive.

Brighton has Wrath for good offense and a Machuya support. He's not great by late mid-game, but one of the best until then.

So I lack the understanding: If he is only good for a certain period of time and no longer, why is he so high? BTW, Brighton, as I said, is only good until Chapter 7. After that, Othin easily surpasses him.

So what if you have multiple mounted characters? Having more Movement is always a good advantage, regardless of character.

Granted, but if the unit is Garbage, why would you use them?

There's no reason to promote Lara into Thief Fighter. She retains Thief utility by promoting into Thief<Dancer. No Knight's Proof wasted. Her best potential is dancing and stealing items, since she has too little Build to steal weapons.

Okay, once again. She shouldn't be so high on the chart if her only utility is dancing. Sure, she can steal, but the best she'll be stealing after a certain period of time will be enemy recovery items and maybe the odd item like a Manual. Even in this case, she is in the line of fire, in which she can be easily killed, as you mentioned earlier about how she is so fragile. Meanwhile, while Lifis and Parn can defend themselves well, they can actually steal enemy weapons.

Only two Thieves. Having multiple Thieves is good, especially when she can do Dancing as a primary while stealing items.

Exactly. So since she is a crappy Thief, her utility is dancing. Since that is her only card, she shouldn't be so high, because dancing can only get you so far.

Roberto starts with an E rank in Bows. He has to attack 50 times just to get a D in Bows.

Lara starts with an E in swords flat, yet you seem to be so fond of her. ;)