Merciless/Hard 5 Walkthrough

[Rodykitty]

I have to agree. Chapter 3 Boss isn't as hard as the 2nd. WTA FTW.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

I was challenging your claim 'toughest boss in the game'. Is that really true?

Chapter 1 boss is harder because of the lack of save points.

Chapter 2 boss is harder because of the lack of the Killing Edge and Devil Axe.

Chapter 3, you have great access to a save point which you can rely on. Instead of a Silver Lance, you have a Killing Edge, which is more useful, and a Devil Axe, a good finisher..

Chapter 1: How does this fact make the boss harder? So what if there's no save point? You can have Jagen counter-attack with the Silver Lance and have every1 just barrage him with indirect attacks and only Jagen would take damage but it's easy to get around this because you can move him to a fort and replace Jagen with Cain or Marth.

Chapter 2: Yeah, there's no killing Edge or Devil Axe but how much harm can this guy cause? He's not doubling much and you've got enough capable units to attack him which makes up for the lack of Devil Axe and Killing Edge. You could beat him like this:

Turn 1: Position Jagen to counter-attack.

Turn 2: have some1 else counter-attack or bash the rest of his HP using any1 that doesn't get doubled.

Turn 3: Bash the rest of his EXP.

Chapter 3: You're using a Killing Edge and Devil Axe, both require luck. Every1 but Ogma and Nabarl are getting doubled (others have a chance but they'd have to be speed blessed). There's also the possibility that the boss could survive with 1 HP if Ogma didn't get any STR and your Devil Axe user isn't strong enough. What happens then? bye goes one of your units. Is this the same for the other bosses? No.

I was challenging your claim 'toughest boss in the game'. Is that really true?

That claim may be incorrect if you can find a tougher boss. Chapter 3 Boss limits you to just Killing Edge and Devil Axe. By the time you face any other boss, you should already have plenty of way to deal with them.

Edited December 26, 2008 by Levin

[Seph]

Chapter 1: How this fact make the boss harder? So what if there's no save point? You can have Jagen counter-attack with the Silver Lance have every1 just barrage him with indirect attacks and only Jagen would take damage but it's easy to get around because you can move him to a fort and replace Jagen with Cain (Iron Sword).

Are you suggesting that bosses have the same difficulty without a save point?

You have to start the chapter from the beginning if you fail, while when there's a save point you can just start again.

Sure, you can say that they all have the same stats and all, but you have to play much more safely in Chapter 1 and not take risks. This isn't the same for Chapter 3. That's why it's harder.

The indirect attacks are very inaccurate, each of them has about 50% hit or less. Gordon is the only one with more than 50% while the rest have much lower because of the weapon triangle. You have to take a long time in getting the boss to low health and hope that the Silver Lance doesn't miss. AND you don't have a goddamn save point!

Chapter 2: Yeah, there's no killing Edge or Devil Axe but how much harm can this guy cause? He's not doubling much and you've got enough capable units to attack him which makes up for the lack of Devil Axe and Killing Edge. You could beat him like this:

Turn 1: Position Jagen to counter-attack.

Turn 2: have some1 else counter-attack or bash the rest of his HP using any1 that doesn't get doubled.

Turn 3: Bash the rest of his EXP.

Killing the Chapter 2 boss isn't hard, but it's just not as reliable as Chapter 3.

Chapter 3: You're using a Killing Edge and Devil Axe, both require luck. Every1 but Ogma and Nabarl are getting doubled (others have a chance but they'd have to be speed blessed). There's also the possibility that the boss could survive with 1 HP if Ogma didn't get any STR and your Devil Axe user isn't strong enough. What happens then? bye goes one of your units. Is this the same for the other bosses? No.

Luck manipulated by the save point. And easily manipulated. Save points are a part of boss battling, you can't deny that.

You can beat him on the first try like I did. Just keep Oguma for counter attacks and then when you get the crit hit him with the Devil Axe user. What an easy boss.

Wait, I think I have something wrong here, but Oguma will have 14 might with the killing edge, 6 str. That means 7 damage, right? Depending on the formula of the critical hit (was it x3?) that's 21 damage..

Barts has 10 str base. 27 might. 20 damage.

Yeah, I forgot that boss heals himself.

Still, the boss has very low hit. He can miss hitting Barts with the Hand Axe, thanks to save point manipulation!

Dead boss.

Edited December 26, 2008 by Julius

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Are you suggesting that bosses have the same difficulty without a save point?

You have to start the chapter from the beginning if you fail, while when there's a save point you can just start again.

Sure, you can say that they all have the same stats and all, but you have to play much more safely in Chapter 1 and not take risks. This isn't the same for Chapter 3. That's why it's harder.

The indirect attacks are very inaccurate, each of them has about 50% hit or less. Gordon is the only one with more than 50% while the rest have much lower because of the weapon triangle. You have to take a long time in getting the boss to low health and hope that the Silver Lance doesn't miss. AND you don't have a goddamn save point!

What risks are you taking when you can bash this guy with indirect attacks and it's easy to see whether or not some1 dies? They're inaccurate sure but the fact is that they're at your disposal and this boss is only a threat to your direct attack units and that's only if you play like a moron (example, attacking the boss on your turn hoping that he would miss either on the counter-attack or on his next turn). Why you would need a save point for this boss is beyond my understand. I could understand if you hate the lack of save points because of the initial enemies but for the boss? Not necessary at all.

Killing the Chapter 2 boss isn't hard, but it's just not as reliable as Chapter 3.

Not as reliable? You're relying on 2 weapons that need luck to work and a save point. In this one, you've got a save point and several who can help out and there's less luck involved.

Luck manipulated by the save point. And easily manipulated. Save points are a part of boss battling, you can't deny that.

You can beat him on the first try like I did. Just keep Oguma for counter attacks and then when you get the crit hit him with the Devil Axe user. What an easy boss.

Wait, I think I have something wrong here, but Oguma will have 14 might with the killing edge, 6 str. That means 7 damage, right? Depending on the formula of the critical hit (was it x3?) that's 21 damage..

Barts has 10 str base. 27 might. 20 damage.

Yeah, I forgot that boss heals himself.

Still, the boss has very low hit. He can miss hitting Barts with the Hand Axe, thanks to save point manipulation!

Dead boss.

The luck manipulation thing being part of boss battling? that's probably only true for the first few bosses but trust me, the latter ones will hardly need the use of a save point. I've gone and missed a boss with a "key" unit at 80% hit rates and even then, I've managed to kill him anyway because I had more than enough backup to accomplish it. Camus would be a tough boss but you can have many ways to deal with him. The only thing he's a danger to are units who get nuked by his ATK or units with less than 18 AS.

Your calculations are correct, except you forgot to factor in 5 DEF. I know that boss can miss but so can your units with 70% hit rates >_>.

Save point manipulation exists for chapter 2 boss also. Still think chapter 2 boss is harder than chapter 3?

Edited December 26, 2008 by Levin

[Seph]

What risks are you taking when you can bash this guy with indirect attacks and it's easy to see whether or not some1 dies? They're inaccurate sure but the fact is that they're at your disposal and this boss is only a threat to your direct attack units and that's only if you play like a moron (example, attacking the boss on your turn hoping that he would miss either on the counter-attack or on his next turn). Why you would need a save point for this boss is beyond my understand. I could understand if you hate the lack of save points because of the initial enemies but for the boss? Not necessary at all.

I never, ever said it was necessary. I never, ever said you needed it. I never, ever said it was a hard boss battle. I did say it makes it more difficult.

You're taking the risk that Jeigan doesn't hit. 60% chance. If it doesn't, he'll heal himself more, and in some turns, he'll heal more than you hit him. It's extremely long.

Not as reliable? You're relying on 2 weapons that need luck to work and a save point. In this one, you've got a save point and several who can help out and there's less luck involved.

You have a save point to fall back on when luck fails. Very reliable in my opinion. When you have luck in your hand, it's pretty much over. The boss is extremely easy to beat once you have the save point in your hands.

There's less luck involved. In Chapter 3, luck was a huge factor which could be abused by the use of a save point.. in chapter 2, there's less luck, so you can't fall back on save points very well... it depends on the strength of your units, etc.. less luck manipulation.

The luck manipulation thing being part of boss battling? that's probably only true for the first few bosses but trust me, the latter ones will hardly need the use of a save point. I've gone and missed a boss with a "key" unit at 80% hit rates and even then, I've managed to kill him anyway because I had more than enough backup to accomplish it. Camus would be a tough boss but you can have many ways to deal with him. The only thing he's a danger to are units who get nuked by his ATK or units with less than 18 AS.

We are not talking about the latter ones. As you said, it's a part of the first few bosses.

Your calculations are correct, except you forgot to factor in 5 DEF. I know that boss can miss but so can your units with 70% hit rates >_>.

Save points help for misses.

The boss will die in a single turn.

You have 14 might with Oguma.

The boss has 7 def, including throne bonus and 5 def of himself.

21 damage with crit.

20 health left.

Barts comes in with 27 might.

20 damage.

Bye bye.

These are the base stats by the way.

Save point manipulation exists for chapter 2 boss also. Still think chapter 2 boss is harder than chapter 3?

Yes.

Chapter 1 boss > 2 > 3

Edited December 26, 2008 by Julius

[Dr. Tarrasque]

For chapter 1 boss. You have indirect attacks at your disposal and he can't do a thing about it. So what if it takes a long time? that's not making it hard unless you're trying to rank the game by the standards FE3 Player's coming up with.

Chapter 2 boss doesn't need luck manipulation and you don't even need the save point to beat him. Isn't something that requires luck manipulation harder than something that doesn't require it.

As for those calculations, I'm not so sure about them anymore, I think I remember seeing Ogma doing 6 damage to that boss. I'll replay that chapter and see what happens.

[Seph]

For chapter 1 boss. You have indirect attacks at your disposal and he can't do a thing about it. So what if it takes a long time? that's not making it hard unless you're trying to rank the game by the standards FE3 Player's coming up with.

Doesn't change the fact that you can't fall back on your save point so it's harder.

Chapter 2 boss doesn't need luck manipulation and you don't even need the save point to beat him. Isn't something that requires luck manipulation harder than something that doesn't require it.

Yeah, I know all that, he doesn't need save points, BUT it makes it easier, right? So we're gonna factor it in, and say it's being used.

No, it's not. You have luck manipulation in your hands so it's easy. You have that opportunity.

And even then, using Oguma for only counter attacking and waiting for a crit makes the boss easy too.

As for those calculations, I'm not so sure about them anymore, I think I remember seeing Ogma doing 6 damage to that boss. I'll replay that chapter and see what happens.

Mine is doing nine damage now with 7 strength..

Anyway, all in all, you should say something like "easy if you use save point manipulation but hard without, and even then just use Oguma for counter attacking and you should eventually get a crit and be able to kill the boss with a Devil Axe hit from Barts".

Edited December 26, 2008 by Julius

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Doesn't change the fact that you can't fall back on your save point so it's harder.

Yeah, I know all that, he doesn't need save points, BUT it makes it easier, right? So we're gonna factor it in, and say it's being used.

No, it's not. You have luck manipulation in your hands so it's easy.

Mine is doing nine damage now with 7 strength..

You won't have to fall back on your save point if you just hit him with indirect attacks and finish him with an accurate direct attack.

The fact that he doesn't need the save point should be enough to say that he isn't harder than chapter Reynard (chapter 3 boss).

Hmm, you win that one, I'm seeing that too.

Edited December 26, 2008 by Levin

[Seph]

You won't have to fall back on your save point if you just hit him with indirect attacks and finish him with an accurate direct attack.

I know all that. It's still harder because of no save point, even if by a small margin.

The fact that he doesn't need the save point should be enough to say that he isn't harder than chapter Reynard (chapter 3 boss).

Reynard doesn't need a save point either. Have Oguma counter attack only. The moment you get a goddamn crit, finish with Barts and his Devil Axe.

I was kinda disappointed when I battled the Chapter 3 boss and I expected a challenge. For that reason, you should edit it and say what I said:

Easy if you use save point manipulation and but hard without and even then just use Oguma for counter attacking with a Killing Edge and you should eventually get a crit and be able to kill the boss with a Devil Axe hit from Barts.

More reliable than chapter 1 boss since nearly everything and their mother misses.

Edited December 26, 2008 by Julius

[Dr. Tarrasque]

I know all that. It's still harder because of no save point, even if by a small margin.

Not even by a small margin. I looked at this boss again and the only threat I can find on him is that he'll have a 2% critical hit rate on Jagen. That alone would make you restart the chapter (but then again, so can any pirate attacking Jage) but you still have indirect attacks on your side and they don't get counter-attacked. It can take a long time but that doesn't play a role in its difficulty. I think we need some other input on this one...

Reynard doesn't need a save point either. Have Oguma counter attack only. The moment you get a goddamn crit, finish with Barts and his Devil Axe.

I was kinda disappointed when I battled the Chapter 3 boss and I expected a challenge. For that reason, you should edit it and say what I said:

Easy if you use save point manipulation and without just use Oguma for counter attacking with a Killing Edge and you should eventually get a crit and be able to kill the boss with a Devil Axe hit from Barts.

More reliable than chapter 1 boss since nearly everything and their mother misses.

That's assuming the Devil Axe doesn't kill you and it can take a while for the crit to kick in. Any boss is easy with save point manipulation...

The Devil Axe's curse kicking in is more dangerous than that stupid base 3% crit the chapter 1 boss has.

They're missing without but they're nowhere near death when they're attacking indirectly. I find that more reliable.

Edited December 26, 2008 by Levin

[Seph]

Not even by a small margin. I looked at this boss again and the only threat I can find on him is that he'll have a 2% critical hit rate on Jagen. That alone would make you restart the chapter (but then again, so can any pirate attacking Jage) but you still have indirect attacks on your side and they don't get counter-attacked. It can take a long time but that doesn't play a role in its difficulty. I think we need some other input on this one...

What if you make a mistake, and have to restart the entire chapter instead of falling back on a save point?

Which is what makes it harder. Humans make mistakes.

That's assuming the Devil Axe doesn't kill you and it can take a while for the crit to kick in. Any boss is easy with save point manipulation...

The Devil Axe's curse kicking in is more dangerous than that stupid base 3% crit the chapter 1 boss has.

I edited my post but it was a bit too late.

Anyone in their right mind would use a save point for the Chapter 3 boss.

Save points are a part of the game, part of the chapter, part of the difficulty, part of the boss battles.

They're missing without but they're nowhere near death when they're attacking indirectly. I find that more reliable.

Nah, relying on a save point is cooler.

Edited December 26, 2008 by Julius

[Rodykitty]

For the record, I am going to require the save point, Oguma, and criticals/Devil Axe to be used in ranking FEDS, as Levin probably already saw in that file I shown him.

I don't know if it's easier, but it certainly is faster.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

What if you make a mistake, and have to restart the entire chapter instead of falling back on a save point?

Which is what makes it harder. Humans make mistakes.

I edited my post but it was a bit too late.

Anyone in their right mind would use a save point for the Chapter 3 boss.

Save points are a part of the game, part of the chapter, part of the difficulty, part of the boss battles

There's hardly any mistakes to make here. I would say the lack of save point plays a role in making the chapter difficult. Not specifically the boss.

Nah, relying on a save point is cooler.

I prefer relying on good tactics but this is pretty much opinion.

For the record, I am going to require the save point, Oguma, and criticals/Devil Axe to be used in ranking FEDS, as Levin probably already saw in that file I shown him.

I don't know if it's easier, but it certainly is faster.

Hmm, think there should be a save point ranking? Without it, most of the chapters will be easy to rank with save point abuse.

Edited December 26, 2008 by Levin

[Seph]

There's hardly any mistakes to make here. I would say the lack of save point plays a role in making the chapter difficult. Not specifically the boss.

The chapter itself isn't difficult. To be honest, I've only played 3 chapters on H5, but I found all of them to be quite easy.

Alright, coming to Chapter 1. Humans make mistakes all the time. What if you do, and you can't fall back on a save point? Chapter restart. Oh crap. Which is what makes the chapter 1 boss harder than the others.

I prefer relying on good tactics but this is pretty much opinion.

I would too, except I'm not oblivious to the fact that humans make mistakes all the time so I don't have to restart the whole thing from the beginning.

Edited December 26, 2008 by Julius

[Dr. Tarrasque]

The chapter itself isn't difficult. To be honest, I've only played 3 chapters on H5, but I found all of them to be quite easy.

Alright, coming to Chapter 1. Humans make mistakes all the time. What if you do, and you can't fall back on a save point? Chapter restart. Oh crap. Which is what makes the chapter 1 boss harder than the others.

I would too, except I'm not oblivious to the fact that humans make mistakes all the time so I don't have to restart the whole thing from the beginning.

The chapter would be more difficult, not the boss specifically.

I think my save point suggestions should say a thing or 2 of my awareness that humans can make mistakes... After all, there's also the critical hit rates getting in your way.

Edited December 26, 2008 by Levin

[Rodykitty]

Hmm, think there should be a save point ranking? Without it, most of the chapters will be easy to rank with save point abuse.

I don't think it will make much of a difference except where it counts. We don't know if it's easy to rank the game yet either (since it's still in development and will need playtesting in the future). I think it would be better to keep consistent speed strategies instead of wasting too many turns over a boss.

[Seph]

The chapter would be more difficult, not the boss specifically.

If the boss makes the chapter more difficult because you may have to restart, then the boss is more difficult, common sense.

I think my save point suggestions should say a thing or 2 of my awareness that humans can make mistakes... After all, there's also the critical hit rates getting in your way.

Seems to me that the Killer weapons make save points a necessity.

I haven't played through H5 very much but at first impression it seems easy with save points, nearly impossible without because it requires constant restarting.

EDIT: Have fun constantly restarting Chapter 3 because of the boss without save points when you're ranking.

Edited December 26, 2008 by Julius

[Rodykitty]

EDIT: Have fun constantly restarting Chapter 3 because of the boss without save points when you're ranking.

One of the reasons save points are staying. Chapter 3 is extremely luck based.

The other reason save points are staying is because you can't look at the completed game file and say, "I only used # save points." It just doesn't have that information. I'm trying to keep the criteria down to things that people can actually take screenshots of.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Seems to me that the Killer weapons make save points a necessity.

I haven't played through H5 very much but at first impression it seems easy with save points, nearly impossible without because it requires constant restarting.

EDIT: Have fun constantly restarting Chapter 3 because of the boss without save points when you're ranking.

Against killer weapon enemies it certainly helps since you'll often have to be in the range of a Killer Bow sniper to lure and kill.

Every1's using save points, no question there. The difficulty mostly lies in the first 10 chapters because of how limited your options are there, specially in chapter 3.

Jumping to conclusions are we? Of course you'll need to restart the save point on that boss if the critical which is why it could be implemented starting on chapter 4 or making it possible so that you can make up for it by not using the latter save points (since you'll hardly need those).

[Seph]

Jumping to conclusions are we? Of course you'll need to restart the save point on that boss if the critical which is why it could be implemented starting on chapter 4 or making it possible so that you can make up for it by not using the latter save points (since you'll hardly need those).

Am I missing something here?

What conclusions? It's common sense.. you have to make sure that the Devil Axe hits AND you don't die.

Edited December 26, 2008 by Julius

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Am I missing something here?

What conclusions? It's common sense.. you have to make sure that the Devil Axe hits AND you don't die.

You assumed that such a rank would have to be implemented on every chapter and that it would be difficult to the point where you'd have to restart chapter 3 over and over again. That's what I meant -_-

Edited December 26, 2008 by Levin

[Seph]

You assumed that such a rank would have to be implemented on every chapter and that it would be difficult to the point where you'd have to restart chapter 3 over and over again.

I was replying to this:

Hmm, think there should be a save point ranking? Without it, most of the chapters will be easy to rank with save point abuse.

Implemented starting on chapter 4 why? Why not the whole game?

[Dr. Tarrasque]

I was replying to this:

Implemented starting on chapter 4 why? Why not the whole game?

You quoted my post so that made me think you were replying to mine >_>.

Because the first 3 chapters require too much luck. Of course that's not to say that it can't be implemented on all.

[Seph]

Yeah, sorry about that, I thought it was over after replying to everything in your post.

Because the first 3 chapters require too much luck. Of course that's not to say that it can't be implemented on all.

Piss. The game creators put the save points for a reason. They're in the game. Why can't you use them? Unlike save states, THEY ARE A PART OF THE GAME.

Edited December 26, 2008 by Julius

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Yeah, sorry about that, I thought it was over after replying to everything in your post.

Piss. The game creators put the save points for a reason. They're in the game. Why can't you use them? Unlike save states, THEY ARE A PART OF THE GAME.

When did I say you can't use them? I simply asked if it might be a good idea to limit their use so abusing them won't trivialize ranking H5.

Edited December 26, 2008 by Levin