Unit customisation

[Interceptor]

Targeting the game at casuals is how this game pays for itself, since the folks like us are massively outnumbered by them. From all reports, the "casual" features like no perma-death and easier modes are optional. The hardcores still have their "classic" death system, and Lunatic mode. In other words, we get to eat our cake, and still have it, which seems like an entirely reasonable compromise to me.

Howl alone at the moon.

[Don Draper]

I'm not only reffering to the addition of a customizable character but the addition of so many "casual friendly" engines while making while practically ignoring players who enjoy a challenge and providing them with meager pittances(like the socalled "Lunatic" mode.)

You're whining about something you can completely ignore. Let that sink in for a bit.

Also,I find it hilarious that you're referring to the different difficulty modes as "meager pittances" when you have absolutely no idea whatsoever as to what they include. You're hand-waving something you don't know a THING about.

I think we have ourselves a troll here.

[Sophius]

Basically, all I'm doing is describing shadow dragon and commenting that the mentioned content is screaming "just like shadow dragon"!

I didn't feel as though I could "have my cake and eat it" in shadow dragon. I felt that it targeted casual players and ripped veterans off with sorry excuses for "high difficulty levels."

[Violet]

I find it weird how people complain about Fire Emblem not being hard enough. Okay, so a lot of people are tactical ninjas, but I consider myself a major Fire Emblem fan but I still find the games difficult. I don't like spending an hour in a Chapter only to have a unit die right at the end, forcing me to restart. I was so pleased when Intelligent Systems started adding things like Battle Saves. I simply don't have the time to spend another hour on the same chapter because of a fluke Critical or something, and it often stops me from making progress in a game I otherwise love.

As for me, I'm just happy that they're finally releasing Monshou no Nazo outside Japan. Anyone who considers themselves a hardcore Fire Emblem fan should be happy for that single fact alone.

[Emblem Lugh]

I'm not only reffering to the addition of a customizable character but the addition of so many "casual friendly" engines while practically ignoring players who enjoy a challenge and providing them with meager pittances(like the socalled "Lunatic" mode.)

Then just treat My Unit as any other generic character, and ignore casual mode. It's not that hard. And they aren't 'ignoring' veteran fans. I don't see them making each mode like casual mode. Besides, nothing has been said of higher difficulties. At least wait for July 15th when we can look into all the games details before you complain/troll (same thing.)

And another thing, your laying your claims on the basis that A.) this new game actually has anything good to attract veterans and B.) that nintendo will not make any good innovations but provide us with this garbage or nothing at all. Just look at the past games if you want to see my point.

A.) It's a remake of a good game that had not made it to America before. I'd say that would attract veteran players. Or at least not the butt-hurt ones. It's a whole lot better than playing the clunky SNES version...

B.) 1.) You realize Nintendo doesn't make the games, right?

2.) There haven't been any good innovations since FE5 (though I would argue that FE10 had some, but that's

irrelevant,) and you are just now complaining? Or are you this trolling annoying with each new

release?

3.) I'm looking and I don't see your point.

A beter marketing tactic would be to make a sort-of-easy mode ( like in radiant dawn) that is just easy enough not to be disheartening. That way, nintendo does not have a nearly as great possibility of losing their veteran fans. And, they can raise the price a little bit to make up for the abscence of the hoard of yipping "casual players".

Why, when normal mode is easy enough, and the main complaint about Fire Emblem by non-fans is the fact that your units die when they are killed (which is fun to say out loud)? Nintendo's IS's only concern should be losing butt-hurt veterans that don't know what the word 'ignore' means. Most veterans would rather play normal than easy anyway, so the trouble of programming an entirely new difficulty is stupid when they can give both the casuals what they want and veterans what they want. Besides, from a marketing standpoint, which your brain cannot seem to wrap itself around, making the game appealing to more people is a whole lot better of a marketing strategy and quelling the ramblings of butt-hurt veterans. And raising the price on a game that won't be in high demand to begin with? Do you know anything about basic economics? You officially have no right to comment on marketing strategies.

I'm half-expecting the reply back to be "I'm 12 years old, and what is this?"

[Sophius]

Actually I'm 13 and all I'm trying to say is that A.) there is a strong possibility that the modes createod for veterans are likely going to be half baked and B.) that instead of wasting time remakng games with a bunch of useless gimmicks they should make an entirely new game!

Also another point, Nintendo is creating these games from the standpoint of "lets make money" rather than "let's make a good game".

And if we look at a variety of practices, people who do things because they like it are better at it than the people who does it for money(this is especially apparent in the music industry)and usually make more money too. Then, The "let's make money" mentality leads into the "a recent poll shows kids like dinosaurs so lets add dinosaurs into the game" which is what IS(thanks for correcting me, I woke up with a migraine) is doing for the casual ninnies.

If Nintendo just looked at what would make a good game than what would do best in marketing, the game would gross much more.

[NoNameAtAll]

Actually I'm 13 and all I'm trying to say is that A.) there is a strong possibility that the modes createod for veterans are likely going to be half baked and B.) that instead of wasting time remakng games with a bunch of useless gimmicks they should make an entirely new game!

Remaking a game that hasn't been released internationally, I might add. You understand?

Also another point, Nintendo is creating these games from the standpoint of "lets make money" rather than "let's make a good game".

And if we look at a variety of practices, people who do things because they like it are better at it than the people who does it for money(this is especially apparent in the music industry)and usually make more money too. Then, The "let's make money" mentality leads into the "a recent poll shows kids like dinosaurs so lets add dinosaurs into the game" which is what IS(thanks for correcting me, I woke up with a migraine) is doing for the casual ninnies.

Yeah...uh...Capcom also added an Easy Mode to Mega Man 10. You know what that did? It had no effect on Normal or Hard Mode.

Also, Nintendo doesn't make Fire Emblem. Intelligent Systems does. Plus, the casual mode allows a wider audience to grasp this.

If Nintendo just looked at what would make a good game than what would do best in marketing, the game would gross much more.

No it wouldn't. It would drive off new customers and make LESS money. And when Nintendo sees something doesn't sell, then you know what happens? The same kind of thing that happened with the MOTHER/Earthbound series.

In short, you're 13 and you're whining about stuff you don't fully understand. Come back when you have a grasp of the basics of economics.

Edited June 4, 2010 by NoNameAtAll

[Narga_Rocks]

Actually I'm 13 and all I'm trying to say is that A.) there is a strong possibility that the modes createod for veterans are likely going to be half baked and B.) that instead of wasting time remakng games with a bunch of useless gimmicks they should make an entirely new game!

Also another point, Nintendo is creating these games from the standpoint of "lets make money" rather than "let's make a good game".

And if we look at a variety of practices, people who do things because they like it are better at it than the people who does it for money(this is especially apparent in the music industry)and usually make more money too. Then, The "let's make money" mentality leads into the "a recent poll shows kids like dinosaurs so lets add dinosaurs into the game" which is what IS(thanks for correcting me, I woke up with a migraine) is doing for the casual ninnies.

If Nintendo just looked at what would make a good game than what would do best in marketing, the game would gross much more.

A good game to you is different than a good game to most of the people that would buy the game. The hardcore veteran market is very very small. Appealing to everybody else isn't "let's make money", it's more "let's try to not lose money". It takes money to make a game. If you want them to continue making games, I'd recommend being happy when they do things that will let them get back at least what it cost.

[Ike-Mike]

Actually I'm 13

Actually that explains a lot.

Everyone who's older than that and of a sound mind know that this "going casual" thing is actually Nintendo going back to their roots.

[Mr. Francis York Morgan]

Actually that explains a lot.

Everyone who's older than that and of a sound mind know that this "going casual" thing is actually Nintendo going back to their roots.

Please explain to me the significance of the link you posted in context with this thread. Because I am baffled as all hell right now.

[Ike-Mike]

I was responding to Sophius's notion that things such as unit customization and Casual Mode are terrible and that Nintendo's 'recent' venture for 'casual' gamers is destroying gaming.

[Sophius]

Another thing is that i wouldn't mind the casual mechanics if they A.) weren't advertised as the main feature and B.) they didn't nerf the features for more advanced players to do it!

Also, you are making your claims on the basis that there are only two types of players, "casuals" and "veterans". When acually there are:

Hard lined veterans: thos ewho have played th games so many thime they bother with turncounts

veterans: those who enjoy playing on more challenging difficulties

intermediates: neither veterans nor casuals

semi-casual: players who aren't as into the game as veterans but don't share thecasual mentality

Casual: looks at a game game " ooooooooooooo, pretty colors. shiiiiiiiiiinyyy."

These are the Aproximite percentages of each group of potential buyers.

Hard lines: 5%

Veterans:15%

intermediates:22%

Semi-casuals:7%

casuals:51%

The casual potential buyers make up only small percentage more than others

In all likelyhood, assuming we are talking about a fairly balenced game such as FE7(not fe 7 but similar) 1%-3% of the top 3 player groups, 3%-5% of the sebmicasual player groups, and 38%-47% of the casual will not buy the game at a reasonable price. Meaning there is a fairly good likely hood that over 50% of the potential buyers will purchase the game.

Also, you are only counting what IS will make in the first few months of being released. If you make the game casual oriented, the casual players will give the game decent but moderately senseless reviews while the veterans will give the game an ok-poor review. which in the long run deters players of all groups from buying the game. Where as, make the game oriented to veterans, and you have a bunch of players giving the game excellent reviews who sound like they know what they are talking about, while you have a couple of ninny casuals senselessly rave about how bad the game, making a reader doubtful on such a reviews credibility(mighti I also add that such reviews will be far less than the ammout of negative veteran reviews if the game were casual oriented due to less casuals picking up the game). This will influence a large quantity of people from all categories picking up the game due to its good reviews, meaning in the long run nintendo grosses more.

You are being highly superficial in ypour reasoning.

(I apologize if my numbers are a bit random, they're based on the views from various communities).

Edited June 4, 2010 by Sophius

[Rakath]

Sophius... just *facepalm*

Nintendo broadening the game's scope to include more people does not mean they will preclude details of importance to the old faithfuls of the game.

The only changes you HAD to deal with in Shadow Dragon (compared to FE1):

- General overhaul of the Class system (Promotions, LV30 for non-promoting units, loss of Dismount, retooled stat system). None of these were actually a bad thing.

- Reclassing which you can ignore if you want to follow the game's standard design.

- Prf weapons for Marth and Caeda. Which you can NOT USE if you so desire.

- Slightly buffed storyline with Prologue. Not really damaging.

- New characters, which can be IGNORED if you don't want to access the Gaidens.

None of these had a detrimental effect on the game, and increased the sales of the game if they were to just 'rerelease FE1'.

We don't know how My Unit will work. We don't know if its a required aspect of the game. We don't know how it will effect the whole plot. And, if you really want to, you can imagine the My Unit as JUST ANOTHER CHARACTER. It isn't like Fire Emblem lacks random recruits. Name him Bob, give him a less than impressive set of aspects, make him a class you don't hate, and move on.

We already have been told that Casual Mode isn't going to upset Classic Mode. You're really just looking for ways to take shots at the game when we don't know everything. Wait till July, and the game comes out, and we get a full report from someone who buys the Japanese game. THEN you can complain how the game 'ruined it for the hardcore gamers'

...Which I doubt it'll do as it isn't likely they will make it so you can't Solo the game with a single character.

[Violet]

Actually that explains a lot.

Everyone who's older than that and of a sound mind know that this "going casual" thing is actually Nintendo going back to their roots.

Thank you, sometimes I feel like the only one who realised this. The Wii era really reminds me of the NES era a lot.

[Dat Nick]

To be fair, I really can't see this working well at all from a mechanical point of view: People are going to shun the skl and lck stats as if they don't mean anything (because they don't in the FEDS mechanism) and just give their guys a crapload of HP/Str/Spd/Def, moreso than the rest of the playable cast.

[Interceptor]

I think that the "background" system is probably an attempt to deal with this. Also, you never know, they could back off the FEDS calculations and go back to something a little more like the modern FE games.

[Dat Nick]

Really doubt that's going to be the case, although it would be nice to see avoid matter without being broken.

[Emblem Lugh]

Another thing is that i wouldn't mind the casual mechanics if they A.) weren't advertised as the main feature and B.) they didn't nerf the features for more advanced players to do it!

I haven't seen any advertising here in the US. And the Japanese haven't even had time to really advertise. It's been three days! You're making obviously baseless claims. Besides, if I were IS, I would've advertised that aspect straight away to make sure most of the gaming audience knows of its existence. Also, I'd love to know what is being 'nerfed'. I'll ask you, since you've already seem to have played it.

Also, you are making your claims on the basis that there are only two types of players, "casuals" and "veterans". When acually there are:

Hard lined veterans: thos ewho have played th games so many thime they bother with turncounts

veterans: those who enjoy playing on more challenging difficulties

intermediates: neither veterans nor casuals

semi-casual: players who aren't as into the game as veterans but don't share thecasual mentality

Casual: looks at a game game " ooooooooooooo, pretty colors. shiiiiiiiiiinyyy."

NO. Here is casual: "Hey, this game looks kinda cool. I think I'll pick it up and try it out!" Casuals are is NO way retarded, unlike your understanding of economics. And there is no "casual mentality" other than than "Oh, you play video games? I do that sometimes, as well." I have no idea where your preconceived notion that casual gamers are as mentality competent as a toothpick came from. I'm still wondering what's wrong with appealing to casual gamers when long-time fans are not being compromised.

Besides, I think including other groups between the extremes kills YOUR argument. Thanks for bringing it up.

These are the Aproximite percentages of each group of potential buyers.

Hard lines: 5%

Veterans:15%

intermediates:22%

Semi-casuals:7%

casuals:51%

Where the heck did you get those numbers? The demographics for high-school students that take AP classes? I'd love a source.

The casual potential buyers make up only small percentage more than others

PFFFTTTT BWAHAHA

Do you realize that the casual potential buyers being a low count is the entire reason behind the (obviously too carefully named) 'casual' mode? The veterans of the series are not the entire meat of the profit IS (or any company for that matter) gets. They have to and are willing to appeal to the 'casuals', while (I sound like a broken record by this point) NOT in any way compromising already-fans. Also, I love how this statement contradicts one of your prior statements by ignoring the rest of these "player types".

In all likelyhood, assuming we are talking about a fairly balenced game such as FE7(not fe 7 but similar) 1%-3% of the top 3 player groups, 3%-5% of the sebmicasual player groups, and 38%-47% of the casual will not buy the game at a reasonable price. Meaning there is a fairly good likely hood that over 50% of the potential buyers will purchase the game.

This is why prices lower over time. Those willing to buy it at the initial cost will. You are able to buy games after their release date, you know, and I doubt everyone in the gaming market will be keeping tabs on FE12's release date. Most will discover the game perhaps weeks or months later. Also, I love how you talk "reasonable prices" when you spoke of raising prices in a different post.

Also, you are only counting what IS will make in the first few months of being released. If you make the game casual oriented, the casual players will give the game decent but moderately senseless reviews while the veterans will give the game an ok-poor review. which in the long run deters players of all groups from buying the game. Where as, make the game oriented to veterans, and you have a bunch of players giving the game excellent reviews who sound like they know what they are talking about, while you have a couple of ninny casuals senselessly rave about how bad the game, making a reader doubtful on such a reviews credibility(mighti I also add that such reviews will be far less than the ammout of negative veteran reviews if the game were casual oriented due to less casuals picking up the game). This will influence a large quantity of people from all categories picking up the game due to its good reviews, meaning in the long run nintendo grosses more.

Are you the type to go to gamefaqs to look up game reviews? Try looking at professional reviews like everyone else (Famistu is a good example.) And just to mention, they and other professionals gave Shadow Dragon (a game you obviously seem to hate) a relatively high score.

Appealing to casual gamers does NOT make the game casual oriented!!! It makes it more "for everyone". Only a "veteran" like you would go raving mad because they added a casual mode (which again, you can ignore.) I haven't seen a single negative post about casual mode until you came along.

You are being highly superficial in ypour reasoning.

(I apologize if my numbers are a bit random, they're based on the views from various communities).

You are being highly ignorant and childish in your reasoning. Come back when you grow up and throw your "dis gaem iz onry 4 teh vetz" mentality away.

[Dat Nick]

I'm willing to risk a warn for this, because people really need to get the message.

[Ike-Mike]

Hard lines: 5%

Veterans:15%

intermediates:22%

Semi-casuals:7%

casuals:51%

Wuurgh ...

There are just gamers!

Bblader has a point, although Sophius disliking unit customization because of it being there to distract us from the game being "dumbed down" according to him is somewhat related to the thread at hand and I'm giving him the benifit of doubt that he's just saying his opinion.

Edited June 4, 2010 by Ike-Mike

[Rodykitty]

I seriously don't think they'll let you choose your own bases. There will be optimal personalities + class, but that'll still be much more reasonable than being able to minmax by plugging numbers manually.

[Don Draper]

To be fair, I really can't see this working well at all from a mechanical point of view: People are going to shun the skl and lck stats as if they don't mean anything (because they don't in the FEDS mechanism) and just give their guys a crapload of HP/Str/Spd/Def, moreso than the rest of the playable cast.

You finally get an opportunity to "get intimate" with Minerva and Rena in a videogame and you're bashing it bblade? :P

Edited June 4, 2010 by Ari Gold

[Violet]

I seriously don't think they'll let you choose your own bases. There will be optimal personalities + class, but that'll still be much more reasonable than being able to minmax by plugging numbers manually.

I'll be happy if the best stat combination is caused by Purple Afro Eyepatch Man, because all the stat freaks will be forced to use him.

[grandjackal]

You finally get an opportunity to "get intimate" with Miredy and Rena in a videogame and you're bashing it bblade? :P

You mispelled Minerva.

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

I think we have ourselves a troll here.

Blatant stupidity =/= Trolling