Anonymous Mafia - Game Over

[Ochako Uraraka]

That could simply mean that the subbed in player is better at looking townie than the old Sundown. I'm not quite sure that we should discount what the old Sundown just because of that.

No objections.

Check the D1 votals before Asparagus died. Notice who his vote was on? That was my doing. This is why I consider myself negative utility. Unless the rest of the town has amazing roles (don't answer this), I'm not sure why my role and a lynch bomb would exist.

[Cú Chulainn]

Okay, got in and finished catching up and this and the final votals for the day

Fuck it.

##Slay: Asparagus

No time to write flavor with deadline winding down, but:

Asparagus, Town Doctor, has been munched!

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to hammer.

makes me think Asparagus was killed by Yoshi, but what doesn't make any sense is why Yoshi would give up and allow the lynch on herself

and another thing I do not get is what the roles of CM and Yoshi actually are

I am thinking Yoshi had the day kill plus enabler, but I have no clues on CM.

[Cú Chulainn]

as a continuation to the previous post,

Lets NOT lynch me. If you don't believe me, investigate me tonight. Why should they believe you Asparagus? other than you not being shady, like me..

I would also like to point that that there is most likely some kind of a lawyer or framer or both that could make affect the results of cops, which most likely exists.

YOSHIMI AND VOLT ARE SCUM.

and last but not least, I think our dead doctor wanted to go after Volt

##Vote: Volt

[Olivier]

Quick post because I'm going to work.

I still think that Sundown is lying about his role. But IF he's legit, he shouldn't be opposed to being tested. Here's what I think we should do: Build a lynch wagon to L-1 (or L-2 if the fucking mayor is on the wagon. If that's the case, we need to know.) with town reads, and have tails persuade the scummiest person to hammer. They don't, I'll hammer and it sucks to be them because I think they get godkilled.

So, if that were to be the case, well, I would want one of Volt or VDC to be the hammer. Especially VDC after trying to tell me that sundown's antics are excusable.

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

okay then, if you want to prove my claim, I'll start you off:

##Vote: Sundown

discuss it people

[Kamina]

Quick post because I'm going to work.

I still think that Sundown is lying about his role. But IF he's legit, he shouldn't be opposed to being tested. Here's what I think we should do: Build a lynch wagon to L-1 (or L-2 if the fucking mayor is on the wagon. If that's the case, we need to know.) with town reads, and have tails persuade the scummiest person to hammer. They don't, I'll hammer and it sucks to be them because I think they get godkilled.

So, if that were to be the case, well, I would want one of Volt or VDC to be the hammer. Especially VDC after trying to tell me that sundown's antics are excusable.

this guy

okay then, if you want to prove my claim, I'll start you off:

##Vote: Sundown

discuss it people

we've got policies for this, right?

new town list (old one sucks):

Shotta

Perseus

tails

Sparrrow?

?????:

ILoveTangerine

[All Might]

Tails, if all your role does is be a day Persuader, it may not be most useful role in the world but I don't see how it's dangerous? Also it seems that it's an active role so you can just idle if you think it's harmful. When you said dangerous I thought you meant like 'could start involuntarily killing Townies' dangerous.

Hm, will go back and reread D1 in light of Colin's flip, but he wasn't the focus of that much attention as I recall.

My problem with original!Sundown's play was that he had almost no content that wasn't self-defense. We'll see if the new!Sundown fixes this problem.

Letters Dude: I saw you reading the thread several times at the end of the day yesterday, but you never posted, even while the lynch was being decided and general craziness happened. Why so lurky?

and last but not least, I think our dead doctor wanted to go after Volt

##Vote: Volt

Evidently. But I suspect his reason was that at the time I had not yet switched my vote to Yoshimi. And my reason for THAT was that it took me a while to actually figure out what the heck was going on. Which may be stupidity on my part, but stupid =/= scum.

@Perseus: let's not start hammering Sundown before there's even been a chance for everyone to post and discuss. That would be a waste of a day phase. I also want to see how new!Sundown plays.

Currently want some answers from ##Vote: Letters Dude

[Kamina]

Letters Dude: I saw you reading the thread several times at the end of the day yesterday, but you never posted, even while the lynch was being decided and general craziness happened. Why so lurky?

to be fair, i should probably answer this

i wasn't actually reading the thread, even though i was probably on my comp with some page open, but i had just seen TDKR, and reading stuff about that took priority

[Ochako Uraraka]

Quick post because I'm going to work.

I still think that Sundown is lying about his role. But IF he's legit, he shouldn't be opposed to being tested. Here's what I think we should do: Build a lynch wagon to L-1 (or L-2 if the fucking mayor is on the wagon. If that's the case, we need to know.) with town reads, and have tails persuade the scummiest person to hammer. They don't, I'll hammer and it sucks to be them because I think they get godkilled.

So, if that were to be the case, well, I would want one of Volt or VDC to be the hammer. Especially VDC after trying to tell me that sundown's antics are excusable.

That's one way to make me useful.

Tails, if all your role does is be a day Persuader, it may not be most useful role in the world but I don't see how it's dangerous? Also it seems that it's an active role so you can just idle if you think it's harmful. When you said dangerous I thought you meant like 'could start involuntarily killing Townies' dangerous.

Hm, will go back and reread D1 in light of Colin's flip, but he wasn't the focus of that much attention as I recall.

My problem with original!Sundown's play was that he had almost no content that wasn't self-defense. We'll see if the new!Sundown fixes this problem.

Letters Dude: I saw you reading the thread several times at the end of the day yesterday, but you never posted, even while the lynch was being decided and general craziness happened. Why so lurky?

Evidently. But I suspect his reason was that at the time I had not yet switched my vote to Yoshimi. And my reason for THAT was that it took me a while to actually figure out what the heck was going on. Which may be stupidity on my part, but stupid =/= scum.

@Perseus: let's not start hammering Sundown before there's even been a chance for everyone to post and discuss. That would be a waste of a day phase. I also want to see how new!Sundown plays.

Currently want some answers from ##Vote: Letters Dude

I take away someone's vote. This is dangerous, both for discussion's sake and for voting patterns. It's impossible to analyze a vote by someone who's been persuaded, and it only makes itself apparent when Prims posts votals. Voting is the town's way of eliminating mafia; thus, persuasion, when used wrong, is very damaging.

The general consensus of Colin was that she was town. The most noteworthy vote on her was a very early one by Trafalgar.

I don't like how passive the rest of this post sounds, except for the part directed at Computer Serial Number.

[C. C.]

i am disappointed that so far nobody has tried to make a vote analysis of yoshimi's actions since the flip. i distinctly remembered something the good colin mochrie, rest his soul, said before he passed, and think it is certainly worth a second look. nagivating the changing tides of the votals and trying to see how revealed scum fits into the picture could prove useful.

Sparrow: So you think that Yoshimi is bussing her buddy? Why would Yoshimi "opportunistically bus" her scumbuddy? That... defeats the point of busing.

i am not going to quote all of the votals, because anybody can just iso prims to see that.

post 114 is the first prims votal where yoshimi moved off of his initial random vote on tails. i also find it interesting that just after he left tails is when the giant tails wagon of '12 began, in the course of less than a page. not sure if useless trivia or not here. the yoshimi switch was to volttackle, a seeming change from one random vote to the next.

post 158 is next, with the post that prompted the sparrrow/colins interaction above, with yoshimi sidling on over to lay a vote down on sundown. he was feeling rising pressure from asparagus and sparrrow here, but could have easily chosen any of letters, tails, asparagus, or sundown to keep the heat off.

by post 215 yoshimi has switched to eternlty, which is interesting, as it brings the sundown wagon back down to the rest of the pack rather than leaving him in the lead. not sure if this was related to trying to maintain town cover and avoid the repeated accusations by sparrrow, or if sundown is actually scumbuddy and there is ulterior motive for keeping him alive. his choice here left all top votes tied at three. if he's chosen asparagus that would have propelled our good doctor into the lead.

posts 230 and 231 show yoshimi rising to the top of the lynch chart, giving the reason for his fakeclaim in p238. from there, the rest is history and a total absolute clusterfuck to try to get a read out of.

i want to hear input from everyone else regarding this. do the wagons yoshimi was landing on more likely or less likely to hide scum? not voting on any of them until we have more discussion on this fact.

in the meantime, i will

##Vote NE93B27J3U

"i wasn't actually reading the thread, my browser just happened to be there" is a terrible excuse for lurking and you should feel terrible. either you are around at phase end, or you aren't. you don't half ass it.

[Kamina]

oh by the way, i can't be lynched today

[Kamina]

"i wasn't actually reading the thread, my browser just happened to be there" is a terrible excuse for lurking and you should feel terrible. either you are around at phase end, or you aren't. you don't half ass it.

Read what I wrote again?

[Prims]

NE93B27J3U (3) - Vanilla Diet Coke, VoltTackle, Trafalgar

Sundown (2) - NE93B27J3U, Sundown

VoltTackle (1) - ILoveTangerine

Not Voting - Daniel Craig, Eternlty, Perseus, Shotta, Sparrrow, tails1996

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to hammer. You have about 54 hours left in the day (countdown).

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

oh by the way, i can't be lynched today

I hate people who say this

stop that

##Unvote

##Vote: Letters

don't believe that claim for a second

you didn't exactly contribute much D1 either, except for fluffing about and jumping on opportunistic wagons

you're doing that thing that scum does

[Ochako Uraraka]

Lynchproof meet lynch bomb? Just how much bastardry is in this game? Sundown, can you comment on D1 instead of jumping on wagons?

I'm not quoting that wall by Trafalgar. Have a link instead. Post 158's link takes me somewhere weird.

I see a refusal to touch anything associated with Yoshimi's voting, followed by a wagon jump. This feels very, very wrong.

##Vote: Trafalgar

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

already did, tails

[All Might]

I take away someone's vote. This is dangerous, both for discussion's sake and for voting patterns. It's impossible to analyze a vote by someone who's been persuaded, and it only makes itself apparent when Prims posts votals. Voting is the town's way of eliminating mafia; thus, persuasion, when used wrong, is very damaging.

So you could idle? My confusion was over why you felt you had to die to protect Town from your role.

There's also something I want to clarify--did you kill Asparagus or not? During end of D1 I thought you had but then I believe you said you didn't...in which case some kind of day kill apparently exists.

oh by the way, i can't be lynched today

If this is because of your role then we have claims of 'something that can't be lynched today' and a lynchbomb. Two roles that screw with the lynch seems excessive.

I'm undecided on your lurking; I prefer not to have real-life busy-ness be a game factor because it's outside the scope of the game, but I recall a game where Obviam survived as lurkscum by claiming he was playing video games while lurking in IRC.

You also haven't contributed anything yet today and contributed little D1, so there's some overall active lurkyness going on as well.

However, Sundown's quick jump onto you seems like an attempt to get attention off of himself. I think you both look scummy at this point.

@Trafalgar: listing information without giving your own opinions might as well be a list post. It makes you look active without actually contributing much. What do YOU think about Yoshimi's votes?

My own thoughts on Yoshimi: his flipflop on Sundown may be significant; he first said he never saw Sundown as rolefishing, but then when votes started piling up on Sundown he did a 180 and voted him after his iso. Could be that Yoshimi decided it would look like buddying if he failed to agree that Sundown was scummy.

Undecided as to his Eternity vote; it was late in the day after Sundown's claim. Could be seen as an opportunistic vote on a Townie; for Eternity to be a scumbuddy Yoshimi would have had to be certain others wouldn't start going after him because Yoshimi was the third vote on that wagon. Then again, after fakeclaiming, he switched over to Vanilla; given that right after his claim Eternity became a possible alternate lynch target, perhaps he wanted to get his vote off of a scumbuddy. If Eternity is Town then unvoting him at that point seems foolish, since Vanilla was not that likely to get lynched at the time and Yoshimi's best chance of saving himself would be to get somebody else lynched. So why not Eternity, since others were suspicious of him? Makes me lean slightly scum on Eternity, but it's a weak read.

Final noteworthy thing from iso is that Yoshimi had a habit of agreeing with people easily. Me, Sparrow, Colin, Aspagarus...lots of backing off and agreeing.

Currently would agree to a lynch on Letters or Sundown, Trafalgar's last post has made me somewhat suspicious of him as well.

[Olivier]

woah woah why is there a bandwagon on letters. This isn't d1 where we lynch people because they fail at being townie, this is d2 where we use the flip to hang people. Take Volt, for example:

Okay. I am thinking about this, and although I'm not sure why you're being so, eh, nonspecific in your reasoning here, I can only assume you are Town because scum would never start shouting at people to lynch the actual doctor right at phase end. And in that case I would also assume you have a very good reason for saying Yoshimi is scum. But for you to be right, Yoshimi would have to be scum fakeclaiming doctor, which would make no sense. I am not sure what to do with this situation.

This is probably what asp would have cited if she were to explain why she thought you were scum. This is what one would call, 'waffling', which is generally considered a scumtell in times of crisis when explicitly stated. So yeah, I am very suspicious of him right now. But more to the point, if we check the flip and Yosh's actions, we see that he was trying to draw attention away from the sundown wagon with his announcement AND his day kill, assuming that was scum. In the former, it came about 20 minutes after tails volunteered to hammer Sundown. The latter case, well, one can see for themself the circumstances. It only goes to further support my belief that Sundown is full of shit, but moving along.

Anyways, Volt's relation to this is that if one would Iso them, they're trying to change the SD lynch because of the lynch bomb claim, or so they say. I'm starting to think that Volt is lying, as well.

Now, back to your scheduled programming.

I hate people who say this

stop that

##Unvote

##Vote: Letters

don't believe that claim for a second

you didn't exactly contribute much D1 either, except for fluffing about and jumping on opportunistic wagons

you're doing that thing that scum does

The bold that isn't the vote is hilariously ironic, considering we could say this verbatim to you.

But uh, in short, guys, that letters wagon is just as bad if not worse than the tails wagon (+scumcred for everyone on it). Can we please go somewheres else?

[Olivier]

to elaborate on why the wagon is bad (I got off track, sorry), you have to realize that lurking isn't necessarily a scumtell. Active lurking, on the other hand...

Also, sundown is a massive hypocrite seeing as they spent all of day one playing smoke and mirrors to justify their fishing FMPOV, whereas Letters at least RVS'ed effectively.

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

However, Sundown's quick jump onto you seems like an attempt to get attention off of himself. I think you both look scummy at this point.

quick

difference between this post (already explained why I didn't like Letters) and this post (where I voted him/her) is about 18 hours

how the heck is that quick

The bold that isn't the vote is hilariously ironic, considering we could say this verbatim to you.

that's fine, but am I not allowed to have my opinions on such a thing? it seems like you are trying to stifle me. if I didn't see you as town otherwise, I'd jump on you right now

[Olivier]

that's fine, but am I not allowed to have my opinions on such a thing? it seems like you are trying to stifle me. if I didn't see you as town otherwise, I'd jump on you right now

I'm just saying that it makes you look worse and worse, and, considering that now letters is apparently halfway to being hammered, I read it as a scum counterwagon.

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

whatever.

##Unvote

##Vote: Sundown

I got subbed into an impossible situation to get out of. I'm bound to be lynched anyway, so why wait?

[Kamina]

srs if yr attacking me based on play style, then you need to learn how to scum hunt better.

and we're still lynching sundown today. VT or VDC can hammer.

and i have not claimed; I merely said i can't be lynched today

[All Might]

This isn't d1 where we lynch people because they fail at being townie, this is d2 where we use the flip to hang people.

Given that 'failing at being Townie' could also be described as 'acting like scum' I consider it a valid reason to lynch on any day.

Wrt to my 'waffling' at end of D1: yeah, when Asparagus suddenly started shouting that Yoshimi was scum, I was super confused and didn't understand what was going on. Then I realized that maybe he was counterclaiming, but I still didn't understand why he wasn't just saying that and I also did not understand why scum would ever fakeclaim as doctor unless they knew there was no doctor. I still can't believe that Yoshimi actually did that, because doctor is such a common role.

So yes, I floundered around a bit, because I had no idea what the heck was going on.

Anyways, Volt's relation to this is that if one would Iso them, they're trying to change the SD lynch because of the lynch bomb claim, or so they say. I'm starting to think that Volt is lying, as well.

May I ask what specifically you think I'm lying about? Unless you mean my reasons for not wanting to lynch Sundown D1. For the record I will say again: lynching a lynch bomb claim is risky, and if better targets exist I would choose them over a possible lynchbomb. At the time, I thought Asparagus was scummier.

to elaborate on why the wagon is bad (I got off track, sorry), you have to realize that lurking isn't necessarily a scumtell. Active lurking, on the other hand.

I feel that Letters has done both. And lurking in the thread while lynch shenanigans are going on is, if not always a scum move, at least suspicious.

that's fine, but am I not allowed to have my opinions on such a thing? it seems like you are trying to stifle me. if I didn't see you as town otherwise, I'd jump on you right now

This seems similar to the previous Sundown player's defenses and it does nothing to make me less suspicious of you. And self-voting, while not an alignment tell, is bad play imo.

[Olivier]

Given that 'failing at being Townie' could also be described as 'acting like scum' I consider it a valid reason to lynch on any day.

Wrt to my 'waffling' at end of D1: yeah, when Asparagus suddenly started shouting that Yoshimi was scum, I was super confused and didn't understand what was going on. Then I realized that maybe he was counterclaiming, but I still didn't understand why he wasn't just saying that and I also did not understand why scum would ever fakeclaim as doctor unless they knew there was no doctor. I still can't believe that Yoshimi actually did that, because doctor is such a common role.

So yes, I floundered around a bit, because I had no idea what the heck was going on.

May I ask what specifically you think I'm lying about? Unless you mean my reasons for not wanting to lynch Sundown D1. For the record I will say again: lynching a lynch bomb claim is risky, and if better targets exist I would choose them over a possible lynchbomb. At the time, I thought Asparagus was scummier.

I feel that Letters has done both. And lurking in the thread while lynch shenanigans are going on is, if not always a scum move, at least suspicious.

Bold: Lying might be bad WC, as I used it to mean that you seem to be scummy and that you are overly afraid of a lynch bomb. Which I still believe to be the case, albeit to a lesser degree.

Underline: I strongly disagree with you here, seeing as he doesn't jump to the thread every time he's mentioned.

Also

@ Italics: As I said, I think Yoshi did his whole d1 clusterfuck to divert the lynch from Sundown, which doesn't make sense if Sundown is legit. If they were legitimate, Yoshimi would've had no reason to go and dayvig asp, seeing as a double-mislynch + a night kill, a day vig, and all town vigs disabled for one scum far outweighs just two kills. Like, there was 17 minutes left in the day phase, with people evidently active and a lynch in place. All he had to do is wait it out. The fact that he chose to act suggests to me that Sundown is a mafia power role, which means we should lynch him today.

Sidenote: If Sundown isn't scum by some miracle of god I hope the host rips Yosh a new one for that move. And definitely me for tunneling.