HM 114 turns

[Chiki]

I think I'm 99% confident this time that there are no turns to cut at all.

Team:

Ike: B Oscar, B Lethe, C Titania
Marcia: A Tanith, B Kieran
Oscar: A Kieran, B Ike
Kieran: A Oscar, B Marcia
Ilyana: A Mia, B Mordecai
Mia: A Ilyana, B Rhys
Tanith: A Marcia, B Reyson
Mist: A Mordecai, C Rolf, C Titania
Calill

People give me a lot of crap for my team choices, especially in not using Titania after a certain point and having 2 siege tome users. A common misunderstanding people have is that I claim Mia and Ilyana is the only option possible to get this turncount. No, a person can get the same turncount with the same strategies by using Boyd and Soren over Mia and Ilyana--I simply prefer Mia and Ilyana due to them being a decent amount more reliable than the alternatives. Mia and Ilyana's A support give both +15 hit, which helps out a lot when Ilyana needs to hit enemies with Bolting (which only has 65 hit). It helps out against 22's boss and 27's boss, making her more reliable than Calill. It's also the reason why I prefer Ilyana over Soren, due to their support. Yes, Tormod has Celerity, but there isn't a single part in the game where I have needed it.

One can ask me why I'm wasting bonus experience on an extra Mage when Calill can accomplish all the same things Ilyana can; but using Ilyana along with Calill is incredibly helpful for both 22 and 25. Calill needs 23 magic just to 2HKO the boss in 22 with Bolting, and using Ilyana along with Calill means that I don't have to give any bexp to Calill at all. There are also multiple enemies that can avoid getting killed by forged Silver Sword Ike in 25, and Calill + Ilyana make an excellent pair to kill them together. There's no question that training 2 Mages is the smart thing to do.

Turns:

P: 4 turns   1: 2 turns   2: 4 turns   3: 3 turns
4: 2 turns   5: 6 turns   6: 4 turns   7: 4 turns
8: 8 turns   9: 6 turns   10: 3 turns  11: 3 turns
12: 2 turns  13: 7 turns  14: 2 turns  15: 2 turns
16: 4 turns  17: 15 turns 18: 6 turns  19: 1 turn
20: 2 turns  21: 4 turns  22: 1 turn   23: 3 turns
24: 3 turns  25: 3 turns  26: 2 turns  27: 4 turns
28: 2 turns  29: 2 turns

Chapter 9: I thought I wouldn't have enough bonus experience to promote Mia and have promoted Marcia by 11, but I was wrong. Marcia doesn't need to promote for 11 if you have another promoted unit.
Chapter 26: Simple 2-turn. Mist gets shoved 6 times on turn 1 to Rescue Marcia carrying Ike. Ike gets dropped on turn 1 next to Marcia. Muarim Smites Ike on turn 2 after getting Rescued by Mist. Marcia kills the boss with a crit. Ike seizes.
Chapter 28: Almost impossible chapter to 2-turn, and I think I figured out the only strategy possible for this playthrough. Tanith has to die on turn 1 in order to be able to drop Ilyana. Ilyana needs to be able to kill 2 enemies (a dragon and a tiger) on the enemy phase.

If you want to see the rest of the chapter strategies, look in the spoiler tag below.

Chapter 1: Oscar and Titania rescue-take-drop Ike on turn 1 while Boyd tries to kill an enemy. Titania kills the boss, Oscar takes the Seraph Robe and Boyd takes the Steel Sword. Ike seizes.
Chapter 2: Oscar waits a little to the northwest to get some experience from enemies, while Ike, Boyd and Rhys charge east to get some experience. Oscar then helps out the trio on turn 2 while waiting for Titania. Titania charges to the boss area while the others get the remaining kills.
Chapter 3: Titania, Ike, Shinon and Gatrie charge to the boss area on turn 1. Ike gets the Hand Axe from the warrior and trades with Titania. On turn 3, Titania attacks the boss with the Hand Axe and kills him on the enemy phase. Gatrie gets the Elixir from the house and Ike talks to Marcia.
Chapter 4: TItania charges with the Iron Axe and kills the boss with the Hand Axe on turn 2. Ike tries to get some kills with Gatrie.
Chapter 5: Oscar, Boyd, Ike and Shinon go west while Titania and Gatrie take the south side by themselves. Titania gets the boss kill.
Chapter 6: Titania, Oscar and Ike charge down to the boss area from the left while Boyd tries to kill some soldiers. Oscar gets the boss kill.
Chapter 7: TItania clears the east side in 2 turns, then helps Ike and Boyd in the west side to recruit Ilyana. Oscar takes the south side all by himself and eventually gets the boss kill with Titania's help.
Chapter 8: Get Mia as much exp as possible.
Chapter 9: Mia, Rhys and Boyd shove Ike a total of 6 times on turns 5 and 6. Mia has to be promoted to be able to shove Ike. Titania weakens the boss for Ilyana to kill.
Chapter 10: TItania, Lethe, Oscar all go to the escape tile carrying Ike. Marcia recruits Kieran by unlocking the door. Not much happens in this chapter.. Ilyana and Mia try to get some kills from a soldier and some reinforcements, but they can only manage one or two.
Chapter 11: Titania, Kieran and Oscar charge to the boss area while Marcia rescue-take-drops Mia on turn 2. Mia kills the knight guarding the Arrive tile and Marcia arrives after getting shoved 4 times total on turns 1 and 2.
Chapter 12: Not much to say here. The team gangs up on a couple ravens while Marcia gets the vast majority of the kills.
Chapter 13: Oscar and Kieran block the chokepoints while Marcia blocks another one, who also gets all the raven kills since she's the only one strong enough to. Anyone can kill the boss. Mia, Ilyana and Ike try to get some kills in the later turns while Volke and Sothe open all the chests. A good chapter to give them experience.
Chapter 14: Kieran and Oscar try to get the Laguz Lance on the west side, getting a few kills. Mia, Ilyana and Ike clear up a couple enemies on the north while Marcia charges to the boss area to kill the boss.
Chapter 15: Nothing to say here.
Chapter 16: Kieran carries Volke and Oscar carries Ike on turn 1. Titania gets shoved 3 tiles while Marcia gets shoved 1 tile and both kill a myrmidon and move the maximum number of tiles. Oscar hands Ike to Marcia and Kieran hands Volke to Titania. They both move as much as possible on turn 2. On turn 3, Titania drops Volke near the Full Guard room and Marcia drops Ike next to her. On turn 4, Titania gets the Full Guard with a Chest Key (Volke opened the door). Marcia kills the boss and Ike seizes. Ilyana, Oscar and Kieran try to get some kills from leftover enemies.
Chapter 17-1: Kieran west, Oscar east, and Marcia north. Not much to say here.
Chapter 17-2: Kieran-Oscar rescue-take-drop, Marcia arrives in 2 turns. Mia, Ike and Ilyana try to get some kills from enemies on the west.
Chapter 17-3: Good exp mine, not much to say here. Kieran, Oscar and Marcia go southeast while Mia and Ilyana and some others try to kill enemies at the starting point.
Chapter 17-4: One turn by Marcia.
Chapter 18: Reyson diamonds for Oscar, Kieran and Tanith whilst Boots Marcia charges to the ravens.
Chapter 19: Just a one turn.
Chapter 20: Mia and Ike try to get some kills south, while Kieran and Oscar charge to the Rescue staff place. Tanith and Marcia go straight to the boss area with Reyson's help, and arrive on turn 2. Ilyana and Calill kill enemies protecting the Smite house.
Chapter 21: You need a crapload of bonus experience for this chapter, because Ike needs to have 23 strength to clear it in 4 turns. Big reason why you shouldn't use Tormod, because he wastes it and Celerity isn't necessary for anyone. Marcia and Tanith carry Ike and Calill respectively to the boss area (Calill is the only one who can use siege tomes at this point). Ike can only kill the Generals blocking his path with 23 strength (he needs the Regal Sword). Marcia weakens the boss with a Laguz Lance and Calill gets the kill with a double Meteor with the help of Reyson.
Chapter 22: This is where Mia + Ilyana shines. In order to kill the boss without RNG abuse in 1 turn, you have to use 3 siege tomes in order to kill him. Mia gives Ilyana both a hit and offense boost to reliably kill the boss with Calill's help. You get Bolting right in this chapter.
Chapter 23: Marcia carries Ike to Petrine, where Ike needs to be tank to survive around a dozen attacks from enemies. Calill/Ilyana can also try to hit Petrine on turn 4 because Marcia can't one round her even with a forged Silver, but Mia's support with Ilyana makes her the more reliable option. In this playthrough I got Ike to 20 magic and had him use a Sonic Sword to clear the enemies.
Chapter 24: Not much to say here, because no one does anything really. Kieran and Oscar go north while Mia, Ilyana and Ike try to get kills from the west. Marcia arrives on turn 3.
Chapter 25: The main reason why I trained Mia and Ilyana together. Ilyana and Calill a bunch of kills with siege tomes alone in this chapter, to get enemies Ike and Marcia can't one-round. The hit and attack bonus from Mia greatly help Ilyana. Mia is also excellent at killing cats, which Ilyana and Calill have trouble doing. Mia gets the majority of the kills on the west side, while Tanith and Largo get the majority of the kills on the east side. Marcia carries Ike, gets Vigored, and drops him off so he can kill the boss with a Killing Edge on turn 1, who would otherwise be annoying. The chapter is cleared in 3 turns. I used Sonic Sword Ike to kill a few 2-range enemies here.
Chapter 27: Another chapter where Ilyana shines, because the only way to 3-turn is with a siege tome use. Ilyana is the most reliable choice because of her hit support with Mia. Anyway, Marcia and Ike charge to the boss area, while Kieran and Oscar try to get the Resolve scroll in 3 turns. Kieran has to be absurdly powerful (be able to kill Generals with a Tomahawk) to get the Resolve scroll in 3 turns. Runesword Ike was very important, though I think I could've used an alternate strategy.
Chapter 28: Ike gets dropped off by Marcia nearby the dragon guarding the boss on turn 1 with Reyson's help. Mist Rescues Reyson with the staff so he doesn't get killed. Marcia kills the boss on turn 2 and Ike kills the dragon guarding the boss with Resolve + Wrath. Ike seizes after Marcia kills a dragon blocking the way with the Laguz Lance on turn 3.
Endgame: Ike Resolve + Wrath rampage. That's all there is to it.

Top 5:

5. Mia (60 wins) (prev. Kieran with 44 wins)
4. Oscar (69 wins) (prev. Oscar with 67 wins)
2. Ike (77 wins) (prev. Ike with 77 wins AGAIN)
2. Titania (77 wins) (prev. Titania with 98 wins)
1. Marcia (90 wins) (prev. Marcia with 118 wins)

Wow, Ike and Titania are actually tied for the second position! That's pretty surprising. And Ike got the same number of kills as before...

Edited August 18, 2012 by Aeine

[charlie_]

This would be a lot more impressive on fixed mode, rather than rigging level ups.

[Chiki]

This would be a lot more impressive on fixed mode, rather than rigging level ups.

And impossible.

I only need to RNG abuse for a few more turn cuts, so it's equally impressive, but the TC overall is lower. I'd appreciate it if you didn't find reasons to complain.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Aeine

[charlie_]

It's just you've already done 1 playthrough on random mode, so it seems like a waste to redo the whole thing to shave maybe 3-5 turns off? And by that I meant finding the optimum TC for fixed, not getting the same TC as you did with random.

[Chiki]

It's just you've already done 1 playthrough on random mode, so it seems like a waste to redo the whole thing to shave maybe 3-5 turns off? And by that I meant finding the optimum TC for fixed, not getting the same TC as you did with random.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=32614

Fixed mode can be trivialized too, so I don't see your point.

[Espinosa]

Nice, looking forward to this. Does Ike's support with Lethe have any serious significance?

[charlie_]

That glitch essentially defeats the purpose of fixed mode playthroughs, so I'd obviously like to see one without any exploits. Fair enough shuffling bands around in the base to maximize growths, that's an intended feature.

One thing I'm curious about is the need for Boyd/Oscar's levels. Are you 4 turning chapter 7 or something?

[Chiki]

Nice, looking forward to this. Does Ike's support with Lethe have any serious significance?

Oh, not really. I just put that there because Lethe gets a lot of use with her high weight + shoves.

That glitch essentially defeats the purpose of fixed mode playthroughs, so I'd obviously like to see one without any exploits.

Uh, the game isn''t going to get any easier by giving Ike 20 magic and Oscar, Boyd and Titania strength/speed levels for Chapter 7. On the contrary it's going to get harder because I have to rush more.

One thing I'm curious about is the need for Boyd/Oscar's levels. Are you 4 turning chapter 7 or something?

I'll give it a shot, but it's necessary for 5-turning regardless.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Aeine

[Shin]

An LTC run is all well and good, but if you're rigging crits and getting Ike to 20 magic (his 20/20 average is 10 for all those curious), there isn't much point to it. If you really wanted to prove Titania hurts a team, you'd do without the abuse. You might as well rig perfect level ups for everyone for the entire game, that'd cut turns.

Plus, you're not free from bias, you've got something to prove, which may affect the way you use her. Still, best of luck.

[Chiki]

An LTC run is all well and good, but if you're rigging crits and getting Ike to 20 magic (his 20/20 average is 10 for all those curious), there isn't much point to it. If you really wanted to prove Titania hurts a team, you'd do without the abuse. You might as well rig perfect level ups for everyone for the entire game, that'd cut turns.

Plus, you're not free from bias, you've got something to prove, which may affect the way you use her. Still, best of luck.

Okay, so just because I get Ike to 20 magic, means that I can't prove whether Titania is necessary or not? Do you not realize how silly that sounds?

Secondly, if I recall correctly, I don't even need to rig any crits.

Bolded part: no it doesn't. The only time you need more than average stats is during Chapter 7, that's one good thing about the game design.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Aeine

[Shin]

You don't need to be so defensive, you're getting far too worked up about this.

Your conditions say you're abusing for Mist, Ike, Boyd, Oscar, Ilyana and even Titania herself. If it's only important for chapter 7, why do you need to do all this then? Clearly to save turns. If you only need average stats for the rest of the game, why not do it? You've already said you need 20 magic Ike and Super Ilyana, which is a direct contradiction of your "average stats".

[Chiki]

You don't need to be so defensive, you're getting far too worked up about this.

Your conditions say you're abusing for Mist, Ike, Boyd, Oscar, Ilyana and even Titania herself. If it's only important for chapter 7, why do you need to do all this then? Clearly to save turns. If you only need average stats for the rest of the game, why not do it? You've already said you need 20 magic Ike and Super Ilyana, which is a direct contradiction of your "average stats".

I'm not getting worked up, I just think your argument is silly.

Mist + Ike only get abused in the base, which has no bearing on Titania at all. Oscar and Boyd only need high strength and speed for Chapter 7, and that's only 2 levels for each.

My Super Ilyana plan is for a possible 2-turn clear of Chapter 28. In my previous playthrough, I did not RNG abuse her.

If you want to see my HM clear without 20 magic Ike and getting a couple of str/spd level ups on Boyd and Oscar, which seems to be a huge deal to you for some unfathomable reason, here it is: http://www.gamefaqs....20189-/59473344

Edited July 24, 2012 by Aeine

[Shin]

Then you should be able to do it without said conditions, since you don't need them. My main issue is with the general idea of rigging level ups. If you can do everything fairly, I have no complaints.

[Chiki]

Then you should be able to do it without said conditions, since you don't need them. My main issue is with the general idea of rigging level ups. If you can do everything fairly, I have no complaints.

Oh, I was the one who posted that playthrough, so I've done it before anyway. I'm just trying to see how much I can break this game.

[Shin]

Oh, I was the one who posted that playthrough, so I've done it before anyway. I'm just trying to see how much I can break this game.

I noticed, you did refer to it as yours .

If you're going to do it to break the game, go for it. You won't be able to prove Titania ruins midgame, since you're not doing it under normal circumstances. In experiments, you don't change too many variables.

[Chiki]

You won't be able to prove Titania ruins midgame, since you're not doing it under normal circumstances.

I, uh, don't understand. How does bexp abusing units in the base make me unable to prove that Titania ruins midgame?

[MacLovin]

I, uh, don't understand. How does bexp abusing units in the base make me unable to prove that Titania ruins midgame?

Because you'd have blessed units vs an average Titania.

Do this on Fixed mode, and you'll get more credibility.

[Espinosa]

Maybe because in a run with fixed growths, Oscar and Boyd aren't receiving a point in both strength and speed each level-up, and so the party has to rely on Titania for a little longer.

[Chiki]

Maybe because in a run with fixed growths, Oscar and Boyd aren't receiving a point in both strength and speed each level-up, and so the party has to rely on Titania for a little longer.

Nah, Titania gets ditched no matter what after Chapter 11 so Oscar and Kieran can promote by 17-2.

[aku chi]

In my investigation, Titania didn't need a single level-up for any LTC strategy before C9. Boyd needed only a Spd or Str proc for C7. Then again, my Ike needed quite a lot of Str and Spd (3 apiece) for C7's 5-turn clear, so perhaps your strategy differs to accomodate a weaker Ike.

Why are you using Ilyana again? She offers nothing unique. Why not replace her with Soren or Tormod and see how things go? I might suggest the same with Mia.

I don't believe it's possible to show that Rolf "actually hurts your midgame and lategame", let alone Titania. Do you mean to say one of your goals is to: "show that Titania does not help in midgame and lategame"? I don't think it will surprise many people that Titania is merely helpful, as opposed to essential, in chapters beyond 11.

[Hawk King]

Sorry, but I have to agree with everyone else. Goals 1 and 2 cant be achieved if youre playing on random growth mode.

I agree with your standpoint on Titania but you really should prove that on a fixed growth playthrough.

The Bexp point will be bogus since Ike, Mist, and Illyana will be using more of it in your playthrough than they normally would.

As far as getting the theoretical lowest turn count possible, abuse as much as you want. Just remember, this wont be a typical PT, and it certainly cant be used for a reference to prove anything.

[Chiki]

Okay, I'll blitz through fixed mode really quickly and get to Chapter 18, and hopefully prove that there isn't enough exp to go around and using Titania is therefore a waste.

Why are you using Ilyana again? She offers nothing unique. Why not replace her with Soren or Tormod and see how things go? I might suggest the same with Mia.

Just because she's easier than Soren to train and promote.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Aeine

[kirbymastah]

If you're going to manipulate level-ups so much and abuse it, you might as well just TAS this game...

Yet that still doesn't prove that Titania is "useless" past earlygame in an average playthrough. But I'm not going to talk anymore since you obviously never read posts and attack people anyways.

[MacLovin]

Okay, I'll blitz through fixed mode really quickly and get to Chapter 18, and hopefully prove that there isn't enough exp to go around and using Titania is therefore a waste.

Just because she's easier than Soren to train and promote.

Haha.

No.

Soren has speed, forges and Ike support.

As well as being fast.

Illyana is slow.

And besides, in drafts-Soren+Marcia is pretty OP

[Chiki]