What are the best/ worst classes (and class types) in general?

[ciphertul]

55 minutes ago, Armchair General said:

Well, it's 2 points less than maxing out an Sage, although the Sage has an notable lead in magic 

And it's still 8 less the Berserker which is what I would consider the worst class.

[Armchair General]

25 minutes ago, ciphertul said:

And it's still 8 less the Berserker which is what I would consider the worst class.

Yeah, but at least the Berserker has their stats where it counts instead of trying to become an hybrid class. Can't really defend its (lack of) utility, though

[ciphertul]

Just now, Armchair General said:

Yeah, but at least the Berserker has their stats where it counts instead of trying to become an hybrid class. Can't really defend its (lack of) utility, though

I don't agree, a Berserker can't double a Great Knight. 

[BloodRonin]

19 hours ago, Scaramuccia said:

am pretty sure Louis with S lances would be amazing in endgame.

This is accurate. Without posting any spoilers, the S rank Lance is probably the best S rank weapon in the game.

[DaveCozy]

15 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

A good write-up, thank you very much! Do you guys get much use out of Armored or Qi Adept units? I keep forgetting that High Priests are Mystical, so even the units who started as Qi Adepts for me are now Mystical types instead. Other than Seadall, of course.

And this raises a good point, what of the unique classes? I know someone earlier said that Alfred's one wasn't the best for him, but what of the others? I think the Dragon-typing alone makes Divine Dragon an incredible utility Class for Alear despite being sword-locked (arts don't do much for them).

 

For an Armored unit, I only field one usually. A good e.g. is ch15, Dancer in the Ruins; that chapter is a pain in the butt with the reinforcements that creep up from behind. But there's a lot of chokepoints that makes it really easy for a General with some backup to hold them off. It also makes it easy to set up Seadall for a warp from one of the rooms that has a chest to the exit, and let him escape quicker once you destroy the door that reveals the exit. So Armors definitely have use even in efficiency playthrough contexts.

Qi Adepts have a niche with Chain Guards. Ch14 is a fine e.g. of them being useful, the throne room in that map has 4 bosses, 3 which zerg-rush you as soon as you get in one of their ranges. Chain Guard helps safely bait them all here and manage them. Also a good class to use Byleth's Goddess Dance ring with.

And yes, the Dragon class has a solid niche of emblem synergy. It might be better to make Alear a flier in ch11 though (you can still master / second seal in this chapter if you have any), maybe just to make the mid-game go a bit faster with since maps get a bit bigger in size from that point on. You can always reclass back later, once you get more emblem rings that fit the dragon class better.

Alfred's unique class is pretty bad, he actually loses speed being in it compared to most other cavalry classes not named Great Knight, and his bulk in Great Knight is plain better. I'd say either Great Knight or Wyvern Knight seem better for him.

Celine has a decent unique class. Mixed offenses go really well with it. Ignis is not super reliable, but she can attack from range at least so it's not actively putting her in danger to try and proc it. I put mine as a Mage Knight though, because I prefer the movement for breaking axe enemies with Levin Sword.

For Alcryst, I prefer him as a Warrior myself. Long-Bow chain attacks are really good. I'm not a fan of Luna in Tireur, it seems okay considering his high Dex stat and given he shouldn't be EPing either, but if that's the kind of offense you're looking for you can actually get more reliable Crit activations; put him as a Sniper; forge a Killer Bow+5 with Corrin's engraving, and No Distractions from the class skill gives a mighty +80 crit boost, which is already better than the 50ish % Luna activation in Tireur.

Diamant has really low Dex and makes activating Sol unreliable, which isn't good considering it's supposed to help his bulk. Still his Successeur class has really good stat modifiers, so it's maybe worth considering if only for that. But I personally put him as a Wyvern in my playthrough and it was worth it, he was much more mobile with still solid defense. Ike emblem is great on him in this class.

I'm unsure on Fogato and Timerra. I benched Fogato in my playthrough so I'd have to give him a chance first to talk more. I did use Timerra and kept her as a Picket. I didn't really rely on her class skill, but her stats were pretty solid in that class. I considered General as well but didn't like the idea of losing backup chain attacks. Maybe Hero would be ok on her in hindsight? Or Wyvern as well?

A note with Diamant and Timerra too is that putting them in more mobile classes means you give up backup attacks, which is a pretty reliable way of whittling down some very bulky bosses. So that has to be weighed carefully too. Just because they worked for me in Wyvern and Picket doesn't mean that's the right class for your team either.

Ivy and Hortensia should definitely stay in their unique classes though, combination of flying magic offense with staves is limited to them only. Too good to give that up.

Edited February 1, 2023 by DaveCozy

[Fabulously Olivier]

14 hours ago, ciphertul said:

I don't agree, a Berserker can't double a Great Knight. 

I'm pretty sure this perception is based on Panette specifically, who has both a mediocre base speed and a low speed growth. Because I know you used her.

 

Not that she needs speed when her crit rate is "yes" percent.

[ciphertul]

18 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

I'm pretty sure this perception is based on Panette specifically, who has both a mediocre base speed and a low speed growth. Because I know you used her.

 

Not that she needs speed when her crit rate is "yes" percent.

It’s not, as I said it’s theorycrafting Berserker spd cap is 29 and Great Knight is 25. It’s not enough to double.

[DaveCozy]

Side question; Are caps relevant in Engage?

And if so, are they relevant for the Maddening campaign? Or is this moreso relevant for Tower of Trials?

[ciphertul]

1 minute ago, DaveCozy said:

Side question; Are caps relevant in Engage?

And if so, are they relevant for the Maddening campaign? Or is this moreso relevant for Tower of Trials?

Some might be for Maddening like I would be surprised if Panette doesn’t cap her Dex or Res but it would be for the Tower mostly.

[Fabulously Olivier]

4 minutes ago, ciphertul said:

It’s not, as I said it’s theorycrafting Berserker spd cap is 29 and Great Knight is 25. It’s not enough to double.

There's more to the game than caps. I know caps matter to you specifically, but for most of a normal playthrough, that isn't reflective of unit performance.

[BloodRonin]

15 hours ago, DaveCozy said:

And if so, are they relevant for the Maddening campaign?

With fixed level ups for your first maddening run, not really. But on a 2nd with RNG level ups, caps do indeed play a part. You can get lucky and get to that cap really quick. 

[ra2bk]

On 2/2/2023 at 1:34 AM, BloodRonin said:

With fixed level ups for your first maddening run, not really. But on a 2nd with RNG level ups, caps do indeed play a part. You can get lucky and get to that cap really quick. 

My Diamant capped his DEX by Ch 19.

[FashionEmblem]

After finishing chapter 15 maddening, a second time since I restarted to redo some early game stuff after getting more familiar with the systems, good classes are:

• Warrior - Only backup class with access to 3 range through the Long Bow is huge. In general you are setting up a large radius for chain attacks and particularly useful when you can outrange a boss to start the chain attack process.
• Hero - class skill to do two chain attacks is super useful and can use throwing axes and spears for range.
• Thief - combined with Corrin emblem you can make the perfect mobile dodge tank.
• Lindwurm - Flying mage is good.
• Successor - Very high weapon ranks are nice. Hard to tell how good the class is vs. how good Diamant is, but Sol makes Diamant quite a bit tanky and Diamant gaining Hand Axes for chain attacks is worth him being a priority for early promotion.
• Wolf Knight - High speed, high mobility dagger user is good. Once again, a bit hard to tell how good class is vs. Merrin, but enemy wolf knights are easily some of the scariest I've dealt with so far. High-mobility + daggers pairs very well with Lucina emblem for poison-stacking chain attacks and chain attacks within movement range instead of attack range.
• Armored Knight - Doesn't have a movement penalty in base tier. Louis is pretty much physically indestructible in the early game. Immunity to break is awesome.
• Sleipnir Rider - I insta-benched this character, but in principle this class is awesome. High staff rank (though missing out on A tomes is a bummer), chance to conserve staff charges, and Hortensia's inherent range on healing.
• Sage - Nothing special, but mystical class is useful to ignore enemy terrain and staves are good. Shout out to Pandreo whom gets A staves as a Sage.
• Dancer - Dancing is good. Also has access to chain guard, which can be useful for approaching bosses which you often have to bait out with an enemy phase.

The mid/alright classes:

• Divine Dragon - The synergies to engage more frequently are nice, and some of the bonuses on emblems are fantastic. Combat-wise the class is pretty mid: lack of access to 2 range aside from Levin Sword off a near non-existent magic stat and arts are also mediocre due to the lack of magic. If Alear had better magic to actually get something out of their brave fists, maybe the class could rise to good.
• Great Knight - The +10 or so defense boost from being in an armored class is huge in terms of bulk. Though, enemy quality has gone up a lot and I'm not convinced my great knights can maintain their bulk when they are always getting doubled.
• Griffin Knight - Huge boon to early promote Chloé, gain 1 move, and gain staff access, but she's falling off and a lot of that is her class with no build and modest strength. Now that I have other staff users online it may be time to reclass Chloé into a wyvern.
• Tireur d’élite - Best archery class besides Warrior. Luna > Sniper's crit +10. Bow Knight and Cupido have weird synergies in their skills, a mount you don't want to move and an enemy-phase skill for an sword+bow class, respectively.
• Vidame - The swords do little for Céline, but the class is a surprisingly speedy mage and Ignis for some extra damage occasionally doesn't hurt.
• Sniper - Crit +10 when attacking out of range synergizes well, but a warrior participating in chain attacks is a better use of your archers.

And, the bad:

• Cupido - Initially thought the class was great, but turns out that's just Fogado with Lucina's emblem. I reclassed him into warrior and get pretty much the same results, freeing up Lucina to go on my wolf knight, now that I have learned that chain attacks stack dagger poison.
• High Priest - I'm not sure this class is bad, but I just tried reclassing Céline from Vidame into one to improve her staff rank and she takes a big speed penalty. Bad enough that she was no longer able to double Generals in Lucina's paralogues—strong bad unit feel when a mage can't double an armor.
• General - After promotion they are penalized in movement since every other class gains movement on promotion. Still immune to break, but similar to Great Knight I feel that bulk waning as enemy attack inflates and these characters always get doubled.
• Berserker -  just use a warrior.
• Swordmaster - just use a hero.
• Halberdier - just use a hero.
• Bow Knight - just use a warrior. What is this class skill that encourages a bow knight to stay glued to a position when the entire point is to have an archer with mobility?
• Paladin - just use ... anything else? Great Knight, Wolf Knight, Hero, Warrior, Wyvern Knight, etc.
• Avenir - See Paladin, but Alfred also has bad stats and I've consistently benched him after chapter 6.

Unsure:

• Wyvern Knight - Haven't used one yet, but they are usually broken. We shall see since this game is trying very hard to buff infantry and nerf mounts, but it mostly seems like cavalry is nerfed and flying is still good.
• Master Monk - Arts using average of strength and magic for a physical attack leaves a lot to be desired. Granted, I benched Framme and Jean early on so didn't give the class much chance to shine. I think Céline has the hybrid stats to work as one, but giving up tomes is a steep penalty. Maybe I should be giving more credit to the chain guard, but honestly just didn't feel inclined to using it much—having the one on my dancer seems sufficient.
• Mage Knight - Seems fine enough class in theory, but not many characters have the hybrid stats to make use of the class.
• Picket - I didn't use Timerra besides her join chapter. Class seems fine, but outclassed as a backup by Hero, probably.

Edited February 4, 2023 by FashionEmblem

[DefyingFates]

2 hours ago, FashionEmblem said:

After finishing chapter 15 maddening, a second time since I restarted to redo some early game stuff after getting more familiar with the systems, good classes are:

This is really detailed, thank you very much FashionEmblem! I'd love to hear your further thoughts once you're later in the story, if you care to share them. Thanks again!

P.S. Does anyone have any good experiences with Swordmaster's high Avoid?

Edited February 4, 2023 by DefyingFates

[Armchair General]

3 hours ago, FashionEmblem said:

What is this class skill that encourages a bow knight to stay glued to a position when the entire point is to have an archer with mobility?

In all fairness, most of my time in this game was spent either waiting for the enemy to off themselves and hope that they don't get anyone important or just parking my dudes in an hallway and prepping for the inevitable beating.

 

3 hours ago, FashionEmblem said:

but enemy wolf knights are easily some of the scariest I've dealt with so far

I'm actually kind of curious about this, since the ones that I'm seeing are glass cannons and I'm deliberately sending in an certain someone with an very specific weapon to one round them without taking any damage

 

3 hours ago, FashionEmblem said:

Successor - Very high weapon ranks are nice. Hard to tell how good the class is vs. how good Diamant is, but Sol makes Diamant quite a bit tanky and Diamant gaining Hand Axes for chain attacks is worth him being a priority for early promotion.

Mines isn't particularly much of an tank. I mainly use Diamant to break something and have him partnered with an shield and 2 other units just so he'll stay alive.

 

3 hours ago, FashionEmblem said:

Mage Knight - Seems fine enough class in theory, but not many characters have the hybrid stats to make use of the class.

I turned Clanne into one out of curiosity and the added mobility is invaluable. I also paired him with Lyn as means of generating bait and to snipe the occasional flier. Aside from the fact that he can't win an ranged duel, it's exactly what you'd expect from an mounted mage.

[Scaramuccia]

3 hours ago, FashionEmblem said:

•  
• Mage Knight - Seems fine enough class in theory, but not many characters have the hybrid stats to make use of the class.

You don't run Mage Knight as a hybrid class, you run them as mage. Levin Sword could be used if you want to get +spd bonus all the time.

[BloodRonin]

2 hours ago, Scaramuccia said:

Levin Sword could be used if you want to get +spd bonus all the time.

This 100%. 

[DaveCozy]

7 hours ago, FashionEmblem said:

Wolf Knight - High speed, high mobility dagger user is good. Once again, a bit hard to tell how good class is vs. Merrin, but enemy wolf knights are easily some of the scariest I've dealt with so far. High-mobility + daggers pairs very well with Lucina emblem for poison-stacking chain attacks and chain attacks within movement range instead of attack range.

Amber can instantly master seal to Wolf Knight as well from join, and it considerably bumps up his usefulness imo.

I would say Wolf Knight is the best Cavalry class in the game. Access to accurate and strong hitting 2range is great. Refining knives offers a lot of Mt in return.

Re: Wyvern Knight - yeah this class is still really good. Very high strength and respectable defense makes them fairly tanky. I have all of Chloé, Diamant and Kagetsu in this class myself for current Maddening run and the three of them stomp enemies flat. Chloé went Griffon > Wyvern specifically.

Edited February 4, 2023 by DaveCozy

[FashionEmblem]

5 hours ago, Armchair General said:

I'm actually kind of curious about this, since the ones that I'm seeing are glass cannons and I'm deliberately sending in an certain someone with an very specific weapon to one round them without taking any damage

I pulled up Chapter 14 since I have the save available. Wolf Knights have 27 physical attack, 24 speed, 53 avoid, 15 def, 17 res, and 26 crit. A Paladin on the same chapter has 28 physical attack, 20 speed, 44 avoid, 20 def, 15 res, and 12 crit. Those 4 points of speed make a big difference since most of my characters can avoid being doubled by the Paladin but pretty much everyone gets doubled by the Wolf Knights. Those extra hits also means more opportunities to crit.

In addition to doubling nearly my entire army, their speed also allows the Wolf Knights to dodge so many of my attacks. The wolves ended up being an RNG fest on this map with my hit rates ~70 and I had to rely on 66% and 75% Ridersbane strikes from Chloé and Amber to finish them off, and had to use the Time Crystal to rig those hits (note, I needed to kill those wolf knights immediately not just for survival but also to stop the thief from escaping with plundered boots).

 

6 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

P.S. Does anyone have any good experiences with Swordmaster's high Avoid?

Do Swordmasters have inherent avoid aside from their high speed stats? Kagestsu has a high base speed and 70% growth as a Swordmaster, so I could see him being dodgy, but enemy hit is high enough that I think you really need that covert terrain bonus (praise be to emblem Corrin) to dodge-tank. Swordmasters also suffer as dodgetanks from lack of access to 1-2 range.

Regarding classes I did discount high weapon ranks, and that opinion could change later into the game. Just doesn't seem worth it to lack weapon triangle control for breaking in exchange for an eventual strong but high weight S rank weapon on the mono-weapon classes (and the ones locked behind 90k donations, EACH, might as well NOT be in the game). At this point it feels like B rank is really enough in pretty much all the weapon rank I need. You gain access to strong silvers at B and braves at A seem unimpressive (super high weight so you never quad combined with super low might). Even for staves almost all the good ones come in at B so I'm not convinced you benefit from more than one staff user with A or above rank for Entrap (Fortify who?). Exception is tomes where A rank access to Thoron and Excalibur is super nice.

[Usana]

11 hours ago, FashionEmblem said:

High Priest - I'm not sure this class is bad, but I just tried reclassing Céline from Vidame into one to improve her staff rank and she takes a big speed penalty. Bad enough that she was no longer able to double Generals in Lucina's paralogues—strong bad unit feel when a mage can't double an armor.

High Priest is only 1 point of speed slower than Sage in base stats(and actually has 2 higher cap on speed if that matters). I think this has more to do with Vidame having a high base speed stat(3 higher than High Priest, 2 higher than Sage). So more Vidame very good than it is High Priest bad.

 

[Armchair General]

9 hours ago, FashionEmblem said:

Do Swordmasters have inherent avoid aside from their high speed stats?

Going by this table. It looks like the only time when one's class contributes  to evasion is whenever they're standing on beneficial terrain

[Tyrannate]

Quote

P.S. Does anyone have any good experiences with Swordmaster's high Avoid?

Yes, I can come close to soloing the game on Maddening with Kagetsu as a Swordmaster. I would never, ever change him into Hero or Warrior. He doesn't have an axe proficiency -making his 2 ranged options on Hero poor-, his stat growths and caps on SM are far too good, and the S-rank Sword is at least equal to the S-rank Lance. 

Pairing Kagetsu with Lyn has turned my Swordmaster into an dodge-tank killing machine that can "Naruto clone" to provide him with his own chain attacks with himself, and disperse aggro in 5 directions. Also, I've had clones straight up kill Maddening units many times with their 1 HP selves lol. 

People generally underrate Swordmaster, because they don't put in the effort to seriously try one out to its maximum potential. Being "swordlocked" and "footlocked" in Fire Emblem: Engage isn't nearly as detrimental as it was in the past, the weapon triangle provides no bonus or malus to damage dealt or accuracy, and dodge-ratin can get sky high with the right builds. 

Finally, the selection of swords you can have access to is unreal. For example, if you go with Roy instead of Lyn, you get 3 Emblem swords (two with unique properties including one 2-ranged physical option) and 5 other swords (lol). If you go Lyn, you get the excellent Manni Katti and arguably the best bow in the game - essentially becoming a Ninja Warrior. And during your downtime, you're still a far better defensive and oftentimes offensive option than Warrior - who trades range for crit, hit, dodge, and oftentimes damage as well. 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Tyrannate

[Dark Holy Elf]

On 2/4/2023 at 1:31 AM, DefyingFates said:

P.S. Does anyone have any good experiences with Swordmaster's high Avoid?

Swordmaster has no avoid bonus that I can see, so all they have going for them is 2 speed over, say, Hero, which works out to 4 avoid. Unless you have a weapon which weighs you down, at which point it's 1 spd / 2 avoid because Hero has +1 build. Meanwhile Hero having brave assist, +2 str, better bulk, and lance/axe access would seem to make them the superior choice in the vast majority of circumstances.

Kagetsu is a good unit and Lyn is a good emblem, of course they will make swordmaster look good, but virtually none of that quality is coming from Swordmaster itself.

@FashionEmblem Good list; I think I agree with most of it. Not super sold on Successeur (I'd much rather have Brave Assist than Sol) but it's certainly not bad. The main ones I'd bump up are Bow Knight/Cupido, yeah Warrior is really good and I don't think they're as good, but the extra move can certainly be significant. That's enough to give them a clear niche in my books, at least; 6 base move + 3 range is only achievable by the flying mages otherwise. Paladin I'll agree doesn't really have a unqiue niche compared to other cavalry classes, particularly Wolf Knight.

[ra2bk]

15 hours ago, Tyrannate said:

Yes, I can come close to soloing the game on Maddening with Kagetsu as a Swordmaster. I would never, ever change him into Hero or Warrior. He doesn't have an axe proficiency -making his 2 ranged options on Hero poor-, his stat growths and caps on SM are far too good, and the S-rank Sword is at least equal to the S-rank Lance. 

Pairing Kagetsu with Lyn has turned my Swordmaster into an dodge-tank killing machine that can "Naruto clone" to provide him with his own chain attacks with himself, and disperse aggro in 5 directons. Also, I've had clones straight up kill Maddening units many times with their 1 HP selves lol. 

People generally underrate Swordmaster, because they don't put in the effort to seriously try one out to its maximum potential. Being "swordlocked" and "footlocked" in Fire Emblem: Engage isn't nearly as detrimental as it was in the past, the weapon triangle provides no bonus or malus to damage dealt or accuracy, and dodge-ratin can get sky high with the right builds. 

Finally, the selection of swords you can have access to is unreal. For example, if you go with Roy instead of Lyn, you get 3 Emblem swords (two with unique properties including one 2-ranged physical option) and 5 other swords (lol). If you go Lyn, you get the excellent Manni Katti and arguably the best bow in the game - essentially becoming a Ninja Warrior. And during your downtime, you're still a far better defensive and oftentimes offensive option than Warrior - who trades range for crit, hit, dodge, and oftentimes damage as well. 

I leveled Kagetsu mostly as a Swordmaster, but then changed to Griffin Knight. Almost exact same growths (-10 HP, +15 mag, but same str, dex, speed, def) and then higher bases (+1 Str, +1 Dex, +6 Res, +1 luck, -1 Bld) and even generally higher maxes. Kagetsu still gets S-rank swords with Griffin Knight, but also gets access to flight, +1 move, and staves. Only thing you lose is chain attacks.

[BloodRonin]

I thought Paladins before were bad til I made Goldmary one in combo with Erika. The true damage is so nice. So is the on demand healing or 5 damage reduction. She has become a monster tank for me without even planning for it. (Playing maddening rng) I also keep my S rank polearms, so I can sue that beasty one you get in late game