Merciless/Hard 5 Walkthrough

[Seph]

Yeah, I have. The first time I made it to the boss I had Draug, Gordin and Abel dead and didn't buy any Javelins. Managed to beat him anyway. The Silver Lance didn't break and I managed to keep around 5 Heal staff uses. It's a stupid way to do it but it's possible.

Nah, I meant that you can't beat him without indirect attacks. Or can you?

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Nah, I meant that you can't beat him without indirect attacks. Or can you?

You can. I pretty much said that in what you quoted.

[Seph]

I had Draug, Gordin and Abel dead and didn't buy any Javelins.

I assumed that you used indirect attacks but you didn't buy Javelins.

Okay, I'm gonna try that if I'm not lazy.

[dondon151]

Not sure if this has been settled already, but:

Lack of save points doesn't affect a boss's stats, nor does it affect the terrain he stands on, nor does it affect the number of available spaces from which you can attack the boss, etc. Therefore, it doesn't make a boss harder.

The consequence of losing a unit to a boss is having to restart from a save... doesn't matter what kind of save, because the boss kicked your ass anyway.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Not sure if this has been settled already, but:

Lack of save points doesn't affect a boss's stats, nor does it affect the terrain he stands on, nor does it affect the number of available spaces from which you can attack the boss, etc. Therefore, it doesn't make a boss harder.

The consequence of losing a unit to a boss is having to restart from a save... doesn't matter what kind of save, because the boss kicked your ass anyway.

That's what I was trying to say but I think you did a better job of that than I did.

[Seph]

Lack of save points doesn't affect a boss's stats, nor does it affect the terrain he stands on, nor does it affect the number of available spaces from which you can attack the boss, etc. Therefore, it doesn't make a boss harder.

I know that's true.

But you have to play without taking any risks, and play more defensively, instead of playing less effectively since it's too risky.

Can you deny that?

Edited December 28, 2008 by Julius

[Dr. Tarrasque]

I know that's true.

But you have to play without taking any risks, and play more defensively, instead of playing less effectively since it's too risky.

Can you deny that?

No and that's not the point. The point is that the save point availability isn't a factor of a boss' difficulty, his stats (terrain included) are. I don't feel like arguing much on this since I apparently suck at getting my point across and will end up in a loop -_-

Edited December 28, 2008 by Levin

[Seph]

Beating a boss is about playing, making your moves.

The more effectively you play, the easier a boss is.

The less effectively you play, the harder a boss is.

Without a save point, you have to play less effectively against a boss, take less risks and so on.

Chapter 3's boss is an excellent example of this. He's easy with a save point but hard without. That proves that save points are a factor in boss difficulty. You said it yourself!

With a save point in Chapter 3, you can use a Killing Edge and Devil Axe and easily win the fight.

Without, it's too risky, so you probably have stall him out of Hand Axe uses.

Therefore, the boss is more difficult.

You can't deny this. This is proof that save points make a boss easier.

Edited December 28, 2008 by Julius

[Dr. Tarrasque]

There's something very wrong with that post (other than 4th line which is probably something you may want to edit btw) but I can't figure out how to put it...

All I can say right now is that a player's skill may not be a factor in how difficult the boss is in general because if that were the case, then I'm free to brag and call every1 who says MMX6 is hard a pussy since I can take all bosses at max level with naked X. Hell, I'm free to say that the game itself is easy since I can beat it without losing a single life but does that make it a fact? Personally, I think not.

Yes, the Killing Edge critical and Devil Axe coupled with a save point makes Reynard easier, which is why I suggested it. But just because this method exists, is stated in a walkthrough you may or may not be using doesn't mean that the boss IS ACTUALLY EASY because statistically, he sure as hell isn't.

Just because there's a way to make Reynard easy doesn't mean he is... I don't know how to continue from here and we should probably do this on another thread.

Edited December 28, 2008 by Levin

[Seph]

All I can say right now is that a player's skill may not be a factor in how difficult the boss is in general because if that were the case, then I'm free to brag and call every1 who says MMX6 is hard a pussy since I can take all bosses at max level with naked X. Hell, I'm free to say that the game itself is easy since I can beat it without losing a single life but does that make it a fact? Personally, I think not.

You thought I was talking about the player's skill?

I was comparing a boss with a save point to a boss without a save point. You play less effectively in the one without, so..

Yes, the Killing Edge critical and Devil Axe coupled with a save point makes Reynard easier, which is why I suggested it. But just because this method exists, is stated in a walkthrough you may or may not be using doesn't mean that the boss IS ACTUALLY EASY because statistically, he sure as hell isn't.

That doesn't do anything but prove my point. The Killing Edge + Devil Axe is an obvious strategy, so don't claim it as your own.

Let's say there's a boss with amazing stats who no one except Merric can kill, and he has a spell which can kill him in a single hit. Overall, would the boss be easy or hard? Easy of course.

Just because I found a way to make Reynard easy doesn't mean he is... I don't know how to continue from here and we should probably do this on another thread.

Again, the strategy is obvious.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

You thought I was talking about the player's skill?

I was comparing a boss with a save point to a boss without a save point. You play less effectively in the one without, so..

That doesn't do anything but prove my point. The Killing Edge + Devil Axe is an obvious strategy, so don't claim it as your own.

Let's say there's a boss with amazing stats who no one except Merric can kill, and he has a spell which can kill him in a single hit. Overall, would the boss be easy or hard? Easy of course.

Again, the strategy is obvious.

That first line sort of implied it.

Didn't claim it, just suggested it.

You're right, it wouldn't be hard if Merric could take him out in 1 blow.

Sure is. Makes me wonder why people struggle with him O_o.

Edited December 29, 2008 by Levin

[FionordeQuester]

Fucking shit...I seriously cannot believe how many units your required to kill in order to get to the Gaidens...it's absolutely insane...

Now that I think of it though, FE6 would've been absolutely perfect for this process though!

Edited January 3, 2009 by FionordeQuester

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Eh not really, just pick 10-14 units you're gonna use and forgot about recruiting the others. Those that are automatically recruited can usually be killed in the chapter you get them.

Seriously, I don't get why the gaiden requirements are such a big deal... Sure I would've preferred it if it was done through turn counts or something but this isn't as bad as you think.

[FionordeQuester]

I wasn't saying it was anything bad, but just the very idea of having to purposely kill like 42 of your own men just to be able to play all the chapters is just...weird, don't ya think?

[Rodykitty]

Well, it certainly is weird.

I second the suggestion of turn count, though it's too late for that now. The only reason they used this mechanic was to help newbie players that kept getting units killed. Still, not something I would call more than an inconvenience.

[FionordeQuester]

Heh, I know, and it's not even that helpful anyways, not to me, I mean you get like, what, one new dude to make up for your losses? Oh yes, that definetly makes up for losing 75% of your army, lol!

[dondon151]

I know that's true.

But you have to play without taking any risks, and play more defensively, instead of playing less effectively since it's too risky.

hmm I've kind of neglected this topic because I didn't notice it was stickied >.<

Isn't it assumed that the player won't take large risks regardless of the availability of mid-battle saves? It's preferable to not reset at all, regardless of battle saves. A player may be more encouraged to try a strategy against a boss that works only 6% of the time if there is a save point nearby, but whether or not that save point exists, the strategy will still only work 6% of the time. Furthermore, if there is a foolproof way to defeat a boss in 10 turns, then being able to defeat a boss in 3 turns using a risky strategy doesn't make the boss any easier.

IMO a boss is only hard if all viable strategies carry a large amount of risk.

[Rodykitty]

Heh, I know, and it's not even that helpful anyways, not to me, I mean you get like, what, one new dude to make up for your losses? Oh yes, that definetly makes up for losing 75% of your army, lol!

And extra EXP for the units that *are* kept alive.

Isn't it assumed that the player won't take large risks regardless of the availability of mid-battle saves? It's preferable to not reset at all, regardless of battle saves. A player may be more encouraged to try a strategy against a boss that works only 6% of the time if there is a save point nearby, but whether or not that save point exists, the strategy will still only work 6% of the time. Furthermore, if there is a foolproof way to defeat a boss in 10 turns, then being able to defeat a boss in 3 turns using a risky strategy doesn't make the boss any easier.

For the chapter 3 boss, the Killer Sword is the best strategy, regardless of if you're using map saves or not.

[Dat Nick]

Oh yes, that definetly makes up for losing 75% of your army, lol!

Most of this 75% not worth a damn. On H5, the number of useless units only increases.

[Ephidel]

I'm currently on Chapter 4 with a Level 12 Shiida, Level 12 Marth, Level 12 Ogma, Level 12 Cain, Level 12 Julian, Level 3 Nabarl (going to be killed off), Level 3 Barst (going to be killed off), Level 3 Lena (going to keep for a while at least) and a Level 4 Wrys (going to die a painful death).

I Boss abused on Gazzak (Shiida + Javelins = massive EXP) and Reynard (Marth, Ogma, Cain and Julian reached Level 12 each and A Level Sword Rank).

I wasn't sure whether Arenas receive the same boost (on Merciless) as the main enemies in each map, so I figured I might as well "even up the odds" so to speak.

Everyone else is dead btw, my only other playthrough was on Normal and didn't get the Gaiden Chapters so I intend to train up those characters instead (Yes, even if they suck).

Nabarl was pretty crap on my Normal run, so I'm not too bothered about killing him off, but do you get any good Axe users in the Gaiden Chapters?

Plus, can someone explain Luck to me? Even after playing FE for about 5 years, I still never actually found out what Luck does! =0

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Nabarl was pretty crap on my Normal run, so I'm not too bothered about killing him off, but do you get any good Axe users in the Gaiden Chapters?

Plus, can someone explain Luck to me? Even after playing FE for about 5 years, I still never actually found out what Luck does! =0

There's Ymir but he comes in after 20x and isn't very good since he's not doubling anything and needs to change to Hero to not get doubled. At least as a Hero he can use the Pole Axe which is damn useful in the late game chapters. Barst is the best natural Axe user and probably the best overall too.

In this game, luck does the following...

2 LCK = 1 Hit

2 LCK = 1 Avoid

1 LCK = 1% critical evade

1 LCK = 1% backfire/curse evade

Edited January 18, 2009 by Levin

[Ephidel]

There's Ymir but he comes in after 20x and isn't very good since he's not doubling anything and needs to change to Hero to not get doubled. At least as a Hero he can use the Pole Axe which is damn useful in the late game chapters. Barst is the best natural Axe user and probably the best overall too.

In this game, luck does the following...

2 LCK = 1 Hit

2 LCK = 1 Avoid

1 LCK = 1% critical evade

1 LCK = 1% backfire/curse evade

Thanks for the Luck explanation. :)

As for Barst, it looks like you've just spared him the death sentence then.

Regarding Wolf/Sedgar, I let Sedgar die on Normal, and I cba with Wolf, but I personally, don't WANT to train them. Do they help out THAT much, and do you think that if I train them, I won't have enough space for the Gaiden Chapters recruits?

I'm definitely taking Tiki and Caesar as well, so add that to Marth, Cain, Shiida, Julian, Ogma and Lena and I fast have a growing problem with Gaiden Chapter requirements.

The only people I lost on Normal were Tiki, Astram, Merric, Cain (decoy in P4) and Xane (died in the Arena at level 24 -________-) and I want to try some of them out this time.

Also, who to train for magic? Merric or Linde? I trained Linde last time and she OHKO'd Gharnef with Starlight (No Crit, just a standard attack).

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Thanks for the Luck explanation. :)

As for Barst, it looks like you've just spared him the death sentence then.

Regarding Wolf/Sedgar, I let Sedgar die on Normal, and I cba with Wolf, but I personally, don't WANT to train them. Do they help out THAT much, and do you think that if I train them, I won't have enough space for the Gaiden Chapters recruits?

I'm definitely taking Tiki and Caesar as well, so add that to Marth, Cain, Shiida, Julian, Ogma and Lena and I fast have a growing problem with Gaiden Chapter requirements.

The only people I lost on Normal were Tiki, Astram, Merric, Cain (decoy in P4) and Xane (died in the Arena at level 24 -________-) and I want to try some of them out this time.

Also, who to train for magic? Merric or Linde? I trained Linde last time and she OHKO'd Gharnef with Starlight (No Crit, just a standard attack).

No prob.

lol good. Barst doesn't deserve death, he's pretty good.

General Wolf and Sedgar do help a lot. Early in the game, their job is to pretty much tank and counter-attack so that you can pick off the weakened enemies with good ranged attacks. Sedgar's DEF growth makes it so that with a few level ups, he'll take little to no damage soon. In the later chapters, enemies start to use Brave weapons so the General class pretty much becomes the best direct attack physical class. Wolf's DEF growth as a general is pretty decent too (90% IIRC). You can make room for the gaidens by killing off generic units you get and units that have ended up screwed like... Shiida for example, she sucks a direct attack physical unit after the early game. Gaiden requirements really aren't a problem, use mostly early game units and make room later depending on how your units ended up.

Why Caesar? Tiki's good.

Astram sucks. Xane is awesome, have him copy a healer or General Sedgar or whatever you need a double of.

Merric >>> Linde, you don't need high magic stats, Linde comes underleveled and you don't need to kill Gharnef either. Merric is probably the only Magic user capable of taking at least 1 assault from a brave weapon user, every other magic unit is dead and physical units that aren't Generals will probably be 2rounded

Edited January 18, 2009 by Levin

[Ephidel]

No prob.

lol good. Barst doesn't deserve death, he's pretty good.

General Wolf and Sedgar do help a lot. Early in the game, their job is to pretty much tank and counter-attack so that you can pick off the weakened enemies with good ranged attacks. Sedgar's DEF growth makes it so that with a few level ups, he'll little to no damage soon. In the later chapters, enemies start to use Brave weapons so the General class pretty much becomes the best direct attack physical class. Wolf's DEF growth as a general is pretty decent too (90% IIRC). You can make room for the gaidens by killing off generic units you get and units that have ended up screwed like... Shiida for example, she sucks a direct attack physical unit after the early game. Gaiden requirements really aren't a problem, use mostly early game units and make room later depending on how your units ended up.

Why Caesar? Tiki's good.

Astram sucks. Xane is awesome, have him copy a healer or General Sedgar or whatever you need a double of.

Merric >>> Linde, you don't need high magic stats, Linde comes underleveled and you don't need to kill Gharnef either. Merric is probably the only Magic user capable of taking at least 1 assault from a brave weapon user, every other magic unit is dead and physical units that aren't Generals will probably be 2rounded

Caesar had better Str Growths on Normal (along with great Skl and Spd like Ogma), but I didn't want to stop training Ogma either.

I had Xane copy my 20/20 Frey for the Arena (my Frey naturally capped Str, Skl and Spd), so I kinda thought he'd be pretty useful tbh. I just cba restarting again as I wanted to free Altea to see if I got Elice (not until C24 though, was it?).

Linde did come underlevelled, but I'm an Arena-abusing FIEND. I'm the kind of guy that spent 500+ Turns in The Port of Badon on RnK, just get at least 3 units to 20/20 on Hector's Hard Mode!

Agreed on the Gharnef point though. Is he always the one in the bottom right, though?

Nice to know Brave weapons finally show up again. Is the game starkly different then on Hard Mode? I one-rounded Medeus on Normal!

I have to say, I'm looking forward to playing Chapter 24 with the constant reinforcements up to Turn 50! D: *Is both mortified and excited by the thought*

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Ah, if you're an arena abuser, then I guess you don't really need suggestions on what characters to use. Elice comes after chapter 23 (meaning she'll be in C24's prep screen).

The real Gharnef's position is random.

Medeus can't be doubled in H5, enemies will have increased STR growths and quickly switch to stronger weapons. However, abusers may not find the game challenging at all since you'll be able to nuke late game enemies with ease. Brave weapons are obtainable in the online shop in the weekends.

With overpowered units, you may find the C24 reinforcements to be disappointing =\.

Edited January 18, 2009 by Levin