FE5 Tier List

[TheEnd]

As much as I like Robert and use him as my bow user in my savestate-abused runs, it's a fact that his bow level is an annoying issue; it takes so much time until he can at least use killer bows...

Lara starts with an E in swords flat, yet you seem to be so fond of her.

To be fair, those who like Lara in this thread never consider sending her to the front lines, with her usually non-existent build/strength/defense. Sure, I wouldn't rank her that up either, but... well.

[Don Draper]

Staff experience sucks. I don't know where you've been living, but I think attacking and actually killing something with a Bow is more efficient in leveling them standing on the sidelines healing once a turn for a mere 15 experience. At Carrion, more of a chance to die. Robert should not be in the line of fire when you are going to an enemy phase.

I'm not sure where YOU'VE been living, but healers can warp units, which can lead to chapters being won in one turn. When you have to deal with chapters like 22, this is a Godsend. Its also helpful for rank, if you took too long on another chapter. Staff users can also silence beserk staff users, sleep ballista, they're really, really useful. And Robert not being in the line of fire means he'll almost never gain experience.

He can sure as hell level faster then your Healers, since he can kill stuff. The weapon rank arguement has been brought up; it is his flaw, yes. However, if you're actually letting him attack things, you shouldn't be having a problem.. He virtually only has to go through one Iron Bow to D.

You're going by experience gained by a heal staff. Staves like M-UP gives 30, Rescue gives 40, Warp gives 50, they gain experience very fast. Much more then somebody who's only getting minimal exp on player phase.

There are regular Soldiers to kill in the chapter where Robert joins, and even better, his favorite, Wyverns. Elite sword isn't bound to Carrion, I can easily toss it aside to someone else; It's not professional, so it's different. Tina and Linoan may have excellent staff useage, both with Prf weapons, but Tina comes very underleveled when you already have other healers ahead of the game(Nanna, Safy, etc.)

Tina has the Thief staff, which can steal Warp staves, Status staves, and Master Weapons. Very useful, as the staves will likely be used up by the time you get to the user, and Master weapon wielders are hard to capture. And sure he can kill a wyvern, until the wyvern comes and kills him with a critical.

20* HP 47.7 Str  19.9 Mag  4.8 Skl  20.0 Spd  20.0 Def 15.4 Luk  20.0 Bld 15.6 Mov 9.4

LOL 20/20 averages, nobody not named Galzus or Sety is making it that high. Try 20/10

Cheapest, yes, however you should have funds avalible from selling stolen items/stolen weapons that you don't need. More might? An Iron Axe has a mere two might over an Iron Bow. WTA? 5%, lol. Oh BTW, there was something brought up called the "Hero Bow" that can double attack too. It even has equal might to that of the Hero Axe, and 25% more accuracy! Even better, it has 20 more critical then the Heroes Axe. :3

Funds available? Are we playing the same game? Money is EXTREMELY hard to come by in the game: You start with 0, you don't get any from villages, and most money you want saved up for Knight Proofs. And you act like 2 Mt is a mere difference, it can make a difference between killing and not killing. And to use YOUR logic "I can easily toss the Hero Bow to somebody else". And you can only use the Heroes Bow on players phase, so phail.

The axes you state that can hit indirect have terrible hit, minus the Pugi, which is Othin exclusive.

Like Hit matters on anyone not on terrain like a throne.

So I lack the understanding: If he is only good for a certain period of time and no longer, why is he so high? BTW, Brighton, as I said, is only good until Chapter 7. After that, Othin easily surpasses him.

Because endgame isn't the entire game. And Brighton isn't only good until Chapter 7, just that he slows down. And lol at comparing him to the third best unit in the game, I could say that Olthin surpasses Asvel, does that make Asvel bad?

Okay, once again. She shouldn't be so high on the chart if her only utility is dancing. Sure, she can steal, but the best she'll be stealing after a certain period of time will be enemy recovery items and maybe the odd item like a Manual. Even in this case, she is in the line of fire, in which she can be easily killed, as you mentioned earlier about how she is so fragile. Meanwhile, while Lifis and Parn can defend themselves well, they can actually steal enemy weapons.

I already posted a quote as to why Lara is useful, look back a bit

Exactly. So since she is a crappy Thief, her utility is dancing. Since that is her only card, she shouldn't be so high, because dancing can only get you so far.

Again, quote. Second page. Read

Lara starts with an E in swords flat, yet you seem to be so fond of her. ;)

Because she should be a DANCER

Oh, and Alva vs. Robert (They're pretty close in the tier list).

Alva (Base Level): 24 HP, 6 Str, 5 Skl, 9 Spd, 5 Def, 4 Lck

Robert (Base Level): 23 HP, 5 Str, 4 Skl, 8 Spd, 4 Def, 6 Lck

Alva (10/0): 30 HP, 9 Str, 9 Skl, 13 Spd, 7 Def, 9 Lck

Roberto (10/0): 29 HP, 9 Str, 9 Skl, 13 Spd, 6 Def, 12 Lck

Alva (20/1): 37 HP, 13 Str, 16 Skl, 19 Spd, 12 Def, 16 Lck

Roberto (20/1): 35 HP, 16 Str, 17 Skl, 20 Spd, 11 Def, 19 Lck

That's at the SAME LEVEL. Alva will get some Elite Sword levels, and can attack on player phase. That means he'll be getting way more experience. And it takes Roberto until 20/1 to surpass him. Alva wins.

Edited December 1, 2008 by IOS

[MageInTraining]

I'm not sure where YOU'VE been living, but healers can warp units, which can lead to chapters being won in one turn. When you have to deal with chapters like 22, this is a Godsend. Its also helpful for rank, if you took too long on another chapter. Staff users can also silence beserk staff users, sleep ballista, they're really, really useful. And Robert not being in the line of fire means he'll almost never gain experience.

Why should I waste my time with Tina and the like when I will already have a capable unit(Safy) who can use the Warp Staff? Not only accounting this, but Tina must obtain an A rank. Yes. AN A RANK. In which she starts with an E according to the data on the main page(I believe it is a D). Have fun!

Oho, not in the line of fire you say?

1. So you would prefer him to be dead.

2. Someone else was complaining how he cannot counter on enemy phase. So we should just leave him out in the open on enemy phase? So he can get a couple of experience points. Lol.

You're going by experience gained by a heal staff. Staves like M-UP gives 30, Rescue gives 40, Warp gives 50, they gain experience very fast. Much more then somebody who's only getting minimal exp on player phase.

Let's see now. M-Ups are quite frequent, granted. Warp? With some of the units that have been brought up? I'd like to see them obtain the A rank to use this staff. Rescue is almost as high, being a B Rank! And no, if Robert is killing people like he should be on Played Phase, he should be leveling up.

Tina has the Thief staff, which can steal Warp staves, Status staves, and Master Weapons. Very useful, as the staves will likely be used up by the time you get to the user, and Master weapon wielders are hard to capture. And sure he can kill a wyvern, until the wyvern comes and kills him with a critical.

Limited uses, lawl. I would rather conserve that staff for something more important then Status Staves, Warp Staves, and Master weapons- Such as stealing someone like Reinhardts weapons. If Tina was ever used, when she is easily surpassed by most healers..

Wyvern criticals him? Dismount feature FTW.

LOL 20/20 averages, nobody not named Galzus or Sety is making it that high. Try 20/10

LOL what

1.

10*  41.2  18.7  3.8  19.4  20.0  13.0  20.0  13.6  9.3

The only major difference is 7 points of HP, and the defense. Even 20/10, there isn't that big a different ;)

2. I can easily cap more then Sety and Galzus in FE5. Where are you drawing the idea that nobody can make 20/20 in a 30 Chapter game?

Funds available? Are we playing the same game? Money is EXTREMELY hard to come by in the game: You start with 0, you don't get any from villages, and most money you want saved up for Knight Proofs. And you act like 2 Mt is a mere difference, it can make a difference between killing and not killing. And to use YOUR logic "I can easily toss the Hero Bow to somebody else". And you can only use the Heroes Bow on players phase, so phail.

No it is not. You capture enemies. You steal their items. You sell them.

Find someone else worth the Hero Bow and we can debate that. Also, yes, you can only use the Bow on your phase. This is the flaw of an Archer. It's too bad the Archer we're debating is more then capable of defending himself.

Like Hit matters on anyone not on terrain like a throne.

Actually, it does. Considering stuff still misses with 99% hit in this game, and things hit at 1%...

Because endgame isn't the entire game. And Brighton isn't only good until Chapter 7, just that he slows down. And lol at comparing him to the third best unit in the game, I could say that Olthin surpasses Asvel, does that make Asvel bad?

Why are you comparing a Mage to an Axe Knight? I was comparing Brighton to Othin. Comparing those two is stupid.

Because she should be a DANCER

Thank you for telling me something I already know. Yet, as I said, Lara is only a Dancer. She's a shitty Thief, so why that is even brought up is beyond me.

Oh, and Alva vs. Robert (They're pretty close in the tier list).

Alva (Base Level): 24 HP, 6 Str, 5 Skl, 9 Spd, 5 Def, 4 Lck

Robert (Base Level): 23 HP, 5 Str, 4 Skl, 8 Spd, 4 Def, 6 Lck

Alva (10/0): 30 HP, 9 Str, 9 Skl, 13 Spd, 7 Def, 9 Lck

Roberto (10/0): 29 HP, 9 Str, 9 Skl, 13 Spd, 6 Def, 12 Lck

Alva (20/1): 37 HP, 13 Str, 16 Skl, 19 Spd, 12 Def, 16 Lck

Roberto (20/1): 35 HP, 16 Str, 17 Skl, 20 Spd, 11 Def, 19 Lck

That's at the SAME LEVEL. Alva will get some Elite Sword levels, and can attack on player phase. That means he'll be getting way more experience. And it takes Roberto until 20/1 to surpass him. Alva wins.

By your pace, and logic, since units are incapable of making 20/20 in this game; They would be at the same pace no matter what, so this is null.

[Swordsalmon]

Staff experience sucks. I don't know where you've been living, but I think attacking and actually killing something with a Bow is more efficient in leveling them standing on the sidelines healing once a turn for a mere 15 experience. At Carrion, more of a chance to die. Robert should not be in the line of fire when you are going to an enemy phase.

Staff utility is incredibly useful. Lopt Bishops with status staves and Rewarp are regular enemies by Chapter 14x. They can Restore berserked allies. Using a Staff user allows to Warp and Rescue characters, Sleep Misha or a boss to get better weapons, or simply heal. Even the best characters have troubles surviving. Also, Tina has the Thief staff. Using her is the easiest and fastest way to recruit Xavier, as she can steal the Armor Knights' weapons. Roberto is attacking one time for most phases, so he's gaining variable EXP based on how effective the enemies are. As for the first several chapters you have Roberto, the most common enemies are Armor Knights, which Roberto barely damages with Iron Bow. Carrion has two chapters of Bandits and a few Hunters, the former which suck. Also, he's gaining great levels by Chapter 10 from the Elite Sword.

He can sure as hell level faster then your Healers, since he can kill stuff. The weapon rank arguement has been brought up; it is his flaw, yes. However, if you're actually letting him attack things, you shouldn't be having a problem.. He virtually only has to go through one Iron Bow to D.

Robeto's base Attack is 12. Chapter 10-16 are primarily Armor Knights with 12+ Defense. As Roberto is attacking once a turn, he's gaining a D in Bows after 50 turns.

There are regular Soldiers to kill in the chapter where Robert joins, and even better, his favorite, Wyverns. Elite sword isn't bound to Carrion, I can easily toss it aside to someone else; It's not professional, so it's different. Tina and Linoan may have excellent staff useage, both with Prf weapons, but Tina comes very underleveled when you already have other healers ahead of the game(Nanna, Safy, etc.)

The loldiers start at the end of the map, so Roberto can't just run in and fight. Only two Dragon Knights typically move to Selphina's positions. All of them carry Killer Lances, with around 22 Attack for all each. Roberto is destroyed by the Dragon Knights.

Carrion can still use the Elite Sword, so he can gain levels on it.

Healers tend to be Fatigued early. Tina has 25% chance of moving again, so she'll be healing more often. Having multiple Staff users>not having multiple Staff users. Just because others are better doesn't make Tina bad.

Why is he in the line of fire.

If you want Roberto to attack, he has to get close to enemies. Especially in a ranked run, where you have to charge at all times just to win.

20* HP 47.7 Str  19.9 Mag  4.8 Skl  20.0 Spd  20.0 Def 15.4 Luk  20.0 Bld 15.6 Mov 9.4

Except no-one will be at level 20/20 without enormous babying or Arena abuse. Galzus and Sety excluded, obviously.

Cheapest, yes, however you should have funds avalible from selling stolen items/stolen weapons that you don't need. More might? An Iron Axe has a mere two might over an Iron Bow. WTA? 5%, lol. Oh BTW, there was something brought up called the "Hero Bow" that can double attack too. It even has equal might to that of the Hero Axe, and 25% more accuracy! Even better, it has 20 more critical then the Heroes Axe. :3

The axes you state that can hit indirect have terrible hit, minus the Pugi, which is Othin exclusive.

You start with no funds at the start, and most need to be saved for Knight Proofs and Silvers. And broken weapons typically don't sell for much. :/ Two more Might is a big advantage, and enemies have low Avoid to begin with.

To get the Hero Bow, you have to deploy an awful character. Roberto can't use it until 150 attacks anyways. The Hero Axe is available the entire game and can capture enemies.

So I lack the understanding: If he is only good for a certain period of time and no longer, why is he so high? BTW, Brighton, as I said, is only good until Chapter 7. After that, Othin easily surpasses him.

Mareeta surpasses Shiva, surely he must be a terrible character! Brighton isn't an excellent character after Chapter 7, but he still remains a good one due to high weapon levels, Wrath, and a level lead. Brighton doesn't become bad until after promotion, but is still pretty good until then.

Granted, but if the unit is Garbage, why would you use them?

Because Movement is an advantage that must be taken into account when determining a character's worth.

Okay, once again. She shouldn't be so high on the chart if her only utility is dancing. Sure, she can steal, but the best she'll be stealing after a certain period of time will be enemy recovery items and maybe the odd item like a Manual. Even in this case, she is in the line of fire, in which she can be easily killed, as you mentioned earlier about how she is so fragile. Meanwhile, while Lifis and Parn can defend themselves well, they can actually steal enemy weapons.

Lara is stealing Vulneraries during Manster, rescuing the civilians and children in Chapters 4-4x, and can start Dancing by Chapter 12x. Rifis and Pahn can steal weapons, but that takes a turn and thus won't be stealing items, so Lara still has use. Dancer utility is extremely useful, which at that least moves Lara as high as she is.

Exactly. So since she is a crappy Thief, her utility is dancing. Since that is her only card, she shouldn't be so high, because dancing can only get you so far.

With Lara, Othin is killing two enemies on the Player's Phase instead of one. Massive benefit right there.

Lara starts with an E in swords flat, yet you seem to be so fond of her. ;)

She also joins five chapters earlier.

EDIT:

Why should I waste my time with Tina and the like when I will already have a capable unit(Safy) who can use the Warp Staff? Not only accounting this, but Tina must obtain an A rank. Yes. AN A RANK. In which she starts with an E according to the data on the main page(I believe it is a D). Have fun!

Oho, not in the line of fire you say?

1. So you would prefer him to be dead.

2. Someone else was complaining how he cannot counter on enemy phase. So we should just leave him out in the open on enemy phase? So he can get a couple of experience points. Lol.

Because Saphy has lol HP and gets Fatigued? Unless you have over 9000 Stamina Bags, Saphy can't Warp all the time. Also, Staffs gain more WEXP than weapons, so Tina can attain an A rank much faster.

Theoretical situation. Loldier band is 6 spaces away. Roberto moves 5, attacks, and moves back 2. He's still in range of enemies, because he's forced to move near enemies to attack. Just like every fighting character; you can't keep them safe and fighting at all times. Especially in FE5.

Let's see now. M-Ups are quite frequent, granted. Warp? With some of the units that have been brought up? I'd like to see them obtain the A rank to use this staff. Rescue is almost as high, being a B Rank! And no, if Robert is killing people like he should be on Played Phase, he should be leveling up.

Again, Staffs gain much higher WEXP. Saphy and Nanna are already building their Staff EXP early, but there's much damage taken.

So basically you're saying that Roberto has to be shielded to be played effectively. Hurts efficiency the the entire game. Or is Ronan good becuase I'm 'playing him like he should'?

LOL what

1.

10*  41.2  18.7  3.8  19.4  20.0  13.0  20.0  13.6  9.3

The only major difference is 7 points of HP, and the defense. Even 20/10, there isn't that big a different ;)

2. I can easily cap more then Sety and Galzus in FE5. Where are you drawing the idea that nobody can make 20/20 in a 30 Chapter game?

Roberto will be one of the last characters to promote, being severely underleveled and fighting once a turn. He promotes at Chapter 22.

Because Knight Proofs are extremely rare.

No it is not. You capture enemies. You steal their items. You sell them.

Find someone else worth the Hero Bow and we can debate that. Also, yes, you can only use the Bow on your phase. This is the flaw of an Archer. It's too bad the Archer we're debating is more then capable of defending himself.

Why waste a perfectly good Captured item to sell for only half price?

Not with his base 18 HP. XD

Why are you comparing a Mage to an Axe Knight? I was comparing Brighton to Othin. Comparing those two is stupid.

The Mage's purpose in a chapter is to fight, and an Axe Knight's purpose in a chapter is to fight. Besides by your logic Brighton and Othin should not be compared, since Brighton is an Axe Knight, while Othin is an Axe Fighter.

Thank you for telling me something I already know. Yet, as I said, Lara is only a Dancer. She's a shitty Thief, so why that is even brought up is beyond me.

A Thief who is still Stealing items the entire game.

By your pace, and logic, since units are incapable of making 20/20 in this game; They would be at the same pace no matter what, so this is null.

He's actually fairly correct. The first nine Knight Proofs go to the first good characters that ram level 20; Fin, Halvan, Othin, ect. Everyone else has to wait until Chapter 22 to promote, so a level advantage not reaching the first nine means little other than stats.

Edited December 1, 2008 by Swordsalmon

[ZephyrD]

Staff experience sucks. I don't know where you've been living, but I think attacking and actually killing something with a Bow is more efficient in leveling them standing on the sidelines healing once a turn for a mere 15 experience. At Carrion, more of a chance to die. Robert should not be in the line of fire when you are going to an enemy phase.

I don't know where you've been living but bows suck.

15 exp a turn, with the lowest ranked staff, while the average unit gains maybe 10-20 (I'm not sure of the exact amount since there's no calculations listed) from hitting someone. (Obviously varies depending on the level difference too) Robert might get a kill now and then but letting him get too many would be favouritism, and since he's weak at first he's less likely to kill on his own. And since he gets no enemy phase action either, the amount of exp he gains isn't going to be that much greater.

Meanwhile leveling a staff user is valuable in a game like this, which has been mentioned multiple times, while Robert is an lolbowuser.

He can sure as hell level faster then your Healers, since he can kill stuff. The weapon rank arguement has been brought up; it is his flaw, yes. However, if you're actually letting him attack things, you shouldn't be having a problem.. He virtually only has to go through one Iron Bow to D.

Healers can kill, have range, don't eat counter and can get exp even without combat. Not to mention they don't have to compete for kills to actually gain experience.

And yes, it's a huge flaw. He's getting 1, maybe 2 hits per turn, and likely nothing on enemy phase, meaning he's gaining these bow levels slow as fucking hell.

Robert is locked to a bow which is instant-fail and is a subpar combat unit regardless of his status as the best bow user. He'll do nothing but fall behind compared the other combat units due to his little to none enemy phase action, making him inferior to other, more capable, better ranged (1/1-2) units in terms of his stats as well.

There are regular Soldiers to kill in the chapter where Robert joins, and even better, his favorite, Wyverns. Elite sword isn't bound to Carrion, I can easily toss it aside to someone else; It's not professional, so it's different.

Proficient, not professional.

Lara starts with an E in swords flat, yet you seem to be so fond of her.

She would suck at fighting regardless, she's a utility unit, not a fighter in any sense of the term.

[Mekkah]

and being the best unit to take advantage of the Brave Bow Selphina will probably never use on the bench is more then enough reason for Upper-Mid to High.

Last time I used Robert, he couldn't use the Brave Bow until I spammed bows with him whenever Icould so that he could at least do it in the final. The best unit to use the Brave Bow with is probably Xavier.

Lara's Str doesn't matter if she's not fighting. Sure, she's extremely fragile, but her utility is enormous.

[Rodykitty]

What scrolls do imo is making stat leads less important. Asvel is a lot faster than Dalshien, but since Sety scroll is there, that Spd lead matters less. Sure, you can give the Sety scroll to Asvel as well, but then he just caprams Spd three levels earlier or something. It doesn't help him nearly as much as it helps Dalshien, so it improves Dalshien's position relatively to Asvel.

I am not saying that you should give the wrong scrolls to characters that don't need it, I am saying that the scrolls can be used to cover weaknesses of already high tier characters that one will likely be using. That Sety scroll may not go to Asvel, but it may end up going to another character that is worth using.

The point is, I think they (and star shards from FE3) can end up serving to help characters in the higher/top tiers cover their weaknesses rather than have lower tier characters rise up to be just as good, effectively keeping high/top tier characters where they are.

I know little about FE5's characters, but I noticed people discussing how scrolls can make anyone good, so I wanted to discuss how tiers are possible even with stat growth boosting items in the equation.

Edited November 30, 2008 by FE3 Player

[Mekkah]

Nitpicks:

- Tina starts with E, but she gets 10 for every Prf staff use she burns. Using her full Unlock staff already puts her at 40 WEXP, so she only needs 10 heals for D. Then you can make some more use of it in like Ch21x and C22, by repairing the Thief/Unlock staves and using them on enemy staves. I've had her reach B, almost A, last game, but a C endgame in order to use Restore is enough.

- Robert "not being in the line of fire" is not a pro for him. Being an archer means you don't take counters, but it also means you are an enemy magnet that hurts your efficiency everytime he is being attacked. Of course, you can fix this by shielding him...just like you can fix some people's underleveledness and low Def with Elite Sword, you can help Leaf's offense by giving him Wrath or Moonlight, you can give Dashin the Sety scroll 24/7 to fix his Spd...but having to fix a flaw sucks, and that's why he's not higher. In addition, he's underleveled to begin with. He's a bit like a mounted FE9 Rolf.

Why are you comparing a Mage to an Axe Knight? I was comparing Brighton to Othin. Comparing those two is stupid.

I will just copypasta something from my own guide here.

One of the biggest faults people make when debating has to be class-by-class comparisons.

Example: a debate between Rebecca and Harken

Rebecca is a Sniper. The only other Snipers in this game, Louise and Wil, both have inferior stats to Rebecca at pretty much any moment. This makes Rebecca the best Sniper.

Harken is a Hero. There's another Hero in this game, Raven. And when comparing their stats when Harken joins, Raven easily comes out on top due to supports and superior statistics overall. Therefore, you could conclude that Harken is the worst Hero.

Since Rebecca is the best Sniper, and Harken the worst Hero, Rebecca is better. Right?

No, not really. The catch in this faulty, but nonetheless common way of arguing is that your class makes no difference for your purpose. Both of these units are combat units. Their classes provide some attributes to their fighting, such as the fact that Harken can weild swords and axes, while Rebecca has bows, and that Rebecca can use ballistae. However, at the end of the day, they are both units meant to kill enemies. What their class is makes no further difference besides what the statistics show. Since those statistics are available - indeed, a centerpoint of debate - it is useless to bring up class any further. It is about as helpful as comparing Eliwood to all people with red hair and Hector to all people with blue hair, and then see which one is relatively better among the people with the same hair colour.

Another reason why class-by-class makes no sense is because the debate is about Rebecca vs Harken, and not Harken vs other Heroes or Rebecca vs other Snipers. Such comparisons have absolutely nothing to do with the debate at hand.

Besides above arguments, a great way to instantly counter class-by-class arguments (also called a competition argument) is by reminding your opponent which debate you are playing. If other Heroes are indeed better than Harken, and Harken is better than Rebecca (which is what the debate is about), then said other Heroes are also better than Rebecca, and it makes no difference.

[Duff Ostrich]

I'm a little uneasy about Safy being > Fin and Othin. I mean, yeah staves are amazing and such, and she's got the repair staff, but overall that doesn't make up for the combat brokenness of Fin and Othin.

She can repair Pugi and Hero Lance, but they actually use those weapons. They're no good if they're not used.

Eyval and Dagda should NOT occupy the same tier. Dagda's too good for too long. He's not even really bad when you get him back just yet, with his great HP and str. His build is still enough to capture lots of things too. he is still holding his own somewhere into the midgame when you start promoting people.

Eyvel, on the other hand, is gone forever. Being gone forever = bottom tier. When (if) you get her back, she's completely worthless.

Leaf looks kinda high too, but that Light Sword is pretty darn good.

[Don Draper]

No matter how good Fin and Olthin are combat wise, they can not make a chapter easymode by warping somebody to take the throne, and then warping in Leaf.

I agree with Eyval down, and I'm still not sure about Leaf's position :/

[Mekkah]

Eyvel scrapes herself out of Bottom tier by keeping Nanna alive (saving you "20 turns" if you're going for rank). That, and she has hard-coded invincibility for the first three chapters. Plus nobody except maybe Othin can touch the bosses.

Also, not being around is almost a good thing for crap units. Though I'm unsure to define where Dagda's "goodness" ends and his suck begins.

She can repair Pugi and Hero Lance, but they actually use those weapons. They're no good if they're not used.

60 uses is still a lot, especially for Othin, who OHKOs with it 90% of the time. Saphy is part of the few people that make endgame possible (Linoan, Sarah, Sety/lolCyasIguess), and in addition has lots of early and mid utility which these don't have. That's nothing but God tier. Infinite move to another unit is just extremely hax.

[Duff Ostrich]

No matter how good Fin and Olthin are combat wise, they can not make a chapter easymode by warping somebody to take the throne, and then warping in Leaf.

I guess you're probably right. It ultimately depends on the availability of warp staves, but I'm sure she only needs to really chip out a few really difficult chapters to obtain that win.

Ideally, how many chapters will she be auto-winning for the team?

[Don Draper]

As many seize chapters as you want really. Chapter 22 would probably be a must though (Stupid Cyas and his absurd amount of leadership stars).

[Mekkah]

Molotov had her using Warp to full extent in 8x, 10, 11, 11x, 12, 12x, 16A, 17A, a bit in 18, she's there in 19 but Linoan/Sarah coulda done it prolly, then in the rest she's one of like four people who are crucial.

[Vykan12]

Hmm pretty similar to the gfaqs list, which most recently went as follows:

Top:

Saphy

Fin

Othin

Shiva

Halvan

Nanna

Asvel

Rifis

Lara

High:

Felgus

Brighton

Sara

Tina

Carrion

Dean

Homer

Linonan

Pahn

Sleuf

Upper-Mid:

Mareeta

Sety

Galzus

Cyas

Xavier

Karin

Salem

Machua

Lower-Mid:

Eyrios

Olwen

Kein

Alva

Robert

Hicks

Dalshien

Trewd

Dagda

Delmud

Amalda

Low:

Leaf

Eda

Glade

Fred

Ralph

Misha

Miranda

Bottom:

Marty

Selphina

Tanya

Eyvel

Conomore

Ronan

Shanam

The main differences I can see is Pahn up a tier (which I agree with), Linoan well above Homer (don't agree), Olwen seems a bit high (>Mareeta? How?), Hicks is a lot higher (don't really agree with), and some differences in bottom tier (Shanam discount >>> anything Ronan does for instance). I'll go into more detail another day, looking between two lists right now is confusing and I should really be preparing for something school related at the moment :P

Edited December 15, 2008 by Vykan12

[Mekkah]

I would say Fergus is very arguable against many of those dudes in Top, and much better overall than Brighton.

Linoan well above Homer (don't agree)

staves + Resire + no Knight Proof go a long way, I'd say

Olwen seems a bit high (>Mareeta? How?)

iono, but this list has her in _lower mid_, below people whose only contributions are for very few maps, pretty much indicating she is a below average unit. All that's bad about Olwen is her stats, and those are quite fixable, and in trade she has about anything that makes you a unique snowflake in FE5 (movement star, mount, no Knight Proof, hax prf weapon).

Hicks is a lot higher (don't really agree with)

don't see anything good about Hicks, no.

[Vykan12]

I would say Fergus is very arguable against many of those dudes in Top, and much better overall than Brighton.

Actually I agree with you there, having a critical coefficient of 5 is almost as good as having wrath + he's got nice availability, a good swords rank, great bases + growths and of course a horse. IIRC I think he was the only one who could use the armorslayer, brave sword, rapier and maybe a couple other goodies in the earlygame chapters, so there's a possibility of him standing out vs others in that time period.

staves + Resire + no Knight Proof go a long way, I'd say

Homer is better statistically + he can also use Resire, just later, but most of all is that sexy elite skill allowing him to have a constantly increasing level lead on Linoan. Also, although Linoan doesn't need a Knight's proof, she's also forced to promote late.

iono, but this list has her in _lower mid_, below people whose only contributions are for very few maps, pretty much indicating she is a below average unit. All that's bad about Olwen is her stats, and those are quite fixable, and in trade she has about anything that makes you a unique snowflake in FE5 (movement star, mount, no Knight Proof, hax prf weapon).

I wouldn't say she's below average, but even if you give her ambush, her durability's going to stink. Daim thunder is so heavy that if she misses a single hit, she's probably toast, then she has to worry about ballistae and long range tomes picking her apart. I guess she could do ranged hit & runs all day but that would limit her offensive output somewhat.

[Mekkah]

IIRC I think he was the only one who could use the armorslayer, brave sword, rapier and maybe a couple other goodies in the earlygame chapters

He comes with C swords, and needs 20 WEXP to get to B to use all of those. I find the Fire Sword most helpful, since nobody you have has any Mag to speak of, and it makes him very good at warding off those Mages in 4x and 5. Leaf comes with a C as well, and has more time, but also 30 less WEXP.

Homer is better statistically + he can also use Resire, just later, but most of all is that sexy elite skill allowing him to have a constantly increasing level lead on Linoan. Also, although Linoan doesn't need a Knight's proof, she's also forced to promote late.

For most of the game, they're both running around with capped Mag/Skl/Spd/Luk, iirc. Linoan just has less HP, so she'll fatigue more often. For a level lead, bleh, I can't imagine Homer getting any action in his joining chapter unless you manage to clear all ballistae, and he doesn't one-round the Pegs in 14x...Linoan doesn't either unless she's countercritting, but at least she's not dying in two hits thanks to Resire...which Homer can't use until he promotes.

Linoan doesn't get a whole lot out of promoting anyway besides Continue. I suppose Homer does.

I wouldn't say she's below average, but even if you give her ambush, her durability's going to stink. Daim thunder is so heavy that if she misses a single hit, she's probably toast, then she has to worry about ballistae and long range tomes picking her apart. I guess she could do ranged hit & runs all day but that would limit her offensive output somewhat.

Yeah, she's frail as hell. But the tier position she's in suggests that she's a negative, since she's below people like Cyas and Xavier. Unless that list interprets ranks differently than I do.

[Vykan12]

And now that I have time

I think Dean vs Carrion is an interesting match-up. Pplz on gfaqs argue that Carrion is using the elite sword to catch up in levels, and with his fantastic growths he’ll be caught up statistically in a flash with proper scroll usage. Thus, he can easily become one of your best fighters before Dean joins, and from there Dean only really wins in capturing. Also, that depends on Dean getting the dragon lance, which either calls for wasting a warp + rescue staff use you’d otherwise want to save or risking a bunch of units to get that far into the map, so I’d say the dragon lance carries a considerable negative despite its awesomeness. Dean being able to fly gives a mobility lead, but that’s pretty much negated by ballistae, which are pretty plentiful in the later chapters. In fact there’s one chapter where ballistae show up as same turn enemy reinforcements, though I digress :P

I’m also a large advocate for Sara, and I’d want to see her slightly better than bottom of high. Her base stats are as follows:

Sara lv 7: 14 hp, 11 mag, 12 skl, 9 spd, 0 def, 10 luck, 3 bld, 5 mov

She has magic, skill and speed all more or less in double figures, and guess what, she also has an 80% growth in these 3 stats. In fact, she caps every stat but speed (which is only 1 away from the cap) at lv 20, so she could actually outperform promoted units without ever touching a knight’s proof. Moreover, she has elite and staves, so she’s levelling up at a billion miles per second, then just to add more fuel to the fire, she has wrath, making her offence complete overkill. Ok, but what about that horrid durability problem? Fortunately, she has prayer, so even if she were to be 1HKOed, it’s guaranteed to be less than or equal to a 40% chance. Then she’s got a D rank in light magic, so using light until a C and promoting to get a B allows her to use resire, which makes her more or less invincible so long as she isn’t 1HKOed. Also, seeing as how she comes reasonably late, underlevelled and with elite (not to mention staves but I think I’m being redundant here), she’s basically the master of scroll abuse so give her dain and a couple of hp boosting scrolls for some great results. Finally, she can start using the big boy staves reasonably soon since she starts at B, and warp + elite = pretty much a level up every time. A unit who can grow that fast and be that versatile should definitely at least be higher than Linoan and Homer.

Sleuf IMO should be higher, having an auto A rank in staves pretty much makes you the bees knees in this game so I can’t fathom him being anywhere lower than high.

Leaf seems a bit high too, though I’ve argued a few times on the gfaqs boards that he’s quite useful for his outgoing support bonuses in the earlier chapters since he boosts a lot of people’s avo and critical rates a significant amount. He’s nothing special in combat, though, and even with scroll abuse he still has to put up with that incredibly lame promotion time.

Imo Dalshien vs Xavier is interesting. Dalshien gets to be one of your only walls for a very long time, though his offence AFAIK is pretty lame. Xavier does have those incredibly bad recruitment conditions and low availability, but he has an A rank in 2 weapons, the possibility of using 4, and the unbelievable offensive combination of wrath + charge. Then he has that sexy 38 hp, 17 def base and big shield, so Dalshien doesn’t really have anything on him in the durability department, so it’s safe to say Xavier is a much better general than Dalshien while he’s around.

I’ve never actually used Eda and Misha, though I know Eda has some spectacular growths and would outclass Dean statistically if she could ever manage to catch up, whereas Misha at the very least makes good use of magic swords, which I think only Amalda and Nanna can really claim as well. I’d at least put them above Fred for having potential, whereas Fred is just kinda iffy the whole time you have him.

Dagda should be higher since he’s one of your main capturers in the earlygame and duel makes up for his speed problems in the midgame before he ultimately gets dropped. I’d also put Eyvel > Conomore, and Selphina should be > Marty since she can hit & run and 1HKO wyverns which means she’s at least more useful than a tissue bag and won’t worry about her durability in the short span of time you may fathom using her. Finally, I’ll say it again, Shanam letting you buy stuff on discount like killer + silver weapons + knight proofs supercedes whatever some of the epic fail in this game can do, so I can’t ever see him being complete bottom.

[Seph]

I'm still very new to FE debating and I need convincing that Lara belongs in top tier. I think she's high tier, personally. I'll just list all the chapters and explain. I'll bold the ones where she's not too useful.

B route.

4 - Quite useful here, makes you finish the chapter faster.

4x - Nothing much since you only need one thief. She's decent here too though, by outclassed by Lifis.

5 - She can't do much here because of her low build while Lifis can steal some weapons.

6 - Hmm.. good here I guess.

7 - Nothing. She can't do anything here.

8 - Chapter is too easy. Lifis outclasses her.

8x - Hmm.. decent here.

9 - Awful. Wyvern users with Javelins and many enemies..

10 - Awful. Ballistae and low build.

11 - Ballistae are really dangerous but she's useful here.

11x - God awful. She'll just get killed and she can't even move. She could Physic your other units more by helping Saphy but it's not like they will need it much..

12 - She's just not doing anything here. I won't bold this though.

12x - For obvious reasons.

13 - Terrible. Ballistae and over 9000 reinforcements.

14 - Terrible. Surrounded by ballistae and Thracian reinforcements come later.

14x - Not sure here.. she'll get captured a lot if she doesn't have a weapon and she's easy to kill since her stats dropped.

15 - Okay.

16 - Not sure here too.. Rewarp is annoying for her. I won't bold it though.

17 - Terrible. Too many ballistae.

18 - Good.

19 - Nah. She may be good for Rescuing since she makes Saphy or someone else move again, but you need to get lucky with the formation for that! So no.

20 - Depends on how good you are. Are you fast enough to kill the boss before the ballistae reinforcements? I won't bold this.

21 - Useless. A lot of ballistae.

21x - Useless. Long range attackers and warpers.

22 - Useless. Too many Iron Arches. The chapter itself is pretty easy but still.

23 - Ballistae and low move.

24 - Good here.

24x - Rewarps and Warps really hurt her here.

Final - Nice, but if she gets hit by Fenrir she is doomed.

I just can't see how someone so useless in so many chapters can be so high.

either calls for wasting a warp + rescue staff use you’d otherwise want to save or risking a bunch of units to get that far into the map

I had Asvel solo all the enemies there from level 1 promoted.

He went up to level 7 including those Thracian reinforcements.

Edited December 17, 2008 by Julius

[Mekkah]

I didn't have Lara in Top either, but "outclassed by Lifis" is a really lame reason. She's doing something only one other unit can do, and when Parn joins, two. Most others are doing a job to be done by like 2379329823 others. 2nd/3rd best at something > much worst. And once she becomes a dancer, she makes your best unit move twice.

I had Asvel solo all the enemies there from level 1 promoted.

Considering he gets 2HKOed and enemies have pretty good hit on him (lots of enemy leadership), I think you just got lucky.

[Seph]

but "outclassed by Lifis" is a really lame reason. She's doing something only one other unit can do, and when Parn joins, two.

I said it just for Chapters 4x, 5 and 8.

And it's true, in 4x and 8 because Lifis has better fighting ability. He can handle the enemies better than Lara. Note that I didn't even bold that chapter. These two are better because of fighting ability, not because of thieving.

And in 5, she is outclassed because of Lifis's cool build (stealing from Mages). I chose the word outclassed because Lifis will be doing most of the thieving and take out of Lara's usefulness. This one is about thieving but it's because Lifis has higher build - I acknowledge that Lara is somewhat unique, but come on, you have to admit, Lifis is better in this chapter thanks to the mages and higher level.

And then, being less useful because of another unit of the same class in those chapters = being outclassed in those chapters.

once she becomes a dancer, she makes your best unit move twice.

Obviously since she has a different job she's not getting outclassed anymore. In fact she may even stop thieving forever.

Considering he gets 2HKOed and enemies have pretty good hit on him (lots of enemy leadership), I think you just got lucky.

Asvel was in a bush, and he had speed capped.

Edited December 17, 2008 by Julius

[Rei Rei]

Carion should be a little higher. And I don't say that just because of my username, sometimes he's so damn powerful that in one enemy turn he's fatigued. Seriously, the guy crits like a Myrmidon using Iron Swords.

[Seph]

Yeah, I was going to mention that, why does he crit so much? He crits like on every second attack.

[Rei Rei]

Maybe some high luck or something like that.

He also crits a lot on first attack, I was nearly getting mad on him hogging experience(he was at level 18 and at the end of the chapter he was a level 2 Paladin).